Ep. 1371 Jiying (Jamie) Feng | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I'm really happy to have my good friend and colleague, Jamie FANG with me from Paris in France. Jamie was one of our we need to enter now National Academy Italian wine Ambassador students the week before Vin Italy. And since then, he's been extremely busy since he went back to France. So, Jamie, thank you so much for giving us your time. I'm so glad to talk to you tonight. Hi. Hi, Francia. Always a pleasure. Hello, listeners. Well, Jamie, you have such an interesting story. I know our listeners are always interested to hear how people got to where they are. So you're from China originally, and you started out in biochemistry, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Exactly. It's my major in university in in China. Yeah. And what were you hoping to do with biochemistry? I think This is very interesting. I'm getting involved in the wine industry. It's completely, accident, but my background gives me, a basic guy I will see because I, merely, I started the high distilled spirits, which is fermented products as well. So, so all the chemical reactions in the wines during the van making is very helpful. So, I'm really appreciate that my background in belt logical engineering in China. So, yeah, this is this is I think it's kind of destiny that I'm getting involved in the one industry, which is the Very good choice. I I like it. Destiny brought you to wine. Well, so you were studying biochemistry in China, and then you you ended up in France. What happened? Yeah. It it was very, very long story. I just make sort of shot. Yeah. So I was born and raised in north northeast China, which means that, no back one background before I came to French study to in two thousand thirteen. So but at the very first beginning, I was very passionate about my major. So I always plan to to US to do my master degrees, but I just wanted, my professor, heard that I will go abroad to deepen my studies. So she gave me a little conversation to ask the questions that why you are going to US, and that he she just sat there, why not friends because France has a very good culture over the wine, and we have a very basic block of the Bellchanical background. It was so amazing that you you will go to France. So I was I was surprised. I asked the question. Why friends? She just killed us in the introductory course about the wines, and I immediately I got my passion. So I decided to, switch on French. So I I didn't speak so well French before going to France. So, so one year later, so I I was in France. So this kind of the very crazy story because be before France, I never tasted a single wine. So I don't know tenants, what it's kind of is about, like, the acidity of all the things about the wine. So it was quite. Amazing story for me, but I I think it is kind of the most great choice that I made. Yeah. It is. It's it's such a cool story. I love that you were, you know, in China looking to be, you know, a scientist and just one professor changed your life. You know, I'm an educator. So I love knowing that you know, the power of of a good teacher can change someone's life for the better. So that makes me really happy. I like that story. And so you moved to France and you you started drinking wine. You'd never tried it before. What did you think? Yeah. Actually, I started my journey in ramps. Yeah. It's not bad for ship from Champagne. I mean Yeah. That's a shame. Terrible place. Terrible place. So in twenty fourteen, I started my master degrees. It was very interesting at the beginning because the difficulty to understand French is is, you know, you know, French is very difficult to learn. And let's face it. French people aren't all that nice. If you don't speak French properly, they they don't wanna talk to you. Yeah. Yes. Exactly. And I mean that and go straight to the master's degree because the most of the students are French and that they have a major in wine. So I think the course is really dipping into the wines and the first cuts that I had, it was about the soil. So the structure and the texture of the soils is the geology, all the things for one month at it. And I only answered two two words. That's all I need. Yes. Yes. It was so depressing. And I was like, okay. Okay. This is the challenge. So you come all the way around to to to friends and then you learn once you need to start a friendship the first time. So I've spent almost three months at the beginning to learn French. And, and, just one day, I I I started to come understand the French, and and it was okay. So that's it. And it was really really a good story for all the foreign people who live in France. And I think French is the key to understand the culture or e especially in wine. I mean, in in the wine industry, it's really important. That you understand French. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. That, you know, I've I've I've been in France, lived in France for a little while and done a little bit of wine work there. And you really do have to understand French to to really dig down below the surface. You're so right about that. It's it's interesting. They they put up a few more barriers there than than they do in Italy. You can you can get by in Italy if you don't speak Italian. Yeah. I know. It's it's very different that if you work in one industry in France, and people are just so calm that if you can speak well French, and they they are really appreciated that the efforts that you made to to integrate the the French culture, and it did mean it's so important for the French person. So they are very open at the same time, but they they are very, I mean, very proud of their culture. Especially for their language. So, Absolutely. And I and and that's, you know, I think Italians are heading that way too, trying to ban English words from from the vocabulary. I I understand the reason behind I'm not sure how realistic it is, but I understand the philosophy behind it that supporting that tradition. So so you finished up in rest, and then you did another next step because you just aren't an eternal student. You study all the time. What did you do next? Yeah. So after one year that I I started very I I mean, very technical information of the one I'm Champaign in general. I actually found the, the the burgundy ones, are really interesting. So I just applied another at once, the master in for the reason is, this is quite a special education that you have half of the time that you learn very, technical things in wine. And then the the other half the family in Spanish for the marketing and the commercial parts. And the most important that is that, during this allocation, we had the chance for the study trips So we were in California. We were in Italy. We were in some very good, amazing places in Switzerland, and almost every region in France. So basically, we have one week, of the study in the university and another time that we just go to go to another country. It was some visits. Just one giant field trip. Amazing. Yeah. Yes. It is re it's really good that you can really combine the the the technical things with the practice when you're facing the one. I think you you can understand my point is that before the wines that you can actually understand some of the things easily. Yeah. I completely agree. When you're standing in the vineyard with your feet on the ground, it all starts to make sense in a way that it doesn't when you just have the bottle and the glass in front of you. Definitely. Yeah. Absolutely right. Yeah. Well, so you finished up there, and you moved to Paris to start working. So, What happened? Yes. Yeah. I I I did an internship before these two. I was in Baldo. I was in Baldo. So three main regions in France was not so bad. So I've had just six months, you know, for Chinese people. I mean, it's not the quiche, but I I I learned, but, no, once, when I was in China. So the the famous eighty two vintage. Exactly. So, you know, because we learned that from the film, we learned that from the articles since it was everywhere in China. So, so my my dream is to to to to live in Baldo and to work in Baldo. So I I only applied the the internship were in battle. So I passed six months there. I was in, one merchant to the assistant sales drop in the export market, what, to to China. But after six months, I I found myself. I I didn't like the job. So I at least it it wasn't my talents. I think the only passion for me at that moment is really into the tasting or the the the knowledge of the wine because I yes. I passed two years in mind, but this was not enough because I didn't have the any background in mind. So I was Honestly, I cannot tell the difference between Pilonoa and the company's terminal at that time. So I'd it was a shame. So I was I I just said to myself, so what would it come the the job that you want to do? You don't know. But the only thing that I can do is to learn. So so this is this is kind of the main reason I moved to Paris to join my girlfriend. And at the same time, I'll I started my diploma, in London. So so just Yeah. Yeah. It's always it's always these girlfriends and boyfriends dragging to somebody place. You never know what's gonna happen. But for you, Paris worked out. The girlfriend didn't work out so well, but the but Paris worked out really well. I and I know you've been working there for a while now. And I just wanted to ask you, because we've talked about this before, and it's interesting. You've said people would walk in to, you know, to the wine business, and they would see you, you know, and you look Chinese And they they didn't think you would speak French or know anything about wine. How did you deal with that? Yeah. Yeah. It it was yes. I mean, you know, in in France, basically, Italy, I think that the same thing in every wine regions that you work. You're working in one industry. So it's very logical that you work in the wine regions. I mean, so working in Paris, it's not very logical because it's it didn't produce wine. So it it wasn't my first supply, you know, it's just the backup at the moment because in Paris, I can go easily to London. So I mean, at the same time, I I finished my master degrees and I accepted my diploma. I cannot just study all the time. It was so boring. So I need to find another job to support my my daily daily daily daily workings. So, I started. Daily dose of wine, basically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. You're on a to work so well. So, yeah. I I just found a job to work in the workshops. At at that time, and I think it's very important that I I think I can practice my French, you know. And at the same time, I can understand. I can text the wine. So, yes, it was a big cup. And at the beginning, when the French people see, Asian people working in the wine, in the wine shops, they came into the advice for for one period. It was very strange. So at the beginning, I yeah. It was difficult. So to some of the French, they don't want my service. It's not it's not that they are bad. It's just that they have their habits with my my colleagues at the moment because it was quite new. So I didn't have the experience in group while empowering all all the the recommendations, the one. So at at the beginning, they they are yeah. They they didn't have to have it. But after several trials, like, insist to to some service, And they just get the confidence on, you know, I think in in Paris, for any inference in general, they don't have this barrier. Even that you are Asian people, if you just to show your professional white acknowledge and your passion in the wines, and they they accept it. And, yes, the important thing that you speak well, French. So this is really, really important. And you have you have a great personality too. So I I know what a tough person you are, and I'm sure that all of this studying, you you had to tell somebody your knowledge because you'd spent all this time gathering it. So I know you needed to talk to people. So I'm sure that helped you, gain your fringe. And I know that the next thing that happened, you passed your diploma, and now you are a master of wine student. How is that going for you? It's such a it is such a rough road and and so much more studying. I I am always amazed at how much studying you have managed to cram into the past, like, nine years. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. Yeah. Yeah. Nine years. I know you are right. Absolutely right. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I mean, well, in the wines for nine years, it's quite a big rule, but I think that, you know, you know, some some you sometimes that if like I said before the destiny is there, you start And you wanna be blessed You're good at what you do. I've seen you taste wine. You know the difference between Pino noir and Cabernet sauvignon now. Yeah. Luckily, at the moment, it went prepared. I think it's important to know the difference between Pino and Pinoan. And cabinets, I mean, but I the the the point that I want to make in is I think it is important that you mean, when you are young, you don't know yourself, and listening at some point. You start to know yet. So what where the with the true personality that you have and what the kind of things that are, you really want to do and your strengths and then your passion and your ability. I think these kind of elements means so important to me. And I really appreciate that my job because I was I started in workshops and doing the diploma. At the same time. It was a a partner job. And after I got my diploma, and my company gave me the trust and I promoted to to the virus team. I think there was really a big move for affirming people especially, with no That's huge. That's a huge move. Yeah. Yes. It's a huge move for the company. It's a huge move for me as well. It's it kind of the the trust key given to me, and it was really, really appreciate this experience. So, at that moment, when you started to working in buyers, the the the role is different because you need to select the ones, and then you need to marry the market And this change a little bit your, I mean, your, perspective to, of the wines. It's not only the tasting. It's not only the acknowledge is a combined of all the aspects of the wines. And after two years, I was yes. I have a basic of a diploma. I I kind of know what is the wine, what is the wine making, but it's not enough. It's not enough. I I know at that moment, I knew I will do the master one. I think I will do it, but I I just don't know when I will stop this journey. So I was I'm not my my reference, the the Jennifer, the master ones, the she's connecting, and she, but she speaks minor as well. And we met in Tokyo when I was in the in the education of the second. So I asked the questions. So I I really want to do the master one. So how can I prepare for this? Or or this is the the right moment to apply for this program? I know this kind of the most difficult certification. I think master of wine is like having a baby. There's no perfect moment to do it. You just have to do it. Yes. She looked at me and she said, just do it. Don't overthinking things. Just do it. You you you know, you you're never ready for for for for this because this is huge. If you really have the intention, if you really have the passion to do it, just do it. Don't sing too much. So I just okay. Okay. I I I I got this item. So I think involved in this program, I I mean, it's a very evident choice for me because I already I I have the Thursday. I would I I always curious to to to know more things about the ones. And I I think I will set the exam this year for the snake short, you know, this is the big thing, and I have fifty days to go. But every day, I I learned the book. I read the information, all the information. It was just amazing experience. I think the most of the one, if you don't like this, if you think this is something that you need to do. You you won't get it. I think the the whole thing that you enjoy the the the the journey that you you learn more much more and improve the tastings to go to what what else that every day, and I enjoyed it. This is the point. And I really enjoyed it. Yes. I feel guilty now that we you only have fifty days left, and I'm I'm wasting your time on the podcast. But I in the midst of all of this, I have I have a big question for you because this big journey through France, big journey through knowledge, big journey through master of wine, and I know you're gonna make it. I know that you will. But why on earth did you decide to do the need to the international academy? Like, you had nothing better to do with your time. What were you thinking? Why did you decide to do via? Oh, this is very good for us. And, aside from the fact that I told you you should. But I I waited for this question. You know, I waited for this question because This is so important for me during my one starting journey. I mean, because as you know, that I started my my one journey in France, which is not bad. You know, a French one is very good. But but, you know, Italian wise for me all about I think they started with the study trip when I was in Diro that that there was in during two thousand and fifty. We start in Virolo. It's not that. They sat I think that my first inside of the barolo. They said, this is the pinot noir in in burgundy, you know, all all the things that, like, in the northern part of the Italy, we made the the single variety. We have kind of the the the same commitment to to make high quality ones. So this is my first impression, but after tasting, I I send myself that this is not pinot noir. No? No. It's not. This is not. Is not Pinanoa. It's it's only one. It's a completely different. And this and I I really enjoy the wines at that moment, and I, and I was impressed But the I think it's not different. The the French people are. So Reserve. Yeah. Little reserve. A little bit different strain. You know what I mean? So just like reserve the yes. This is the the the right word. So just like the the wines. It's a little bit restrained. You have always have this kind of elegance or it's all about the balance. But Italian is not. It it I think it's something it's my my a penny that's linking to the personality of the Italian people as well. They're so charming. They're so straightforward. Some kind of the vertical and it's and this kind of the energy I caught is is impressive at that moment. So I like that. That's that's a good analogy. I think you're right about that. Yeah. So I kept this memory, and I worked as a buyer. So but I I mean, in the portfolio of my company at the moment, eighty five. No. Ninety five percent were French wines. It's no it's no foreign wines. And It's Paris. What can you do? Yes. But, you know, at the same time as the capital of France. I mean, you have lots of tourists every year, I think, all the time. So, and you only have French money. It's not very international. I mean. So, but the Italian ones is the first, the category, for French people. If they choose foreign wine, they will go straight to the Italian ones. So That's very interesting. Yeah. It was very interesting. I think it's linked to the to the fact that we had as many many Italian bistro in Paris. French people do enjoy their vacation in Italy. So after the vacation, then they really want to recall their memories in your vacations to have a glass of the Italian which makes complete in science. So I I really wanted to promote Italian wines at that time in France, but I don't know how to do it because my limited Italian wines, tasting experience is is not great. So and then I found this education via. So I said, okay. This is so called the highest, the most, the professional education for Italy. And so I I I'm gonna I'm gonna do it. So I so this is what's kind of the main reason that I got involved in this education. You just like a challenge, don't you? You just like a challenge. Exactly. Well, you did via this, you know, just a couple of weeks ago, in the midst of all of your master of wine studies. And via is it is challenging. We know that we We don't hide from that. We know it's a really in-depth course. You've gotta do sixty hours of of at home study beforehand. And then you were in Verona with us, with me and your colleagues for four days of intensive tasting. I don't know if you know, but you tasted one hundred and fifty one wines. And then you sat the exam. And I'm just wondering how you felt about the whole experience because it is. It's very full on. It's very intense. There's a lot of material. How did it feel for you? You're the consummate student. So how did you feel about it? Firstly, it it it was not, easy choice for me because I prepare to remember some one study. It's, you know, it's quite intense. And and I finally, I sat to myself, but I I wanted to do it. Even though I didn't have so much time to prepare study, but I I really want to do it because I think, the this education is more in-depth for the attorney ones, which will help me in the tastings or in my preparation from, W study. So this is this is really in-depth. And then secondly, the the program the whole program, I really appreciate because this year, we have, the the the master class with the consulting, which is We had eight this year. It was the the most we've ever had. Yes. Yes. It it was amazing. I think because they they can provide very objective in-depth insights of this operation. You can ask all the questions, and they give you a very general and a very, I mean, a diverse knowledge or the historical part of the appalachians. And they really helped me to understand their style. Why the one is the blind? Why the one is a single variety? Why they cultivated this kind of the varieties? So this part, I really appreciate. And another things I I need to mention that you the pre study program with the videos, it was very interesting because Sarah and Herron did a very good job to make this study before the master class before verona, that you can really understand every style of the Italian ones within the group right. It's an and they were so passionate to share all the things with us, and I can feel the passion. I can feel the energy. So I think all of the candidates before the program in Verna they are already. They all have their curiosity or the Thursday for the Italian ones. And finally That makes me really happy because we we really we want that at home study part of the session, you know, to be It's important and engaging, and it's hard when someone's online. You're watching a video, but Henry and Sarah, we're so lucky to have them. Henry Duvard is an Italian Wine expert, and Sarah Heller, of course, is a master of wine. We're so lucky to have both of them. And all the time and effort they put into making those videos, and then coming to Verona and being with you in person, although Henry was on a link this year, but Sarah was there, with Professor Chienza, it's nice to know that it it makes a three hundred and sixty degree sort of picture for you. That's what we're aiming for. We want you to have as much content as we can give you. Yeah. There was very very useful. I mean, because when I start to to to start a little video, I think every every sentence at the Sarah and Harry shared within the the the part of the historical raisins or the foot powering parts. All the things were all organized. Then I think I I I really learned so much. And I think that we're on the program this year was really, really good because that just like you said, it would taste one hundred fifty ones. And it it's quite challenging at one part, but I think it was very important because the one that was selected full their tipicity of the style. And when it started before, actually, when you pieced the ones and at the moment that Sarah was there to to try to describe the wines and This is the most important part that you actually to learn all the things. You make all the things together. You you understand the logical thing. For example, when you see the tasting notes for this variety, in the book or listen to from Sarah, but it didn't taste the ones before because, you know, italian ones. You can't always get them everywhere. That's right. Are that worse? Yes. Yes. Exactly. So when it tasted the ones, you You truly understand. Yes. This is it. This is the aromas that this, and it was make re really make sense. And the the second thing I want to to mention is the historical part. This professor. It was it was really interesting because I I I tell so many friends that they are they have the passion about Italian ones and accepting them that it was very important to learn Italian history to understand the Italian one. Because if you don't have this background, you you cannot truly understand why these varieties are there and why these work wrong in this region. And she owns a made a really impressive post of the all the immigrations of the all the history of the variety that was so amazing. I never I never learned this before, so I I found out it's very interesting. I'm thrilled to hear you say that. It's that is a big part of the philosophy behind, via the we want people to really get the whole story and to be able to tell the story and understand the history the soil, the culture, the tradition. It is a huge, valuable, piece of cultural, you know, things that go beyond what's in your glass and back you know, centuries and centuries as professor, Shansa tells us all the time. So I'm really delighted that you like that part of it. And and you did a really great job for the production of the Shansa. You you made everything logical. Yeah. It's really important. And I think there are a lot of points to say this that when you listened to the history of Italian ones, and I did taste Italian ones, you you gotta even, I'm, like, on the on the ambassador of Italian ones. But at the moment, then you feel yourself okay. This is a long journey. You never, never learn all the things about the tournament. That makes you cool. I have to say that's why I decided to end my wine career in Italy because the you can never learn it all there. I learned something new every day. Every year is different. Every vintage is different. Something new happens here every day. So I I love being here. I know exactly what you mean. That's it's an important part of it. And Let me congratulate you. You might not have heard this, but Jamie just said that he is now an Italian wine investor. He passed the killer exam. And I can tell you that he didn't think he would, but I knew he would. And so congratulations for that because we do have twelve hundred people who've taken the exam, and only three hundred and forty have passed. So it's a it's a big accomplishment, and we are so glad to have you as part of our VA community. We know that despite the fact that you think you're French, we are going to lure you into Italy, and and you're gonna be a great Italian wine ambassador for us wherever you go, and we wanna wish you so well for your master of wine. I'm so excited for for you about that. Thanks. Thanks. And I think that your the the the the most important thing is you you you guys were really smart because you make you make the person that to the county that they've been telling me, and you did all the program in verona, and just to show that you are not you just start your journey in twenty one. And you got this dispassion, and you give this motivation to all the candidates who pass the exam or to the candidates who didn't pass the exam, you give this this passion. You can win this passion. You can win this kind of the feeling of the Italian ones. This is really smart. So I think after this program, even I'm I'm the ambassador of the Italian ones, I have more eager to learn Italian. This is really amazing. I'm excited. I hope that you'll be joining us on on some of our Gita Skolastica, our academic trips. And, I hope you carry the the via community spirit in your heart go around spreading Italian wine joy. And I hope that you carry that Italian wine knowledge into your master of wine. And I hope you spend more time in Italy because I miss you. Yes. I I yeah. I've looked. I would love to. And I think for the full program, I just want to share some opinions for Italian wise, which I shared a lot with my French friends. And I was I learned that from this program. I learned that from, from Sarah from this course. That is so important. I just want to share all the listening stuff that Sarah said that you need to know itane wines. You need to learn to love because the the whole system of the operation of the wine is based on French wines. And Italian ones are unique because if you start to appreciate Italian with this system, you never get the the charming size of the Italian because all the Italian food is is about the acidity about the tenants. But this is the truth because the tournaments always had the structure at the first on your palates and the first and the acidity, all the things after if you change your idea to approach the Italian, you'll get another universe. And I thanks this so much because it changed absolutely my taste in Italian ones, and it was just my my memory for for this journey. I was really appreciative. Yeah. Thank you so much, Jamie. And thank you so much for giving us your time tonight. It was great to chat with you. And I know I'll see you soon. So Yeah. Chow. Have a great evening. Yes. Tell. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.