Ep. 822 Carol Franzia | Uncorked

Hello, everybody. My name is Holly Hammond, and you are listening to uncorked The Italian wine podcast series about all things marketing and communication. Join me each week for candid conversations with experts from within and beyond the wine world as we explore what it takes to build a profitable business in today's constantly shifting environment. In this episode, we welcome Carol Franza, fourth generation California winemaker, as she discusses history, heritage, and one seriously bad ass grandmother. Let's get into it. Carol. I'm so pleased to have you here with me this morning. I I know that you and I can see each other, but nobody else realizes that we're doing this at four AM and seven PM, respectively, across the globe. So welcome. Thank you, Molly. Great to be here. Just a a little bit of of backstory on why we're doing this interview today. There was an article released in Forbes in the past week about your great grandmother, Theresa Francis. I think it might have been part of their international women series where they were looking at women who have had great historical impact on wine and in particular the the California wine culture. And you and I have known each other for quite some time. And when we saw that, we thought, you know, you and I thought that it would be really interesting to actually hear the real stories of what it is to you know, be the descendant of someone who's had that much legacy. And what is it? A hundred and almost twenty years of, yeah, of the California wine. So let's start with Theresa. That's a good place to start. She started it all. The interesting thing is I didn't even know, my own history about Theresa until I was a lot older, and I I kinda wish I'd known about it earlier. My, you know, as a young girl with three brothers, I think it would have been interesting for me to know early on that I had this woman in my history. She has certainly become, you know, somebody I idolize now. I actually have a picture over my desk always so that I can when I think that I just can't do one more thing, I look at her and I'm like, okay. Yeah. I think I can do one more thing. Does she do? Yeah. Because she left Italy in was it nineteen Nineteen hundred. Nineteen hundred. Yeah. Yeah. And she left when she was, twenty one years old, and Actually, the story of her meeting is the best part of her story because it kinda set the stage for everything she did after that. I mean, this woman had no intention of going to America. I mean, she had no plans. Actually, my great grandfather, Giuseppe came, over about ten years earlier and started a truck farm and and got things going so that he can make money with the, understanding that he was going to send for his bride to be. Back, in a little village outside of general Italy. And when it was time, he, wrote to his bride to be and said, okay, I'm ready. Come on over, and she decided that, you know, no. I don't I don't wanna go. And she found another woman in the village and said, hey, I've got this ticket to to to go to America. And, Theresa was the other woman. And Theresa said, yeah, I'll take it. And she sent a letter to my great guy on her and said, I'm I'm coming to be your wife. And she did. So here's a woman that, you know, wasn't even in her plans. We we don't know how much Deseti knew her. It was a small village. She probably was related to the woman that was spilling over annually that Anyway, this woman at twenty one years old got on my ship for America. Yeah, not knowing what was his and Mary Giuseppe the day she bay basically three days after she arrived. She married to set me on July fourth, then he started as a farmer. And he and he really was a farmer the entire time. So he started with the vegetables. And then, after they married, they settled, in a little town, not far north from here, and then they came down here to this area where we all still live within a three mile radius of where my great grandparents settled. So we're still here four generations and now five generations later. We're still in this area. You know, the first thing they did was a planet graves because that was probably familiar to them. And and, and then more and more vineyards and to the point where they were had enough grapes to start a winery, but they didn't. And at the time when they might have, that's when prohibition started. So right when it was about the time to start a winery, there was no point. So they made their money by shipping grapes back to Chicago for, you know, home use on making. Right. Right. Definitely. Home use in Chicago during the prohibition. Absolutely. My my my grandfather actually tells the story and he wasn't a big talker, but he did tell a story one night that he had met Alcon, and we were all, like, freaking out. Oh, what was he like? You know, and he just sat there with his wine glass in his hand, and he said he was short. And that was the end of the whole story of meeting alcapone. So that's all you know. There you go. I do love this story that what a ballsy thing she did. So Giuseppe leaves, and Theresa decides that she's gonna start a winery. So she toggles up and gets the funding Mhmm. To start a winery, and he comes back to America. And lo and behold, here is the first family winery. The second one is one I'd like to touch upon because I don't know how much the average drinker in America is actually aware of the, the VIN diagram of the wines that are on our shelves. These days. Right? When you when you really look at it, there are about three Italian families who dominate those shells, and everyone is somehow related to another. So, Theresa, has a daughter that goes off and and finds true love? Well, yes. The the Ernest and Julia actually, were wanting to partner with my grandfather and his four brothers. And, they they weren't that interested in partnering with Gallo, but Ernest began to date my great aunt Amelia. And in doing that, My great grandmother felt, well, if, you know, if I gave my son's money for a winery, then I guess I need to give my daughter's husband money for a winery. So, yes, Theresa is responsible for both Frances Brothers winery and Yellow. Gallo Family still has Gallo winery. Yes. Francesia family no longer has the name. Has it you don't own your name anymore in the name line making sense. Exactly. And and that's an interesting thing. So we interviewed Erica Crawford early in the series. And Erica, again, good friend of mine in New Zealand, they, together with Kim, they were grown ups, you know, when they made a conscious decision that they were going to sell the Kim Crawford brand. And they could look at it with an understanding of what that meant for their future vineyards. But you and your generation you were not grown ups when the name was sold. So you've literally grown up with your name, your family name being attached to something that you had no control over, whether it was in the news, or whether it was in popular culture. Can you just talk about that a little bit, what that experience is, or how maybe it's different from someone who knowingly sells their their identity in that essence? Yeah. It was, you know, it was actually both my dad and his generation and our generation that didn't have the control. I mean, we all lost out on that. I was the oldest. I am the oldest in our generation and, so I was twelve at the time. So pretty young to even kind of realize what that meant. However, you know, in the years since. It's, obviously, it's it's funny when I used to take my kids into the grocery store and we'd walk down the row and they'd see the box wide and they'd be they'd and I'd say, yes, that's my name. And on the side of the box, there's a picture of my ancestors. My family is on the side of this box, and I had to say to my daughters, hey, look at that. There's your family on this box of wine that we have nothing to do with. So You know, it it it's hard, especially, you know, I kept my maiden name. And, whenever I sign something or go somewhere and people are like, oh, Francia. Yeah. We love the box wine. Well, you know, I just all I can say is, oh, good. You know, I I cannot go through the whole history of it. So I just agree with them. Thank you. Yeah. Just own that you are a part of popular culture. Yeah. I love whether you wanna be or not. I love all the bag in the box, college videos, hilarious. In many in many families, in many, like, multi generational families, what you see is that the boy children go into winemaking and production and the girl children go into sales and marketing. And that didn't happen in your family. You are the winemaker. You've been a winemaker for over thirty years. You worked with dozens and dozens of brands. So sort of all, of Francia aside, you have incredible winemaking experience. She's come out of, of this heritage and you work with one of the largest winemaking companies in America until about four years ago. What happened four years ago? Carol? Well, four years ago, I kind of felt like I'd I'd maxed out, basically, in my in what what I could do. And, by that time, two of my brothers have left the business. And we were already kind of looking forward to what what what can we do now? So, you know, between kind of now at this point having like other ideas in my head, and being the winemaker at this business where I I think I'd talked out. I I was kind of torn at that point because my mind was elsewhere a lot. But, basically, what happened was I think that our We had we had vision. We had a vision. My my brothers and I had a vision and, but we didn't have the power to make that vision a reality. And, and, you know, it was, it was, it's so big. It, you know, it it would be like trying to start a train. You know, it was it would be a lot of work to try to get that vision, that we saw actually on track. So, Just can I interrupt there really quickly? Yeah. I think that this is something that maybe people who aren't watching these big multi generational wine companies don't understand that there is a momentum that exists that just is that that inertia in a sense is going to push forward and trying to break out of that or move in a different direction is not always feasible. And it it's not necessarily that the momentum is a bad one. It's just that we look at it and we and we love these stories, hundred years of winemaking, and this is so awesome. And you've been around forever, but the downside of it maybe isn't something that we see a lot of, which is simply that if you wanna do something independent or innovative or in any way different, you have to find a way to do that on your own. So that's what that's what you and your brothers have been working on for four years now. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. We we we took a big chance. As I've said, we, you know, when most of my friends, especially, because I'm not much older than my brothers, you know, when most of them are talking to me about planning on retiring and what they're gonna do and where they are retired, you know, my brothers and I are starting over, with a whole new business. But, you know, we we all don't sit down very well. It was never in the cards that we were going to be retiring because, you know, my dad is almost eighty three and he hasn't retired. And this is kind of the way our family work works, and we worked till we draw. Theresa did not retire. No. Theresa did not retire. No. So, yeah. So my brothers and I, my, my third brother, quit a year later. So by twenty nineteen, we were all on our own. We had a my father had a piece of property that was really strategically located on a on a major highway in California between the San Francisco Bay Area and New Seventy National Park. And it's a very busy highway, especially in the summer, especially on the weekends with all the tourism. And we were thinking for years, where that would be a great spot to have a winery and there are no tasting rooms on this highway even though there are two wineries on the highway. And there are people mostly what we were thinking about was the fact that people are driving through this area, which is really the bread basket of America. You know, it's it's all agriculture. It's it's almonds and peaches and grapes, and it's everything you can imagine. And these people are driving through here, and they don't even realize that they're driving through an area where their food is being grown. What's interesting to me is that you, for, you know, you say that you're at an age when most people are retiring, and you have launched serendipitously, you have launched an enterprise that is so tied in to what younger generations are looking for in their consumption and in their experiences. A lot of this came from my brothers and me just I think watching what was happening with what people are looking for and and watching, you know, hearing people that don't understand where food's coming from talking about farmers and talking about water usage and all that kind of stuff that kind of, you know, I think kind of sticking your craw when this is this is where you lived and worked all your life and for generations before you and And it and it sounded like people weren't really understanding. And I think that that's what kind of got us moving in this direction. So, you know, the winery was important to us. We couldn't do without a winery, but kind of our main focus was that we wanted to be a place where we could educate people. So we're fourth generation in this in this area, and we're fourth generation farmers. All of us have vineyards or orchards or whatever. And, and it it just seemed a natural move to kind of promote we wanted to be the ambassadors of the area promoters. When people would stop in, we could say This is where your food comes from. It doesn't come from the store. And that's why before we started the winery, we started with the farm. So we have a very small three acre farm, where we grow you know, all your standards, the tomatoes, and peppers, and all that kind of stuff. And, and then we have a small farm stand and we open for the summer and people come in and buy local, fresh. And as of this year or last year, we were finally certified organic food. One of the one of the things we say all the time is that people need to understand that farmers were the original sustainable people. Because what would be the point of your farmers your livelihood if you're not if it's on a sustainable farm? And you just lost your livelihood. So we're trying to impress this on the people that come by and just say, look, can you walk the farm? You can go pick a tomato if you want. You can go pull a carrot out of the ground. You can do whatever. And then we can't educate them because people have questions and where they're getting their answers is not always from the source. So, we're there we're there to educate, to promote, to, you know, make our part of the valley something that people understand. What what's happening here? So you have Zincouse Farm. The the name of your enterprise is Zincouse Farm. What I find, really interesting about it is that as you say, you didn't start with wine. You started with agriculture and tourism, so agritourism, which is a growing category of experience. Now you sit just outside of San Francisco. And since I do have a mandate to talk about business and communication and marketing, I'm really curious. What have you seen in audience audience as it were? Consumer expectations? The people who are coming to the farm stand because, like, what are their interests? I won't try to answer that question for you. People who drive up from San Francisco. What's their feedback on what you're doing? The main thing that we hear all the time is I love your vibe, which is interesting because it it's a farm stand under a tent and it it's a little unique setup. Now I think they really enjoy talking to people who are actually doing the work. We're very customer friendly. And so we're unlike anything on the route up to the city up to the city and to use somebody. And, you know, those p these are the people. Basically, we're getting the people to shop at Whole Foods coming to see us, and they're getting a much better deal. Because as I tell them, well, it doesn't take any diesel to get the food over from the other side of the farm to this side. And they really appreciate that. Right. You know, you know, the buttons to hit. And, and, and they just we get returned customers all the time because they just organic is the first thing they ask when they come in. Is this is this organic? So to be able to say yes is a plus because nobody else on the highway is doing organic we will only sell local, produce, which mean what we grow or what we can get from our farmers in a thirty mile radius. Literally, we do not go outside that line. So everything we have in our farm stand is extremely local and fresh. And people love that. One of the things that does really impress me is that all four of you are very driven toward the sustainable decisions that happen at Zink house farm Now there's not a lot of information out there in the public because you are still in the build phase. You've got the farm stand, which is in itself currently being rebuilt. After several years now, you do have a winery that is being built. Can you talk a little bit about the choices that you've made for that winery? Yeah. So, yeah, my brothers and I, when we went into this, we we wanted to do it with with with everything in mind sustainability and and integrity. As far as the winery is concerned, we're we're we're looking, you know, we're building a winery that's a high energy mass winery, meaning the walls on this winery are so thick and so insulated that we will not be using any electricity to cool the winery down. We won't be blowing, you know, air conditioning in there, which takes a lot of power. The the winery will cool itself. So this building is a it this is the building is kind of gonna be our our touchstone. For our property. This is gonna show what can be done. To to build something that can basically kinda take care of itself. We're not gonna need a lot of power. We're not gonna need a lot of light because we're gonna have the windows around the top. We're not gonna need the air conditioning. We're not gonna need all that kind of stuff that a lot of big wineries need. There's no ammonia system, you know, that toxic ammonia So we're trying to keep it very, very down to earth, literally, very down to earth. How do you balance the educational component with the alcohol component? So we want we want this to be a very family friendly place to stop on your way up to the mountains or or even just on a day trip. There aren't a lot of places in our area, and we've heard this more than one time. There's just no place to go. Here and and there isn't. And so we want this to be all inclusive, basically, that everybody can can find something. So, having the farm on one side and we do classes. We do bring schools out. A lot of homeschooling moms come out almost every week during the summer. We have kids out there. We take a little tour. They pick some vegetables. They do a craft. They have a sandwich in, and they run around and have a great time. We will have areas, built up where the kids can hang out, and it's all absolutely away from the winery. But we do have kinda that middle ground where between the winery and the foreign area, there is going to be, you know, a place where adults can sit and have a glass of wine, and the kids can run around and play. A bit of research. So when I was going in and prepping for this interview, one of the things that you have a little cult following for that I think is so just lovely and family oriented, like, really understanding your audience. And that's why I wanna talk about this. Are your bathrooms? Yes. So you're you, you have triplets. Yes. I do. And that has played a pretty big part in how you've designed a Zink house farm. So tell tell the audience about those toilets. It it has. Well, I have girls. So that makes it different. Now if they were triple boys, I may not be as bathroom conscious. But, along the quarter that we're on, there's some fast food places, and there's these other farm stands that, you know, they have outhouses. And where my brothers and I started this whole project before we did anything we put before we put a stick in the ground or moved any dirt and told my brothers no matter what else we do, we are gonna have the best bathrooms on Highway one twenty. And they got it. I mean, they understood because that would be, you know, I hate to say that that's our our gimmick, but people will stop there because they know that we have really nice bathrooms. And and so basically we we had a custom VIP trailer built in New York and shipped over to us across the country because that's how serious we work about having the best bathrooms and there's nothing more satisfying than having somebody come out of the bathroom and come over to the farm stand and say, those are the nicest bathrooms I've ever seen, and they're and they're not they're portable. It's it's it's a it's a portable bathroom now saying that have said that. We are building the nicest bathrooms on highway one twenty. So, you know You know what you know what I love about that story, though, is that so we always talk about in marketing, oh, how do we get more customers? How do we make people love us? How do we build loyalty? Like, these are all things that we discuss. And we have this, this discomfort around value and marketing. But, actually, this is the sweet spot of it. Right? So we're like, okay. What's the thing that we can do that drives love, that drives loyalty, that people talk about, but actually is enormous value to them. And that's the trade off. And I I hope that everybody's listening will go out. You know, we say things like shop your site. You know what? Go shop your loo. Go use go go check out and think about how does this compare to everybody else? Cause tiny tiny things make so much difference. The farm stand besides being the, you know, promoting agriculture and trying to be an educational forum. The farm stand is really our our marketing tool. And it's our marketing tool to get people to know that there's gonna be a winery there because, you know, this road, we have people three years later still coming in and saying, I didn't know you were here. So you know, we we we have to work hard in this area to get some attention. And, the farm stand was a way of people bringing people in and saying, oh, and by the way, you know, oh, we really like your farm stand. Oh, great, by the way. Next year, we'll have a winery in a tasty room and then their eyes line up. I wanna make this something that people will be they'll leave after after after spending time with us and leaving. They'll be like, man, that was I can't even explain what that was. I can't even describe what that was because I'm a Disneyland fan. I've only gone a few times in my life, which is probably why I'm so fan because I never get to go. But when I'm there, I can hardly enjoy the rise and stuff because all I'm looking at is there's not a dead flower. There is not a piece of garbage. Everything is and the people that you work with. It the whole Disneyland thing amazes me. And I told my brothers at the beginning, This is gonna be Disney. I don't I don't want stuff, you know, I don't want palettes showing behind the winery. I don't want equipment sticking out. If people are gonna walk through there and they're not even gonna know what they don't know. And when they leave, they're gonna be like, man, that was I don't even know why that was so great. Do you know what I find interesting about that Carol is that I've often, jokingly said that Napa is the Disneyland of wine. But that's not it it doesn't have the same meaning to what you're talking about. Like, when I say that Napa is the Disneyland of Wine, I talk about it. It's all considered. You know, there's there's no arbitrary decision and the presentation of Napa wineries. I know that's a generalization, not always true that sort of thing. That's not what you're talking about, though. You're not talking about the the business side. You're talking about the customer experience is going to be immersive. Exactly. It's it's the experience side that I'm talking about. I thought you were talking about the lines in Napa. You know, they're kinda like the lines that isn't there. It can be, and the ticket cost is getting higher and higher and higher And so with that in mind that this idea that it's going to be immersive, we've got wine effectively as a farm good, you know, as an agricultural product. So taking away stripping back some of the glitz and glam of it, making really good wine, but showing how it is as much a part of the earth as the tomatoes that we're selling, and the arugula that your brothers are picking and bagging themselves, and and really just to kinda go back to Theresa in a in a way, and really reminding us that California is the heartland of so much of the hands in the dirt agriculture that it's easy to forget when we look at the glamour of the West Coast. Yeah. This is this is this is not the glamorous part in in that sense of the word. But I consider this the real part. I mean, I know that people that have never been to California, they picture it all, you know, Long Beach's, you know, basically. And, yeah, the Pacific Coast Yeah. Highway. Yeah. And it's beautiful and it's fabulous, but, you know, and and actually, you know, there is some fruit, food still grown in that area. But for the most part, No. And, and and, yeah, we all love to be that tan beauty on the beach, but somebody's gotta feed people. And, there are people here that have been doing this for generations just like we have. The crops aren't the only thing with roots in the ground. You're you are Wow. What a way to end that interview as a Californian that really resonates with me. Thank you so much, Carol Franza, for giving up your time today. And thank you for listening to this week on the Italian Line podcast. The Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with daily episodes. Tune in each day and discover all our different shows. Be sure to join us next Sunday for another look at the world of wine marketing. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. 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