Ep. 2227 Giulia Stocchetti Interviews Carlo Guarini | Next Generation

How many labels do you make? More or less? No. We are at five labels. Okay. So five different terawatts. Right? No. Actually, three because another very good things about the Gramaro is his flexibility. From Negramaro, you can do not only red wine, not only the Jose. That is part of our tradition here in Salenta, but, you can do also a white verification of Negramaro. So you make white negramaro. Oh, yes. Welcome to the next generation. With me, your host, Julia Stochetti. Join me as I take you on a journey to discover young stars of the Italian food and wine world. Kronte and Diego. Hello. Hi, everyone, and welcome back to a new episode of the next generation on the Italian Wayne Podcast. Today, I'm taking you to Poria. To meet Carloarini, who's the cofounder of Castello Frisari. Basically, he's a winemaker from the hot southern Italy. So I don't wanna waste any more time because he has lots of things to share with us today. And so let's give Carlo a warm welcome to the show. Chow, Carlos. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. How are you today? That's good. That's good. It's quite calm period in the vineyard. So everything good here in the down in Pulia. You're having pretty good time, so I can't complain. I must say. Nice. So what's the weather like there? Is cold as Europe North or is a bit better? No. It's a bit better. It's a bit better. Actually, I'm quite happy because we are having a rainy winter or or at least this month. It seems to be quite rainy, and so that's good. So you're happy because usually in summertime, you don't have that much rain. Right? So it's important to have it right now. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, even more because in the last years, we really don't understand anymore what's happened with this weather. So, comparing from last season, we had, no rain for, more than four months. And, I mean, we are used to have a dry weather, but not so dry, actually. So at least, if you're having rain during the winter, I can be happy. Oh, wow. That's nice. So, I guess, you're growing varieties that are at least a bit drought resistant. Otherwise, with no water, they suffer a lot. Yes. Exactly. We're growing, indigenous variety such as Negramaro and specific only. Negramarume and my brother that is an indigenous variety here from the south. So it's a variety that is used to the dry climate, but not so dry. I mean, last year, we had forty degrees, and no rain for, again, for more than four months and the vines were very stressed out. So, for example, we were always quite proud to say that we don't use irrigation system. It was always something to be proud for us. But now with my brother, we are start to think, on some solution for the future. Yeah. I was about to ask you if you had any irrigation system and you're already answered. So, yeah, it's nice to do, like, the dry growing of the grapes without any water resource, but sometimes it's needed. Otherwise, it gets really hard both for device also for you to make Weinstein. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's true. Oh, Carlo. Can you please tell Leslie about yourself? Yes. So because we started talking about, like, Viticulture and one. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. I guess it's it's nice to hear from you first. Yeah. I was born in, in Salentu, here in Boulen Lakehe, and I've been here until my I was eighteen. And then I moved to Milan. I start my university studies in management, and then I also start my working career, actually in a totally different area compared to agriculture or, or wine business because it was in consultancy. But I grow in a farming, family. We are from more than twenty five generation in this, in this business, twenty five generations. Yeah. That's true. Wow. So that could be unreal, but, my family has a very long, long story always in, in Pulia. It's a family arrived from Normandy. It was ten sixty five, the first document that we have about, my family. And since then, we were always related to agriculture. And Oh, wow. To be contrary to the landscape. I mean, the south of Italy was always, let's say agriculture was crucial. And so this was the main business for, for Hazas and, I see now we're continuing doing this, this job. So for sure, this, deep relation to this job with this sector moved me when I was doing a completely different job. To change, to change life and to come back here, and to start this new adventure. So, basically, you came back for the passion for the land. Right? Yes. I came back for the passion of the land. I came back for, my love for this place, and, for the reason that I really believe that this, this area has so many things to offer in terms of quality of the life, in terms of, opportunities in terms of relationship, types of people that I don't know. The call was very was very strong. I was safe. So it felt like it was time to go back home and to do something, like, within your family. Because, actually, you founded the winery with your brother. Right? Yeah. That's true. Exactly. So what's your brother's background? Like, why have you decided to found the winery together? Hey, my brother actually here, they're always, a much more focused idea on this business because he studied agriculture and, and winemaking. Mhmm. So he was always focused on this, and actually everything happened quite naturally because, I mean, I was always more or less involved in this business. I started. I remember many years ago to slowly follow, my father during a different wine fair. Slowly start to get in love with this sector, especially the wine business, slowly understand, what the players doing, why all the, let's say, the roots in the background of this sector. And suddenly, I realized the potential that puglia, that salento, and that our varieties could have in this business. And my brother was totally in line with me. So at a certain point, we said, you know what? We need to show How cool if I can use this word, how cool our area is, and how cool our, variety. Sorry. That's beautiful. Who's being younger? I was twenty seven. Mhmm. And my brother is three years younger than me. Okay. And when did you found the winery? We started in class in sixteen. Okay. Yeah. So it's almost ten years. Next year is gonna be ten years. Wow. Time flies. Yes. Yeah. You bet it does. Yes. Yes. So this was the reason. Actually, the trigger was this vision, this mission to show the real potential of, our place in Ava Britis. And so with my brother, we decided that was better to found, to start a total new company, a total new farm. To the new winery because we wanted to go straight to the point. And it was not, the same that joined the family business and, you know, you add another labeled another brand, another wine, lines. My father with his brother and sister, they still run a winery Okay. For a family business. Mhmm. So they are on this this market, for, more than one hundred years. So with my brother, we wanted to do something totally different that was again, you know, straight to the point with our idea, with our mission. And that's why we were we start to focus only on one of the three indigenous variety that we have here in Salento. So on That's beautiful. And then next to this, we start to be focused on the fields on the terroir. On the pure agricultural side of the winemaking. So we start to look for, interesting vineyards for interesting area where to grow our vineyards. So you also bought some land or you work with your family's land? No. No. We were, totally independent, because, my family has, one single big state in one place. Okay. With my brother, we wanted to discover more the diversity of our area because Salento, most of the time, people think that is one single place, but actually inside we have so many differences I mean, we are a, first of all, like an island. So we have, East Coast, West Coast. So again, two different wind influence. We have a different soil. Kinda three c. We go from, Calcaryll soil. To red soil, to sandy soil. And again, also, most of the time, people think that salente is a flat area. I mean, we don't have hills. We don't have mountains, of course. But actually, we have smaller areas that are called Seren, that means small hills. Mhmm. Very small. I mean, I'm talking about, hundred meter size. So not so big. Well, but it's a little bit of altitude for sure. So it's a bit, but Yeah. But, the most important thing is how they influence the wind and the rain. And so this creates even more differentiation in the land. So with my brother, we say, okay. Let's have a look on different areas with different micro climates. We take different vineyards, and we grow our negromero, only negromero in different places. From each? At the end, you make a blend or you make different wines We do single vineyard. Why? Okay. Okay. So how many labels do you make? More or less? Now, we are at five labels. Okay. So five different terawatts. Right? No. Actually, three. Because another very good things about negramaro is, his flexibility. From negramaro, you can do not only red wine, not only the Jose, that is part of our tradition here in Salenta, But, you can do also a white unification of negramaro. So you make white negramaro? Oh, yes. Oh, wow. But still. We do steel and bubbles. Oh, wow. And how do you make the sparkling wine? Like traditional method or Martinotti? We do one traditional method, but without, this government. So on the East, as you leave. Okay. Okay. It's like an Anchestrale, let's say. It's not a proper Anchestrale because it's a it's a classic metal. So you do the one and then you make the second fermentation, but then, and this we do with, a white verification of negramada. Then we do another bubbles that it's a pure, Anchestrale, but we do in Jose, and that is a pure Anchestrale. So, single, single fermentation. So what's your favorite terroir so far? Like, what's your favorite expression of negramaro, you make? That's a very difficult question because it's like to ask, let's say exact no, you know, because it's always a different question. It's like to ask, which is your favorite child, you know, it's always difficult to answer about. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. No. I must say that now the area that's becoming very interesting and challenging for us is the one that is called is in the deep south of Salento. It's basically the cape of Salanto. This is the area where we have these hills, and this is the area where the predominant terraris Calcares. And you have also the sea that give a very interesting influence on the wine. And out of this, we are having, in my opinion, the most interesting expression of negramaro in red. First of all, then also in Rosier and, in Agistrada. But in red, I must say that is the most interesting one because we are having a very mineral balsamic fresh negramaro. I mean, my brother's style of winemaking was always, focus, because he's the winemaker. So if the wine is good, I mean, he's the one. So he's the winemaker, and you are the salesman. Alright. The brand ambassador. Yes. Exactly. So you're doing the hard work, Carlo. You are the one who struggles to use. We both have the huge responsibilities. Yeah. Of or 'seventeen. So Yes. Yes. So sorry. What's your brother's way in making style? Yeah. Let's say that we are always focused on, to give Negramato a very big shift from the idea that, the wine of the south usually people usually have. So a very bold deep fruits dip by the wine, we are going on the opposite side, even if the alcohol content is around fifteen. So it's not, it's not low. But the idea is to do a very fine and elegant way using the power of the acidity. That Negramaro has, and that's why it's a very good variety to do white humidification because it has acidity. Mhmm. And then, negramaro is a spicy wine, so it has very multiple faces, when you taste the bottle from the first glass to the last one. You can have a very interesting funding for tasting, fine tasting. And so the idea was always to show, the elegance of the south Mhmm. With the power that the sun give us, that the area give to us having, something elegant, but not watery. So with a very strong personality. But even more, our goal is to show the potential of of the And that's why in the reds, I mean, we started with two reds, and now we are allergic slowly. Our production with other vineyards is to show the potential of the terroir of the microclimate of that specific area. On the red wines, the VINification process is the identical the same for all the red labels. And what is the process? We do twenty around three weeks of maceration fermentation. So it's very long and slow. We do everything on full grapes, so we don't crush. So you use whole bunches, basically? No. We we take out the stems, but then, we don't break the other grapes. Okay. Okay. Yes. So the fermentation start from the outside and then go slow inside. We do, on average, like, eighty percent in, steel tank, and the other twenty percent in the barrique, in the barrel just for the fermentation. Oh, so you ferment part of the wine in Barrick? Yes. Exactly. Interesting. So we do eighty percent in the tank and twenty percent in in the barrel. And after that, we press and then we age only in a steel tank. Okay. Very interesting choice. And like the Barriques are or the barrels are new or second, third passage? The the Barriques we started with new, but then, you know, the thing is that we use for three weeks. So it doesn't get, too much. Okey flavors to the one. Yes. Exactly. The I wanna yeah. My brother is not for the oak. Okay. It's just for a technical reason about to fix the color of the wine. Okay. It's for the timing of the oak. Okay. So it's just a technical reason. Wine with heavy old aromas and flavors. They cover the purity of the fruit, and then you can't really enjoy the terroir behind it. So I totally agree. And even more, I mean, in our philosophy, philosophy that we want to show the differences given by the the Duruire, if I use Oak at the end, I mean, I cover all the differences. Yeah. Makes sense. So For now, what's your total annual production more or less? How many bottles you make? We are very small. Now we are on only twelve thousand bottles. Oh, wow. It's a really unique small production. But It's very small. Consider that we have a less than five hectares. Okay. And on average, we have a healed per hectare, for the red that is five thousand kilo. Oh, okay. Okay. So it's very low. Yeah. You grow Negramaro and you've unified negramaro. So if you have to choose one of your wines to be paired with some of your local food, What would it be? On the red, both of the wine that we do because as have different, expression, you can go for, consider that here in Salento, we are mostly basically vegetarian. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. In the south, we basically in inside the land, we basically eat legumes and vegetables Okay. Also much meat. Mhmm. And then on the coast, the the fish. So we have this casino of legumes and vegetables, especially during the winter, the slow cooked, and, a very good intense flavor. And this is fantastic with a noxo bold negronaro. Yeah. Exactly. It's something that you can have a healthy and light, meal with, not so heavy, you know, red wine that you can easily can enjoy, the bottle. And not only one glass. Nice. That's what we look for in Hawaii, actually. Exactly. And then, I mean, at the end, then, there is, Jose. There is a here in something huge. It's part of our tradition. And in my opinion, it's a wine that you can pair with everything. It's so flexible. As fantastic, you could go from fish to pasta, to white meat, but during the summer also with a steak. It's fantastic. Oh, wow. I mean, for me, better Jose also on pizza than a beer. Nice. Yeah. More and more people actually are pairing some nice wines with pizza instead of fear. So becoming more and more popular, I would say. But, yeah, Rosay is like black. I mean, it fits every season, and it's really interesting to try to pair it with different kinds of food, but also to have it just like as aperitivo or, like, in summer, you know, you're laying down on the poolside or, like, on the seaside. You want something refreshing and juicy. You go for a rosette, and you can't make a mistake. And you always enjoy and in Saleto, you're very, very popular for Rosa, first of all, and then also there's Negramaro. But when people think about Rosay, they think about Salento for sure. Yeah. This is, I'm really happy about it. We how to say we we fought a lot during the years. You know, I'm happy. So because you're talking about, like, terwar and expressing the different parcels of Salento you have, in your opinion, what's the most important thing that can make the difference in quality winemaking? For me, the first thing is the farming, side of the winemaking. So the agricultural side, how you grow, your own grape, and the deep understanding of of the grape variety and where it come from. This is in my opinion that makes the difference in winemaking because, maybe most of the time winemakers, the pure winemakers don't go often in the fields. Don't deeply? How does it work on the farming side of this job? And this is my opinion. It's a huge mistake because, this knowledge is fundamental then to release something that has the reason to be in a bottle. Only by this, you can have a respect for the grapes that arrive in the, in the cellar before the start of the process. And, and with my brother with this, we were always quite aligned He has a very huge respect for this. I mean, nowadays with the winemaking techniques, you know, you can do whatever you want. So the secret, is the starting point. It's the great variety. Because if you have a very good quality and you know the characteristics of that grape, then, in my opinion, the seventy, eighty percent of the job stuff. A hundred percent agree. Yeah. And I'm curious to know what agricultural practices do you adopt in the vineyard? Like, how do you grow your grapes? Like, in a sustainable way, in organic way? What's your approach? Our approach is organic. For us was, you know, by default. It was not a choice. We started Yeah. It came natural. Yeah. Yeah. It was very natural to start organic growing. I mean, I always consider myself first of all a farmer. As a farmer, what I have is the fields. It's the land. If I don't take care of my land and I don't give value to the land, I have nothing. So for me, this is the really key point of being a farmer. So talking about the land, I was wondering according to your experience, what is the attitude of the younger generations towards the land. Do you see, like, a comeback to the land or young people still prefer, like, cities and working in big metropolis instead of going back to the countryside? You know, actually the reason the last years are now a huge, how to say rumors about going back to the land, also towards a younger generation. What I've seen and what I've what I see now is actually that is not the truth. I represent in Russell. I am a delegate for the, young farmer, the European Young farmer association. Oh, wow. And so I go there once a month to do lobby for the young young farmer of Europe. And what I've seen also through numbers that, actually, farmers under forty years old, here in Italy are only the eight percent. And in the last If I remember, well, ten years, we lost two points. So from ten percent, we went down to eight percent. So, for sure, the rumors, delir, of going back to the land, it's something that is growing. But then in the fact, in the reality Is not. The number says not. I mean, I'm happy that young people start to speak more because that's mean that, people are more sensible to the topic. But then I also understand that taking the decision to be a farmer is not easy. It's not an easy job. I totally understand. It's not an easy job. And that's why, for example, I'm doing this also going to Brussels, every month because I really want to show and to five bodies, and to show people that actually is not an easy job, but this is a very cool job. Yeah. It's cool, and it's worth it. So according to this, what would be the future of Italian wine? Like, what would next generations do about that if they don't wanna work the land? Like, mechanization only? I don't know. Gonna be sad. I mean, mechanization, it's something that is already reality. Mhmm. Agriculture is totally changed compared to twenty years ago. And so you need to be organized if you want to do job. So mechanization, this is something that is already a reality. And even more, if you want to be efficient, you need to do this. You need to be organized in this way. Then, the future, This is very hard to predict. As I said, I hope that numbers will change so that more young people want to start this job. I mean, in the last years, I can understand that with the climate change, the challenges are becoming very, very hard, very tough. And so I can understand that it's not easy, but I truly believe that quality of life doing this job. It's one of the highest, one of the highest, I believe. I think you're ready. If people try it, it's not easy as you said, and it's like working every single day. Because nature doesn't go on holiday nor the vines growing. But, yeah, once you try it, you never go back. Yeah. But there is a movement for, fight for this. Again, all the time that I go to Brussels, the main topic is, how to enable the generational renewal. This is the main topic for us, and it's the main topic that always we want to put on the table on Europe or, let's say on the the chasing table because, we know that it's not easy, and we want that the word, the politician, understand that has to be easy in order to have generation three new ones. So fighting for, for this. Nice. It's really, really important because only working the land, we can have good quality of life. We can get healthy products to eat, to feed ourselves, because also one is nourishment at the end. It's something that we actually that becomes part of ourselves once we drink it. And and I also hope that people in the future will drink and I wanna say, like, more wine per capita, but, like, more people will enjoy quality wines. Because it's something that is culture. It's something that makes you feel good. It's something that makes you socialize also with other people because one is sharing. So Yeah. Maybe these are just dreams. I don't know, but what do you think about that? You know, actually I think that it's not a literate. It could be reality and, maybe the the trend now, you know, of the decreasing, I mean, wine consumption, maybe will be a good thing in this way. So in the way that people would dream, maybe less but more conscious. So more looking for a quality, a glass compared to whatever class. And so maybe there would be, shift in this sense, and so that's why we need winemaker that has this focus in mind so that every single bottle of wine has to be there for a reason, and not just because it's a drink put on a shelf. This is the thing that we, as a producer, we need to understand, and we need to share with our customer, our consumer. So how do you address the younger generation? Like, what do you do to attract younger people consuming your wines, enjoying your wines? That's why, actually, telling them, the name and the surname behind that bottle but not only of me and my brother. Mhmm. But of the place where that wine is made, area where that the grapes used to do that wine come from, and all the things around that area. I always want to give name and surname to the land, to the place, and telling where they are drinking. So again, something that is real, that's something that has a clear purpose, and not just a wine that is designed to meet consumer taste or the consumer trend of the moment. So you want a wine that talks about the land and the people who make it So Yes. And the people and the variety, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Variety, land, and people. That's fantastic. I'd like to stay here even longer, but we're running out of time. So I was wondering if there's anything else you'd like to add before we wrap up the episode or any message you wanna send out. Of course, I really thank you for, for this opportunity. And just to say that give more value to the farming activity. It's the key for the future. So that's why I'm really proud to be, to be a farmer, first of all, and then of course, a winemaker. And you should be. Definitely. Well, thank you so much, Carla. It would be a pleasure having you as guest on the next generation here in the Italian one podcast. And, well, that's a wrap and Stay tuned for the next episode, next Sunday on the next generation on the Italian one podcast. Good day for being with me today and listening to the next generation on the Italian one podcast.