Ep. 236 Francesco Ripaccioli (Canalicchio di Sopra) on Brunello di Montalcino

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast is brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey. Native Grape Odyssey is an educational project financed by the European Union to promote European wine in Canada, Japan, and Russia. Enjoy. It's from Europe. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast with me, Monte Walden. My guest today is Francesco Repachulli from the canalicchio di Sopura winery in Montalcino. Welcome. My pleasure to be here today. Okay. So just if everybody's clear where we are, Montalcino is a very big zone. It's a single commune of or or township and Francesco's family winery, Candenicchio, is in the northern part of Montalcino, the neighboring town is Juan Convento, and your vineyards in the canalicchio area for me is one of the best microtowars in Montalcino, and hopefully we can drill down with Franchesco, to find out what makes this particular zone very special, and what makes the brunello wines and La Rosimo Latino as well, the wines from this area, what makes them very, very distinct in the brunello firmament. So Francesco, it's really nice see you here today, on the podcast. So if you give us a little bit of, family history first, the Bachori family, when they arrived in Montacino, and how, they got hold of the estate, and then we can talk a little bit about the terroir. Sure. But I think that, to talk about the family history, we have to talk about the patienti family because my grandfather was the patienti, so the second generation is the repachol. So the original phone that was primo patienti was a big character in Montalcino. If you to the old generation. It was really, like, a character. Everybody used to know him. And, it's, it he he was one of the first pioneer of Bernaloff, the second World War, and he was one of the founders of the consorts of the advantage, you know. So we can say that the history of my family is, is one of the is kinda leaky the surprise is one of the historical brand and one historical producer since then since then the brunello start to become for the market. So I like to see the second beginning for Bernelo the Montech, you know, the beginning from the farmers. Okay. So the Brunelo doc was awarded in nineteen sixty six? Yes. And then the docG was awarded in nineteen eighty. Eighty five. Yeah. Yeah. So the nineteen sixties or Francesco is saying that was kind of really when the modern era of Bruno began and your family has been a part of that. Yeah. We've been since, we can say since the beginning, even if I always like to remember that there is, like, a that he invented with this wine. I used this word because, there is a motive, but the Beyond DeSanti family missed a great revolution to make this pure wine to understand a great value of the terawari montage, you know, sixty, seventy years before than my than my families. In the late, eighteenth century, late nineteenth century. Yes. Okay. So, canalicchio di Sopra. So what does what is it canalicchio? And what does di Sopra mean? So canalicchio, it's like a little channel. So it's it's a it's a sweet way to to call a channel. And, this oprah means above up. So it's the position on the hill, regarded to another Kanaleka, which is a disorder, which is a bit, fifty meters under our property. Okay. So there are two canalicchio wineries or name wineries with the name canalicchio, in Montecino, as he's saying. And so canalicchio di Sopra, which is canalicchio Apa. Yeah. And canalicchio di Sotto lower. Sure. Yeah. Okay. Correct. So, I mean, where are north of Montana? I mean, we underneath the the hill that the town is on, are we a few miles away from it? How exactly does it work at the canalicchio area? So the canalicchio, I like to, to imagine, the Monticino hill, like a cake, where, on top of the cake, you have, the village, and you have all the vineyards around the main hill of Montal Chino. We can say except for, another hill, which is the montessori hill, which is, a separate hill than the main hill of montalcino. So that's a hill under the hill of Montalcino, just to try and make things more complicated. Yeah. So the the canalicchio is the natural, is the natural part of the in the northeast side of of the mental know, hill. So it's a zone that stay, we can say from the top of the hill, five hundred meters, to three hundred meters. And, it it's where you have, this, the production of, and the vines since since the sixties. We have been one of the first to make wine in this, north side here. We are close to the village of Montalcino. So this is why we are using, like, traditional to scan the the brand, the name of the of the of the sub zone, like our brand since the beginning. Okay. So it's it's an idea of sub stones. We'll probably come on to later on. The winery, as he's saying, is named after a named place at top in the is it called a toponimo? Toponimo? Yes. So that's a name that you can find on, older maps. Sure. So it's not like anybody's invented this name. No. It's a historical name, how they used to call this, this sub zone of Montage. So Kanil Kaniliki was what was a channel for, was it a water drainage? Or Yeah. Yeah. I mean, Montana is on top of the hill and so sure there is some water that that fall down every. And it was worth her channeling channeling it his way. I thought he was speaking channeling. Yeah. So there's the water wouldn't flood. So it was it's actually, canalia channel was created so that it would it's canalic. It wouldn't damage the fields. Alright. So how many hectares have you got? So now we have a twenty hectares in total, which are divided in two different subs of production. The first one is canalicchio. It's also the it's where the state was founded by my grandfather. And, in nineteen eighty five, my grandfather started to work together with my father. So my father family used to have another state in the Montos over here. So we have another six sectors in that we planted, since nineteen sixty to two thousand and nine and something that we replanted, the last plane. So, basically, you've got vineyards in two of the most prestigious areas of Montachino, the canalicchio area and Montosli. Montosli is saying that, so you got the Hill of Montana behind you. Yeah. It's drainage channels where the name of Kearlico comes from underneath the town or below the town, and then this other little bump in the landscape, which is the Montossoe henry. Yes. Drive into Montacino from Wankonvento. If you're coming from the north, you were on your right hand side as you start climbing up to Montalcino, you'll see Kanaliki on your right, and you'll see a little bump as well in the landscape, and that is the Montalcino. Okay. So you've got twenty hectares. In terms of wine styling, are we looking at a blockbuster Bruno from you, a massive of Newark? We're looking at something a little bit more subtle. No. For sure, Kanaleke, Lisa, it's, producer famous to make, very elegant wines, but at the same time, we are also famous to never stay in the big fight between modern and traditional producers. So we prefer to be class if I'd like a classic producer that for me has a meaning not only related to the, let's say, to the recipe to make wine, to the ingredients, so the use of the bean barrels, I guess the I guess the barica, this kind of practice. But for me, it's something much more clear and linked to the to the soil. So we prefer we like to make a wine that is really the expression of the, place where we are. You say we are in the two of most prestigious zone of Montegino. I don't wanna say the same. I I I wanna say that we are in really in two place, which is which are clearly and easy to recognize when you're doing this one. If you work in purity on this zone, it's very clear to say this is coming from this is coming from Montoza. Yeah. Because this is the northern side of Montacino, and it is, it is cooler here. And you can really can pick that up in the wines of what he's saying, you know, I agree with what what he's saying. And you just don't get these kind of heavy baked wines in in where you are. You just get these sort of fresh, crimson y red, cherry red wines. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in terms of your you talked about the winemaker, and we said that's the fermentation, and then the aging. So you're saying also the the choice of wood that you use, bearing in mind that brindle lasts to spend twenty four months in wood. What is your choice of what are you looking at new barrels, young barrels? Or No. We it's, using only big barrels, because we think that it's the the the the kind of, sides that is better for the place. We are we we are in that zone that is extremely elegant. So we it's also a zone that, I like to say we do big wines, but not heavy wines. So we don't have the sometimes the ripeness to support the small food. This is why we prefer the big barrels. So you don't meaning to know? No. We use only two thousand five hundred liter and five thousand liters. Only LaVonian Oak barrows and, very neutral. So we select, Voo that is age. I mean, it's a season at least five years before we use it, the wood to make the barrel and it's, the food is not fundamental in, in, in my wines. It's a kneading for the wine. It's not an ingredient. That's the light difference between how we we think about, our wine. So I need, and I and I try to find all the things that, they are able to underline the characteristic of the place where where I am not to cover. Even if sometimes a nice cover, but I don't I'm not interested in this kind of wines. So in terms of ageability, we're talking about a slightly cooler area here, north of the town. Does that affect the ageability of your Bruno? I think, it affects eligibility because, this, I don't wanna talk about the temperature because, temperature high temperature. We have in the north. They're having the south. We have everywhere. Now that's something also related to the climate change. But the one of the things that is very distinctive in the north side of Montal Chino, there are two things. They're very connected. The first one is the big influence of the wind. We have this wind. We have two winds that are very similar, tramontan, and they really try, especially in September, the grapes, I mean, to make, more concentrated but without losing the acidity. Because, what we have is a biggest solution between day nineteen and temperature. This is something that helps during the day to to ride the grapes for the maturation, but keeps the city with this very strong difference in temperature in the night. So I think this is one of the characteristic instead of talking about the the the calls on, it's it's it's very the the biggest exclusion between day and night. So for you, that is is that day and night temperature differential that is is a key factor in the style. For me, yeah. So it's something that I'm feeling that, it it it maintain, the freshness while you have the opulence because we we we have to remember the wine from the north that they are peeling on, mainly in a clay soil. And the clay soil gives us sometimes the volume to the wines. They're very voluptuous. Why? They're how do we say in Tuscale? They are there where there is cheat channels. So, like, in fact, wine, that is much more clear when it is the vineyard in Canada, let's say, in the Casa where we have the seller today. Okay. So the Casa the base where the seller is. I mean, in terms of markets, what are your what what is happening in the market with regard to Bruno? Obviously, it's a it's boom continues and the demand for Bruno seems to be growing rather than diminishing. How are you coping with that? It's a good for Montecino. It's a moment. Montecino has been always oriented in an international market. United States has been always the first market for Bernelo, and we are not an exception. We have been we have started to work in the United States since in nineteen seventy nine. And we we are still with the same important. Probably that we we are forty years this year with them. So it's it's a sign that, Bruno is very well received around the world. But, yeah, it's a good moment. There is not new challenge for new word, but, some of the very historical markets, including UK UK, it's, it's something that, it's old for Moncalcino, but it's relatively young for, in terms of numbers. The biggest growing in the, or in the historical markets in the last few years is in UK for us. You said you had a little vineyard on Montosedly. Just tell us a bit about the vineyard. Does it have a name and how big is Montosedly? Is it is it like five hundred hectares of vines or is it a small little help? No. Montosedly is a very small, and it's a only one hill where, it's alright to talk, like, like in Piedmont style, like a break. No. Because if you look, yeah, if you look, on the montessori, you really have the story, and you really have the place of the hill where, there are venues. The west side is covered by forest because it's a it's a very it's a steep hill, the montessori hill. While all the other Venus around Montalgino are in a very sweet hill. Montalgina's on the top, but then you need to to drive twenty kilometers to arrive on the flat. Not So everything is so sweet. Montos is a bit different. There, we have six actors. We can say there are, maybe on the hill of Montos, it's something like, six sectors of vineyards. So we have a good amount. In total, so you've got ten percent of that. Having a small, six batteries is small, but related to Montosur, it's not, it's not, so small. And, Montosur and canalicchio, there are, like, five hundred meters. So they are in front. No. Divini. But they are completely different, and they are two very distinctive soil. Since I, me and my brother, so the new generation we entered in the state, we like to went back to the region. So when my grandfather used to make a wine, olive from Kanicio, and father only from Montosil. I'm still thinking that the blend is working very well. So my brunello has been made for fifty year for, I mean, from nineteen eighty five when my grandfather and my father started to work together, like, blending the two zone of production. But in two thousand seven, when me and my brother, we take over the state, we decide to work on a project of a single vineyard. And this project will see the light the first time next year with the fifteen Bernelo from Vineakazakh, a hundred percent from Montosry. And in eighteen, we will release a wine with, the name of Monto linda label. So will be a very, I mean, return to the past, but also that's, a look to the to the future for sure of Montecino. So you you will be one of the few, very few wineries of Montecino that we'll be able to put or can quite legitimately put on your front label, the name of the, what the French would call a clue, a named site on your label. So the canalicchio, on on Yeah. They were the main one, and then the montousley, from the smaller sized vineyards that you have there. So that's very kind of burgundian. I mean, your wine style is very burgundian, but that's kind of quite a bugundian way of going about things. It's a compliment for me. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's a great compliment. I'm a very big fan of this, this kind of wine. And I'm very big fan of a very specific wine. You mean, as I'm with a place to it. Sure. That's a sense of place. It's the, I think, is the most intimate concept of terroir. I think that, there is a sense in the blend. So we will continue to make the blend because the house style can claim also binding different things. They are beautiful and they can work very well together. But, a great territory like Montalcino, it needs some, like, a single video production. It's not only middle. A lot of producer than doing this direction. A lot of this producer they made already in the past. I'm not the first. I'm I would not be the last one to do this, this project, but it's something that I really trust for the for the future of my of my state. So you already have some example in the past of our one specifically for the reserve reduction that we decide to make, like, the last reserve at thirteen is a hundred percent from Montosry. The ten was a hundred percent from Canada. So we have some wines. Even if we did have the clear on the label, they are from them. That's part of the project, and now the you would see the light with something that would be very clear in terms of the consumer. Before we go, just read a couple of my, notes that I've actually found on your wine, what I, of, for my tasting of your wines over the years. And if you do get the chance. I hope you do to taste the wines are kind of an equally softener. You can say that I'm wrong or or maybe you're right, but what I like about them is they have a very, very, very distinct internal structure in terms of, the way fruit is expressed and how they sit or how the fruit, sorry, sits with with the tannins and the shape of the tannins. You're gonna give you a multiple choice question. They're either big round tannins or slim, elegant tannins. And, you know, obviously, I'm leading you to the conclusion that it's the latter that you're gonna find in these wines, and that really does show the influence of of the of this, Northern Montagino terroir specifically where they're kinda nikyo. And if you try the Montosadie, you'll have slightly different shape patterns there as just because of that particular little bit of of Montecino's topography. Maybe we look forward to, maybe in ten years' time, you do a vertical tasting of, your current site, site specific wines, and the wines that are in, of course, that are that are that you're gonna put into the market, in the future, And, I kind of think this is, as you said, a way forward also from Montecino, not to change every single wine into a terrace specific wine, because that's not possible or desirable, but to have these little these little snapshots, if you like, of of bits of terroir, will that everybody understand Montocino a lot better. There isn't one one Bruno. There are there are dozens and dozens and dozens in terms of style. Yeah. I think, that, multocino is a very interesting place. And the difference between north to out east west or the single subs on high to high to high. Yeah. There are people that wanna experience. They wanna know. It's not matter of what's the best or what's the worst or what's the classification. That's not the problem. It's to make a place much more interest for the consumer and for the visitors and to understand much better what what are the character character is every single difference on of of of production in the territory, which is a very big. We can say even if there's much of the producers being always to build and to to to plan winners in the best place. So I think it's big, big, challenger, and it's a natural movement for Montalcino, which has a long, long history, but also a regent history in terms of the market situation. So it's a new it's a new step, will be very nice how it will be developed by the the the producer that has much more attention on this, on this step. I agree. Thanks very much, friend. From the canalicchio desopro winery in Montancino. Thanks for coming on to the podcast. See you in Montancino. Thank you. I'm waiting for your whenever you want. Great. Thanks. Bye. 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