Ep. 1404 Valentin Bufolin | The Next Generation

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to the next generation. I'm Victoria Chacha, join me as we chat with young Italian wine people shaking up the wine scene. We're going to geek out on a grape or grape fam and then hear about all the wild wine things are destined up to. From vineyard experiments to their favorite wine bars. Hello, everyone. It's time again for a little bit of, the next generation podcast. You're tuning in. I'm happy to have you. And we are still here doing some lovely interviews in the midst of the Vinitzley marathon, and it is exciting, exciting time to be alive. I actually I love seeing it on us. So overflowing with people. Probably read my bio. I am from North Jersey, which is known for one thing. Traffic. I mean, it's a lot of people. No. I don't like traffic. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying I'm used to chaos. I lived in New York for a while. I mean, everyone is a busy city, but it's New York. We don't need to explain that animal. So it's nice. And today, we're gonna finish talking about the Greco group, the second main grape in that group that you should know. And if you haven't been tuning in, go back to the last couple episodes, and we talk about Greco. All the juiciness from the Italian wine, unplugged two point o book. If I haven't said that already a million times, you gotta get it. Honestly, this book is giant and full of all the juicy great details you need. And I'm learning with you guys, to be honest, because let's be real who has time to read a whole book even during your job. But it's great because it's so surprising, exciting, and that's why I'm in this industry, and that's why you're listening to me. I hope because you're excited about wine. Yeah. So, and besides Greco today, we have the wonderful Via Student Valentin on the pod. He's in the studio today. We're gonna chat with him about all his wine things. He's from Slovakia, which is not far from Italian. We'll get into that. So first, Greco Bianco. So like I said, reiterating this a million, million, million, million, million, million, million, times. Greco Yanko is a great in the Graco group. Fridays in the Graco group are unrelated. That's why it's on a family. So Greco Bianco. It's not Greco. So it's not the same grape that's in Greco. It is Greco Bianco. So again, the first word in the book says confusion abounds and trying to sift through the story of Greco Bianco. Confusion is the name of the game with Greco. Sorry. It's not always Greek. It's not Greek to me, moving on. Greco Bianco is the name of a Greek variety with many misleading synonyms and false friends, but Greco de Bianco is the name of a DOC and Calabrio responsible for making ripe honeyed air dried wines from the Greco, Bianco grape. So we're in Calabrio now. Okay? Caracogitufo's in Campania, separate. Separate keep it out of your mind. Check it out of your mind right now if you're thinking about it. We're in Greco Bianco land. Sounds great. Moving on. So also known as Greco de Gerache. See, I don't know that. Greco Bianco has been proven to be the same grape as Malazia de Lipari or Malazia di sardania and other Malazian name grapes Although, once again, the great varieties in question have very different morphologic appearances and give very different wines, making it difficult for many to accept that they truly are one in the same way despite what the DNA test showed. So you just had your whole head spin there with me is that Grecobianco is actually similar to three or more Malvasia varieties. Okay? So digest that. So moving on, additional confusion stems from the fact that the national registry has not yet recognized this relationship and still maintains a separate entry for Males Yedi Leipuri, and perhaps not reasonably given that the two grapes and wines have nothing to do with each other. So remember, DNA, there's one thing in Italy. There's DNA that says something, and then that is what the great growers in the white paper say because culture is definitely as we know. And if you know something and you feel it in your heart, and honestly, in its tradition, not gonna wanna call something Malvasia, especially if it's from some other part of the country that you have no relationship with. So, you know, it's not surprising, and I I physically buy it. So, lastly, just to let you know, Greco Bianco Dichiro is not the same as Greco Bianco, but rather the same as another Calabrian variety called Guardo Valle as our graco bianco de la mezia Terme and graco bianco de Donichi. See, I'm really learning right now. Another imposter, is actually the grape called Peccarello. And lastly, Grecco Bianco de polino is identical to Montego Bianco. So I think you should go back and listen to that five times over. Because, essentially, Gresco Bianco is not related to most other Gresco Bianco's in Calabia. And I think it's time to start our interview with the loveliest Valentino. And Chow Valentino, welcome to the next generation. How's life? Are you feeling? Honestly, I don't know yet. I know your fate will be in an hour. Is it an hour or two? Yeah. It's three zero six. Oh, Oh. Oh. And she was rising. You know? Yeah. Because you're in negroni time right now. So really You know what? I just had the negroni to to to lower a bit of tension. Was that your first time doing the Via program? No. Actually, it's my second. Ah, so it's higher, the tension. Yeah, it imagined the intensity this morning. It was like, come on. What's gonna be? Where's it gonna go? Did I study enough? You know, you come with with an an idea or maybe with an impression where it can go, but you never know. You never know. And then it's also Italian wine where there's so many crazy details And I was telling a group because I did Via, and I failed as everyone knows now on this podcast, and I will take it again. I will be in your place. Oh, good enough for that, you know, because it's like go for it. It's but it's an insanely hard test. And I made a joke to a couple other students yesterday that I remember on the test, they asked us about someone named Meredith. And I will never I don't even remember what the reference was, but me and my group were like, we got out of the exam, and I was like, who the hell is Meredith? And they all started laughing like, I had no idea who she was. I'm like, is it like a winemaker's, you know, mistress? Is it like, you know? You're like, I don't know. Like, I never New so that's like the I think that is a perfect example of how, like Yeah. This is what you can expect to be asked. Like, you know, expect anything. I need it. It can be anything. I know. And I think, I mean, It's the beauty and the bane of the exam, and then also of Italian wine is it's like there's it's beautiful how much there is, and then it's like a bane where you're, like, put to whenever you're, like, tested on it, you're, like, oh my god. Okay. But, yeah, no, really. That that's the beauty of Italian wine. Mhmm. There is so much to it in all in all directions. It's so beautiful and and and the same time. So, like, frightening. Mhmm. Because there's a lot. Yeah. And it's immensity. And it's like I mean, it keeps you awake and on your feet. And it I mean, it brings you to very beautiful places like verona. Maybe not little enough yet because this is more industrial. Okay. But there's there's nice places around Corona. So, you know, and the people are nice. And you guys are amazing. So Oh, thank you. We try. We really try. We are we're like little soldiers running around trying to make this all happen because, you know, we had the Via and then next we have five star and then we have opera wine and then Vin Italy, which is the real tsunami that just crashes down is, like, yeah, but I'm excited. You know, you guys are really doing it all an amazing job. Thank you. It means a lot. Is Nagodone your, like, drink of choice? Well, cocktail? I'm I'm a guy who who, here in them, likes to experiment on cocktails. I was also the the guy who won the finals of the Somilia Championship of Slovenia suggested the cocktail. And it was a negroni. Really? Over something. They were asking me, like, Just a cocktail or no. I said, you know, I presented to a wine and a cocktail. It's up to you. I suggest both because of these, these, these, and these. So, you know, and negroni was born in Italy. So it it's again keeping it keeping it lower. Local Italian. Exactly. So my deepest and serious apologies. I didn't let you have the floor to explain you. No. It's good. Valentin. Who is Valentin. So I know that you are from Slovenia. Right? Small country just close to Italy. Yes. You're neighbors with Italy. What's your wine story? Uh-huh. Yeah. Well, I grew up with a small vineyard. We made just enough wine to drink it by ourselves. Obviously, I was not drinking it when I was a kid, you know. But I was making it, so I have some experience with that. And, this is basically this was my first contact wine. Then, honestly, I was not drinking up until when I was twenty or something. Mhmm. Then I went, I went to I said, okay. The this word of wine, it's always intriguing what's happening know, I was watching some movies, like, this is this and this from this and this vintage, like, you know, I was like, whoa, oh, okay. How how how he can tell them? And this is what drove me to to to start learning about why honestly. Oh, that's that's so beautiful. So did you do you know which grapes you were working with when you're like helping your family make wine? I can imagine, honestly, because they were planted by my grandfather who didn't know what he was planting. Honestly, you know, yeah, especially in slovenia where you're allowed to have whatever you want for own consumption. And, you know, we we made two bricks for years. Wow. And this is what it lasted for a for a year and something, you know. And it was a mix. I think we had some, honestly, I think we had some glare in it. Somebody and, there was some alvazir also. So, you know, we were keeping it close to the Were you able to detect all those? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. When I was a kiwi, it's just like Why do I need to get up so early to go and pick this wine? I would like so much to sleep just a little bit longer. Yeah. And then when you're an adult, you're like, if only I could just be a vineyard isolated from everyone. Yeah. Just leave me alone. You know, me and myself, me and my vineyard. I will wake up at five. I don't care. Yeah. Yeah. I think I think, like, I mean, that's a whole other topic, but I think it's so funny how when as you get older, you, like, come more closely to your inner child and those little things that make you so happy. Yeah. And, like, for me, moving to Italy, I used to come to Italy every summer since I was very little. And it's crazy how, like, there's very, like, simple things, especially foods that give me, like, like, I can literally eat, like, pizza salsa or like a pizza, like, in anywhere. I can be doing nothing all day, but I eat that in the nostalgia. Walton all day, like, in the good sense, like, in the, like, the memories. Mhmm. And I was like, I am fine. If I could just read and eat this all day. Just everything tastes better. Honestly. I mean, you know, I know I know what you mean. It's something in the air. I think it's because like food is such a social act here. Yeah. And even if you are eating alone, you're like part of this kind of you're part of this environment. This is changed. So It it's actually in Oh, yeah. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. But it is different. I will say from, like, my experience because I It'll be so regional and even more soaks of the provincial talent level. It is really different where you go. I wouldn't say like a good or bad way. I would just say in the way things feel, but it it does always taste better. I will say. Okay. But I think it it's very Like, it tastes better but in different ways. Yeah. Yeah. But still, it it tastes better than your home country to Yes. You know, it's when you're home, you're home, but you you you usually Mhmm. Speaking from my point Yeah. Of course. Yeah. And I see it, you know, salsa tastes better from, you know, when I was coming from if I go to Italy, salsa is better than eating it where I live now. Mhmm. You know, it's just it has something to do, of course, with the connections you had with your child memories and all of that. But there is something more to it. I think there is a zing with Italian stuff that just keeps on driving you somewhere. You know, Yeah. No. You're right. It's inspirational. And I think that bit of like Italian, like the hedonism that's in. It's like so definitive of this country. It's like it's in everything and I especially with the food because I you know, you're right. And for me, I think it's like when you're sitting in, you know, actually a perfect example of this for me is eating like pizza napoletana is like there's some neapolitan pizzas in Italy that aren't great. Yeah. However, when you're like seated in a in in in one of the spots in Italy and like you know, it's super, you know, you know, nonchalant, cool. You have a banana beer or something. Even if you've had better Nepal pizza in New York or wherever, it's still, like, weirdly taste better. Like, it's not the taste. It's like the entire thing where you're just And and also, it's it's much more affordable than New York City. Yeah. Which is like fifteen, dollars for, you know, whatever. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now, back to the show. But that's how I feel about it. Because I was thinking about this last night, like, we ordered pizza, me and my, housemates. And it was, like, fine. Like, it it was, like, pretty mediocre in the Apollo pizza. But like something about all of us, like, top speaking and telling sitting in this, like, our table and, like, you know, just I was like, this is the best. Yeah. Just bringing memories after last year's exam, you know, I went to pizza just behind the I don't wanna But there's there's a good place here. Oh, a Sabrito. I I don't remember. No. No. Or to to the other side. Wait. So you walk out to your left or right. When you exit, Verona Fierre, you go left. To the crossroad. Mhmm. And right after the the the traffic sign, you you turn left. Mhmm. And it's like a couple of hundred meters and you're there. So but nothing as compared to the pizza I had in, Salerno, a couple of months ago. There is a guy. It's Karminucha. Mhmm. The guy, he died a couple of years ago, but the the the mayor of Naples came to give him respects on on the, yeah, it is amazing. And and, you know, that that's purely the southern way of, you know, you go there. You get, like, you know, your number is, thirty something. There is plastic chair, plastic table. They give you whatever you have, like, a godzilla or or or or a beer or something with a plastic, cup. When you call, you just come and grab your pizza and and the pizza came not on a plate. It came on this, oiled paper. Oh, yeah. So you just grab the paper. No. No. No. No. No. Nothing. You know, you just ate it by hand, but the taste was amazing. Well, you're So I don't know. Like, first of all, the the land there. I mean, you have that's an area of, Italy where you have, like, every all the best things. You have amazing tomatoes. You have them seafood. You have the mozzarella de multifala. I have, like, so my first, like, real boyfriend his family was from the province of Sedano. Oh, man. So I have like these crazy fond memories. We we went a few times to visit his family, and it's actually so funny. I'm so happy I'm telling you this little background. And so the town was right near Batibalia, which is really famous for mozzarella buffalo. Yeah. So, like, his uncle would, like, give us the mozzarella like fresh, which was first great thing. Second was at night, there's this pub in town, and it was like an Irish themed pub. Like, you know, with all dark wood, but you're in the middle of like, Salerno, like, the province, like, middle, like, in the mountains, you know, right? Yeah. In the middle of nowhere, but Exactly. And you're in there and you're I in Ireland and then obviously the guy opens his mouth and it's straight up the dialect. Yeah. I am definitely somewhere in Seattle. And then he's like, it's pizza place there. And and my, boyfriend at the time was like, the pizza is so good here. And I'm just like, I I was so mentally confused because I was like, right now I'm inside this pub that, like, looks like kinda Ireland, but I'm in Sladdlers. Okay. And I ordered it was so good. And I was just like, this is Italy. Like, this is, like, really Italy where it's, like, every, like, you know, stereotype people think it's, like, not really, like, you know, what we see on Instagram and what people put out there is, like, so over, like, you know, like romanticized. I don't know. But really, really, is, like, you're gonna not understand half of things the guy is saying to you at the airport. You're gonna I have to be half his Garbato. Yes. And then you're they're gonna you're gonna be in and watching them like Italians maybe drinking Guinness near you. And you're gonna say what? And then you have a green coffee. Why? Yeah. Yeah. You're just like, all sorts of no. Yeah. No. But then you eat the pizza and you're like, yes. I agree with you. But that's the beautiful part of, you know, that that that's the, you know, the the French have this sour fire. Mhmm. That's I think, you know, we we need to find the, terminal for Italian. Yes. Yeah. I mean, like, I we do have the, Yeah. But but it's not because, you know, Fariente means doing nothing. Yeah. It has it's a bit. It has that kind of could be seen as negative in a way. Yeah. Like that kind of mannana attitude that people like to say about Southern Europe and I I so I like it. I feel like, for me is something in the summer in Italy. Yeah. It's like me on a Latino in the summer. Yeah. Not doing anything. Yeah. But during the, you know, the regular, you know, work days, I think, you know, we do need to find that because know, it only is a modern country. You know, people are like, I think people sometimes forget especially. They they think, like, oh, the Italians are always up at a Tivo. They're always doing this. And I'm like, no. People like, I have, like, normal wives. Let's see. You know? And, like, yeah, sure there is that integral part, like, after there is more of that relaxed, like you're saying. But you do need to find a phrase that, like, brings it all together. Yeah. But this is this dolce, dolce, dolce, maybe or something like that, you know? I still think even even if you say like, you know, people just think of aperitivo immediately, I think that aperitivo is still something you you still tend to do something on the aperitivo. It's not just about the aperitivo. Exactly. You know, you you you you I I look at it They are social. They meet. They speak. They do actually, I think the majority of the things are done over an appetitivo. Exactly. Yeah. No. No. You're right. I think, and which is really great not to break this in, but like, similarly in, like, Korean culture and Chinese like a business Yeah. Is often conducted with food and events and things. And you find that here in Italy. I mean, I think and it's so funny. It's like when I think of lunch and, like, especially at a place like Rome if you're in certain neighborhoods where, like, it's a weekday. And then you go to lunch, you see all the business men. They're all sitting together having their meetings or they're doing something. Like, I mean, because it's never like just a lunch. You know, it's never it's never just a lunch. And even if they don't look like they're, like, Maybe doing anything they are. Yeah. No. So you're absolutely right. It's true. But I have to think about the phrasing. Maybe you got the end of this podcast. I was listening. A slovenian guy saying, you know, some stuff. Like, This will be him guys, like, I'm gonna give the right phrase for Italian polka notes. Yeah. You'll have to. No. They're not me. So what do you do now in the wine world? What is your I'm the commercial coordinator at a company who is importing and distributing wine in Slovenia. Awesome. Cool. And is have you been doing that for a while? Yeah. I mean, I I've been in the wine business for now couple of years. And I joined the company, honestly, December last year. So, I'm, I'm, I'm a, a fresh year. I would say that. But, still, I mean, I love it. I, I love it. We, we have, we have a company from, CCD, which we are distributing very amazingly, honestly. And I love Cecillion, you know, Cecilia is amazing. I know. And the the next big thing about Italian wine, you know, especially because of TV series and all that. Oh, white lotus. Yeah. Yeah. I'm watching it. Yeah. Oh, you're you're watching it now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you finish it? Not yet. Oh, my gosh. No. I was studying now for the BIA. Come on, you know, hopefully, I had to pass on a time. Right. That is a valid excuse. Yeah. You know, my apologies if I didn't watch everything. Yeah. I'm going I'm going to Sicily honestly end of April and and I will go to us. I'm really looking forward to this. I met I met the guys, their amazing team. I honestly, I met them in Paris. Oh, he's just like, oh, yeah. Like, yeah, we are in Paris. We are we can speak in Italian. You know, I can speak Italian and we're like, oh, yeah. No problem. Take better than French? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. That's awesome. Absolutely. I I can't. I would totally try to speak French on this podcast, but that would be No. No. No. No. No. No. This is the Italian podcast they got. Oh, let's play French. We don't know how to speak French. I'm I don't need to pretend. I mean, you know, speak French. You know, you know, you know how they play. I'm French. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I guess. So Yeah. Let's So where, which plan I thought are you going to visit? There's a couple. Yeah. No. I'm going to the main estate. Okay. So Aetna straight away. And then we do the we we we are gonna actually I I was really happy this year because, my wife said, also, we are going in April. No need to, like, focus on beaches and all. Though she's a familiar, but she's she's like, you know, I I need to escape from wine. Mhmm. Here and there, she loves wine also. But we said, okay, I was happy because she said, we are just gonna rent a car and cruise through all of, the island. So I'm like, yes. Yes. Yes. Oh, yes. So I'm looking forward, you know, I'm looking forward to visiting Aetna. I want to go to to the whole UNESCO protected sites and all of that. I want to go also to Marcella because one of my really fond memories is going way, way, way back. My father was, pastry chef. He was one of the best pastry chef in our old republic named yugoslavia. Maybe you have heard something about that. And and he was doing Tierra Mihoo with masala Dolce. So, you know, I I I still know that the the original recipe actually calls for masala Dol. Yes. Yeah. So, and this is something I'm really, really like. Yes. We have to go to Marcela and even though it's it's kind of fallen from memory now. Mhmm. But but the wines are amazing. Yeah. And I was so happy yesterday to have Marcela on the panel. I was like, yes. So that's like your memory. That that's my, you know, the the the memory skips keeps bringing me back to childhood. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. And you're so lucky that you were able to eat that too. I mean, it's so growing up. Of course. You're spoiled. No. You know, the the fun part is, I mean, fun. When my dad was working, it was like, you know, I I I leave all time in between Candice and sweets. I I don't want to eat sweets, which now obviously I, you know, I I gained a couple of of Michelin circles around my belly. So, you know That's a great way to phrase it. I gained a couple of mission stars. No. No. No circles circles. It is not stars. Just, you know, god, I mean, it's hard. I mean, especially in Italy. Like, even though, I mean, no, there's dessert everywhere, but Sicily. Sicily. Oh my god. There is a that they find excuse to to to have something sweet all the time. And and it's Great excuse it. It's never something you should turn down. Yeah. But come on. What? Canali. But what what do you mean? Like, that's all there is? No. There's more. Oh, there's a lot more. There's a lot more, but, you know, that that's that's like, you know, I I would go for that, but everything else, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I I thought you heard just saying there is just to know No. No. No. No. No. That's more. But, you know, there there is something with this pastry which is which is gritty and and, you know, and and then you have this cream in it. Yeah. That's the thing. You know, the the opposite, you know, you have this, like, creamy, oily, something, intertwining with with crispiness and Yes. It's it's You know where I'm going. Yeah? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like No. I'm just inviting you for a cannoli somewhere. Oh my god. But they're here. No. I'm sorry. I I actually saw the cannoli's like two hours ago and they were like, this big which is too much for. Where in Italy? Yeah. Oh, interesting. I just like They're huge. And I was like, whoa. No. No. You know, it's like eating this one would be like, no. Just just just hibernation for three days. I know. I know. And it's so funny because, like, I the one well, Sicily, they have them in different sizes, but Yeah. You know, they just are so much down there because they use it like sheep's milk, ricotta. And it's, like, so, like, luscious and perfect. And they fill it on the spot, but then here a lot of times you see them prefilled. Yeah. It's like a half of the Romans. Yes. Exactly. But, actually, funny story about, canola was when I was leaving teromena, while we were in Kaptania in the airport. I was with a group and one of our friends was like, I'm gonna get a South canole from the place. And in my head, I was like, I'm gonna eat a canolelo in an airport. And it was so good. I was like, I was like, I my whole brain just flew off. I was like, I didn't get a great control in the airport. I was like, yeah, I love Sicily. Never let me leave like it. Yeah. So, you know, this is what I'm looking really forward to in couple of weeks. You're like, yeah. Yeah. I'm selling wine. Where are the cannoli? Cannoli and Pasito. Let's go. Oh. You know? Yeah. You have the huge one. You know? Yeah. A huge one, you know, like the The invoice size, you know. Well, Valentino, it was so lovely to have you on the podcast. And I wish you the best of luck in the next couple of minutes of finding your. When you when you do hear this podcast, you'll be open to that feeling. You're always welcome, Veronica. And Thank you again for being here with me. Thank you so much. It's It's such a pleasure to be here. It's amazing. As always, a big drop tip for hanging out with me today, Remember you can catch me every Sunday on the Italian wine podcast. Available anywhere, you can get your pots.