Ep. 1087 Gary Green | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two. In Verona Italy, this year will be an explosively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The second early bird discount will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Welcome to voices. This is me, Cynthia Chaplin. And today, I am so pleased to welcome Gary Green. He's the co owner and CEO at Mount Yenga wines in the Hunter Valley in New South Wales in Australia. And Mount Yango is the only aboriginal owned winery in Australia, where Gary's making a huge impact by inspiring people to sort of bridge the cultural divide through educating and promoting indigenous Australian art and contributing to scholarships at the National Indigenous Colony Institute. So welcome to the show today, Gary. I'm so excited to talk to you. Alright. Thanks very much for having me, Cynthia. Great pleasure. So I know you were originally in the beef business and sort delivering Wagyu beef to food lovers all around Melbourne and Sydney. So how did you get into wine? And what inspired you to launch your original wine company, Gondwana wines in two thousand sixteen? Yeah. So Gondwana wines is actually a a bit of a bit of a brainchild of myself and, my business partner and founding partner, Ben Hansberry. I really wanted to tackle the negative stereotype around aboriginal people and alcohol But at the same time, I wanted to do it in a positive way where we promoted with authenticity, aboriginal art and culture, not only to Australia, but to the world. And at the same time, I really wanted to use this new media being a wine bottle to really break down the barriers and I guess the glass ceiling about what the perception is of an aboriginal business so that, you know, we're not just stereotyped as art, craft, and tourism business that we can be, you know, well, like you said before, you know, I I have a high end waggy business. I do a lot with native foods and a number of other products. To go into the wine business for me or the wine industry, that was my main driver. It was really about creating, I guess, social change and a change of the narrative around the perception of aboriginal people in alcohol. Well, I I love the idea of breaking the glass ceiling with a with wine bottle. I think that's that's fantastic in and of itself. I I know you went on to rebrand to from Gondwana to, Yango in twenty nineteen with your business partner, Ben, as you said. And Ben's not aboriginal. So how do you infuse your joint culture and your values and mix those together with non indigenous Australians, to to take your goals forward of you know, changing up the stereotypes. How do you and Ben, blend and and deal with, you know, a consumer base that is primarily probably not indigenous Australians? Yeah. So in two thousand and nineteen, we we rebranded the Mount Yengo and that was because, we facilitated a deal, in a with a small vignette up in the hunter Valley that sat at the base in Mount Yengo. And we got the permission from the Wana rural people which is the traditional owners of that area to use Mount Yengo as the name, which means meeting place. And we thought that was, you know, a really special name, and and it really encapsulated what we're trying to do moving forward. I think the the main thing is that everyone talks, you know, it's not just based in Australia, but everyone talks globally about reconciliation and how, you know, first nations people and non indigenous people need to work together. And I think I like to call it, you know, cross cultural hybrid economics where, you know, our business model is infused and the whole undertone of our business model is based on first nations culture around respect, respect for country or caring for country, respect for our our own people and and others. And, you know, in aboriginal culture, something's not mine. It's always ours you know, we were a tribal and and and, you know, we were a village and and we all supported each other. So I think, you know, we I bring all the cultural aspect and now, you know, we're so lucky to have, you know, the most amazing business partner who's came into our business with which is Wayne Quillam. So associate professor Wayne Quillam, Wayne Quillam's another, first nations, business person and world renowned photographer and artist. So You know, Wayne was originally our artist and brought in on the journey that Ben and I set forward. And I think it comes where to create this business model, we needed the skills of the oldest inhabitants being that cultural authenticity, that, ability of, like, like I said before, around that caring for country, and, everything else. And then infuse that with you know, our newest inhabitants, which has the technology, to be able to do the bottling, understand the wine, and everything like that. So I think, you know, it's a natural synergy together to have, you know, both cultures come together. Yeah. I love not. I think it's so important, especially these days where, you know, we're really opening our eyes to a lack of diversity and a lack of inclusion to, bring people together. And and wine is a great way of doing that in so many ways. It is a natural product, and it does require, you know, land. That can be historically and culturally important. So, that's it's a really it's a great concept of bringing those things together. You you just said also that when you founded the company, one of your underlying principles was to break the stereotype around aboriginal people and alcohol, which is usually a negative stereotype. I know you're a member of the Camulato nation. I'm sure I pronounced that wrong. Yeah. Camille Roy. Thank you. Thank you. One of the four largest indigenous nations in Australia, and your mom has Danish Irish heritage. So you come from a lot of culturally rich, you know, background How are you harnessing your background, your personal background to create such a positive story and a positive image around aboriginal people and alcohol? What, like, I'm kind of curious where that original negative stereotype came from and how you're finding ways to mitigate that sort of stigma, take that negative aspect away. Well, I think I think in any in any culture, there's, you know, negative aspects where, you know, the media sensationalized things. And I think, you know, aboriginal cultures see it, touch it, feel it, taste it. It's rich. It's beautiful. You know, like you only have to look at the art on the bottle. It pops. It's got a story behind it. It's living. It's breathing. It's not your traditional dot painted art. It's abstract, but it's got meaning and stories behind it. I really wanted to bring that, you know, to to the world. Like, I I've been lucky enough that you know, I embrace all my culture, and I embrace, you know, all my heritage. I I'm not, you know, some people ask, oh, are you half aboriginal, a half caste? Are you things like that? No. I'm aboriginal. You know, I I respect and admire, my other heritage, but I live sort of my life by, you know, those aboriginal cultural beliefs. And, you know, I've been lucky enough, you know, to get an education and to be a voice. And I think like I said earlier, for me to be able to, represent my people and my culture and do it with authenticity and and the support. And and at first, I must admit some of my Aboriginal family were like, e even they sort of bought into that narrative. You can't have an alcohol business. It can't be an original alcohol business. And I and I said, why not, why can't we, as aboriginal people, we're not all alcoholics. We're not we don't all have a problem with alcohol as alcohol problems across every culture. I said, let's really focus so that, you know, that next generation, you know, our kids are our our future. I hope that, you know, they listen to, like, podcasts like this or they see our story and they go, g u s, that young, original boy that grew up, he grew up to be able to, you know, break a break a negative stereotype, and he was the first aboriginal person to open a wine company in Australia, if I can do that, imagine what the next generation can do. And I think that's what sort of drives us, at Mount Yengo is, you know, just constantly trying to get positive media and positive affirmations, not just for our company, but for aboriginal art and culture. Yeah. Absolutely. I think back in the day, you know, we had such a so much more of a mentorship, going on, especially, you know, culturally and especially where people lived with their family. And and we've kind of lost that. So being on role model in the way that you are doing and and looking, you know, towards the next generation and and being a leader is is really important, especially when you are trying to combat, you know, a negative stereotype that could have been media created and certainly media sustained. So It's it's not an easy job, Gary. I'm I'm so impressed with what you're doing. We we know that Australia has this long history of wine production. You know, we all study it when we're we're doing our wine studies, you know, at least two hundred years of wine making there. But, you know, as you touched on, there's kind of a a dark history about it. You know, a lot of a re aboriginal people were resettled. And I know you've been working with the first nations people and aboriginal and indigenous leaders. And elders, you know, to make sure that culture is valued. You you said you got their permission to to start your winery in Hunter Valley. And you've pointed out something that I think is really important that Australian winemaking has a lot of Italians and a lot of Greeks, you know, a lot of immigrants on the ground there. And people whose culture, you know, has a lot of similarities with Aboriginal culture, family, extended family, how are you finding it? Putting all these pieces of the puzzle together, you know, to form partnerships and get get your your philosophy out there and to sort of revitalize the the indigenous Australian you know, aspect of the wine making industry. Yeah. I I I think like I like I touched on earlier, like, the media and, you know, the public always wanna focus on the negative. And I think, you know, without being toxic positive, You know, I acknowledge, and I think we need to acknowledge what's happened in the past. And then there are, you know, some truth tellings that that need to be, undertaken. But I like to see it in the light that our eyes are put in the front of our head to look forward. My grandfather used to tell me. And, you know, we need to acknowledge, like I said, what happened in the past, but I think, you know, it's so amazing to see, you know, to have You know, in in our wine business, we've got, like, the O'Leary Walker family from O'Leary Wind, you know, they're one of our winemakers. They're a reputable South Australian family that that are supporting our vision. And, you know, they're helping us make our own great wine. And and, you know, these are families who have this long tradition. And, yes, in the past, there there might have been atrocities, displacement, but Now we're getting these families to buy in under the spirit of reconciliation. And I think it I think it's great. Like, you know, I I like to think that, you know, if when we opened gongwana and then it was Mount Yengo, if we could change the narrative or the perception of what one person thought, and we could educate them, and and they they opened a wine bottle at a dinner party, and they went, oh my god, that's a really good drop of wine. That's a brose or Sheraz or an Adelaide hill I don't know? Well, what's this, what's this about this average or aren't this average? Wow. That's a good so there's a positive interaction, and I I like to think, you know, without, like I said, without being toxic positive that that has a ripple effect across the pond. And, you know, I like to think that, you know, we we say that Mount Yengo embrace the change that's in every bottle. And I think slowly, but surely, we're educating people. And and you can't educate someone until they're engaged. And I think, you know, what we're trying to do with Mount Yengo for, you know, supporting the culinary institute out there, like, you know, we're stopped free varieties, coal supermarkets through their a VINage seller's first choice, Liquama. You know, this is a major Australian retail supermarket chain that has a corporate and social responsibility, but they have brought into our product and our story to help not only sell great wine to consumers, but also to help us together as a not as an indigenous business and a non indigenous business, walk together as one to tell this story about our culture. And I and I think that's an amazing thing to be a part of. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Absolutely. It's it's so important, especially when you think about the impact of just one person, one bottle, one glass of wine at a time. It sounds small, but you do create a wave. And and I think that's that's an amazing way to to sort of promote and move forward what you're doing. And you did you mentioned about your labels and Wayne, and I know that you've been committed at at Mount Yango to these brand labels that feature art from Indigenous Australians. And I had a quick look. No. I'm not gonna lie on the web like, and many of your labels represent really strong aboriginal women, but they are not in any way, shape, or form like the dot paintings, as you said. Tell us about Wayne. Tell us about the artist and why you chose him and and what he's doing and what his images said to you that you put them on your bottles? So initially when we reached out to Wayne, like, I'm all about, you know, like I said before breaking the perception, like, You know, I I like to think I'm an undercover brother, like, you know, on a fair skin blonde haired blue eyed, proud average in Australian, you know, proud Camillaoy man. You know, I've got definitely some Danish Irish features in me. I'm gonna have also got many aboriginal, and my mom used to always say to me, you know, a son, you can put as much milk in tea as you want, but it's still tea. And I think I think based off that wire reached out to Wayne was His art wasn't a typical skeleton art or dot painted art. It was abstract, and it really showed what I like to think is the diversity of aboriginal people and aboriginal culture. From traditional aboriginal people who live in, you know, remote communities, you know, in the central desert to the coastal communities and everyone in between. You know? And I think Wayne You know, we're so lucky now that Wayne actually has become an equity partner. He started off as our artist. Now he's a an equity partner and bought into our vision moving forward. And, you know, Wayne's a a world award winning photo journalist photographer and artist. He he just recently won the Australian national portrait prize, you know, out of the whole of Australia. You know, he's an amazing, amazing human. And, you know, His art speaks volumes of our culture and him. And, you know, women in our community and in our our culture, they're our matriarchs, you know, that they are. We call mother earth, mother nature. They're the matriarchs of our society, and, you know, it's really interesting when Wayne originally did, I believe it was his luana series that that adores on on some of our bottles. They're pictures of prominent aboriginal women, but then the abstract nature, which I think is beautiful is, he actually they're all photographs from parts of country that those women come from. So if they're from the sea people or sea country that there's parts where Wayne's photographed out on country with them people of of kelp and seaweed and rocky coastlines and water, and it's all infused digitally to make, you know, that masterpiece that you know, is Wayne's art and, and he's on our bottle. And, you know, I think Wayne's worked in so many communities and with so many mob for so many years, You know, it's a real pleasure for me, like I said, as a pro proud Camilla Roman, you know, to stand there with Wayne and be able to promote this culture and continue on this, you know, cultural education journey through art, and and also want. It it I have to say when I was looking at the labels. And for anyone who hasn't seen them, I I recommend go on Mount Yango's website because they are really compelling images of as you said, like, very strong female figures within their landscape, they they really were evocative, and they spoke to me of sort of where you are and where your wine is coming from. And for me, wine can be artwork too. So I I really like the idea of taking the time to carefully select an artist whose work obviously clearly represents everything in your ethos and put those labels on the bottle. So I'm I'm I'm looking forward to actually holding one in my hand someday because the images are are really truly striking. So good choice. I think on that too, like, to, you know, further credit to mine and and what I think where art transcends so many boundaries this year at the Sydney vivid festival, the vivid light festival, which actually coincided on reconciliation week Wayne's art was actually projected as part of the light show every night, on the Sydney Harbor bridge pylons. Now, those that art, a few of those pieces of Wayne's art were actually, the labels on our bottles. So, you know, I felt so honored for Wayne and also for Mount Yango, but more so for Wayne, that this is probably one of the most other than the opera house in Sydney. If you think of Australia and you said Sydney Australia, normally people think of the opera house or the Sydney Harbor bridge. So to have this beautiful artwork projected every night for the local community to see, but also and I photographed and and videoed and and televised around the globe. What an amazing statement for reconciliation to show the diversity of Wayne's beautiful work and everything it encapsulate. Tied on one of the most prominent landmarks in modern Australia. That's that's so incredible. And you're you put it all into one sentence, tying the the entire past present and future together into one, you know, kind of living, moving, breathing, exhibition on, you know, a a world iconic landmark. That's that's really how cool. I'm gonna have to look that up on YouTube. Yeah. I'll I'll send you some I'll send you some photos. I'll send you it's it's amazing. And then like I said, earlier in in the conversation. What people need to understand about aboriginal culture is it's living, it's breathing, it's see it, touch it, feel it, taste it. So to see it come alive on the opera house, and, you know, I must admit, I was so proud for Wayne, you know, for all his hard work and everything he's done in community and the most amazing work he does with his art and his photography to have that, you know, and talking to Wayne post that you know, he was so proud and so he should have been. But that was to me as an aboriginal person. That was an amazing statement to be able to say to all of my friends, whether the, you know, black, white, blue, or brindle, Hey, go down and see my business partner. He's artwork, and some of that art features on our bottles is projected on the Harbor Bridge. And I think, you know, I I talked earlier about inspiring our young ones and our little people. It's not only, you know, first nations, young ones. It's all those every other culture that was there that saw it and went, wow. This is this is mainstream. This is what's normal now. And, you know, and I think that We all talk about reconciliation and moving forward and moving forward together as one. You know, I thought that was a really amazing and lovely statement, that brought it all together. And it's so validating for everything that Wayne is doing, everything that Mac Yengo is doing. I I love that great feeling of of acceptance and validation and and really coming together that way. But it it kinda it it gives me another question, you know, when we're talking about aboriginal place names and Aboriginal art, things like that. A a lot of these things have huge spiritual significance for Australian indigenous groups. And I'm just wondering, how you and and Wayne, I'm sure can help people draw a line between supporting and paying respect to Aboriginal culture and cultural appropriation. You know, I know when I see Australian wine in the shops, often it will have dot art paintings and things Where when are people crossing a line that they should really be stepping back and thinking about? I think, the best way is communication. That that's the key. Like, you know, if in doubt ask, and I think so many people just go out and do, instead of consultation with, you know, aboriginal traditional owners or, you know, the clan groups, and the like. And I think that's the best advice I can I can give anyone? Like, I can only speak for myself. And my immediate family. I can't speak on behalf of the Camiloi nation or on behalf of broader, you know, aboriginal Australians. I can only speak for me and my family. And I think, you know, in in that regard, it's, you know, embrace embrace that community consultation, you know, sit down. They're like, aboriginal people want they're called an average on Twosho and all of the people. They want their culture out there where, you know, it's not, you know, a top secret thing. And and I think the more that, companies and community work together, You know, I think that'll help, you know, rule out a lot of, you know, the, the cultural sort of misrepresentation that can sometimes be seen out there in the marketplace. Yeah. I agree with you. I and I think that's really wise advice too. To keep a conversation going and to ask questions if you're not sure. I think that's that's probably the best way we can we can make sure that that people aren't doing things that are disrespectful even when they have the best of intentions. So Yeah. And and I think, you know, like, it it's great that, you know, I I know my time in Australia here, we obviously have Australia Day or invasion day on the twenty sixth of January, which is always a very sort of top topic. We have reconciliation. We can made a quick debit to other big weeks, of the year. And it's great. Like, my phone rings so much, and it's so many, non indigenous people ringing me up saying, Hey, Gary. I'd like to understand what I can actually do, to support aboriginal people and aboriginal businesses, but I don't want to offend anyone. I don't want to overstep the mark. Can you guide me? You know, and it's so refreshing because even sort of five, seven years ago, my phone didn't ring like that. So it's so amazing to see in mainstream society that, you know, people are a lot more aware and conscious about what what they're doing? Well, I'm really glad that you've given people someone they can look to for answers and, you know, someone they can look to for that kind of leadership and mentorship because clearly you you're doing it in a very diplomatic and and, you know, spiritually generous way, you know, non judgmental and and really wanting the best for everyone. It's very obvious in everything you do. So, I'm, you know, that leadership, I you're very humble about it, but you are definitely giving people a point of reference, which is needed, and you're filling a gap that I think is is super important. So, I thank you for that. But I wanna I wanna go back to something you said earlier about, everything else that my Yango is doing as if that weren't enough, which is plenty. Every every bottle that you sell donations are being made to the National Indigenous Culinary Institute. So I did not know what that was myself. And so let's talk about that a little bit. What is the institute and what made you wanna get involved with them? What are they doing? Yeah. So the National Indigenous Color Institute, I'm actually lucky enough that Oh, I a year and a half ago, I got appointed as a board member to the National Indigenous College Institute. It was set up over ten years ago, by a number of prominent, Australian chefs who worked in hatted restaurants like the Neil Perries of the world, and the jewel to play who's the chief editor of, the good food guide and things like that. And it's designed to train young, aboriginal and torres strait islander chefs and put them in the fine dining and hatted restaurants in Australia. And, you know, we spoke before off there, before it came on. And I think it's so amazing that, you know, for me, being in where so much of my wine is sold in the hospitality industry to be able to be in a position to be a board member, but now to be able to help the culinary institute not rely on government grants, but a commercial outcome And I've got a simple saying you don't get social outcomes without commercial outcomes or it's not sustainable. And I think this is a great way where, you know, we as a business are actually giving back, but we're actually in investing into the future storytellers for our business and other native products, another aboriginal and torres strait islander businesses in Australia because it's elevation by association when these chefs, and we've got so many qualified chefs that are already out in some of the best restaurants in Australia. They are our natural cultural storytellers. How good would it be if you're sitting in a fine dining restaurant The chef comes out. The chef says, hey, this is a native ingredient. This is what it is. It's really well paired with Mount Yengo wines. Do you understand about the story behind Mount Yengo? Can I tell you this story? And and and I think, you know, we're in a very unique space where there was very low representation, and the Color Institute does an amazing job with our training and retention. And, you know, I give a shout out to restaurants like Rockpool group, Australia icebergs. You know, they have taken these students on, you know, Margaret at Double Bay with Neil Perry. You know, and and it's so amazing to see these backstories of these chefs, but then the pride that they're now exploring other young aboriginal and torres strait islanders, but what they're also doing is they're in a whole new sector where there was low representation before. That they're interacting with all these other people and all these other cultures, and they're passing on that positive cultural message. And I I just think that's, you know, amazing and, you know, Mount Yengo wines are so prior to our association, with the culinary Institute. And and and I and I know it'll be one that, you know, continues, forever and a day. Well, I I absolutely agree with you. I'm a wine educator myself and investment has to go hand in hand with education. It's not enough to educate somebody. You know, they you have got to give them the financial backing that allows them to continue, you know, learning and growing and being able to take up jobs in, you know, sophisticated situations. And then as you said, be the storyteller, for me, in my life as a wine presenter, the storytelling is everything. And without that, you lose the thread. It just becomes alcohol. So I I love that you're investing and educating. I think those two things should never be separated or or will just fail in our mission to be more inclusive in the industry. So No. It's a totally agree. And you have to look at our culture. I You know, we're the longest continuing surviving culture in the world. Like, you know, we've got carbon dating of over sixty thousand years for remains in Australia. We we're an oral culture. We're natural storytellers. We passed down our stories for a song dance, and orally. So, you know, it makes perfect sense that, you know, we continue in the kitchen and and in the restaurants to continue to tell the story and and pass on, you know, to all of these other other people, you know, our beautiful stories about our culture, our native ingredients, and, you know, it's been so humbling to see so many of the hatted restaurants and the fine dining restaurants around the globe you know, embracing native products. Like, this year on, the Australian television series master share. The most amazing chef Mindy Woods, and I'll I'll give her a plug, hello, sister. Mindy Woods at Kakala at Byron Bay. She's just what she's doing with native food and native food ingredients is amazing. And I think, you know, food goes with wine hand in hand. So our support of the culinary institute, not only does it educate, but it assists us as part of our marketing as well. So it's a it's a social and commercial synergy that is amazing for all parties. Everyone's a winner. Absolutely. And I wasn't gonna bring it up, but I I am a long standing decades fan of Master Chef Australia. It's my favorite of all the Masterchefs because I do think it has the biggest spirit and actually does more teaching than most of the other, master chefs around the world. So are you gonna invite master chef up to Mount Yango? Oh, well, Mindy Woods is so generously offered to, stop the wine at Kakala, which is a aboriginal inspired restaurant in Byron Bay on Banjalang Country, very close to where I live now. And, you know, I'd love to get, you know, some of the master chefs or, you know, any of those cooking shows where they could come up and actually cook on country, and hear that story, but not only from me, but, you know, one of the things that, you know, part of that education process is getting some of those chefs out with the traditional owners where those native products come from and where our wine comes from. And actually, talking to a local traditional owners in the local mob and hearing their story, like, you know, I see my anger as a great conduit in the connector for people to, you know, dip their toe in the water around Aboriginal art, culture, But then hopefully it's just the first step on a long and continuing journey and a and a journey of lifelong learning around our culture and embracing that acceptance of our culture. Well, it it it's also so interesting how the education has has spread globally by, you know, television programs like master chef, Australia, where I think, you know, people in in Iowa, in the United States or, you know, Barkshire in the UK or Verona here in Italy, you know, never heard of Myrtle or any of these other things and have learned so much, through that exposure. So I think what you're doing, getting exposure out there, creating these alliances with with chefs with the institute is is educating more people than you know and and having a a broader reach than than probably you expected when you started. Yeah. It's been it's been amazing. Incredible. Totally amazing. Like, our once stopped everywhere. Yeah. It's incredible, except not in Italy, unfortunately. We have to rectify that. Well, not yet, but we we are we are work we are working on expanding. Like I said, You know, we're in the United States already, through a really amazing company called Legend Import, and that started our little journey there. You know, we've got Coles, like we said, earlier, with the national contract for free veridals, and they've been an amazing supporter. Well, yeah. You just signed that deal not long ago. Congratulations. Yeah. No. Thank you so much. So tell tell me about tell me about this deal. What you've given them three varietals. What have you given them? What's going out there? So that's a Sharaz, a pinot green, a sparkling. Mhmm. And I think, you know, they there's something there for everyone. And I think they're very popular varietals here in Australia it gives us good market coverage across the board, to to tell that message. And, you know, it's been very well received. Coles actually came as part of reconciliation week. They brought near thirty of their senior management across the liquor business, the indigenous engagement team and strategy and management. And I actually came to a wine tasting, but it was more than a wine tasting it was. A cultural immersion experience put on by Mount Yenga, where, you know, we sat around and we all talked and we, and we all shared and Wayne spoke about his art firsthand. And I spoke about his experiences and my experiences and the journey and You know, it was so amazing to see so many of these high level executives and category managers for such a major organization have such buy in for our product and our story so that they could go back and educate you know, their staff further on, on our story. And I think that was just, you know, phenomenal. Yeah. It's incredible, especially when you've got, you know, a partnership going with such a huge, you know, corporate organization like Kohl's. To They handle, the majority of our, wholesale. And it was so amazing big food. Got ten of their, sales staff on an hour call with Wayne Ben and myself to learn our story and learn about our product and learn about our culture and our our not only our value proposition and our price point, but all of these other all these other intrinsic capital that they've gone out now to their clients. And, you know, they've got they've gotten the most amazing traction and opportunities that, here already, but also in the pipeline. It's another major corporations here in Australia, which we're really, happy, to be part of that sort of big food network as well. So all of this that you're doing, sounds like you don't have one single free minute in your in your day. But I I do wanna ask you. I always ask this question when I find somebody as inspiring as you are. And I can tell, you know, that you you are full of ideas and you're so passionate about what you do. So I have to ask you, what are your hopes and dreams for Mount Yanga? Over the next couple of years, you know, you you are filled with, sort of this verve for what you're doing. And I just wanna know, you know, what outside of the box things have you got in mind coming up? Yeah. So we're we're obviously looking at expanding our our export markets. We definitely like to go over to Italy. We're working currently, with the United Kingdom. But one of the other projects that we've been looking at is looking at how using our business model that we can actually help and assist other first nations people in other countries. So, one of the projects that we've looked at is with one of the major cruise ship lines to look at how we can actually get traditional artists and first nations artists in countries like Veniliar two Fiji and the like, where predominantly they don't have, wine growing areas and good wine. To be able to get those traditional owners to give us the art and the story to put pair it with some really good Australian wine so that when people are at some of those resorts, at some of those, you know, on the cruise ships and things like that, that they're actually getting a localized story. So I think, for Mount Yengo, we're about, you know, our business model service before self. How can we serve others before we serve ourself? And we think that that that's our sort of company ethos. So Now I'd love to see, over the next two or three years. Mount Yengo, we've established ourselves now both domestically, and and we're growing internationally, how that we can leverage off the great work that we've achieved so far. We can leverage that to assist not only first nations people here, but first nations people in other countries. And we can continue that educational platform of hopefully educating and inspiring, four people you know, to walk that path together as one under the spirit of reconciliation. Well, Gary, I don't think we're gonna get any better than that. I think that is a great dream and a great vision. I can't thank you enough for coming on today and sharing all your thoughts and your experiences with Matt Yango. It's such a success story. And as you said, it's something that younger generations can look to and and feel a part of and feel proud of and aspire to do similar things. So Thank you so much for sharing all of that, and we wish you every success in the near future. No. Thank you so so much for having me and, letting me, you know, it's it's podcast like this and people like yourself that you know, assist us in telling our story and, you know, forever thankful and grateful for the opportunity. Alright. Have a great day. Thank you. You too. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. 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