Ep. 1260 Matteo Vaccari & Maddalena Fucile | The Next Generation

Coming soon to a city near you, VIN Italy Road Show. Have you ever wondered how to attend VINitally for free? Are you a wine trade professional interested in a sponsored trip to VINitally International Academy or VIN Italy? The wine and spirits exhibition coming soon to Princeton, New Jersey, Harlem, New York, and Chinatown in New York City, Cardiff in Wales, London, in England, London, in England, and Roost in Austria. We'll be giving away our new textbook Italian Wine Unplug two point zero. Find out more about these exciting events and for details on how to attend, go to live shop dot vn Italy dot com. Limited spots available. Sign up now. We'll see you soon. Welcome to the next generation. I'm Victoria Chacha, join me as we chat with young Italian wine people shaking up the wine scene. We're going to geek out on a grape or grape family and hear about all the wild wine things are destined up to. From vineyard experiments to their favorite wine bars. Time for your dosage of the next generation. Hi. Hello. Everyone hope everyone's doing well and is wind up or coughing up or something. Right? Right? So today, I'm actually really enthusiastic, excited. All the things about our topic and our interview is plural today. We have Mateo and Madelena from Celinearo di Sopera. We're gonna hop on super soon. They are two incredibly ambitious and super, super, super cool winemakers. In Tuscany de Chial de Glasgow. So now it's time for some grape facts. And what other grape to talk about? The grape that are two guests today grow. And yes, I know, we already spoke about San Jose in our last episode, I believe, but San Jose being the most planted grape in Italy, because there's a little more attention. Well, I can't say attention, but there's some extra facts. So we're gonna give you some five quick facts on San Jose to get you started before we will welcome our next guest. So first, If I didn't say this already, San Jose, most likely the name comes from Sanvis Jovet or Blood of Jupiter. Now moving into how San Jose grows, which is a little more of the juicy details. We have we have to know that San Jose really expresses Tewar really well. And you can see this now in the new UGA or UGA classifications in county classical, which give more specific community based designation for, these wines because the soils and the overall tower are so different. And you could see it as you taste the different county glasicos. Moving on, we have to assess that Sandeauvise has high acidity and tannins and really thrives in limestone soils, as well as the clay shell, makes the cholesterol soils also found in county glasicos. Third fact, It doesn't grow that well in volcanic soils, unfortunately. I think it has to do with minerals, but I am not the soil scientist right now. Moving on to our next fact. San Jose, Kimmy made in a lot of different styles. Of course, it's under multiple different DOCs and DOCGs, but you can also find it, you know, age and oak, same as steel, both underneath the county classical, or keep going on the county classical, for example, probably because it's the most famous. San Duvez's home is Tuscany. Extra fact there. And finally, San Duvez always has a ruby color. Of course, with the exception as it ages, the color will evolve and change, but it is not a dark colored wine. Alright. We have Mateo and Madelena here. Ciao guys. Ciao. Ciao. How's it going? Where are you guys calling from? Right now? We are calling from Tiagastopra. We are here the winery. We prune all the days. So now we're just home, and that's it. Oh, wow. So, well, it's busy for Yvonne makers during January. For us, it's like January is the worst month of the year. But It's good that you guys are keeping busy. I'm so excited to have both of you on the podcast. I'm so sorry that I only reached out to Matteo because actually it was Michael meltzer that gave me the contacts. And then I was like, I should have reached out to both of you. But thank you, Mateil, for bringing you both on. I'm I'm really excited to talk more about Jiliano Disolopron, and also to learn about you guys. And I have to ask one question here because I'm just confused So don't feel uncomfortable. Are you guys, like, a couple or is it, like, a duo thing? Because I wanted to understand that better. Yeah. This is a me question for every single one, but, actually, we are a duo. Okay. No. I had to ask that because I was like, should I ask what the love story is or is it just the wine love story? Or should I not ask at all? No. It's it's more a wild story thing. Yeah. We were starting together, and we start to make one together. So we always made one together. So it's more simple. Life's better when it's more simple. So tell tell tell us a little bit more about that. The wine love story, the simple wine love story. Okay, Martel. Now it's your tour. I told, Madarina, as Madarina's family, I have this property from, almost a century. And, when we were studying, when making new florence, we started, like, experimenting, pruning and win making here, like, like, a Palestra because, The wine was producing just a bulk wine. So when the vineyard were kicked by other guys, and, we harvested and produced the wine that we sold to other companies. And we decided to start, Battling a little a small amount. This was vintage two thousand sixteen, actually. Just one thousand bottle. And then year after year, we increased this part of wine made for aging at the winery and bottling at the winery. Until, last vintage where we reached the our first goal that was to battle the entire production. That was twenty thousand bottle. That perhaps that really a big goal to reach. Well, congrats on the growth That's incredible. Yeah. So we start doubling the production every we start from one thousand and then the year after two thousand, then four thousand, then eight, and eight of twenty. Yeah. So it was a lot of a lot of work. So do you have a gold number of bottles? Oh, we don't have a good number of battles because, we work with nature. So we we can say our average would be from between twenty and thirty thousand battles depending on the vintage and what the season will offer us. But, yes, the the winery is seven hectares. See, that's the right answer. It's the seven hectares, actually. So it's, under a good farming practice that we try to not stress divine producing a lot, so we produce around three tons, for Hector. And so it's, it's around thirty thousand buses. Yes. The the actual production. Who knows? We we can, plant new vineyards or find new vineyards or just stay like that for now. So to touch on the nature aspect, of course, in in your, Instagram bio, it says organic winery, but we all know organic is a big word. So I want to dive into a little bit more on the sustainability around Juliano di Sopra. What's your approach to the vineyards? And I noticed when I I loved, other than I loved your bio on the end little form talking about love and sensitivity. Thank you. Because I really wanna I wanna dive more into that. I was like, wow. She's speaking to my soul here. Is that, yeah, making wine is you, you have to be really passionate because it's a really hard work. I mean, following the natural is really hard. It's raining and frost, and it's right now, it's super freezing. So, I mean, it's really hard. It's but it's hard in a physical way. So you should be really passionate to make it. If not, better to change work. This, of course. And sensitive because, actually, there are not rules, but you follow your your head, making ferment fermenting grapes and pruning is something yeah. The sensibility is an Italian. It's, the only word you should have to make this job, to my opinion. But, what do you think, a lot? Yes. I think, working with, making wine is something that is, not natural, but, you are like, the, while you make wine, you are like the guardian of your land. So you have to improve it enhanced biodiversity and, trying to, respect as much as as much as you can. What is the life cycle of the plant, not forcing it to produce more than the plant could produce, and, not trying to keep it, too much stress. And, to do this, there are, a lot of factors that, are, like, a complimentary to to the production of wine. Yeah. We we like to say that we are not, natural assistance and not winemakers. So the one thing that we really care that people understand, that nature and to work makes all the ones. I like that a lot. Because it's it kinda balances it out. Right? Because you can't be completely hands off, but you need to also let it grow kind of like a a parent, but less controlling. Yeah. You have to interpret it. Alright. And, that's, I think, why I didn't read what Catalina wrote in his in her inter loop introduction. Yeah. Because we we did say great. Well, I did that purposefully. I can only keep copying off of each other. And so I think that this sensitivity that Montana told about is, like, to, be able to interpret what, like, in our case Avain is asking. Without speaking because plants doesn't speak, but they send messages. And you have to be able to interpret it. What divine wants you to do is, in this way. And what have the vines been telling you to do this past harvest? It depends on the on the scene. This is for starters. The This is a good question. This is a good question. We did we try here to interpret it, but we are not sure about the the result that we have to wait the for the wine. But, The the hardest moment in all the season is to make the decision in which moment to pick a vine. Aroundier. Aroundier. Aroundier. So this is extremely hard to say because when you pick the grapes, the game is started. I started. It's over. It's over. It's over. It's the same moment. So This is the, big, big decision that take, stress has a lot the day before picking. Yeah. I know I can imagine. We start strolling around, tasting grapes, berries. The same, maybe one day more. Okay. This is ready. It's hard. To me, it's the the superior decision. Dan is a Dan is always down the hill, positive way, positive way. I I get what you're saying. You're saying, like, after that point, everything's a little bit easier. Right? Because it's, like, that's the and I have to say, obviously, I worked your Instagrams to the extent I could. And I love the community that you guys have around with your wine, with in your wine making and your winery with your friends. And it's so vibrant and colorful and fashionable. I was like, you guys are just breathing this new life in Tikiyanka Glassico that I've been wanting to see. And, it was one of the things that got me very excited to interview you guys. Yeah. The the the team is is really young. We are all under thirty. I mean, there is just one word that is more than thirty, but more or less, we are super young. We study all together. Every single one of us as, I really is really passionate about making wine. Because here, we are, like, been your own. I mean, there are these, another thing that we like to say that when you arrive here, we're working at Triannali Sopra, you are not just, seller hand, but you are having your own. That is completely different. The the mind you that the energy you're putting is completely different. Yes. At at the end, everyone, should be able to do everything here. So being a smaller reality is that that is important and, lack we are lucky to have found some some guys that, that want to enjoy That wants to learn and enjoy and are smart. No. Absolutely. And then this year, we are more women than men. This is another thing that we're really happy about it. No. That's awesome. It's great. It's really important in the in the wine world, an Italian wine world. But also bringing back that community element, you know, around winemaking and Italian wine, in the history, and also kind of challenging the idea that you know, Italian wine or Italian things are all kind of old. Right? There's people, there's winemakers like you both that are so passionate and are reminding people that, you know, Italian wine is is a is a young person's thing to say, the least. Yes. Absolutely. It's a there is a lot of history, but the there are young people. And this, every every day more common this. And this is a really important to give a good future to Italian wine. And and on that point, have you felt, have you experienced any resistance, you know, being in county classical of all regions, as two young winemakers? Has it been very difficult or easy. It's challenging. It's challenging. And we are lucky that we find in other producers. For example, Michael, that are really helpful for us. They share their experience And, at the same time, we can, change with our, like, younger thinking. This is, like, really important to have other people with more experience that, help you like, in their in the interpretation of a vintage that you have never seen before, and, or, you know, like, winemaking, visions, for Sanjay. And the experiments that, we made every year, sometimes out of the blizzard say, oh, we tried. And, we really liked it. Or, no, we tried. And, we think, another way could be better. And so in this way, we are we're really lucky to find other producers, very welcoming with us. Yeah. I think the old producers here in San Casiano need new links. So maybe this is one reason why they are so welcoming with us. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now, back to the show. So, I mean, that's that's great to hear because I know there's many different opinions in that because, obviously, we don't need to dive into the history of Keandiglassico because you know that much better than I. But I think it's really inspiring to hear that there's that, again, community coming back And so in the future, looking at the future of County Glasgow. What do you both see? What inspires you the most? So County Glasgow is, I think, as a, actually, a bright future. The importance is to try to have, to keep the original originality to each wine and each producers and diversity because, it's a It's a not a very big area, but, there are lots, lots of difference between every place and, almost, we have eleven vineyards, at the wineries. And, every each vineyard has different characteristics and gives different wine. So it's important to preserve this, diversity and not try to make all candy classic or taste like candy class. And I think that, this is the direction even with the new, sub zones that are, like, with Ugas that are now officialized by the consumer still. This is the right direction for, for the appalachian. And then it's all in a producer's hands to continue and, pursue quality. Yes. Yeah. With more you observe, more you can understand. That's the motto. And speaking of diversity, not to change the subject slightly, but I read somewhere that it's all Ares people that work at your winery apart from you, Madelena, the one Libra. And I thought that was really funny. Yeah. The Libra keeps the order. Bring order, Linda. When we start working together, I I I don't ask people what kind of thing they have. But, for just for a case, they are all arrears, and I'm the only one, libra. So this is super I mean, it's funny. No. I I think it's hilarious because you have all this fiery energy and you're, like, I have to balance everyone out. Yeah. It's so Are there any, like, do you have any stories to tell about that? Like, that give an example? I think it's in everyday life for this. Yes. It's an everyday battle. You know, in a fight every day. I mean, they are all It's not fun. It's okay. You can be honest. There's no judgments here. What happens in the winery stays in the winery? Madarina is, a lot reflective. While, for example, me is, I am more, impulsive, maybe, and Matlena brings balance saying, are you sure you want to do this this way? And so I think, a second time is one thing that maybe I will just, do in the in the way, I thought it the first time. So she's pulling you out of the barrels. You jumped in. Exactly. I mean, I I will like work with the areas team because, otherwise, but I think the people that was born under that kind of stars, they're really passionate, and they put a lot of energy and love on in what they are doing. And this is not so common. So, they are really every single one that is working right now with us, they are really, really passionate. And if you'd say, hi, guys, you should do in that way, they really try their best and do something really unique. So I see I don't know if you remember the headline from Jennifer Lopez where she fired all the Virgos on her team. In her dance team. It's like the opposite of that for you. You're like, resume, Ares. Okay. You're hired. Come. Yeah. Because I'm more rational, and, these guys are complete to the opposite. So they they they push me to go on, to be I don't know how to explain, but they are I really they depressed me a lot to make all decisions, all the stuff, all the things. So I like this team. I think it's a good balance. But they had and it's not an easy easy life. It is all I'm surrounded by harris. It's not so easy, but they pushed me to the home. So I love these guys. They sent me a lot. Yeah. They can get they can get a little ahead of. I totally understand though because I have a lot of Ares friends. I've always been, like, had friends that are Ares in there. And there's I'm I I'm a Pisies. I'm Basha, so I'm notoriously, like, doing a lot of things and and can be indecisive sometimes. And they're the ones that are like, make a decision right now. And I'm like, okay. They are all a little bit crazy in a certain way. There is not standard one. They're a little bit crazy. I hear I hear my tail laughing. We say in Italian, fumino, that means, that they are quiet in a certain moment. And then for two minutes, they are completely crazy. And then they come back normal This is bipolar. No. No. No. No. I don't know in English, but it's for me. It's great. Paskins. It's like it's like a little fire. Right? Like, because like a fuma is like a smoke. Like, for five means and then, oh, yeah. It's no. No. I'm I'm I'm calm. I say what? It's like, you just burned down the house. Yes. Yes. They are dry. That's so funny. But at the end of the day, it looks like it worked well. So you have all the little Fumini running around, but they they get the job done. Yes. That's true. It was really awesome to have you guys on here and chat a bit. I I'm I wish I I got to meet you guys before this in person, but maybe one day. Is there anything else you want to add to wrap this up? To end with a bang, as we say in English. Which kind of bomb? But, No pressure. I mean, leave it to the Ares so Ares can do the bomb. Come on, mateo. If you if you mention a fairy tale, okay, our team, I am I don't know. You you you know the elephants that they are small and they start yelling and around the forest, No pressure, guys. It's okay. I think your story and everything is impressive enough. And also just something I need to add is before we go is you guys have the best website of any Italian winery. Love it. Great and easy to navigate. No, seriously. I'm not making that up. It it's like no lagging. It has beautiful artwork, so applause. Thank you. We think we it's a big man. It is true to update, you know, we should update just a little bit because the picture sometimes of the the both two page are hold, but the idea was to make something really easy. Just like a page to find the number to call us. No. No. I think it's it's great. I've battled many of websites, and I'm not trying to be rude to other people, but yours is is excellent. And I love the artwork. Yeah. Just the future. You guys are the future. I love it. The the the image that there is on the web the the painting is made by the same artist that make also our label, our country class label as the Borgo, on the phone, and this is the same guy that did it. Oh, I I I saw. He's a doctor, actually, but professional is a painter. Is he also local? Yeah. He's from Florence, in the in the Grenolo, in Italian. Oh, it under it's an endocrinologist. I don't know in English. So he's a doctor, a doctor. And for passion, he's making and painting, So and also, there is, my sister's dog on on the label that is Alice is a dachshund. Love those dogs. It's so cute. No. There is no one. Yeah. Yeah. I really love that dachshund. So yeah. Because, Alicia, actually, two years ago, as passed away. So we put, Alice on the label just to honor. Right now, I will take another one. So and my goal, Alicia. Yeah. We call Alicia the bird. So my obsession for Susice dog is going on. Yeah. You're gonna have a little coat of our arms with a dachshund on it. No. They are too funny. To the family and two series. It's two series and finding the same way. But that's that's, like, kind of reflective on your your winery, you know? It's, like, it's it's you guys are serious, but it's super fun. And it's super alive and Yeah. It makes people wanna drink wine and just be happy. I mean, I I I never met you guys, and I I looked at it, and that's how I felt. So I think you're doing a good job. Yes. You should count these best. One day. When you have time. Oh, definitely. I I I would love to. I I love I love, that area. I actually, my aunt lives in Sienna, so I'm not far sometimes. So I definitely will give you guys a call. Well, so we're coming up at time. I would love to talk to you guys. You guys are so cool, and I'm so happy you got on the podcast. So again, Matel and Madelena from Cylignano di Sopra. Go check them out. They also have an Agriturismo and a really functional website. That we will link on Instagram and all that jazz because we love a good website. Again, thank you so much guys. I hope you guys have a beautiful day and awesome pruning time. You too. As always, a big Roxy for hanging out with me today, remember you can catch me every Sunday on the Italian wine podcast. Available anywhere, you can get your pops.