Ep. 1368 Massimiliano Menon | The Next Generation

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to the next generation. I'm Victoria Chacha, join me as we chat with young Italian wine people shaking up the wine scene. We're going to geek out on a grape or grape family and hear about all the wild wine things are guesstering up to. From vineyard experiments to their favorite wine bars. Hello, everyone. It is time for the next generation podcast. And I'm sure you knew that already because you clicked the button and are listening. Uh-huh. Well, today, you're in for a little Venetian treat, I would say, with our grape family or grape group that we'll be discovering. And also our guest. We have Masimiliano Menon coming on, a via student, and also someone I know from New York so friendly face, which is very nice to have a guest on that You haven't seen in a while. So it's super fun. But before that, we're gonna go right into the Italian wine, unplugged two point o book, as you know, my Bible of Great Knowledge, and it will be your Bible, or it might be your Bible soon. I can't be the missionary necessarily of this book, but I kinda am with this podcast as you kinda know. So maybe I am. And moving on, you might be able to guess the group I'm going to talk about Not because it's strictly Venetia, but because the Venetians played a big role in why this great group or great families you'd like to call it made their way around Italy. And that's Malvasia. Malazia, I would say it's better to say group because genetically speaking, most of the grapes that fall under the Malazia category of the group aren't actually genetically related. They're unrelated. They just share the name. And as we'll learn in this lovely lovely book that I have in front of me, Malazia, all of them are distinctly different, almost. And it is impossible to find a common trait that unites the wines made with these varieties. So there are a couple that actually are, you know, related, like, and but they're not identical. They're just linked genetically. Let's call them cousins. But back to a bit more facts on Malvasia, we know that Malvasia used to be very, very, very popular back in the fourteenth century through to the seventeenth century. Again, thanks to those seafaring Venetians who dominated the Mediterranean Sea and traded Malvasia wine with tremendous success. So that's how it reached all different places throughout Italy as we will learn in the following episodes as I dive into each grape varietal. So these malvasia varieties given their diversity can span from non aromatic to aromatic red to white, sparkling and still, sweet and dry. And what may serve as a study aid is that the following pairs of Malazia are region specific, and the first often beats the second for the quality of the wines it gives. Listen carefully. So white buried Malazia de Latu and Malazia Bianca di can via are found mostly a Matu. Red buried, and in Piedmont, Malazia di Scirano and Malazia di Casorso are both better than Malazia Nerelunga. Wow. It is better than. Sorry, Malazia Nerelunga. Now, rather than confuse you by saying Malvaziel one more time, we're gonna move on to our interview with the Venetian himself, Massey. And tell Massey, welcome to the Italian White podcast. How are you feeling today? I'm feeling pretty good about being extremely congested. So I'm sorry for my for my accent. I'm sorry for my accent. Are you talking about your congestion or your Venetian accent? Both my German German French accents. German French. Everybody says I'm from France because of my art. Really? Mhmm. Yeah. Interesting. Like in New York, back in New York? Back in New York, and I got really offended. Yeah. Can I imagine? You don't wanna tell your talent that they sounds French. But as we both know, the accents in the Venator are very particular. Right. Different. Yeah. And you're originally from Venice? I am indeed. Like Venice, Venice. Venice, one time. No Venice, Venice. Oh. I'm from Venice. That's what we say to people. Oh, Okay. Yes. Because they always ask, are you from Venice, Venice? I'm from Venice once. Yes. I was born and you grew up in the city center. Wow. So we learned one thing today that the Venetian people are sassy. Thank you. We think about some attitudes. No. I love it. Actually, I just read an article today about how the mayor of Venice called, there's some guy that jumped off a three story building into the canal. I've seen that video. Yes. And the mayor called him an idiot and said, he's like, I'm gonna put this van in jail. It's on our hands. Yes. Yeah. I I was posted, like, I was gonna wanna come find this lady. We actually went from having a mayor to a Sheriff. Oh. Really? Yes. Really? Yes. From one side to the other one. Okay. Let's not get into politics. Yeah. I was about to say that's a really interesting topic that we probably should avoid. Okay. Even though I would love to talk about it all fair. Sorry, guys. But moving back to wine, so Masi is from Venice, once City Center. He moved from that city to New York City, right? Some there is probably Yeah. Certainly. Yeah. Correct. I mean, you can fill in the blanks for me. But you're based in New York now. What do you got to there? I do work in wine. I'm lucky enough to have a job. Be happy. Sorry. You said that, like, you're, like, by the way, I work in wine. If you didn't know, how did you end up on this podcast? That's true. Sorry. I'm actually part of the wine team. At Babo, a restaurant in New York City in the greenwich village Mhmm. Owned by the bastianich family. Cool. Awesome. Babo's great. Babo's great. We do have at the cookie side of the venetian, the cockiness, comes out. And I'm proud to say that we have the biggest Italian wine list in New York City, probably United States. Would you represent the whole peninsula north to south every region? Wow. And what kind of numbers are we talking? Big numbers. Big numbers. I'm not talking about the money. I'm talking about I don't know the numbers. You can't prove it. There's no facts. I can't prove it. It's just the biggest. You have to go to Babo to find out. Correct. Oh, that's Bobo's great. I haven't I've been there only once, and it was a while ago. But I loved I mean, it's it's like an institution. So that's so that's so awesome. Yeah. It is. I'm I'm I'm I'm really lucky. I'm here. I'm happy to somehow represent them. Mhmm. And perhaps go back with the, title that wine ambassador. Yeah. Absolutely. That would be amazing. Are you gonna come and sing with Joe during Vin Italy? Let's say he's a super busy man. So No. He's having it. Do you know about the work the event he's doing? I know he's singing and playing guitar with a band. Mhmm. No. But as As well as rep I mean, as well as representing his wines and his winery. Yeah. Absolutely. But they're doing this event at Van Italy called, or Singujo. And he's because he has his new book, he's picking wine to pair with songs. And then he's inviting he's asking the audience to come and sing with him. I mean, if you wanna represent Babo, I think that's your that's your opportunity. I'm a really bad singer, and, I don't play any instruments. I'm sorry. I'll see after I'm sorry, don't. I'm sure there's some singing that comes out. Anyways. So You're here for Via. You're a potential ambassador still because the exam is tomorrow. So how did you find out about Via? How did you get here? Good good question. It's just like really prestigious, I guess, qualification. And be a babo, had this, like, full emotions with Italian wines, and being abroad for that many years, like, probably for the past sixteen years. And now I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity to come back to Italy way more often than before. I had that need to reconnect to my people, my region, my city, and obviously drink some good Italian wine So that's how I heard about Via. Awesome. That must be so special for you to do this in your home region and be able to kind of be a a representative in that way. I agree. I I think I might have an advantage, the rest of the people. I'm also, Italian certified somewhere there, like, eyes, in that kind of background. But, yeah, I'm really proud that the day I was at a tasting in in Jazena. And they asked me what do you do? I'm literally, I'm a wine ambassador, in general. Like, I like to tell stories about people, about cool people. That makes people happy. Yeah. And so, like, what's one thing that, like, living in New York City, you miss the most about home, like in Venice? That's a good question. I miss the beauty. I miss the beauty of my country. Yeah. A beauty. We're surrounded by beauty, beautiful people, beauty, beauty, beauty. Yeah. No. It's true. Like, Italians are the hedonists of the world. They they represent it all, and and know it's definitely I think It it's it's and it's so layered. You know, it's it's it's, of course, like, the buildings, the architecture, but it's all like the flow, and it's so unique everywhere you go. You know, I haven't been to Venice since I was five. And now I'm, like, an hour away. And you haven't been yet. No. Should go together then. Oh my god. Let's go. Get it drank the it's some chiketi, drink some good, ombre. Oh my gosh. I'm down. I now know the train to get there. So Yeah. It's like an hour. It's so easy. Yes. I need to do one of those whiz of the Bakken, background tour. Yeah. We can do background tour as well. We don't need a tour. No. I don't need a tour. Yeah. And you're just gonna be the tour guide. Yeah. But recently, the background tour became, like, very, like, loud get drunk sort of like Oh, like obnoxious, like, messy. Yeah. Correct. I'm American, but I'm not that kind of American. You know, that kind of messy, but you're from New Jersey. Yeah. You know, there's chaos in my blood. Oh, oh, okay. But I'm not messy. Like we're just chaotic. As an Italian American. Yes. But you mentioned she was on Italian? What's her American? Italian American. Well, because I'm American before I'm Italian. You're Italian before you're American. Sure. So I I won't so yeah. But I'm also then you add the Jersey Wow. Okay. That's another Sterset. That's another podcast. Yes. That and then to know your opinions on it all. Yeah. The man that seems French, but is actually from Venice Singular. There you go. Oh, no. I I love it. I love how, like, you're the places you're from really, like, define you and you kinda, like, grow with the new places you go, and it and everything kinda comes back. Right? Like, yeah. It was, like, so weird. I was interviewing someone else and she works. For the comp this company that's, well, I think it's now run by this guy I, like, grew up with. And I was like, that's so random. You know what I mean? I'm like, niger and Verona. And then, like, all these are crazy things. I don't know. It's fantastic. But, obviously, you have your exam tomorrow. Mhmm. How you feeling? I think good. I I'm not stressed at all. I go with the flow, it's been a great, great experience. I tell all my audience and my followers, all those millions. And I'll just send it to the podcast. Hashtag Vino Navios, but I don't know. It's been great. Just, like, just to see, the faces are the the incredibly melting pot diversity. Now, we have, like, from Singapore, Russia, and China. We go Turkey, Spain, we go Holland, Italy, United States, of course. Like, yeah, that's great. No. I I agree. And especially, like, for me being, like, working, I I don't even know who's part of the group because it's such a great. Like, amazing. And from your side, that's what? Well, I'm like, oh, you're in the group because there's a lot of people. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, that's so cool. And, like, everyone has such, like, a funny little way of, like, connecting in a story. Yeah. Lovely background is my interesting people. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I that's honestly, like, what makes VSO great is is the community. Obviously being an ambassador and the knowledge, of course. That's the cherry on top of the cake. Yeah. But I think it's, It's a great experience. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But we can get back to the Venice discussion because I wanted to ask you. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp. For fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now, back to the show. About Venetian food, not to like Oh, for it. Yeah. Really just detour again because I can't not think about food. It's a problem, especially with wine that won't. But, like, what's your favorite food and wine pairing? Like, Venetian. Venetian. It has to be Venetian. Yes. Not No Vidal names there. Sorry. Right. Represent in, Venice, not the Ven at all. Yeah. There's one thing I love. It's, obviously seafood. Predominantly, the cuisine in Venice, it's, it's seafood based. And I would say canocha. So Chikale de Made or they're called India Adriatic. Actually, you can find them only in the Adriatic. Yes. But mantis shrimps, it's they're very hard to find abroad. But they're just like gudges. You don't need to do that many things. You just boil them in really hot water, and it's a pain in beep to actually clean them. It takes a lot of time. Some Pazley Olivoy, and that just gorgeous. Oh, yeah. Your French is coming out now. Just like a tribe, Malazia. Yeah, that would be the the best full name wine pairings ever. Like Which kind of Malazia? With different names? I I I agree. I agree with you. Thank you. I'm actually doing the wine ambassador. I just realized. You're just highly generic. No. I think, like, obviously born and raised in venues, North East side of Italy, I'm a really good supporter of Carso in general. Malvasia in general as a group as a family, but I will say, Malvasia from Carso, microphone, some age, twenty fifteen, sixteen, seventeen. We're pulling out vintages. Cool. Yeah. That's the wrong side of me. It comes out. And, but yeah, it's all about that stupidity, that mouth filling, That that's also my to go wine, actually. Yeah. I love those melazias, Ebola's. Yeah. I'm a white drinker. I like to drink a lot. Okay. Do we know that? For our Venice trip. Like, we will No. That's how you went. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I think It might turn into a back out tour. I know. And you're just like, we are the messy ones. We are the messy ones. I think a lot of people that work in the wine industry, like, are we're not I don't think it's denial maybe it is denial where it's like we know we drink a lot, but we're kind of in denial of how messy of drinkers we can be. We try to be like, oh, we're not like that. Like pinkies up, but in reality, we are absolutely. Yeah. It's, it gets a little crazy, but so is there like a place, like, particularly in Venice that you like to go? Like a special like a restaurant or like a or there are, like, just so many places to pop in that you love? I would say that so many. Lately recently, they do really the functions on, like, quality ingredients. And I'm always saying Venice. We thank a place called La Mercadito and now closed now, but Venny's genova been having that trading background and heritage in terms of wines has always been two, three, four, ten thousand steps in front of everybody else. Yeah. In terms of quality. So if you think papa as well, natural wines, wines with, like, sustainable indigenous east, we've been always drinking really, really, really well. Obviously, we drink, spritz. I'm not saying any brands, but yeah. So, yeah, there are so many places. There are a couple of places. Probably one to kinda do any names. So it's Yeah. You're allowed to. Yeah. Yeah. We want people to get the the info from you. You're the tour guide. Are we getting paid as well? No. I mean, you can ask You can ask for a guy. Well, then you'll stop and you'd be like, have the hurt have you heard the podcast? No. I mean, I I actually listened to the podcast. No. I like the very, not only the radar places, which is really tough in in venues because it's extremely touristic. So you're gonna find, you're not gonna find your spot. You know, I like to go to a place and get that TP core, I would say, things that you get, like, very, like, the onion, the half head with the anchovies on top, and the Moscardino, which is like a tiny octopus that you only find in Venice. The bakalama and takalto. So, very, very simple rustic. I like those kind of, food if I had to go for, like, aperitif. And then, probably there is one that we like recently, I would say Vinovedo. For Namentalia or Mazzini. It's, one of the destination to go for drinking partying, having dinner, after dinner as well. It's just like this strict It's literally like Arriba, on a fundamental, nicanarejo section of any. So it's the northern parts. So Cool. The food. I just imagine all those good, like, little seafood, like, a lot of stock fish, like, all that Oh, yes. No. Yeah. That no. It's really about I think a lot of people don't think about that, about the how important I can't say they don't think about it. That sounds mean, but, like, like, it's just not something you think about often in the sense, like, of the trading courts in, you know, Genoa and Venice, like, really and not even just those areas, like, really controlling how different grapes slash wines and foods have, like, traveled throughout Italy. And, like, how much the the nations really defined a lot of that. I mean, you guys did. I hate to say it, but since I come from well, I don't I don't come from when my family comes from the region where Rome is, so it's, like, more like another. That's another cup of tea. Another podcast. But, yeah, but I do have to ask you something that's like, culturally speaking. When you say Venetian, and I'm saying in, in English, because you know how, like, people will say they're, you know, toscano of Tuscany. Sure. Sure. But when you say of the Venetto, if you say Venetto, to me, Venetia means you're from Venice. Not the genital, or is it inter can you, like, use both? You mean, it was, like, interchangable? Interchangeable. Yes. I would say there is a, general identity. Yes. And we used to be a republic, like, the first republic in the world. Mhmm. And so I think we do have an idea of being venetian Right? And if you think about Bergamo as well, like the way they tow, it's really similar to us. And, we use that trading posts all over the, the land, so but all seem patriotic. So, like, they don't make sure of course like you just mentioned. But probably been from the island. When you say you are a venetian, you should be from Venice from the island. I knew that was coming. Yes. No. It's it's it's actually something that really confuses me sometimes because, like, it, but also reminds you how, like, prev provincial Italy is in the sense of how people really go by their locality. In a lot of ways. Yeah. There's loads of companyism and Yeah. You know, you're really proud from where you're from. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. It's but it's interesting then you have to translate and you feel this way more than me because you're Italian going to America. It's like translating that to English is is an interesting concept. I know that's not Well, it's related to Italian wine podcast. It's related to wine because if we're talking about wines in the Venatore, gotta scale it down. Because for me, I feel like Oh, obviously, but on as very different from Venice, but then they, like, share some things. And I'm only a newbie here for, like, seven months. So I'm only in that. Yes. But, yeah, it's it's it's fun. It's cute. So now we're winding down. I'm gonna kick you out of the podcast. Oh, finally. Oh, okay. You can go now, Massey. The door isn't locked. I want to ask you a very important question for the next generation podcast Oh, damn. Okay. As a young man in New York selling Italian wines as a Psalm. How are you going to use Via as a platform to make young folks drink more Italian wine? Like, how do you feel what's your perspective on like, the younger generations drinking Italian white. That's, that's complicated. That's really hard to answer. Thank you for the thank you for the question. You can answer the first part of it. Okay. I've been working abroad in different markets, I would say, in United States, it's very different. Mhmm. It's somehow brands are really important, not just in terms of light labels, but terms of like messages, things such as things like dot net zero zero. Nowadays are really important. But there's no connection and in relation, no links with the minification process, the use of selected or indigenous east. So I think Via gives you that tools and allows yourself to translate in in a more easiest way as well, but to give, to to explain that, but also to make understand that behind that label, we do love this job because this is a people industry. Mhmm. And it's related to human beings. And it's very strong related with hospitality as well. We're all in the same. Mhmm. So you need to be able to make people understand where that wine is from. Who made it? There's a reason behind it. The gray variety. You make them understand about the climate. And hopefully, you're so good in your job the next day, that person, that client, sitting at the table, or that person behind the desk, getting a bottle of wine, in a wine shop, or whatever your location or situation is just buy a flight, straight, return tickets, New York City to Venice, so Rome. So that's the achievement. That's the goal. I would say. Absolutely. I I think you bring up an important point is that, like, the moment that a cuss, you know, a client, a customer sits down, at a table or goes to a wine bar, they're immediately engaging in that community and their part. They're they're connecting with that wine maker. Whether they realize it or not and, like, being able to become more open to that connection and realize how valuable it is. And important to sustain, you know, not just the future of Italian wine, but, like, our earth, especially, you know, these smaller producers that rely obviously on selling their wine for a living, but also have these valuable stories. And and, we wanna keep them, you know, around and doing, like, the the things they do best. And And keeping them around perhaps next time, they're gonna join us on the back or tour. Oh, my gosh. Yes. That would be great. That would be great. So, well, it's always fun when you have a wine maker with you doing like Oh, yeah. It's like, it's it's the best. Well, I'm so happy you decided to You accepted my offer to be on the podcast today. I accept your yeah. Thank you, actually. I'm really Harnold. I'm really happy to be here. Yeah. Awesome. Also, cause I listen to Italian wine podcast every day. No, you don't. Let's lie. Sorry. I was about to say. I was like, please don't because if you heard all my podcasts, it'd just be like, I'll be like, okay, Massey, like He's a stalker. Are you stalking me? I'm like, oh, okay. We got a super fan on the pod today. Oh, well, I will see you in Venice. Totally. And I wish you the best of luck on your exam. Thing across, and, and thank you very much. Thank you. And best of luck to all the students listen to this after their exam and already know their results. But alright. Chow, guys. As always, a big drops here for hanging out with me today. Remember, you can catch me every Sunday on the Italian online podcast. Available anywhere, you can get your pods.