Ep. 243 Sara Norell (Systembolaget AB) on the Swedish alcohol monopoly system and consumer trends

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. This podcast is brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey. Native Grape Odyssey is an educational project financed by the European Union to promote European wine in Canada, Japan, and Russia. Enjoy. It's from Europe. Hello. This is the Italian White podcast. My name is Monte Gordon. My guest today is Sarah Norell, who is the director of the augment purchasing at the Swedish monopoly. Do you have, like, a business card that's the size of a football pitch with a top of the road? I do think it's so beautiful. You don't have a lot of a crane to carry it around with you here. They have rooms around my air place. My role is to make sure that all the people in my organization, I think it's fun to work, get sustainable on it. So See, we don't often think about that at monopolies, you know, some dreary sort of communist style purchase, you know, gray people, dark buildings, fortunate people, they they really like what they are doing. And, it's also about the enjoyment of wine, but Stem Lloyd is also about taking care of of the backside of it. Okay. We don't drink too much, and we don't we're not driven by cell We are only driven by by doing good service and a great assortment. So we'll get on to that in terms of, your sustainability and organic initiative. So just give us a bit about your personal background. Were you born into wine? No. Not really. I'm a farm. A daughter and, my mother was a teacher, but I very early on, started to work in the Holtrum restaurant business. So that's where I did my first career. So when you say early on, how old were you? I think the first time I was, like, sixteen or something. And High heels. And you know? So high heels. So you high heels on a farm that must have been a good time. No. No. It's a restaurant. Did you get what did you have? It was arable land, or did you have cows and things like that? Yeah. It was both. My scar is small farm, but very very, very nice to coming back to today and have a You look like a country woman. I have to say. I do. You do. You do. You do. That's not I hope that's not an objective comment. I get crucified, but you do. You look like your country kinda country oriented. Yeah. Okay. Your farmer's daughter, obviously good in school, a bright cookie. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. A little shrug of the shoulders there. Yeah. I had too much on my plates, so I I I did a lot of things outside school as well. Go on. Now but they'll ask, I don't mind. No. What I thought first was that I was going to be a a musician. So I What kind of music? Oh, it puts all kinds of boots, but a lot of classics because I played the flute and I, well, played some piano and guitar. But in the I ended up being a wine business. You self taught that. No. No. That was more more. Were you a good be a good pupil? Were you passionate? I think I did very well, actually. Until I was like in my teens. Did you and then why? You went off the rails of it, did you? No. Then I I want to do something else. Okay. So I I, yeah, I went into the help to a restaurant business, and the wine really, really caught me. So I I became a similar. What was the attraction though, wine? I think it's so diverse and it's not only what it tastes. It's the whole culture. It's the people, and it's, being able to, to fly around the world and to its enjoyment. Yes. And it's also obviously, you got over you got huge responsibility on your shoulders. So just tell us why is there a monopoly in your country? It's of political reasons. I'll call political reasons. It's, about not drinking too much, and the, obviously, the sustainable life takes care of having a fantastic assortment, but also limited opening hours. And for example, when you go into our stores, you pick out the wines you would like to have for the beers saw the or the spirits. And when it came to cashier, that's a little trolley saying, have you changed your mind? Please, if you've changed your mind, you can put the bottles or the packages you don't want any longer and proceed to cashier. Probably that's no other retail in the world will do that. But why would they why why would they do that? Just think No. It's just because we don't think people should drink too much. Yeah. And you is you're not trying to hard sell either? No. We have no buy, three pay for two, or anything. Do you never a job, you never got a job on a British supermarket? No. I don't think I. You might be cleaning the bins maybe. But I would really have to change the change, mine. Okay. So I would do it. Obviously, I'm a big fan of organics as you've already known. You have set targets or you did set targets ambitious ones, and within about four and a half minutes. Yes. You hit your target. Can you give us some background on that now? Yeah. We but I think it's about system bloggit and our owners want to do good. We want to be part of moving the trade forward And obviously, if you're a big player, you have a big responsibility. So we said that ten percent, twenty twenty, ten percent of everything of volume wise we are selling R2B again. And we and that target was introduced when that was in that's about eight years ago. And it you you fulfilled that target in about four and a half minutes, didn't you? No. Not really, but, over the like two years ago. So how did you feel about that? Did you feel that you'd done the appreciated organics or the consumer demand for it? Or I think what was the success for that is that with that, no, we wanna be a driver behind good organic wines. And at that time, there were good organic wines, but not only, and they were not certified. So if it's not certified, if it's hard for us to put organic on the shelf. So I think we we drove it a little bit before the consumer, but when the consumer were ready, there were organic products on our shelves. So if Teguina, we are doing twenty two percent. Really? All sales. Of all vines sold at system log in. So on the list, so twenty Twenty two. No. Volume wise. Right. K. So every fifth more than every fifth bottle lists in our organic book. And how how does that translate in terms of value or profit and are they more profitable? We we don't think about profit in that way, but they are a little bit more premium than, the average other categories. And what about the demographics of that buy those kind of wines? Is it mainly females? Is it men? Is it just anybody who just people pick up the labor though? It doesn't look like a label. I think it's it's anyone but it's more the younger generation who thinks it's more important. It's ladies less men, thinking it's important. But you have to do a bit of nudging. So if you talk about men drinking beer, we introduced together with our suppliers, we introduced quite some a few or organic beers that from the beginning, they it was like, oh, it's organic. It's bad. Yeah. But now it's it's there, and it's their old brand they bought before, and now it's suddenly organic, so they buy it anyway. I think great that you're supporting that and also the idea of certification. Now, for me, that's such a big thing. People say, oh, why do you need to be certified? And you do, is having a third party come and look over what you're doing and take tests and all the rest. I I really, really believe in it, and it's not perfect, but it's the best system that we have. It's our system. And if you talk about natural wine, also being a a big trend, especially among ammonia and summer years, etcetera. And I think that's a good idea with a with a natural wine. So natural that it can be, but it's also very difficult because of what is a natural one. Yeah. That's one of the issues. It's not. A lot of them are not necessarily certified. No. There are none of them. They could be organic, of course. Yeah. Well, there's some kind of natural and they are certified, but you can't certify why natural. Yeah. Exactly. No. But they so they have got organic grapes, basically. Yeah. But, no, it is a bit of a minefield. Yeah. Here it is. And I think they are trying to take steps to have some kind of third party or some of the organizations I can attend to, for example, are actually trying to tighten that up because it is a bit world west. Yeah. And we're also trying to find ways of promoting other parts of sustainability because organic maybe is not the best because there are. Well, in terms of energy use and packaging, and Yeah. And how many times do one water spray with, etcetera? So it's, they spray with too much copper like they have had to do this here. Yep. It's difficult as well. So we we try to see Cam, and we discuss that with the monopoly around to LCBO. If we can do something together, we'll see. I know the LCBO in Canada you just mentioned they actually analyze every wine that comes in. Do you do that as well? Yes. We do, but we don't analyze as much as they do. They are pretty hardcore. They are hardcore, and they analyze I think we do. We have our own laboratory as well, and we do very much the same analysis. But what they do and we don't for all the wines is analyzing pesticides for the organics, and we only do that spot checking. Yeah. I mean, what happens is quite an interesting, segway, but Canada, for example, can find a pesticide in in a vineyard that has been organic for twenty years. And that spray was spray is no longer manufactured, was banned, I don't know, twenty, thirty years ago. And still there's residues up. So, obviously, the the producer hasn't been spraying them. No. But it just shows how persistent these residues are. And it also shows how difficult it is really to know, to when you say pesticide free or it's it's very hard to make those kind of things. Because you have a neighbor or or whatever. But what we've seen, when we started to do those, pest science analysis that were much more residuals in both conventional and the organic wines, even though very, very low on the organic wines. But now it's it's it's better. So it's moving in the right direction. Okay. So one about what is the future for the monopoly? Do you think? Where where are the trends going? Not for you or you look at those? You know? No. No. No. No. No. But that's interesting because if we wanna stay relevant for the consumers, and that's obviously very important if we wanna we need to like to to stay in market, so to say. And ten years ago, we had an opinion index, what we are following, saying that sixty six percent of the suites want to go to sustainable art instead of going to a grocery stores shopping there. Well, so wants to support the monopoly. So today, it's seventy seven percent. So it's increased by ten percent. Yeah. It isn't that's gonna odd the idea that you'd support a government organization because that's really what it was. It's not stranger, but you we really need to be good. Yeah. So the if we weren't good, we wouldn't be supported. Is that to do with your sort of social democratic kind of leanings? I mean, he's generally, maybe maybe not in the last few years, but it's kind of a murder. I think that a lot of people, they they, think it's just of solidarity to do it because it's if I don't drink too much. There are others drinking too much, harming their kids when they come home and have too much for dinner. Do you think they're sort of national psyche's influence by the fact that you are in a environmentally kind of slightly extreme area and that you're very sensitive to changes in the environment, and maybe what's coming in terms of global warming. And I'm proud of being part of that in this subject, but I'm actually because we need to move. Mhmm. The climate is, big issue and probably the most important issue we have to take to deal with. Yep. So you can do it yourself in your home, but you can also be part of a system, luggage that wants to make a difference. What is Sweden like in terms of equality in terms of employment for women, men, you know, minorities? I don't know. Is is there they have like quotes? Is it is it seems pretty relaxed, or is that not the case? No. Well, we bought a million by relaxed. I I think we, tightening system along it. We are more or less fifty fifty from from the board of directors down to the stores and the managers and everything. Are you be on the board of directors one day. No. I don't know. I don't Would you like to be? Yeah. Well, it's it's it's what I I'm driven by doing something from a of a purpose. So, of course, if the stimuli is still there, I could I would be happy, like, I'm today being able to be part of of changing something. No. I'm sure in your family, you know, if you have family and you do, you know, when you go shopping, of course, it's not just you that does. I'm sure your husband does fifty percent of the shopping, and you do fifty percent of the shopping, but what do you like when you go into a non, system bottling out store, and you have to buy something, like, I don't know, a tin of beans or a shirt, or do you do you do you come in with your professional hat on or with your personal hat on? You have your budget? I tend to be privileged in being able to buy when I go into a grocery store, what I like, and I do organic every every category. Really? Mhmm. I do. Okay. So a big fan. Mhmm. So, Eril, thanks very much for coming in today. Thank you. It's been really fascinating getting a little window in to the dusty corridors of the So you're not dusty. Okay. The incredibly clean. Please do. Please come stop your mama. Let's show you. Sorry. Over the sweetest alcohol, monopoly. So we've shot we have even need to shine a light. It's so internally bright. We don't need to do that. Thanks very much, Kevin. It's been Thank you so much. Thank you so much. This podcast has been brought to you by Native Grape Odyssey, discovering the true essence of high quality wine from Europe. Find out more on native grape Odyssey dot e u. Enjoy. It's from Europe. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.