Ep. 555 Hayo Loacker | Monty Waldin

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Wallin. My guest today is Hayo Lawaca from the Lawaca winery. In whereabouts? Whereabouts? Whereabouts are you? Right. Right now, I'm I'm in Bonzano, in Castro. Okay. And, you could also be in Montalcino. Okay. So just tell us about the company, starting maybe in the north and then, with, Bruno second. A multichannel second. Okay. That's a quick overview because the story would be very long. We start my father started in seventy nine, bought a little property here in the north right in the middle of the Alps, and three little hectares. For a long time, yeah, we we we re we stayed at that that lay level. Then in the nineties, we started investing still in between the north and afterwards, even in Tuscany. Ninety six we bought a hundred Hector Big property next to Montalcino, Cortepavone, and three years later, we bought a lot of property down to Mirima, which is called nowadays, Valifalco. So we are producing wines on three territories, Suttibol, Montagino, and Marima. And we're working around about fifty hectares of vineyards today. Okay. So let's start in there. Let's start with the Suttibol. How big is the vineyard there Yeah. The the vine would lower curve, where we call it, which would be the moderate state of the three wine estates. We are we're working today on seven hectares of vineyards mostly around the hill of Santa Justina, which is quite close to the the famous hill of Santa Madalina. Both hills are very close to the bigger town, the the biggest alpine town, Burzano. We have a little small vineyards in the, in the Valades Arco, where we are producing some Gurris demeanor and Pinu Gridio. Our main direction here in South Carolina and Santa Matlena, which is a blend of mostly Fernatch or Skiava, the tenant name, and a little bit of Flagrine. Still. The vines are very old from the, late fifty early sixties, so quite a huge talks of of of of our vine mine rules. So it it gives, it gives always the wines that are a real, yeah, authentic touch of our, a top turner's variety we have here. Furthermore, we are producing a little bit of, sauvignon, charter in the whites, and, some merlot and some cap as well. I'm gonna ask you, as we don't often have a guest from Alto Adi Jay, can you give us some suggestions for food and wine pairings with those autochtenous grape varieties that you mentioned? Sure. The the the three octopus varieties we have which would be the Gurz Amina, for the whites, and the La Gryne and the Fernach or Skyaba for the reds are mostly locally, yeah, to to combineable to local food, especially the the Fernach which is a very, easy drinking lighter kind of red wine. Even even in in the in the modern style, we can we can reach thicker and, more full butter. Wines. So you you would combine it to our local food, which would be the knudel kind of dumplings we make here, especially in South Bureau made with specs We've we've, sorry, with spec. And even the the simple the simple spec with Brad is perfect, to to the fanach. The grocery meter is, as you might know, as a very aromatic. So it's perfect for, for, for an appetizer or for even for, Indian, Indian or exotic kitchen. And the airline is nowadays made much different as ten years of ten years ago. And now it's it's a full bodied, mostly in small barrel aged, red wine. So combinable, perfect, to to game, which, we find a lot here in in our region, game like deer or or something else. Yeah. This is more or less the wines we make, especially the other wines, yeah, they are renowned in every part of the world. And in in terms of your markets for your wines from the north, is it we always have this impression that because it's, the region is so beautiful and obviously touristy. Is most of your sales locally, or are you selling those wines internationally as well? Good questions. The the the the white wines is they are very, very well sold in in whole of Italy. The, I do apologize. White wines have a very good market in in every in every edge of Italy because of their uniqueness, a lot of freshness, very, aromatic. There were rats have a another market may maybe not that much in in Italy, but then the the southern part of the, German peaking countries like Bavaria, Austra, even in Switzerland, they they appreciate that kind of taste, that kind of wine. So it's it's a good market for for those wines. The La Gryne, it's it's so special, so, individual. So, we have a market in Australia, if you want. We have a small market in the US, but mostly obviously sold here in the region because the region very touristic, and, tourism is a very important force for, for sale for these kinds of wine. Okay. The next question is terrain for the vineyards. Are you on very steep vineyards or is is it easy farming? What is the terrain like? Yeah. The the terrain is concerning the terrain next to Bosano is an old Merenic terrain. It's was formed ten to twenty thousand years ago from the last glacier time. So it's moronic would would would mean a lot of sand. It's it's it's mostly a sand lining soil, but, on a, yeah, medium to very high CP position. So imagine that we have to manage all the vineyards, especially in those steeper areas on terraces because the erosion would be too too big. The erosion problem would be too big. So eighty eighty five percent of the vineyards are all on terraces. Terrain is Sandy Limi, as I said. So, it has to be irrigated. Very special thing, for Alta. Imagine that Bozano is one of the hottest town very often and in Italy during summertime, even if we are in the north of Italy, thirty six, thirty eight, forty degrees, in July, August is very common. So without irrigation and, our rainfall may be missing for a week or ten days, we have absolutely, definitely to to irrigate very on a on a quality level, obviously, but the the kind of soil, that kind of terrain and the kind of microclimate, around Burzano, gives us, or forces us to irrigate, giving quality to the wine. So should we switch now to Montecino? Yeah. Why not? Little story, Montecino? Okay. Corte Pajona was born in ninety six as my father wanted to, retire in Tuscany. And he was looking for a small property. I found it, but it was a little bit bigger, than he he was looking for. Right, in front of Montecino. The one who, never or ever comes to Montecino's seat on its its entire entire expansion, right, from the Fortesa. Very, beautifully, a very beautiful, located. At that time, only four hectares, and we planted new vineyards. And today, we have nineteen hectares of vineyards in Corte Pavona. Why why am I part of this changed his mind? I guess, because, I was right in at that time, at the end of of my university studies in Dejon in Burgundy, and, was ready to take over or to reinvent me in, in a new week's experience in down to Tuscany, or it was a great challenge at that time, obviously, for me, And so we decided to gather to invest in a first in a first period in the vineyards, new vineyards, and second period new sellers, third period in new markets because we had to sell the year end. The huge amount, new new wines, new, new bubbles. Remember that, ninety two years, just three years later, we added twenty two hectares in the Marima. So, yeah, we we grew from four to forty hectares in in about five to six years. Yeah. In two thousand ten, my father, left for Altra where he started his own small project, which he, in the meanwhile, he finished already. He came back last year Kuripovone. From two thousand ten, I took over the whole properties and and started a new new grade project, which I call it, the seven dynamic Renewaloo crew, which would be femme for for another two or three hours because it's a very, very deep project I started. Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about that? I mean, we know that you'll have a very sustainability for you is very important and for your family is very important. You have a unique way of approaching the organic and biodynamic, way of working. Can you just explain how you work and how you treat your vines and what makes it special. What what what I what I what I what I didn't tell that in in seventy nine, the first year we started my father as one of the first user worldwide decided to, convert the the the wine, the winery to, at that time, organic and later in the nine eight eighties to biodynamic agriculture. So we have more than forty, forty years of experience in this area. Obviously, we do not we do not work in our in an organic way just for just for business, but is it's it's far away, far deeper than, doing only business. It's it's part of our family, of our philosophy, and and of our life. So every decision we try to find and try to make is always, leaded by this holistic approach to what we try to to do. And organic or biodynamic are a constant are a constant. How can I say constantly giving us the the background and to our to our thinking and to our working? Technically, I I I wouldn't I wouldn't really do do it differently than, the most of, other biodynamic producers, but we do from the different pepper rates, the seven different peppers. We do all of them. We do the compost. We do, the five hundred and the five hundred one preparations. On all our properties. The the way of winemaking is obviously very influenced by, these kind of, approaches. So the the wines itself, are always made only by the forces coming from the vineyards. Yeah. I don't know how how deep I should go in in this particular argument. But you're what's interesting about you and your family's approach is you always had a quite an individual way of working in a, in a, in a thinking, and that certainly comes through in the wines. And, obviously, in Montecino, I'm sure when you got there, it wasn't particularly organic, shall we say. And now it's there's a lot of estates that are organic or or by dynamic. I mean, do you see that as a good thing that that sort of change in Montecino, the region as a whole? Or are you just very still just focused on on what you and your family are doing? No. Definitely. I'm very happy about the the evolution in Montecino. I definitely share and, yeah, every, every single, a new, organic or biodynamic production because it's yeah, it's the way our modern award has to think to give a contribution to the, the whole development. And I remember ninety six when we started there were just one small or, other organic producer who started, a year earlier than than us was salicuti. And nowadays, we have, I guess, fifty percent, more than fifty percent of organic or biodynamic cruises. No. It's it's it's time, and it is good to see that Montachino such a great terror has understood the, yeah, this very important step to do. And the motivation, the purpose, from why they decided it should be second. Imagine imagine hundred percent multachino or organic or biodynamic, it would be could would be great. So, we we could everybody can could buy the time, because it's always a problem of generation. By the time, we could always speak at a certain, level the same language. Great. I just I'm happy with that. Got a question about the markets. What are your main markets for your Tuscan wines? Yeah. Main markets are North American market from Mexico Europe, US, and Canada, then, Central Europe. The Scandinavian part is very great and Italy itself, obviously Italy with our two main regions, which are hydro Adigia and Tuscany, as a main main focus. Obviously, as a Pronela producer, you have a worldwide market, we are we are selling to Japan, China, Australia, Peru, Brazil, but there are smaller market. Main focus is North America, Central, Europe, Scandinavia and Italy at the moment. Still looking for, a new UK importer because we lost our old, couple. Yeah. Yeah. I I don't think Brexit has helped to be honest. So that the UK market may be a little bit tricky for a while. Final question, do you and your family have any more plans for more acquisitions of vineyards, or are you happy with the vineyards you have at the moment? No. There are definitely no plans to for more acquisition. We are right now in empowering our marketing to give the the right value to our product because we have several projects going on. As I said, the the the Brella crew project, a another project, which is called timeless, which is a I play a game with in the cellar, only only yeasts, long, long even even, always adding new ease. And, yeah, giving value to what we we are doing since a long time, but also giving value to what to all the new projects we have. So focusing on a best marketing to get out more for what we are already producing. Okay. Another question. I mean, when you're in the market, when you present your wines, do you just talk about the vinification and the family history, or do you also talk about your environmental love for environmental coherence, shall we say? Cause your family's always been very environmentally, aware and ahead of the game. How do what's your approach in the market? Your marketing approach? Very, very, very good question. I like this because it's a little bit tricky. You might understand that we we are on the market now for maybe nearly forty two years, and we experienced all kind of trends, all kind of problems, critics, and we had we had in our history, up and downs, different strategies. Right now, we we are not anymore only focusing on, our eye on environmental approach because we think it's so deeply already part of our, but then one would say the the French one, French guy, of our, package. So we are focusing and trying to to give more value at the the contents we we are producing and more on the quality we are really producing the different kind of quality. And who wants, more insight knowledge about our biodynamic approach. It's we are always open to to, yeah, to give our knowledge to different persons who wants to know it, but it's not not our main focus right now. Maybe also because the fifty percent of Montecina Cruisers are organic, so you have to deliver something else. But, our, our range of contents is so huge. So just with you, in twenty minutes, I can tell you just Yeah. So so little. So it's hard for us. Got another another little question because your way of, you know, you don't really make a lot of noise about your environmental initiatives, but your approach is is unique to the organic and biodynamic way of doing things. Could you just explain a little bit about about how you see that and why is it important that you do it your own way? You don't follow, say, Rudolphsteiner's complete recipe for biodynamics. You've got a little few things that you you make completely unique to your family. We are we are following Rudolph steiner's ideas. Definitely, what we do for our individual thing is we are adding our homeopathy, knowledge which is a special thing of my father. He's very inside. Maybe some somebody knows that we we had a homeopathic producing enterprise. We we sold it two years ago, very huge thing, but the knowledge, we still bring it to our to our activities, could be in the vineyards, could be in the cellar, or still still still a little a little flack on, in my, in my pocket. Homeopathy is is a very huge force, very huge energy if you handle it in the right way. And if you combine it to other forces, okay, that's very important, what we understood. And then the last thirty years, it's an It's a it's a additional help to empower the vines in or the plants or even humans that should always combine to something, yeah, something else which is would be the same way natural, but helps you. That's right. So the unique way would be could you tell you the little story of the right now? It's it's very Leonotwe. I can't remember the name in in in English. The problem of the. There are ear ear worms, I guess, or something of worms, they're kind of worms. Right now they're coming out. It's always beginning of the the new vintage. They are they are eating the little buds on the vines. So you you're gonna lose the whole crop because as you know, on the on the first leaves, you have your grapes on. The the vine wouldn't die, but because the second butt would restart and give you give you the beliefs, but eighty or ninety percent less crop, less scrapes. So what what we're doing right now, we are spraying our nozote preparation, homeopathic preparation, which we did, two or three years ago, which which we made two or three years ago, is a preparation out of these burned earworms and homeopathically and diluted. So it gives back the information to the vineyards to automatically react to this insect to this problem. So this is kind of, of approach we use. You can you can see some some, some videos on our website where we explain it a little bit closer. Yeah. So, I mean, do your do your neighbors? But, I mean, as you know better than anybody, probably when you arrived in Montecino, the idea of organic and biodynamic was just not spoken about, and now round about fifty percent or forty percent of the estates there are organic with some biodynamic ones as well. Are you do you feel more accepted now with with your environmentally cautious way of working, or do you just not worry about what anybody says. You just get on with what you and your family like doing best, and that's what you care about. What's your what's your take? If if I well understand you on a certification level, we are the same as our colleagues. They are organic certified or biodynamic certified. Okay. You you you follow certain rules, and you have respect them. On a pragmatic or practical, sense, a way of thinking, we are constantly adding and new or trying to add new approaches because Urto steiner were living ninety in the nine, nineteen twenties and for sure there is there is space for improving or developing new approaches, and we are constantly adding a new thing. And if this would differentiate us from our colleagues up to you, to decide, but no, we are not we are not, like, the winery which is only following, yeah, some recipes, from the organic or biodynamic control organism. No. Definitely not. Very often we have to discuss our newer approach to our with our, certification, organism, but, no, it's it should be something of, violent and in constant evolution. So I don't know if if if I exactly answer your question. Yeah. Yeah. That was good. I mean, your family's always had a very pragmatic way of of working and finding what makes you happy and what makes your vineyards happy, and you're always thinking about trying things. And sometimes in the organic or biodynamic arena, there's a people who are worried about doing that. They want to stick to the same old formulas. So it's nice to hear that you and your family are being innovative and and, you know, and looking towards the future with with an open mind, and that's very, very important. So, Kyle, I wanna say thanks very much to you for coming in today, just speaking for speaking with us, telling us about your family, very interesting that you've got vineyards in two completely different parts of Italy, and you have a bespoke way of farming all of those plots in those different areas. And, and that's why, your vines have got a very strong sense of individuality. Thank you so much. And day, stay safe, and best wishes to your family. Thank you. I hope to see you next time to Corte Pabone. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pot casts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com, any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.