Ep. 2118 Giulia Stocchetti Interviews Niko Kanellopoulos | The Next Generation

To you. Ben Venuti, welcome to the next generation. With me, your host, Julia Stochettie. Join me as I take you on a journey to discover young stars of the Italian food and wine world, PRonti and Yamu. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to a new episode on the Italian win podcast. Today's episode is one of a kind. It is a call to action, address to young when people with a strong passion for wine who'd like to carry on Nicole's work. Following his footsteps by taking over his winery and vineyard in Taurasi, where he grows Alyanico in synergy with nature to make natural wine. The interview will be both in Italian and English with the support of Nikco Sepson Guilelmo. Webs him out both in the winery and in the vineyard. Nikko's story is unique. He is slowly overcoming a difficult moment in his life, and I can't wait to let him on the scene. I'm sure he will be an inspiration to the all of us. So, Nico, hello, and thanks for being with us today. It's such an honor to get to know someone like you. How are you today? Okay. So look at this you know. You said a lot of things. Yes. So I hope the people speak Italian to understand because it was great, really, really enjoyable. Really, he was, living in Greece on an island with this family. And, his family were fishermen. So he were, he used to go fishing with, his grandfather, his, cousins, and almost all his family. They were also producing wine, in, Greece. So in this island in Paris. And they used to do the passyto because they used to dry the grape in the sun, so to push up the sugar and to have a natural product without any so fights and then he chemicals. And, after the civil war in, Greece, he was decided to come in Italy because he didn't want to have a military career in Greece. And so he came here and he started his connection with the good people in Italy and, he understood he did the the right things. Then he started his life with this, wine history because he has a disease around the ninetieth. It was really difficult for him to understand which kind of disease he had, and then a TBian, doctor he discovered that was connected with the sulfites. And so we build the food, and drink, with sulfite. He was, like, a kind of allergic. That's why he liked so much wine. He start to think to produce season of wine without sulfides. And so from here, all these stories starts, and they start to plant, like, hundred, twenty planting, Mirabella that is town year by year. And then he understood he wants something bigger. So he moved to Tarosi where, still is here, and, he's producing his natural wine. So, actually, Nicole leads also in Taurazi. Right? Yeah. She lives here with my mother. So they live together here. They bought this house in two thousand three. And, when they came here, we bought the house with the land. We have eight, actors. And, in this land, is almost all good. That's around the outs, and we use it like a filter for chemical display around the other So you have, like, the wood, let's say surrounding your vineyard, right, to protect it because otherwise, other people use chemicals, and they might affect your vines but because you don't want that, you preserve all the trees and all the floor other is around there. Right? Yeah. And he cautious this land because it was like a mountain for years, and so it was sure there was no chemical in the soil, no chemical anywhere. And, yes, we use our bush around the vinyl. The vinyl is, like, in a valley where we also have a little little, river, not river, but a little water going around. So we have a hour on water in the land, and, we have all this bush around. So it's really spectacular natural place. Sounds like, no, is it? In this land, they bought we already had, like, eight hundred plants in the old, vineyard, and then I plan other one thousand six hundred. So we have two How many bottles do you make a year more or less? I mean, when you do the wine in this way, you can tell a year because sometimes we're going to wine for many years. Because sometimes rains, sometimes something happens. So to produce the wine in the way Nicko like, the grape has to be perfect because otherwise you are putting something sick in your wine, for sure, you need chemicals. That's why because they're going to robot the cut from the plant. Normally, it's automatic. Yeah. Because Nico was saying that you select berry by berry. Yes. Not even bunch by bunch, but even berry by berry. Make sure just only the healthiest and previous and best berries of the bunch of the grapes get into your wine. Yes. So that you don't need to add anything else because starting from a healthy and high quality product, in this case, this Alianico, Nikos Alianico, I will call it the wine will come really nice natural and won't get spoiled, even if you don't add sulfates or other preservatives just because of the quality of the land of the multicultural that is practiced and just basically following the pace of nature? Yes. Mainly, the rules is to trash and trash. We trash, a lot of grape fun also because the rule is that, if a percentage of the grape is bad, Also, if you have someone that are good, we trust everything because the percentage of sugar will be compromised. So we only take, the really good one. And also before the moment, you have to cut the grape to make the wine. We go in the vineyard to trash, a lot of grape to push up the quality of the wine. Maybe Nicole will explain it a little better. So there's, like, great selection first in the vineyard before the harvest. Yeah. And then you select the grapes when you are actually harvesting only by hand. Right? Yes. Small crate, I guess. Yes. And then there's another selection in the winery before starting the fermentation. Right? Normally, we don't do that because, we are really careful to bring in the content of only what is already selected. Okay. Perfect. Mainly, the concept is the quantity is, going against quality. So we don't do quantity, but only quality. And to answer your question, I think our best year, we did three thousand bottom. Oh, such a small production, but I guess, like, the wine should have been like anambrosia, like the nectar of gods. I mean. Got some butter. English are also less than nitrogen. Yeah. Wow. And we used to drink the wine after, seven or eight years. Okay. And we also tried, one of the first bottle we produced in two thousand three last year and was really good. So Oh, wow. That's amazing. Yeah. It's hard, I guess, for people to find your wine. As you know, better, for sure, than us, we don't have, official production. Because we don't have enough land to have a good compromise, for what you spend and what you gain. So mainly, we drink the wine ourselves. Okay. So it's a private production. And then we give it two plants mostly. Oh, okay. So it's basically really Nikos production. I mean, it's Nikos Family production. Let's say, and you do it just for yourself. So you don't sell it. Yeah. Oh, beautiful. I mean, we can sell it not in bottles because we are not allowed. That's why we give it to friends. And many times, they use our container to put their self the wine in the bottle or something like this. Mainly, yes. We share our wine with friends and family. Yeah. I like Niko City of the wine that is for sharing that is to, you know, to party, to spend time with friends, with people, cheering, being happy, eating something. It's really also like a great idea because it makes me come to the mind, you know, the old myths of, for example, bakus Diones is celebrating, you know. So Yeah. It's really cool. Yeah. Also because to make the wine in this way, you need a lot of people and a lot of times to celebrate every single break. So you have to understand that for us, it's like, the ten days instead of maybe half days for a producer that do it with the tractor or whatever. So we have a partial for ten days with our friends and our family with music, and it's really nice. That should be beautiful. That's also why you make really the wine because you put so much love, so much passion in what you do that the results must be outstanding. You know what I mean? At least a wine with now eighty. I mean, I picture your wine, like, something that is lovely that is like live, that is a universe just in this bottle or glass or whatever it is a container, but it's, like, the joy of life in a class, you know what I mean, spreading the light, spreading the happiness, and the joy of sharing. So that's how I picture myself your wine, and I hope that maybe when they'll be able to try some, but especially to meet a nickel in person because human speed. Absolutely. This is an interesting and and great person. So well, so I have a question for Nico Guillermo. Maybe you can translate it to him. What do you think? To him. Yeah. Absolutely. And I was wondering, like, having created all this heavenly place where to make wines. How do you picture the future of your place of your winery, of your vineyards? What are your aspiration for your place in the future? Julia. The but so because of course, you know. Okay. No. Okay. Or most of the it's still a lot of individual. If you want, I can try to do a little resume of what he says. And mostly everything is based on nature and do the wine. That was not the right way as possible. He never worked the soil because he learned that the first ten centimeter of the soil is the parts of the soil that have more nutrients, and that's why it's not necessary for us to give, first steel exam to the soil because we don't need it. And, for sure, nothing to kill the grass, but the, is the weight of the grass to be a forty centimeter. And then cut it and leave it on top of the film. So it can automatically avoid to be burned from the sun and also to give nutrients to the soil. Then if you remove a little bit the soil, you will, find a lot of worm normally is, the sign that's your soil is healthy, and there is a lot of nutrient. Then, he was selling that leave only three branches. And in everyone, you were supposed to leave three grapes, but they leave only one because, less a grape to live on the plants, then the plant is, able to give all the nutrients to that grid. So you have more possibility to arrive to a good product with the right amount of sugar because we used to wait until, twenty five, of bricks that guarantee you a minimum over fourteen degrees in the wine. And as he was saying before, a leakwork, like a whiskey in a little bit bag. And so the goal is to try to have more alcohol percent are just possible in the wine. So you don't need any cons and many time, it was opening some bottle from fifteen years or more. And he was questioning why they were, still good. The answer is because, his work, goal is to make everything really clean. All the container he used to store the wine before to put them in the bottle are not good because it doesn't like, that all the wine main test is wood. And so to push up the flavor of Waianiko, we use a steel one, and so you don't have any contamination of flavor. That's why many people trying our wine, they always think about is, something really young. Also, if it's, maybe fifteen years or eight years old. That's really interesting if I might see something because most of the time, people think that if a wine was aged in oak barrels means that it has more longevity compared to a wine that has been made only in stainless steel tanks or concrete containers. But that's not true. It's just like, you know, what people say. But actually, if you get quality, healthy grapes and you put them in stainless steel tanks both for fermenting and for aging, you can get as Michael gave us the proof, a line that has a lot of time ahead of him. I mean, that can be really age worthy and can seem even much younger than it actually is. So that's something that is quite rare to find, but it's beautiful. Yeah. That's for sure. Also, sometimes they used to do the wine in the wood barrel because the wood give to the wine, tannins. And the ayanico is characteristic is full of tannins. So that's why you have to wait at least four or five years before to drink it because otherwise the wine is too tammy. It's not good to drink. So for sure this is a characteristic that help because wine to be edible. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful. After saying all that, I was wondering if some people, some young people, winemakers or vine growers or whatever, would like to get in touch with you to help Nico with his project to keep his vineyard and his one making tradition alive. What should they do? I left in the profile my contact of Instagram Facebook because Nico doesn't have it. Yeah. Nikle is connected to the nature. He is, like, literally, you know, a man of nature. He doesn't need any social. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. It doesn't have a smartphone or nothing. So the best thing is to keep in contact with me, and then I will, pass the contact to Nicole. That will be amazing. Also, I think, Nicole want to say something. Yeah. Of course, please. He's welcome. Problem. Okay. I am lucky because I can hear a story often. The like, before he was saying that, the goal is always to respect the nature because when he came here, everything was quite poison by dissociate and all the chemical they put in the soil to avoid the herbs brewing and everything because they don't want to spend the time to cut, and, have a manual work. So many times, if you ask people why they are doing that, they tell you because it's cheaper because, it's faster and so you don't have to pay people, handling working in the soil. And, for sure now is becoming really hard for because, all the people, and I saw that is true. I live in a city. I'm a sailor, and I have a different kind of life. But I guarantee you that all the people that was born here I think, like, everywhere, their dream base to move to the city. And so the end of the story is that, the field are abandoned. Also, if Tarasi is gonna be known in the world, for the wine and, but all the vineyards are abandoned. And the people, they are moving because there is always some industry growing, and, people, prefer to go to the industry because they think that, work the land, is something wrong. They have to dream, to live in a city. Normally, it's the opposite of the city people because city people, they will like to go in the countryside and, people burning countryside. They want to go to the city. For sure the work is not well paid. I have to say. Our problem is that we don't use a lot of machine, but mainly we do the work by end. And, Nicole was telling me before that, someone tell him that he's crazy because he cut the grass, handily between the plant of the vineyard and normally use a machine, but, it doesn't want to because he don't want the contamination of the smoke of the tractor or it doesn't want to move the soil. And so it's not possible to have the same effect by a machine. So this is the his main problem is, like, if you'll abandon in this field because, everyone is moving away. And I also honestly was trying to contact someone to rent some machinery because sometimes we need it. But in the past, we were using the one of the neighbor, or, someone. So he never bought a tractor because he was something like a moment to enjoy and to share with someone else coming here to help. So now that everyone is gone, we don't have any help, and that's the main reason why he's not able to take care of the land. Also, if he's calling all the is, all the people that in the story were helping him, everyone is gone. Everyone is working in some industry or company, so nobody's here anymore, and it doesn't have anyone to work the way. So this is a bit sad story. I think for all the country, or Italy, maybe, because when you drive around the countryside, it's really difficult to see someone working the land. So you use tractor and machine, but then, when you need people, they are gone. Yeah. But we should understand that life is not all about money, but also we have to think about the quality of the life. And especially, we have to think that the land is what feeds us, you know, the food, wine, all the stuff that keep us alive. So, like, our guests, we we function just things to the food and the wine and the water, So all the things that come from the land and from the nature. And sometimes, I mean, often we forget about that, and we think just about the money and business and success, but life comes from the land. And if we abandon the land, if we forget about the land and how precious is the land, because every single worm that is in there, every single, you know, insect, whatever is what keeps us alive in a way. And so I think that there's nothing like more useful and closer to divinity than just being a vine grower or a person who works the land because the land is life. Yeah. For sure. I agree with you. But as you say, we live in a commercial world. So everyone, care about money and nobody cares about quality. Well, actually, Nickley is caring about, you know, quality of life and just keeping the land healthy. So there is someone. We don't have to be, you know, so negative, but Yeah. There are just really few people. You're right. So people out there really need you to take care of the land. I mean, the majority, that's why people are on the air when they come in our field, they say you are crazy. Because for them is insane to do something like this to trash the grape and to don't work the soil. Yeah. Because they are lazy. They are lazy. They just want easy things. People nowadays just want easy things. It don't think about, you know, of course every achievement you have in life, you have it because you struggle for it. You were fighting for it. It required energy. It didn't come easy, but people just don't get it. People just want easy things most of the time. But then I think they realize at some point in life how nice is to, you know, spend themselves for other people or, you know, to help the nature and the land to stay healthy and go on with the generations. Yeah. For sure. Also, everyone in our experiences come from here, they really remember, they have a good memory of this experience. And, also people, they were drinking Nikos wine because for sure when you produce, three thousand, and then, you can drink all by yourself. So I was trying to give it to friends also selling it because, we can do that. Everyone drink his wine, they are not able to go back to another one. And so I also give it to people. They are, maybe allergic to wine. They tell me, no, I can drink wine. Then I say, let's try this one. And then they're shocked because they say, oh, I can drink it. So, yes, for sure, because I don't think you're allergic to wine, but you're alleged to chemicals. Yes. What they put in wine? I also have many friends doing wine, maybe in Puyah or somewhere else. And every time I was speaking with them about Nico, they said, it's impossible what to do because doing wine is, a game, of chemical. So you need a chemical expert when you do your wine. And I say yes, but maybe because you put, bad things in your wine. You don't look for which kind of grip you're, picking up and putting in. So if you take care and you select, one by one, maybe you can avoid that this, Kim Hogan, but it's something that, is not convenient. Let's say that. Because in this word, convenient is always about money, then after you think about your health But fortunately, this direction is changing, and maybe we have the generation. We can, help this change and push it in the right direction because, for sure, at the beginning of, the globalization and everyone was trying to produce more and more, but, quantity as quality as we were saying before our enemies. And so it's really better to do a good product, healthy for the land, healthy for the water and healthy for everyone. But we have to remember that with the money we can't buy our health. So we must take care Yeah. And make sure to try to leave the healthiest life. We can avoid dangerous stuff for us just, you know, to live better. But Yeah. I'm sure that there are some people like Nicole who try to pass on this philosophy and this vision of life. So for sure there will always be people, you know, who will take care of the man and of quality life instead of quantity and just money. So It's also quite a trend with bio in these, years because who is, something happening. I mean, forty years ago, didn't exist. Yeah. Exactly. More and more people are trying to do that. So that's a step forward. So we are on the way. Come on. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Well, I guess that's a wrap. And if there's anything else you'd like to add, you're welcome. Otherwise, we're good. I mean, for, so we can stay here speaking for our but I know we have a long limit. So I think we are, fight over this time limit. Maybe if there is someone, want to ask us something, they can try to connect with me and, I will, pass the information to Nico, and we will answer all the questions. That will be great. So people, if you want to know more about Nico, way of making wine, about also Guillermo. Feel free just to contact him to contact Guillermo. You can find all the info in the description. So please just do that. Especially if you also like to have an experience and help out with the vineyard work, with one rework, feel free to contact Guillermo, and he will put you in contact with Nico for sure. Well, it's been a huge pleasure for me. Thank you so much. Graceli, our pleasure. Gracie, for being with me today and listening to the next generation on the Italian mind podcast.