Ep. 970 Chinedu Rita Rosa | Uncorked

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong. From the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding course? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Hello, everybody. My name is Holly Hammond, and you are listening to Uncorked, the Italian wine podcast series about all things marketing and communication. Join me each week for candid conversations with experts from within and beyond the wine world. As we explore what it takes to build a profitable business in today's constantly shifting environment. This week, we welcome Chinedu Rosa, founder of vines by Rosa, and cofounder of the upcoming Bordeaux mentor week. Can I do as one of the very first certified wine experts in Nigeria and has channeled her over twenty years of wine expertise, helping European wine brands embrace and navigate the West African markets? But even more, she's bringing her Nigerian heritage to her European home, hosting hands on wine and food events that showcase the myriad possibilities when we think beyond our borders. Let's get into it. Good morning. Chineadu, thank you so much for joining me today for this podcast recording. I have heard the best things about you so welcome. Oh, such a pleasure, buddy. So I have a couple things that I wanna talk about today. You are working with the lovely and talented Jane Anson on Bordeaux Mentor Week. You're her partner in that. But also, you are our you know, you are our board of woman on the ground for the Nigerian wine market, which has fascinated me to kind of watch its growth and and and look at some of the data over the years. I think we're gonna talk about both of these things. That's cool. But but first. Just, you know, you and I have not had a chance to meet in person. So we're gonna do it right here for everybody to hear. Tell me a little bit about or tell me a lot about Vines by Rosa, which is your company, your endeavor. It's based in Bordeaux. Yes. And and sells wine in Nigeria export wine storage area. Exactly. Talk to me about that a little bit. Okay. So my story is quite weird. Not from the wine drinking family. And, I just started I enjoyed wines because my uncle who is an archbishop, he used to live in Rome. And he would bring a couple of really lovely Tuscans back to Vegas. And If you know Nigeria, Nigeria is actually a beer drinking country, and we love cold drinks. It's quite hot, thirty four degrees and above. And, yeah, people like refreshing drinks. So We come from a country of beer drink because when my dad wasn't a beer drinker, he wasn't really much of a drinker at all. But, you know, had what's what the hat wants. So the first time I tasted, a good bottle of wine, red wine. I was, like, taken. And this was when I was sixteen. And I was just like, oh my god. This is what I wanna be drinking for the rest of my life. It was so nice. It was so It was just delicious. Right? And some people at the beginning, you either love it or you hate it. But for me, it was really instant love. And, I just would tell my dad, like, instead of beer? Can we just get a bottle of wine? Can we whenever we travel, can somebody get us a bottle of wine? And I didn't know what, like, I didn't even know a melo from a cavani sauvignon. I didn't know any of that. I was just like, beautiful wine, you know. And yummy. Yeah. It's so yummy. It's delicious. And, as time went on, I fell in love got married to a Lebanese guy who were they were importing wines in Nigeria. He was in Nigeria. Of course went through all the school and everything, but still drinking wine when I could because it was not very often you find, wines in Nigeria, but friends would travel when we travel, we will bring a couple of bottles. And I would savor it. Like, I would save it. Keep my little wine. Unfortunately, you know, it's not like today that we have various, ways to save the wine. It was much better. So, I have, you know, years later, he was importing wines from, France. And, I started tasting wines from France through him. And this was a big revelation for me because I was actually drinking crappy wines. And before you've been drinking crappy minds. Like He brought crappy wines. Oh, okay. A husband of mine brought crappy wine. Like, the company, we're bringing wines that where, you know, the wines that says drink with fish, drink with beef. And I had listen, I had tasted a good stuff. That's like, boy, this is not gonna fly. This is just not it. And, the good thing was I had partners. He has friends. They were all working together. And he said, so could you do better? Do you I mean, do you know what you would like? And I would go to the stores and there was quite some nice supermarkets then, and I would get a couple of bottles that I know about, and we would try them. And I would say, Okay. See, this kind of wine. This would make more sense. But he was like the price And this was in Lagos? This was in Lagos. This was in Lagos. All the Lagos. And this we would look at the price factor. And he's Lebanese. So we would go to Lebanon, and they were very, oh my god. Huge, beautiful wines from Lebanon, and he comes from a place called Hamdun where it's it's in a it's in a mountainside. And we have fabulous, the terroir de is amazing. And there's one of very good Lebanese wine being made from there. It's the Chateau Bellevue. And, no, it's not called Chateau Bellevue. I think it's just Bellevue, but it's excellent. And I have property in that very area where they plant vines. So we just sell the vines. We sell I mean, we sell the grapes. They they just cultivate the land because it's a perfect. It's totally sloped south, like, in an amazing area. So that's interesting. I didn't realize that, along with your, your Legos enterprises, you actually are part of the production side as well. So you you kind of have it both coming and going? Yeah. For my production side, because I studied it, I love it. I can't I'm I'm like, I would not tell you that I am producing wines, but I love when it's time for blending. I have gone through all the process. I have studied. I have, you know, become on the study for a winemaker just, you know, spending time with them, looking at the process, learning. I love it. I love it. It's it's just incredible what they can do with a whole barrel of grapes turning it into wine. For me, it's very biblical. Like, jesus turning this into wine, but here is a man actually turning grape juice. We can still do miracles. We can still perform miracles. Exactly. So, okay, without without dating any of us too much. I know that that the Nigerian wine industry didn't actually really start growing until sort of nineteen nineties. Which means that for yeah. So for someone like me, at my age, I would have just been entering my adulthood at the time that the Nigerian industry was growing up. Exactly. What is that like to to grow up in a space where this isn't a part of your cultural heritage? And then to try to find the opportunities, find the wine, make, you know, develop a friend group or a professional group that also has the knowledge and experience. And the reason I ask this is This is actually an issue that we're seeing nowadays in the wine industry where it's becoming harder and harder Mhmm. To onboard people Yeah. Who who are not enamored or who themselves are not part of that romanticized view. Right? It's like they act come in because they really love the product and they want to understand how it's made sold, and consumed. So what was that like growing up in that space? Yeah. But I because like I said, I I grew up, you know, beer drinking society. Yeah. And, tasting wines because it's if you're lucky enough, so this I have to really emphasize this. There is a setting background, like, you would never have tasted wine before. Like, in the nineties, you would never have tasted one before. I am going to be getting to the same camp as same contact very soon. And I grew up, like you said, I was in my school in the nineties. Right? So I was like, there is no wine, but I can't tell you that I miss it because it's not part of my culture. It was just because I I I tasted it and I liked the way, like, I even it's like, you know, trying to be this person. I enjoy the fact that you have a glass of wine. You can talk while you have it. It's like the beer. You have to use like a timer. You have a cold beer in your hands. You need to finish it at the setting time. When it gets warm, it's Well, that's how you know when your barbecue's done. It's based on how many years you take it. Exactly. So I shouldn't see that. Exactly. But you would not without in mind, I mean, you you were so lucky that you had the archbishop who could bring you. And and it was amazing lines that you started with. Yeah. But you wouldn't have had, you know, a friendship group or a professional group or any kind of support or anything that would help you be like, right. This is how you're gonna grow and turn this into a financially stainable. No. At all, as a matter of fact, I think when I drink wine, people look at me bad, like, what I mean, what is she trying to prove? Right? In in Lagos? In Lagos, in Lagos? In Lagos, he killed the nineties. Like, late nineties. When I met my late husband, it was in the nine ninety nine. And in two thousand, I was working in the bank. I was, like, I I was around people who were educated, who were well traveled. Right? Sure. But it still wasn't a culture thing. It wasn't something they would just do open a bottle of wine. So to come back to your question, the fact was The wine was also something you look. It's it's not unreachable, but it's something that you look forward to. Like you want to aspire to be from what you would drink wine. Right. Right. Which is not to be fair. Yeah. That's not completely removed from the experience that a lot of peoples are around the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. But you want to be drinking here. Yeah. You want to be drink. Like, you look like as a woman, even Nigeria, that's one thing some people don't know. Nigerian women were really, absent from alcoholism, from alcohol, I mean, not alcoholism, from alcohol. Women consumption, they were not drinking alcohol. You were seen, like, a bit loose. If you were drinking alcohol in those days. Interesting. So that was another thing. So women would and because they don't wanna drink beer, they they they drink stout. Nigeria has the largest after Ireland, the largest plant. Interesting. Yes. For some very interesting. Yeah. Okay. So I I wanna talk more about my about Nigeria, but I actually want to jump into the Bordeaux mentor week. Yes. That you are organizing or that you have organized. I mean, this is you've got your select done. This is done. Right? That you've organized. So I think when we interviewed Jane, Jane was my my inaugural guest on this podcast. Oh, that's really much. I don't know that the boredom mentor week had been announced at the time. Okay. So tell me a little bit about what it is. Mhmm. And then I wanna talk about how it came to be and how all of that experience being, you know, an an up and coming Nigerian wine expiry all those years ago has led to this moment. Well, honestly, I think the beauty about the partnership they have with Jane is that we're so different, but so alike. We we we talk differently. We appreciate things differently, but we always I mean, from the first day we sat down together, we looked at each other. We're gonna be friends. You know, it was so funny, but there were things and and we got to talk. We we have so many friends in common, but we got to talk seriously when she interviewed me about the verse diversity in Bordeaux. And that was, at least she did for Decanta. And it was such a very, like, it was such a liberating experience for me to actually talk to somebody who was asking me the right questions. Right? How did how do I feel here in Bordeaux? And then after that discussion, I think we looked at each other and she's like, what are we going to do about this? And I'm like, Jane, I am doing my part. My part is to encourage more people to learn about wine to host wine tastings. I do wine tastings in Chateau's privately with guests with Nigerian food. And when I'm in Nigeria, I have been doing tastings in two thousand and eight, Because after I was in Lebanon and my husband died, I moved back to Nigeria. And I worked with his friends and we had the XO wine stores, and that was my opportunity to really grow in the wine business. Like you were asking me how and How did I get into it? That was my opportunity because I now run a wine store, a wine carb. And this wine carb was really amazing. It was the first of its kind in Nigeria. We had all wines from Bordeaux, over three hundred and fifty brands. And from the great Grand Cruise from Obrignon to to Chateau, we were selling everything. Chevron. We would have private collectors. And this was where I understood, and it was such a lovely thing to see because I had just come back from Lebanon. I had had this experience in Lebanon with the wine world. Were coming into Nigeria and seeing that things had changed between two thousand and four and two thousand and six that, like, two thousand and eight that I came back, people had already started going into the wind. We already were important serious numbers of champagne. Like, I mean, huge quantities of champagne. I well, and it was that champagne was a primary wine market for a very, very long time. I under stand that that is shifting a little bit now to more and more still line, but the Yes. Still line is, like, compared to the value of the the champagne on the market in Nigeria. That, unfortunately, this is still line, that is mass purchase or mass consume is a much lower lower quality. Value. Very good. Yeah. Lower quality. And and and this is my problem because, I was somebody was asking me, do you do only for the wines? And I said, no. I actually worked with Italian companies. I worked with Spanish companies, but one of the things that I hold very dear to my heart, and that's why vines by Rosa even came about because I was living here. I I I after running XO wine stores, in an import company wholesale retail. I was meeting a lot of French winemakers. I was meet they come to Nigeria, and I came to Bordeaux at a Coltevant. I was doing my courses there. I would I would travel. I would spend time here. I wanted to get more knowledge. I wanted to get the French knowledge. Right? And I was doing that because I wanted to really be able I learned wine about wine through tasting wines. This is the truth. I wasn't I didn't I didn't do any I didn't go to any school at the beginning. I was just testing regularly and developing my own idea of what good wines should should taste like. And that was how I became who I am today. The study was one thing, but the real fact is my tasting of wines and my exposure to these wines was what made me more determined to become better to now think about it professionally. So you're in Lagos. You have this top notch groundbreaking cuff Yeah. With a full range of especially, bordeaux. Yeah. But, you know, the whole thing. Yeah. Should have been the whole thing? Yep. You're really on the ground floor of building a market. Yes. That doesn't exist. So the the reason I bring this up is, you know, we have this constant debate in line about how do we onboard new audience? Yeah. And I think to myself, well, we've got an example here in Nigeria. The market that didn't exist thirty years ago. We can actually look at it instead of all of us around pontificating around, oh, it's entertainment or it's education or it's tourism or, you know, it's Tuesday night taste or whatever it is. Right? They were like, well, what did they do? How did they? How did they actually grow the market? Exactly. So what was I mean, other than the love, which I don't think that we can discount, what did you see was most effective for growing that that audience. Was it entertainment or education or experiences or travel or, you know, social media influencers? No. There was no. Nope. This is your job. No. But it's very funny because this is one of the words I really hate influencing nonsense. It's not part of my it's not in my agenda. It's not in my itinerary. Actually, when people start following me and you have nothing to do with wine, I delete you because you you end up having to do with me. I don't want followers. I want people who are interested in what I'm doing. Don't follow me if you are just looking for pictures. Right. Right. So the real thing that works with Nigeria, and this is why what I'm doing on Friday is so important for me is actually tasting the wines with our local dishes. This I'm telling you, it's it's it's it's it's was just One day, we normally get our cheese from a particular store in Vegas. It's a French shop. We were doing the normal European tasting. And then one day they didn't have cheese. And because I have already started with the education like you spoke about, we do tastings, we invite people when we bring new wines, we tell them, come try this. If you like it, We're not even giving you, oh, it is so five years old, all the grammar and the the bullshit. Yeah. The bullshit that goes with, you know, trying to sell people what they don't need. For me, it's all about really, finding what is your bliss in wine. What glass makes you say, what glass of wine makes you say, I wanna sit down with my wife and have a good chat. But this is what this is what is important. It's not you telling me what I should taste in the wine. You have the right to tell me what I should taste. I will decide what I'm tasting. And I just want the people to spend. Non judgemental. Nobody was trying to say, I smell the black currant here. The blossom because, seriously, we don't even have some of the smells. When I went to when I started my we set courses, this was one of the first things I told my my teacher. I said, listen, I am I am lucky and blessed enough to be somebody who has lived abroad, who've traveled. But come on. We don't even know most of the smells you're talking about. First of all, you guys need to expand your your vocabulary. You need to expand your mindset to encompass the world. It doesn't mean I smell plantains in wines. I smell something staff root, the African staff between wines, and I can't explain it to you. So don't tell me what I'm tasting. I know what I'm tasting. And all that matters is I like it. Oh, I don't. Amen. Yeah. Maybe to Well, I mean, I I interviewed. I interviewed Jim Morris, who is from Charles Krug in Napa. And, I mean, he's been in the wine industry forever. And what he said is, look, you got two kinds of wine as a drinker. You got yummy wines? Yeah. You got yucky ones. Exactly. Thank you. And that's it. The discussion around food and language, we've been talking about this with the Chinese audiences for years that you go in and to try to even even structure a meal in the way that, that the Western World East, which has one dish one wine, one dish one wine, one dish one. Like, this this is not culturally how everybody else on the planet eats. So what happens when you've got nine dishes, and you're, you know, you're you're trying to do a tasting. So This is actually, I think that this is such an important part of the conversation because five years ago when we were having this discussion, huge pushback. The pushback that we got, and I'm sorry to say a lot of it did come out of the old world and it did come out of France is. Of course. Well, you just have to learn to drink the way that we drink, which is such a slap in the face. I mean, good consumer, yeah, face to market. I totally refuse that. And this is And maybe this is why I am seen as somebody who does I don't give a damn about your rules. I do mine. It's my way or the highway. You don't wanna work with me. Very good. I mean, There's no there's no trash. There's no fuss. I'm good with what I'm doing. Yeah. And this is why for my tastings, I actually taste up to three wines with one dish. And then you choose what suits you. You choose the one. I'm not telling you, you have to like this wine with this food. You're gonna have a choice. There's gonna be two. There's gonna be three. And for each dish, you try each of this wine with that same dish. And you choose what is good for you, what you are comfortable with, what you say is yummy. I might say it's yucky and some of these days is yummy, but I need to give you choices. You can't force people to put them in the box. This is This is one of the things that drive me crazy here. They wanna put you in a freaking box. No. I refuse to be put in a box. You are not my maker, so you can't put me in a box. So so you've got, you've got the border tastings that happen in Nigeria, but what I'm really curious about is, are you bringing that the other way? Where you have Nigerian experiences talk to me about it? Yeah. Come on Friday, this very Friday, I am hosting the second of the edition of the African food and wine tasting in Bordeaux. In Bordeaux on the seventeenth Sounds good. In the evening, I did the first one in Paris, which was a huge hit. We had over twelve wines. Twelve. Yeah. Minus the champagne with ten dishes. And each of them were paired with two two two and then we did a twist and a shake off and like or I prefer the made up with the jollof fries. I prefer the the vegetable soup. I mean, people were actually tasting. And I'm saying this truthfully, out of fifty people, there were twelve nationalities at the event. Twelve nationalities, more than half of them have never tasted Nigerian food before. And it was an experience that for me, it was so, gratifying because this is what I do in Lagos We started tasting food with Nigerian dishes and people were now the elements that makes a wine yummy is the way you feel and the way you feel when you're eating your native dish is different from when you're being forced to eat salad across the chicken or whatever. My spice is more delicious than anything else in the world as far as I'm concerned, no matter the kind of food you give me from wherever else you're from, what I am I am is what is gonna make me feel good. There's There's a great quote that has stuck with me that is what is patriotism, if not the love of the foods we ate as a child. K. And, you know, I I just remember, so I'm, American, my birth, my my heritage is actually out of New Orleans, which has one of the most fabulous, like, food cultures in America. And and I just remember going through pregnancies as an expat. And all I wanted was was someone find me Oh, go. Okra. Yes. I think someone get me ribs, proper sausage, or all the things that me were were of home. That got you. Yeah. It's okay. You're you're preparing these these incredible, African Nigerian dinner So I guess my first questions are, do you bring chefs and ingredients and everything over to actually make that authentic? Yeah. I I would tell you something. It was I love cooking, first of all. So all the ones I've been doing at the Chateau's. I had one at Chateau Darlene, Chateau Dousac, Chateau Biak, and I made all the food. I bring my spices I love cooking. I love feeding people, which is something my mom passed on to me. And but for the dinners because they are more than forty, I I have a chef. I have one in Paris. I actually have three here in Bordeaux. And for this latest one, this is a secret. You're the first person I'm telling this. There's gonna be senegalese food and Nigerian food because I don't want it to just be a Nigerian experience I want people to actually see the connection that Africa has to its food, to our taste because I don't sell wines only to Nigeria. I sell wines to Ghana, to togo, senegal, I've come around. So I want to expand the experience of everybody who comes in there to be like, from the they're gonna be snacks that we grew up on. They're gonna be so many of the British I know in New Zealand. They're not so good with spice. So, like, I I am doing that. Yeah. So what what happens is I'm gonna send you pictures later. But what happens is I'm not I'm not mean and neither am I, looking for somebody to fall sick So the truth of the matter is that the Nigerian, the way we cook is that we love to keep spice aside because I grew up with a dad who couldn't handle spice. He comes from the eastern part of Nigeria We are more milder. We love lots of legume vegetables and stuff like that, but not too spicy. Then my mom comes from a river rhine area of Nigeria where spice is life. Like, they would spice your whole bean, but so we have to find a way to make it work. So we would make we have peppers and garlic and ginger blended and fried and kept in a, you know, in a little pot while the food is made. So you spice to your taste. Nice. So that's what I brought. That's what I'm doing. With the tasting. I make the food spicy, but I not not peppery. Not inevitably. So Yes. Not peppery. There's ginger. There's garlic. There's a lot of African spice. But the not the ones that would burn your mouth because another thing about the tasting is I'm really looking for a balance between the food and the wine. If it's too spicy, the the wine will not even appear. Like, I would kill the wine. So we need so this is one of the things I teach in Lagos when I was doing this food, at the tastings. I have people who their wives would come and I would teach them how to do the balance. We would have I would have classes at the it's it's fun. Like, you know, you have women. I have days for women. Toz the nights were related and Friday nights for the guys. So we would do, like, Suya, and then we we we would do cocktails. We would make we would have wines. Different kind of wines from burgundy and wines from Bordeaux and wines from Longoda that I would, you know, we use that to determine the spice level. What kind of spice level can each wine You know, how how strong can you go? Which is, of course, also, you know, in a way or very much so. Not just in a way. It's also placing it in the context of a culture. You know, the the this is this is practical education as opposed to the, oh, I sniff this and I scroll back and you get it. But it's like, this, you know what? You wanna drink it? This is how you drink it. This is how you enjoy this. Well, you know, Polly, unfortunately, here, if you do not have that education, you know? Here. Yeah. Euro. Like, they're like, oh, I have twenty three years of experience without even before I came to board and started, you know, the experience, like, really going to classes. I know there's a lot I learned. I mean, there's a lot I learned. But really, when I'm talking to people, I'm not teaching you technicalities. I'm not really interested in it. What I want to know is how you enjoy your wine, what makes you tick, what gets into your head and makes you remember this glass of wine because we forget. But actually, when you find that thing that really talks to you, you never forget the name of the wine. You never forget the region where the wines comes from. I'm not cramming anything. I can't do that. It's too much work. I would rather let a wine tell me how I feel. And then the wine becomes my lover. You know what? This is just, I love that. This is my, my constant vein as a wine marketer, which is wine marketers can be, you know, vilified because there's there's this belief that we're manipulating or contorting facts, which is actually far from the truth. You know, good wine marketing, which is what I'm hearing when you're talking, good wine marketing, good sales, is actually about caring for that consumer's experience before we care about our pocketbook. If I, you know, if with love and care and, like, true hospitality, I'm most interested in the person who is experiencing my product, having the best moment they can with it, then that's That's what sells. That's what grows. Exactly. And do you know what darling since I left Nigeria in two thousand and fifteen? As I speak to you, I get others from Lagos. So what I do is I get my clients who are importers. I pay them weak clients from Bordeaux, from Italy, from Longo doc, from Champagne, people I think can work well together because I know both parties, you know, I know both sides. I know the importance of who is looking for a very culture. I mean, very structured company who doesn't want to, like, he he wants to play by the rules, He wants the old school wines. He doesn't want flamboyant, females. I have them. And then I have the younger ones, not young in age, but the ones who want something more contemporary, who wants a wine winemaker who is just trying out new stuff. So this is my job. I stand in between both countries or both continents to try and get the right partnership. Because when you get the right partnership, the sales comes easy because both you have the same mindset for marketing. I believe marketing is marketing to the right clients. I have clients who want sweet wines. No matter what I say. This is their taste. Why should I vilify them? Because they don't want to drink my goal. What it happens? Or, you know, I don't do. Yeah. This is where, not coming from a wine drinking culture. I think this is where it comes in because I don't have anything stuck in my head that, oh, it must be like this. I am very open. I am very I eat I would taste anything you put my way. Dan is either a york or a yum. So I have some questions around what else was coming up in Nigeria at the same time. So my understanding is that Nigeria has excelled in technology. Okay. Both technology and fashion. Two things that are surprisingly and music, really, music as well. Music, fashion, movies. We are number one movies in Africa. Yeah. And I mean, not just production. I mean, the best stars in Africa. And the music is all is worldwide. Like, no other African country gets the music gets played like Nigeria. No way in the world. So the number forty I mean, I mean, not that we have to be college professors and researchers and PhDs to answer this question, but it, you know, can we point to that sort of that globalism that the the technology that allowed us to actually be a part of a wider world, the the sharing of culture, as as part of the reason that you can now sell French, Italian, Spanish, you know, Portuguese, whatever it is, wines in a country that thirty years ago had no wine. Hundred percent. Listen. Thirty years ago, Nigeria was an entity of its own lovely country, But, you know, we're just enjoying our life. We're doing our own thing. We love to party. So beer making was NBL makes more profit than any other beer company in the world. I'm serious. We love to party. Ignigeria's party like no other person does. Right? It's twenty That's what you need to pursue the whole We party all the time. We we need some of that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm doing that, actually. If you wanna come on Friday, it it would be my pleasure because after the dinner, there is definitely music playing and people are gonna be dancing because I don't have dinner and then everybody's like, okay. It's over in the Africa. It's all about the music. It's all about the feed, the food, the ambiance. That we create. And to answer your question, yes, thirty years ago, we did not have. I I have I still have my telephone. I have to, you know, roll the dial and then and then call NMP, like, we have a nightel that we have to connect for us to be able to make calls. And the international calls were so expensive. So expensive. Like, your parents have a lock on the on the phone to make sure you Wow. So make sure you don't rock up bills. No. Oh, he's boyfriends. No way. Don't know how that left. Don't know how that Lebanese husband came about. Oh, he came to Nigeria. He was not. He was very smart. He was in Nigeria. Right? He was like, you? I got you. I'm We're good. Yeah. Alright. So, so yeah. The the the MTN came, what came into Nigeria was communications. And As you can see, I love to talk. Nigeria are ten times even talk as than I am. So even those poorest person in Nigeria has a phone, if you don't have anything, You have a phone. So we made Nigeria is the number one in telecommunications in Africa. Plus Middle East because we are two hundred and fifty million people. Wait. Some people having as much as three telephones. Mhmm. Different lines. Like a business woman, I will have three lines. From Mitel MT. I mean, from at least a lot, MTN, and one other one. Globalcom. That means you're ready for business because you don't you Nigeria is so fast paced. You don't wanna lose one second Of course, it's removing it's removing the barriers of entry. The thing about Nigeria, you have to know is that we had so much oil. We were spoiled rotten. We had too much money. We had too much money. That was Nigeria in the seventies, eighties, There was too much money. I think that was where I that was when I was growing up, and we never lacked for anything. Traveling was easy. Our money was higher than the pound. We were one and one. We're higher than the US dollar. Nigeria was there. In the sixties till we had, we became stupid, of course, and there was a war to be a from war from my part of the country. And that was the that was the beginning of the end for, the the beauty of Nigeria and the the the the economical wealth of Nigeria. The country I grew up in was just beautiful. It was a utopia. Yeah. Everybody comes to Nigeria to have fun. It was safe. It was gorgeous. It was peaceful. And today, when a country where people cannot even say what they want, Twitter. They banned Twitter in Nigeria for a while. But believe me, there's one thing I love about Nigeria that I know nobody can ever take from us is after two hundred fifty million, sixty percent climbing between the ages of eighteen. And fifty five. So we have one of the youngest economy in the whole planet. And in two fifty, Nigeria will be number three. When it comes to publishing, every I think they said every ten person, one person will be in Nigerian. Got it. So, just just kind of gonna back up. Oh, yes. You know, so you and Jane, you met. She interviewed you. You got on, like, house on fire. You asked a question. How are we going to solve this? And out of that discussion grew the boardo mentor week. Yes. So that happens in September. Is that correct? September twenty six. Yeah. You've got seven selections or is it we're living selections today? Yes. It was actually supposed to be six, but we have eight. So one of the mentees who were supposed to be a mentee treasure, Matt Conley. Yeah. Like, he is just an amazing chef. Yeah. Amazing chef. And he has so much his story is inspirational. He came from he came from hard hard life to now be somebody who makes art on a plate, makes beauty out of just vegetables. He's an amazing guy. Wait. We had over one hundred and twenty applicants where we didn't even know if people would be interested. Right? This is us saying to Guys, you guys gotta wake up. You can't have the same thing year in year out. You need to bring in people from other backgrounds. People who did not grow up with wines. Like, I didn't grow up with wines. But they have something to give you. They have something to share with you. So why don't you just open the doors a little bit more and let them come in and see what you're gonna learn? Was the response wholly positive? You don't have to name names, but when you went out for this, you know, was everyone like, yeah, high five? Were they the people who to be fair, they see it as an economic benefit, it, you know, we can talk with everyone. Like No. Truthfully, I think there was a lot of positive energy around this. And then, of course, you always have those who are like, what am I going to get from this? Right? Which is normal? Like every some businessman, they have like I said, some people are so short sighted and they are so in their bullshit. They don't even see way out. They just believe in being in their pawns. I'm the king of the pawns, and I stay here. Right? So people like that, we don't even waste our time with them. But the truth is that a lot of people were very interested, intrigued. I think what's gonna happen is that they wanna see what happens. And then next year, we will have a pick and choose. Like, we would and this is what I told Jane. This is what they're gonna do more than one. Yes. This is the plan. This is the plan. And hopefully, oh, there's a lot going on. I I can't I can't share with you, but hopefully it will be something that we would be able to move intercontinentally. I love that. Yeah. Because we we there's so many people out there that really wants the opportunity and there's something else that we noticed due to the fact that Africa is hardly represented. We would need to do better. Yeah. We would we would need to do better because that means, like, I was telling some bartenders. I know some bartenders, right, in Lagos because I was in Lagos in April. But we had already made a choice. But I told them next year because that was another reason. When I went to Lagos, I told the importers, I told my partners in Lagos. I told some people that I worked with that buy wines from my partners. There is this program. You know your best guy. You know your guy who has really attention for wine who has interest. Please. Please When it starts next year, I'm gonna send you all, and I will send you information. I will I will try to make sure that you are part of this. Okay. So here's what you gotta bring. You gotta bring the food. Yes. You gotta bring the culture. Yes. I think you gotta bring some of that kick ass mentoring. I think we need a little bit more of that light of fire under your ass Yes. Personality time, amongst, you know. Yeah. But this is what we're doing. This is what I told Jane, I'm not doing any of the, on the board. Volunteer. No. No. No. I don't do that. For me, it's one it's the way I'm talking to you. My mentorship is like this. I do not write things down. I go with the flow. How I'm feeling and how you're responding to me. I don't think book wise. Like, the textbook, Baby, does not work for me. And I don't think it helps anybody. Talk to somebody. This is what makes you a good marketer. This is what makes you good at marketing as well. Yeah. Because I feel. Exactly. Feel. Feel. Feel. If I if I'm sad, if if who I'm talking to, that means he needs empathy. He needs somebody to listen to. It's not for me to be shouting. You can do it. You can do it. No. That's not what he needs at that moment. That's not what she needs. So no life is bullshit motivational speaker for you. No way. No. That don't happen. I don't even have time for slides. Oh, look, honestly, I I love talking. I feel like we could keep going. I know you got a super busy schedule. You know, through Friday. I can't wait. I can't wait to actually hear more and see more about that. I'm so grateful to you because you did drop everything to come in and talk about this with me, and I have loved chatting with you today. Me too. Me too. If people wanna know more about Vines by Rosa Yeah. And what you're doing professionally, where do they find that? Oh, I have my website w w w dot findspice dot com. Yeah. But I'm somebody who, like I say, I prefer one on one or anything. You can contact me. I like talking to people. I like knowing what you're feeling. You know, all those all those things. Do you're idea? Yeah. So you're like, sided in ideas Yes. And we'll have a conversation. I'm a I'm a Leo, and I believe in direct contact, face to face eyes to eyes, then I know how to I I know how to help you, because I won't help you. And then if they want if people want to, obviously, they they can't this will go out on Sunday. Yeah. So they won't. Oh, see. If they wanna If they wanna hear things, follow-up, know more about the, the tastings. Yeah. They can they can they can go to my Instagram page, vines by roses, the same. Right. It's vines, not wines by Rosa, because it looks It's vines. Yes. Find my role, sir. That's my daughter that gave me that name. So it's, and my surname is Rosa because everybody always inversed the other way. So Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I'm I'm so glad probably that you And another thing I just wanna add, which is so important, it's women like you having this conversation with you as actually giving me a couple of ideas for the mentorship program because we just need to keep talking about this. We need to keep talking to people actually pay attention and make a decisive change. I don't there are a lot of people who say, oh, but I employ a black person. I have no. It has to be decisive. You have to decide from when you start your employment, from when you start looking for people to train, from when you start employing people, from when you start giving people opportunities If they wanna know about the mentor week, I know that you've got a very specific Instagram account that is for board of a mentor week. Yes. Jane is talking about it at length in her socials. Yes. Any other good place to get information or follow-up? Or is there a winery or Chateau who wants to be involved? Or they wanna say, come do it with us, man, you know? In any other country, we will be we, like, like, come. Jane has a huge fellowship. Like I said, I'm not one for ownership. But anybody who wants to contact us, we are very, very open people. You send us an email on our website. We both have our emails on our website. We read each email Great. We read each email. Please contact us because we wanna change the way people look at Bordeaux. We wanna change the way people look at the wine world as a whole. And the only way we can do it is if we do it together. That is a beautiful closing. I'm gonna leave us with that. Yep. Thank you. I I can't wait for part two. Oh, that we we are definitely having more conversation. And that's a wrap. Thank you for listening and a great big thank you to Tinnah do for joining me today. The Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with daily soaps. Tune in each day and discover all our different shows. Be sure to join us next Sunday for another look at the world of wine marketing. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benitely international dot com. For courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on Soundflower, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are admitted to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian Wine cast dot com.