Ep. 1242 Riccardo Baldi | The Next Generation

Coming soon to a city near you, VIN Italy roadshow. Have you ever wondered how to attend VINitally for free? Are you a wine trade professional interested in a sponsored trip to VINitally International Academy or Vina Italy the wine and spirits exhibition coming soon to Princeton, New Jersey, Harlem, New York, and Chinatown in New York City, Cartiff in Wales, London, in England, and Roost in Austria. We'll be giving away our new textbook Italian Wine Unplug two point zero. Find out more about these exciting events and for details on how to attend, go to live shop dot benitely dot com. Limited spots available, sign up now. We'll see you soon. Welcome to the next generation. I'm Victoria Chacha, join me as we chat with young Italian wine people shaking up the wine scene. We're going to geek out on a grape or grape fam and hear about all the wild wine things are destined up to. From vineyard experiments to their favorite wine bars. Okay. We are live live live. The next generation. Of the Italian wine podcast with me, Victoria Cercche. We are here today. We are going to be talking about a very, very fun grape varietal that I adore with all my heart really love drinking verdicchio. It's a very, very sexy white wine, and I'm gonna be talking to a super jazzy, a young winemaker, ricardo Baldi from LaSafa winery in La Marque where verdicchio, comes from, well, a little debate on where that it actually comes from, but we'll get into that later. So we're gonna dive into a little bit about the Redicchio grape. You know, the stuff Stevie wants me to do, you know, talk all the technicalities from our Italian wine, unplugged book. And then we're gonna have Ricardo and we're gonna chit chat about all things to know about Virdicchio, but more life, all the things, you know, drop your comments, questions, if you like. So let's dive into it. I don't know how many of you have had ridiculous amounts once in the market for the first time this summer. And it was exquisite. Lemarca is one hell of a region, one undiscovered region for somebody who is not from Italy and I'm sure for people who are from Italy because let's be real no matter you're in Italy or you know, sitting in the Vanator in Vodola or you're sitting in New Jersey, like where I'm from. You don't always leave your region or state all that often all the time when you really don't have to. I mean, no, you check. There's better train travel here, but I digress. Verdicchio is a noble Italian grape. It produces wines with high acidity. It's very age worthy. It has a bit of a kind of funny history which we'll get into shortly. It's says here from the book is one of the varieties that is named after its color of course, Vericchio Verdez green in Italian. And so it has a few synonyms. A lot of synonyms actually, but a few. Let's say. Verdona verzana verdeto verzello And then you also have Incocho bruni fifty four, which is a crossing of Redicchio in Sabignon blanc. Wow. I didn't know that. And then getting into the more confusing realm about Redicchio, you have Trebiano di Swogin, Trebiano di lu Lugano which are biotypes of Radicchio and have this whole story which have made Viricchio a little bit overwhelming at first to understand because it's like, what is what? Tabiano delugano. I don't know, Viricchio. We made it through. We've identified them with their own names. Given Traviano D' suave and Traviano de Lugana grow in lugana and suave. So we set that apart. Those are not in the market. Those are near us in verona. Swave just being east of here and Lugana just being west of here by La So back to it. However, for precision steak, Tabiano de Lugana is genetically different from those other two grapes. So, admittedly by very small amounts, Tabiano de Lugana, Tabiano de suave are very different. From Verdicchio in the way they taste, obviously grow in different places. But just so you know, their bioterrorists. Moving on. So despite what scientists say is best of you, Trebiano di suave, Trebiano di Lugana, and Verdicchio is different. In fact, in order to avoid the confusion, the official name of Trebiano is Alright. Now, we're gonna move away from all the synonyms a little bit, so we can focus on Virdicchio not confuse you guys anymore and get to our wonderful interview today. Moving on to the market where Verdicchio grows his produce. You have a few DOCs and DOCGs. So you have probably most famous, most leading. You have your deco de castellide de C doc and then the reserve would be the docG. Then you have your deco de Matali dot doc. And again, the reserve are being the docJ. And then the rest I'm not gonna rant about because those have to do with the bio types. Verdicchio is a slow ripening grape and adds tons of great acidity, which is why it's so wonderfully ageable amongst other things, other reasons. So now, We are going to dive into our wonderful wonderful interview. Get to Noricardo Baldi from LaSafa winery. He is a young winemaker who started off by taking over the small, I think about two hectares of his dad's land in Stapo, which is where his winery is now, it's the same area. He fell in love with winemaking, and he hasn't stopped since he was twenty years old. And so he's made a lot of I mean, for his age, I mean, what he's doing is very incredible. I got to visit him actually this summer, which was really cool. Yes, drink for Dikia all the way. Very delicious. And I love the versatility of his wines. How are you? How are you? Fine. Thank you. What's up to you again? I know. It's been not that long but long. I feel like it it's it's felt like two seconds since the summer. The harvest. And for us, the harvest is, like, two months. But the feeling, is only, like, five days because it's all at the time a rush. Yes. We work, like, fifteen, six. The three hours a day. So, no, one month and a half hour, they end up feel like all the few few days. And so, yeah, the summer was just around the corner from now. So how many hours do you sleep a night during harvest? And if it's none, I understand. I I know I know that it's not very, easy to trust it, but normally if I give, hours a night, four hour to reunite, because more is impossible. We normally work from, five thirty AM to eleven PM, every day. So it's very difficult to sleep more than five hours. So was there ever a night that you never slept? No. It's very difficult to do. No. Are you not just you don't wanna tell us because then we'd be concerned. That's awesome. So when did you wrap up harvest? We start from, we start up, beginning of September, and we finished on five seat topper. Okay. So so one month and a few days. Was a very beautiful harvest. This summer was a nightmare because Norway, you know, for all the summer, very, very, high temperature very high degrees during the summer, we we had, like, thirty five degree chances for, the airasia, at least in front of the airages around thirty degrees chances for all the summer. And we are in a in the area for other fifty meters above the sea. So it's not very it's quite high elevation of or for a facility SN. So it's not the one to have a soft by temperature, but at the end of August, the beginning of September start to rain a lot. And, the water in the last part of the summer helped us a lot to have, to balance a little bit more the harvest. So, yes, was, in my opinion, was it was a good harvest. So you're happy. That's good. That's good. No. It's too early to tell. There's still still things going on. Alright. Let me dial it back. All the way back to when you were born. Your first sip of verdice. I I was very lucky because my grandpa, start to put my finger on his, glass where it was, like, five, maybe six years old. Grandma off with Europe. Yeah. Your feet. But in the past. Yeah. Yeah. Inside the glass. Now when I when I was a child inside the air glass, when there was, like, five, six, two, takes a little sip of wine and then, feel the testing of the wine. Wait. So your hands or your feet? Yeah. No. No. No. No. Hands. Okay. I thought it was a feat. I'm sorry. I was like, sorry. My grandma have put my hand inside the hair glass. And so my first sip of Erlicchio was in maybe nineteen ninety five, nineteen ninety six when I was five or six years old. Then, my father bought a couple of Hector by the other nine in the last two thousand four. So first time, I spent time inside the Vineer who was in two thousand four. Obviously, I was born in staff follow-up though, and staff is a little bit larger. Two thousand people working staff follow. Two thousand people live in staff follow. And we are, we have a twenty company that makes Vericchio. So he's very normal for me to see, by the end all over my place, you know, because in staff follow all around, you are surrounded by Viator. But my family was not involved in the Y business. So for me, it was something new in two thousand and four. I was fourteen at the time. My father, both a couple of acts are gonna start to be quite like this hobby. And, so my first harvest was on, the interest two thousand and four. Oh, wow. Then, yeah, after a year, he spent a lot of time, making wine and, and take care, taking care of the binder. And then, about is not is, for for him. I was not his career job. So he has another job. He used to work in the backyard in the weekend. Oh. So in two thousand and nine and twenty ten, I finished the high school. I started at the study at university at the same time. I, have my father to make the ARvest, the older item. I do it all almost by myself because my father was very busy in this, this real job. And I sent a lot with India, to pick my other wine. So I asked my father to to cover his value on the and, from Vintech twenty ten, last I take care of, of his land. And after some year after year, we increased, we increased a little bit the buyer we have, and I from two thousand and ten, I p is my company. Awesome. This is my pastry and piece of waste. A little a little piece. So did, your dad give you that land willingly, or was it a bit of a battle? Or did he want you to be alive? No. No. No. He was he was very happy because, he is, really passionate about white baking, at the same time, he he completely know, verifiable that for him, it was not possible to take care in the right way. Because he has no time to to take care of the family. And, if you have, like, a little piece of land, you you can take care of the weekend only. But if you want to be quiet, and if you have, like, a couple of vector, also a little busy is a couple of vector, but no, it's a little bit too much to do it in the weekend. So every time every year was bored, if you got to take care of the Vania, and he was very, he was in a moment of of his life. He was thinking about how to manage this, Vania sometimes he thinks he saw the land that he felt the land. That's not. And so he was very, very happy to make my company. And he's still very happy. Oh. Obviously, also because it meanwhile, we made a very beautiful company, but, he's still very happy. So does he is, does he help you in the vineyards? Like, or is he still in the winery? Yeah. Unfortunately, not because he he came here after a year more busy on his, real job, first job. So few few few few days here, he, he have time to help me. But, yeah. He's he's always here. Now, when I am something broke in the cellar, he can't be able to help me to to fix it. So, yeah, we are very, close together, and we every time we have these, we try to to move, to image in the future of the seller together. Awesome. Oh, that's so special. Like, having the little, like, father's son dream. I bet your dad's so happy from that. It's like every dad's dream. Even like, for me, my dad's a dentist, and I'm not gonna be a dentist. And it breaks his heart. Like, he's He doesn't tell me he's heartbroken, but I see it in his face. So, no, that's that's awesome. I would okay. So I wanted to actually bring it out a little bit and talk a little bit about Limape being someone that grew up right in in Stafoulou in in in, the Castale de Esi area. Because something for me coming to Limape for the first time one part being in the wine industry, but also being a little tourist, you know. I was just amazed that no one really knew about this place, like, at least from the American perspective, like Le Marquis, stunning. Like, it is it's it's awesome. Like, it it's so cool and there's so many, like, special parts. Like, what makes le Marque rad? Like, what makes it great? Like, as someone your age, like, what do you do that, like, Okay. If I was a young American girl who didn't work in the wine industry, how would you advocate for me to come to the monarchy? Italian wine podcast, part of the mama jumbo shrimp family. Okay. But the beautiful things of Lemark, maybe first of all, is that Lemark are very unknown, around the world. No. And it's not the first time, but I have this conversation with someone from outside of of Italy, you know, because first time, everyone come here, and, let's start with a piece of his of his heart here in Lamar, you know, because the area is, very unknown about at the same time. It's very, very, very different. To to let American people, determine the bill of market, we are today to to say that lemar the area, the countryside of Leemarkel, located a bit around, located a bit like Tuscany. You know? So around here, selling a lot of vineyards, a lot of different kind of culture. And this is very useful. But the most important things in my opinion is that Lebarca now are not very tourist. So everything you can see here in Lebarca are real, are made for for people that live in the market, that live in the market every day. So people here, wants to have a beautiful truck to be, close to daily places, wants to to have a great meal. Don't spend a lot of money. Want to drink red wine. Obviously, we're gonna be showing beer of lebarcate in the south of lebarcate in the south of lebarcate in the south of lebarcate. And and another video called, the characteristic in biopinion of Lemarket is that the region is very, not a fee, time, enough So you can drive from the sea to the mountains in, like, one hour and thirty minutes, one hour and twenty minutes. So everything is very close and very different. You you have a beautiful area in the corner area. See side, you have the beautiful castelli DSE hill, thirty five minutes from, forty five minutes from Ankona, and then other thirty minutes, you have, a payday. So you have the mountains of the central part of it that a lot of different trail characteristic, a lot of different places, a lot of different view, a lot of different experience, you know, in the same place, you know, different, we'll continue every day. In in lebarc. And and all is very close, very, very around you. But what makes it okay. Like, what makes it more, like, for lack of a better word sexy. Like, what did you do last night? Like, what do you do for fun in the market? Like, let's be real. Like, what was your craziest night in the market in in Stapo? In most places we can do in stuff where we get drunk. And like roll down the vineyard. The seller of some friends. True. Yeah. Also, okay. Or you can go break into that. No. Normally, in the weekend, we, especially in the summer. We spend our weekend in the seaside because it's very, you know, close. So it's normal to drive for twenty five bureaus to the seaside. And, spent night, having dinner outside in the restaurant in the sea, you know, I think, close to the sea side. And then, we have some other disco in the in the see side. So the weekend for a young man, a young lady is very, it's not like, very touristic place, actually, but we can have, a lot of fun, especially few beautiful places where we have a very high level of wine bar and restaurants Mhmm. Like Sanigalia. Ah, Fabiti Fiedra. One mission and one three mission star and one two missions star restaurant. Oh, wow. So you like to whine and dine. Yeah. I like it. I like it all. I like also to spend night in the disco, but I like more to have a wine and dine. Yes. Also because we have a lot of playing while doing while we can do it? Yeah. I'm I've what's your favorite? Do you have a favorite or, like, a couple? It's able to say. Sure. Cerigalia is the place where you have to be. If you want to to have a beautiful tonight, for forever, dinner line. One of my for the February place is in San Diego. It's a particular kind of tortilla, and not tortilla like, traditional cuisine of lemarche, but it's like fusion from, traditional cuisine from lemarche, and, South Spanish, because he he shares that the owner, he's an Italian guy, but He also sought out today in Granada in, south of spade. He's to he makes is to culture making very, very beautiful dishes. And they have also, I don't know, missing select collection of natural wine, So he said I have very cool answer for this reason. So it's my Santito there. Oh, it's obviously. Oh, that sounds delicious. That's so I would never have expected that. That fusion. That's so cool. Yeah. Yeah. You have to spend more time. Next time you'll be here, you have to spend more time, not just one day. You have to spend like four or five days with me. We will be go around, we'll be by friends. We go around after being that it was beautiful places. Okay. So I have two questions about that trip. One, do you, like, have to listen to Fabry Figra if you're in the market? Is that, like, the regional anthem? Is that all we're gonna listen to? He was born he was born in San Diego, but I didn't know he lived in Milan, since like a lot of years ago. Oh, I see. I never seen him around. So he's, like, ex he's, like, exleymarket. Like, he's not, Yeah. He was born here, but he moved, when he was here. Ah, so it's kinda scandalous. So you guys are like, nah, he's not part part of us. Like, I'm kidding. He's here, but I never see morale. Maybe last year when he was, like, twenty five in the beginning, he moved to law, to Inc. To the, you know, to emulate King. Brighter. Someone says you prefer Jacamoleopardi instead. Okay. Now he's a friend of mine. I don't know who that is. So, I mean the eighteenth century. One of the most important. Right? Oh, wait a minute. Yes. Yeah. That's all that he wrote the infinitive. I mean, one of these is famous. Yes. No. I know who that is now. I was I guess my brain was on Sabri Fibro, and I was like, that doesn't sound like a rapper I know. And I was like, oh, yeah, weird. Yeah. He's a writer. Like, he's from, like Maybe it was like, you know, and some rapper are, also consider, like, wider of updates, you know, nowadays. So Raffordante was a rapper of his time. He was a rapper of his time. I mean, yeah, that's how people feel about Fran's list. Like, he was the rock star. But if you played that for people now, they they wouldn't probably get it. But actually was just listening to lists before this. Never mind, anyway. So, and someone else. Sirolo was the place for dinner on a summer. Yes. Sirolo is beautiful. Yeah. I didn't go there at night though. I went there during the day once because I was I when I was in Lamatica for ten days, I'm sorry. I only saw you one of those ten days. So Okay. This is a problem, but it is your first time in my place. So we never met any each other. So next time, you have more familiar with media, we can stay both hands together. Okay. Now I'm like next summer, I'm I'm gonna have five crazy days in the market. Okay. No. I mean No. It's a great deal. I mean, I don't know if anyone who ever's listening being the the first time I went to La Marque and seeing I mean, all of it, like, like you're saying, the mountains, the sea, the vineyards, the wine. Like, I I was never unhappy. Like, I you know, I found the perfect little trattoria and that I would go to every day and drink miscellaneous verdicchio, not your verdicchio, whatever they put in the in the cuartino, and I would I the food is everything just just so wonderful. But, yeah, no. I think I think that's the coolest part about people drinking more verdicchio is, like, them re like, discovering a place that is really. I mean, not that I wanted to have all this tourism, but, like, just a little more appreciation because I I I love the market. I think, I mean, it's a big area. There's so much a sea. And actually, like, now that we're, like, you know, coming towards the end of this interview. I always have this feeling, and I wanted to ask you about this. So, obviously, Castale Diazi and Matalica, very different docs, hence, whether their own DOC. But for me as a wine drinker, sometimes I feel like they seem like they have a feud. Like, you know what I mean? Like, there's like a little is there a little bit of a feud? Is there any scandal or is it just me making things up in my head? No. No. Schedule. Okay. It's to go older because, you know, never it's never a good thing except to have scaled up on them. There is this, I have to to say something for, you know, to explain to everyone that different between castellan ESE and Poterica. Castellan ESE is, the nomination, white, big, twenty five. I have villages, inside the castellan ESE area. And Caseladesse is a hill area close to the sea. So in land, that, the area of Caseladesse, we have a four river around the area of Caseladesse. So all the ballet of Caseladesse are in the west to, east, no, so from, from the mountains to the sea. So we feel the influence of the sea, almost all over the domination of Caselica, is the only good length of climate of lemma. Mhmm. Okay. Because the body of metallica is, depression inside two chain of mountains. So there are metallica in the area of metallica. You have not the influence of the sea. The the air of material is a little bit more cold because all the cold air, the flu from the mountain to the valet feel a little bit the climate, the air of mechanical. So to very different microclimate, to very different different side composition of goods on. Because in the area of maintaining at the soil, it's a little bit more poor, because we have all the rocks from in the in the years and years, the whole drops from the top of the mountain that go down in the valley. And the first, like, one meter, one meter, one meter and a half of ground in the area of Montelica are very rocky, very rich in the stalls and rocky. In the area of Caselier, this is we are we are more clear limestone. So very different microclimate, temperature and soil composition. Yes. But I told at the beginning. Right? I say at the beginning, it's very spread out. It's very big. And inside the area of custody, yes, you have a really, really huge numbers of microclimate, soil composition, temperature, altitude. And so we have some error, for example, insightful or for the linearity that look a little bit like metallic. I'm drinking, the two wide, you know, I'd, blind tasting, you can be a little bit confused because you're normally metallic at the wire more mirror, you know, with more salt in it. I think, but in stuff for a cupra antenna, you you feel, you you find find a similar variety. Very you you remember my wine. They are very, very salty, very vibrant, very vertical. They look like a lot. Like, they wind in material. So for some reason, sometimes, the different materika and EAC are not so big, you know. People think testing the wine sometimes is, more difficult, you know, to to feel the difference between the EAC and material. But this characteristic, in the same, it's the same, if you dig, to Barbaresco and Barolo. Some denomination, some MGA of Pararesco are very different from some chemistry of barolo. But if you pick the current barolo and the correct barolo and you drink it blind, they are very difficult to say, this is barolo. This is barolo. Because if you if you take, for example, Montego Esco that is one of the most, look like Barolo stein of Barmarisco, and you take, a bottle, a little around the more reach and the two more similar than, normally, people talk about the virus. No. That's a that's a super those are that's a super valid point. And, basically, why I proposed that question because I know there's so much there's overlap and it's It's it's it's confusing when you don't well, first of all, when you, you know, another thing about visiting is like when you've never been to the place, so you don't have that physical awareness. And then if you're you're also just reading, you're like, okay. So, you know, Okay. I know the soils. I know these things are different, but, like, what actually and that's super true. Like, hasselle de Ez is a very vast area if you look at the map. Yeah. The one of the problem that the market is famous around the board of that Castel ESE is a combination that know a lot of attention. And inside Castel ESE, we have a lot, a lot, a lot of people between villages and villages. And, is a is a that people know so few about Lebar. Okay? Because here, people, around the world, things at Verdeq are like, he he's a co founder. Video from all the the nomination, the VQ has the same testing. It is not the true. It's it's similar to the Le langue, Barolo has a lot of different version inside the the nomination of parole or or Barbara is called the same, and the same is for Castale DSE. We have twenty five milligrams and a lot of different between, one of the of the, one to the other one. So we have a lot of different style and a lot of different things over. Thank you. And if LaMar was more famous, more popular, people arrive here, come here busy, more and more, sellers, and then we can back over with more knowledge about the markets and customer liaison because we have a lot to tell. Oh, yeah. And I wish we had more time to tell. Sadly, we have to wrap up But to wrap it up on a very positive note, it's Thursday. As in the States, we say, Thursday, Thursday. I know it's very cheesy. So You can see I have, I know. You can't see what's in this glass. A little trick. Anyways, so really quickly, what are you drinking? What are you doing tonight? And then we'll sign off. Okay. It's very fun because tonight, we have, testing in a beautiful wine shop, while in wine shop and wine bar, you can have unlimited name is Clyde four. They makes, sometimes they organize some testing during the Thursday. And, tonight, a friend of mine from Cooper Montana, the company is a colleague, Trump, the name of the company. They made, like, testing with a different wines, different vintages of same label. So nine labels and three different vintages each. So we'll be very beautiful tonight because we have, beautiful perspective, in the wine they made, because they made, like, one orange wine with Verbiano, Balbacie and Verbicchio. They drink, glue with verdicchio. Very, very, very, very old video of verdicchio. And, yeah, we'll be we we will enjoy for sure the night because, we will have, for sure, a beautiful tasting tonight. Awesome. Well, that sounds a lot better than the gin and tonic I'm probably going to drink. Think it's always a good good choice. Always always. Well, sadly, we have to go, but it was so nice of you to join us today, Ricardo. I'm so happy to see your face again and to chat again. Thank you so much. Absolutely. And everyone go visit, Ricardo in Lasafa. And, yes, there's ridiculous on the table. That's good. Thanks for being on the next generation. Cheers to you and everything you're doing. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for inviting me. Alright. As always, a big drop say for hanging out with me today, remember you can catch me every Sunday on the Italian wine podcast. Available anywhere, you can get your pots.