Ep. 2182 Jessica Dupuy interviews Jim Clarke | TexSom 2024

I have a master's degree in music composition. Okay. And, I came to New York in two thousand one after living in Europe for several years. And when you have a performing arts degree and you live in New York City, you do like the actors do, and you work in restaurants. Yeah. And I was blessed to work for a restaurant group that was really rough to work for, but they had great wine training program. So I got interested in wine, and the kind of music I was doing, which I have on card classical music, maybe. Most of my my peers went on to become professors That's kind of the normal career route, and I wasn't interested in that. So wine became a new alternative for me, and I started studying. Tally y'all, I'm Jessica Duppui, guest host for a special Texom series covering the twenty twenty four Texom wine conference from Dallas, Texas. Join me in the heart of the Lone Star State as we delve into the experiences and insights of key speakers and attendees, exploring career paths, challenges, and the latest trends in the wine industry. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your podcasts. Alright. Well, welcome Jim Clark to Italian wine podcast cast. I'm so glad you were able to take a few minutes to visit with me. Welcome to Tex Tom. Thank you. Always glad to be back here in Dallas in the heat of August. And, yeah, how many people say that, but except for TexOM. You've gotta have bad draw, and then it makes it worth Yeah. Exactly. Right? You know, it's so funny. I feel like I've known you for many, many years. And as I've said with most of the people I've interviewed, it's it's because of TexOM. So I love that it's this place or this event that's brought so many people together for so long. But before we get into that, maybe you could tell us a little bit about who you are and kinda your journey into the wine industry because it's it's been circuitous. Right? Yeah. So I have a master's degree in music composition. Okay. And, I came to New York in two thousand one after living in Europe for several years. And when you have a performing arts degree and you live in New York City, you do like the actors do and you work in restaurants. Yeah. And I was blessed to work for a restaurant group that was really rough to work for, but they had great wine training program. So I got interested in mine and the kind of music I was doing, which I have on card classical music, maybe. Most of my my peers went on to become professors. That's kind of the normal career route, and I wasn't interested in that. So wine became a new alternative for me, and I started studying. And I was very lucky to win a competition that the Sonya Association put on, that when we had tried to reasbaceous. However, the gentleman who organized that was consultant who worked with a number of other wines in New Zealand, New York lines, and South Africa. Okay. So we became friends on the trip, and he introduced me to his other clients, obviously, including South Africa, and that became a bit of a special to me from me. Now I also hadn't considered writing about wine, I, which I continued to do. Okay. But having won a writing competition, it opened the door to write for a website called starships. Yeah. And, yeah. Yep. So I was there. I think their first full time wine person, for about a year, And then I published something in New York Times. Okay. And I started doing more freelancing, and I kind of moved away from them. And but all that time, I realized that no one was really specializing in South Africa, so it was there for the taking. So I went on to get somebody ate a couple of restaurants and a computer writing on the side, but everything came out of that one, that winning that one competition because writing started, the South Africa connection started, and then, about almost exactly, eleven years ago because September first will be my eleventh anniversary with with wines of South Africa. I came out with them full time. The restaurant group I was working for wanted me to really commit to the restaurant, you know, at least seventy hours a week. And I thought I I'm I I'm already the wine director in the closing manager, I don't think I can also be the events person and Yeah. There was a limit. Yeah. Yeah. And that was the best thing that ever happened to me. So now I get to do South Africa all the time, and I stole right on the side so I can keep my hand in, And I think so that appreciates that it really the the writing means I'm much more aware of what's going really going on in the rest of the wine world, you know, by going on trips together with some ways to see how they react to, the Rhine Gaur or whatever, and then I can think about how we do things in South Africa. So it's a plus. Yeah. It keeps you more well rounded, and it's funny because, you know, I've talked to a couple of other people who specialize in one place. I mean, even myself, like, having written about Texas wine for so long, have to be careful that you're not pigeonholed, but also to keep your mind fresh about what's going on out there, you know. And so it helps you put your place, in this case, South Africa into context with the rest of the world. And let's face it. Right? South Africa's on the very southern hemisphere. And it's very far removed from a lot of the rest of the world. Ironically, actually, I for five stars, which is part of VIN Italy, five stars wine competition, I was able to see Richard Kershaw and Andrea Molineux, they came up this past year were judges and also helped get some seminars during that time. I remember Andrea Munt mentioned that, actually, and they said they had a great time. Yeah. It was really cool to see them. And so there was a little bit of a connection. With Italy in South Africa, and I should also, mention Manford, Inc, who is the winemaker for Coacheabella, who is South Africa. So there you go. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. I love the Cretchabella ones. I do too. Yeah. Big plug for them. So I'm actually curious about So let's talk about South Africa first because in more particular, the job that you do. So you're basically you're the marketing manager for the US market. So you have someone in Canada who's doing it, or they have someone in Canada who does it, etcetera, etcetera. Tell me about what your job is. I mean, you're going around the country talking or, you know, kind of explain that to me. So we function differently in different countries. There's different countries at different needs, and also our different team members have different skill sets. So I actually very work very closely with my counterpart, in Canada. We call ourselves team North America. I love it. Though, though, technically, we have a separation of responsibilities, but she comes from over marketing background, and I obviously come from a similar yay background. So when I'm working together, for example, with a retailer here in the States to put together a a marketing promotion, she can provide valuable insights. Oh, nice. And when she wants someone to come up and, you know, speak some and do the the sort of presentations sort of thing, that's my skill set. Okay. So I will sometimes go up to Toronto or Vancouver or whatever to do that for her when she's got things going there. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Got it. But then from from your writing side, which is that part where you're able to keep your foot in the door and the rest of the world, What does that look like? You're able to travel all over the world, and who are some of the places that you write for? I mean, you kind of swung big by getting started with New York Times right off the bat. That's Well, that that that was, I was real sore. A long time ago, but I took a class with Media Bistro about how to pitch because I figured I'd have to reach other Yeah. Venues. I need to know how to do this. Yeah. And we did different sorts of artists and we did an op ed. And this was the, since two thousand four, so the Supreme Court was hearing the shipping case back then, the New York fish finished cases. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And so I wrote something about that, and my instructor who had written for the New York Times said this is perfect for New York Times. Perfect. Well, going back to that trip to be as spacious. One of the other journalists on that trip was Brian Miller, former food critic for the New York Times. I said, well, I've got a contact. I told Brian, Hey, do you know who I should send this to? He said, send it to me. I'll forward it. Then there you go. You know, it's gotta be nice to people because people are gonna go over things that go open doors. You know, not Yeah. It's not just about knowing your shit. You need to be nice Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. You know, like, I mean, yeah, connected. It's not about what is it? Oh, the old adage, like, it's not about what you know. It's about who you know? Yep. Exactly. Yep. Yeah. It's very true. So you write for other publications such as World Define wine, Plabid in a logic. Is that correct? So, it's I mean, it's varied over the years as publications change their policies of it. Like, certainly, we're in the pandemic. I was waiting for fortune a lot, and then they stopped using freelancers for a long time. Yeah. But right now, yeah, world world defined wine, which is one of my favorite places to write because they, some imprints do lots of long form, which you very rarely get a chance to spread out when you're writing, you know. Unfortunately, the pieces I wrote for them were actually what won me the Louis rotor feature journals award in, yeah, last year that there was the rotor rotor award twenty twenty. So I write for them, and I write for clubbing logic, another British publication. I write for seven fifty daily fairly regularly, the wine review online. I think I would say those are my made my most regular outlets. I've been writing more and more for full pour and more in Bazio's new publication. Yes. Winds to South Africa as a full time job. So that is really kind of the the limit. I mean, if I suppose if I had a particular idea that I was like, oh, this really suits publication x, I might take pitch at it, but I tend to dilute or direct my experiences or like, well, how does this fit one of those publications? Because those are my normal outlets. Right. So I'm curious, you know, with the writing outlet for you, what are some of the things that you'd like to be able to dig into I mean, are there other regions that have been exciting to you? You know, I mean, obviously, you can't write about wines of South Africa, you know, because that would be a conflict of interest for South Africa. So so what are some of it's not a conflict of interest for South Africa. Really? Actually, it's a conflict of interest for the publication. Got you. Yeah. So, yeah, I really haven't with one big exception. I haven't really written about South Africa since I took the, the job. But in theory, you know, I could write for one of those British publications because the British market is not my responsibility within Wosa. Fair enough. But, you know, let's discuss trouble. So I generally don't pitch South African stories. However, I was certainly very happy when the classic wine library said, why don't you write the book about wines of South Africa. Yeah. So it's all about what the editors think is best for their publication. So if they think that I'm the one who has the expertise and that is worth the fact that I have a interest in the growth of the category, then it's fine. But, yeah, in different publications in different policies. So Yeah. But, generally, I don't go around trying to pitch stuff after ideas. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. That's fair. Yeah. Well, first of all, you dropped the mic on the book there. That that book came out in twenty twenty. Twenty twenty. July twenty twenty. The ideal time for release book. But it actually it doesn't matter because of the COVID thing, all of that. Like, it is one of the best, like, most comprehensive, all inclusive book on South Africa. In terms of a reference opportunities. I wanted to write something that one of the first things I learned about wine books is they are out of date, the date they come out. They're exactly very important. And so I wanted to really focus on the things that would be lasting that I could write about. So I'm very proud of the section on the history of South Africa on the social side of South Africa, which is so important. Yeah. And the efforts for the of the industry to, you know, rectify the, the errors and awful things that happen with the industry during apartheid. Yeah. You know, the wind industry wasn't it's very complicated, and it's a whole separate podcast. But it's something I wanted to address. And one thing I I am grateful is that even though there's a an honesty of approach in South Africa, you could think of, the nineteen nineties when the departure was ending, they had the truth and reconciliation commission. Yeah. And it was let's just put it all out there. And and be honest about it and be honest about work, but people are trying to do about it and be honest about, well, you know, what works and what doesn't. It was really great during when, during the pandemic. Around the same time the book came out with with Black Lives Matter. People started really scrutinizing wine industries around the world for these sorts of issues. And, obviously, South Africa has a ways to go given the amount of white people who dominate the industry versus black and other people. Right. But the story is moving forward in the right direction, and there are lots of great examples that I could point to say, like, this is this is what's happening, and we could be, out of those, even though we know we have, I won't row it wrote ahead in this. Yeah. Yeah. No. And that was actually a really great section of the book. I know I ended up using it for a story that I wrote about, you know, are we seeing more black faces in the cellar? Like, not not David in ownership of things Right. Which is a it's a it's an interesting topic. Well, when they did the reader for for the series Yeah. Originally, they said, why don't we use the his something from the history section? And I said, you know, we should use this section about the social side. The social side. Yeah. So what are some other places of interest for you that you, you know, either you've traveled to, you've written about recently that have kind of been inspiring or of curious interest? Well, I've always had, always, but I I've always liked Italian wine, and my last twenty eight job was the amount of Mr. Rante. So it's the Armani clothing company. Yeah. They have a wonderful restaurant. Well, was rent I haven't been for a long time. It was wonderful. In the Shop and fifth Avenue, and I ran that program and really built it up when we got a a best of award from Spectator. So I've I really love Italian wines. I I find I miss Sanjay Vaysen. I just take Sanjay Vaysen. I used to. So so that's always, something I like to work with. I lived in Germany for a couple of years before I was interested in wine. Yeah. My term is decent. So I always like to touch on that. But lately, I mean, things have taken me all over the place, kind of, with an Italian connection, my my, I think my most recent Italian trip, our most recent trip was Italy, starting on the Italian border of Slovenia in Frioli, and working down through Istria. So we hit Slovenia and Croatia, and there's a, a Dutch author, Paul Ballke, who's written the book about the Boyinson North Adriatic, and, and sees that as, despite the international borders there, sees it as a, as contiguous area. An interesting, it's an interesting argument. I I kind of see where he's coming from, but in any case, whether that's true or not, it's definitely a really exciting area for, for wine. And I I drink more white wine than I do red. So I'm always interested in a place that makes white wines that are interesting and that have texture and are not just light and neutral. Yep. It's one of the reasons I I like South Africa. I feel like the white wines really shine. Absolutely. There. The red wine shine as well, but the white wines heavy is something that you don't find in many New World countries. Yeah. Yeah. When you look at's happening, that part of the world of of Italy and Slovenia Croatia with Malthusia, Astraana, and Rubula, Rubogiana. Freilano, it's just really Oh, there. Yeah. I agree with you. I think that's a really important point. So we're here at TexOM. Mhmm. And this is one of the main reasons I wanted to talk to you other than you're just a good friend and very interesting. Seriously, one of the ways that I met you for the first time was on the other side of TexOM. So not as a speaker and not as an attendee, but actually as someone who was working behind the scenes. And Wosa, wines of South Africa, has been a sponsor, as part of your job in the marketing arena. We all have been in in relationship with Texom for how many years? Think it's eleven years. I think it's ever I think it's something that I brought to Texom, because I I met James in South Africa. Oh, okay. So we met, at Cape Point twenty twelve. So the year before I came over, I was over as a guest because I was actually, but I think writing a lot about South Africa at the time, what have you. So so we met, and, that's why I learned about TexOM. And when I served with Rosa, it was just obvious that this was something we liked. So tell me about how that's evolved because I I would assume that the relationship has been really been official for the things that you do in terms of who you're trying to reach and why Texon makes makes that possible. Yeah. Well, because wines of South Africa is such a small organization, I mean, it's just me for the whole US. We really need to focus our energies on the trade and create ambassadors within the trade. We can't just like hire a team. We have to reach the people who've talked to the consumers, and so we really focus on the trade. And this is the place to meet the trade, and at all levels. Yeah. Because you look at who's who's speaking here, and you've got great experienced people who have, you know, broad influence, but at the same time, especially working with the volunteers, which is where my focus has been or the sponsor should be worked with ever since we started. You're meeting people who are often this is their first time. They've gone somewhere for training. You know, maybe they've they've had a great mentor, whoever's whatever city they're in or whatever. They come here and they're with sixty or a hundred other sommeliers, all in that same stage of their life cycle in the industry. Yeah. And South Africa is often, you know, it's at the back of the list. It's often in the back of the store, and it's in the back of the book. Mhmm. So people start, well, we've got to learn French wine, however, we by putting this front of mind, reaching them when when they're young, and they know this is a serious category with three sixty plus years of history, making great wines with lots of things going on, and I try to be practical things that they can use in their store or on the floor or whatever, you know, get the mother open minded. If before they have that mentor who says, It certainly has. Yes. But I always know if I do a a master class on peanutage, plenty of gray hair myself Yes. The grayish haired person in the room is the one who's gonna before he bathe me off the glass come up with all sorts of negative things. Yeah. Reason's not to enjoy peanutage, which is not fair. But I think that that's really important. So just kinda to give that background on the structure of Texom, the people polishing the glasses, the people setting up all the seminars and making sure everybody's got their wines poured and everything like that. It's not staff paid staff. It's not staff from the convention center in which, TexOM is hosted. It's actual volunteers from people all over the country who literally submit an application to be asked to come and work. And these are people who are working most likely, working the floor of restaurants or in retail shops. Yep. And their goal is to expand their career opportunities in the wine industry. So they may be studying for certifications through the Court of Master sommeliers or through the WSET or what have you. But either way, this is a place where they can come. And, yes, work. They work very long hours. They're polishing late into the night, and they're up at six AM getting dressed in full suits and everything, but they're creating a community and network of people not only of like age and like, you know, peer group, but also, as you said, they're getting to meet the speakers and those who have come before them, and then also people like you who are introducing them to things that they may not yet be familiar with. Yep. I find that to be one of the coolest things about TexOM is that it's not just a a attendee facing conference it's also a a conference that faces back into the behind the scenes. Yeah. And has built something that is pretty unique. Yeah. I think the whole premise and, you know, James can elaborate this is his thing, but you know, it's not a transactional exercise, where it's like, hey, you know, I'm gonna show you these wines here and put them on your list. It's a relationship building and a community building exercise. So that means you don't want to have subpassed people who are not part of that community building. So all the volunteers, through to the speakers, through to the attendees, were all in this together. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty interesting. And I I imagine, I mean, with your eleventh year, I mean, what has been the kind of return for you? You don't have to put that in dollars. I don't mean that. That's that's for Wosa to answer. But I think, again, just like traveling, I see what, other regions are doing and what they what they value with their, put their emphasis on. I think most important, especially since, you know, we we sponsor this, what do we call the Sommelier lounges for the volunteers, and we tie taste wines while they're taking a break from polishing glasses, they'll come over for five minutes. They'll taste a few wines. They'll go polish more glass. They'll come back. They'll taste a few more and so on, getting to know them, seeing how they react to the wines, talk to them about how they can use their wine in the programs. But then, you know, like, there's a contingent for Mississippi that comes all the time. Amazing. And that was not on my radar, but then I started talking to them. There's a large expat community of South Africans in Southern Mississippi working in the con industry. Are you kidding me? So there's opportune. No. No. No. They're looking up this New York Times article about it. Oh my gosh. Yep. So you've cracked into a whole different market. Yeah. I Mississippi was not on my, you know, focus focused region Yeah. Radar, but I've gone and done a master classes for that group, and they're so, yeah, someone throughs to have someone come that they they throw out the red carpet, and we really are able to beat the derm really strong in for south after mine through these connections. And that that's just one example. But, you know, I've already, I mean, got a stack of cards already from just a day and a half here at Texom. I was like, okay, I need to get to Georgia this year and we're gonna work with this group. Yep. Gotta get down to Miami because Ray's got a great group down there that I wanna work with. So on and so forth. Yeah. I think that's really cool because, yeah, as you said, it's opening different ideas for you to kind of make more of an impact. Yeah. Well, Jim, I'm really glad that you took the the time to come and sit down with me and talk to me for a little bit. I feel like it's important that we share kind of all, you know, everyone's trying to get out there into into the wine world and and speak their message. And I think you've done a great job of that for wines to South Africa, but I also think you've done that for people in the wine community who are wanting to further their education and their careers. So it's, you know, Good job both ways. Thank you. I I think right now, and we we look at people drinking less wine and wondering about whether it's healthy to have wine as part of your lifestyle, whatever. That community aspect is just so much even more important than it already was. And it's a little bit lost. I mean, she was reading a Harvard health report about the health things, and I think we can fight back on that front. I agree. Let's remind people that, you know, it's not about getting drunk. It's about conviviality and collegiality and getting together enjoying one day. That's why it comes in a bottle so you can share it. Yeah. Exactly. I love that. That's a really great way to put it. And, yeah, it's a culture of wine that I think we're we're trying to propagate. So thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcasts. Were on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, EmailIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.