Ep. 1495 Noelle Hale | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Since twenty seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded and expects to hit six million listens by the end of July twenty twenty three. We're celebrating this success by recognizing those who have shared the journey with us. And giving them the opportunity to contribute to the ongoing success of the shows. By buying a paper copy of the Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a donation to help the ongoing running costs, members of the international Italian wine community will be given the chance to nominate future guests and even enter a prize draw to have lunch with Stevie Kim and Professor Atigio Shenza. To find out more, visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. Today, it is a pleasure for me to introduce Noel Hale, who was our Via, Italian wine Ambassador candidate and successful candidate at that. A couple of weeks ago here in Verona. Noel is in California where she works at Napa Valley Wine Academy as program director. So she's very immersed in wine education, and being an educator myself, it's always fun to talk to somebody who's in the business of teaching wine. So welcome to the show, Noel. Thank you so much for coming on today. Hi, Cynthia. Thank you for having me. No. Huge pleasure. I know that you are hot off the airplane from being in London for the WS CT diploma graduation where you got to clap a lot of your students through the course. So, congratulations, first of all. Yeah. Well, I mean, congratulations to all the all the new diploma graduates. It was really exciting. It's always fun to be in London and you know, see people so happy and excited. It is. And, you know, from our standpoint, we need to be international academy. It's so much fun for us to see so many of our students completing that course of study as well. So wine study is never a one way street. It tends to have as many branches as a tree. Yeah. I did see a few, a few familiar faces from Via, so that was fun too. Well, let me ask you, you're you, as I said, you're you're very much in the wine education business now, but you weren't always How did you get into wine and how did you become an educator? Yeah. So my husband and I went on a trip to New Zealand when we were twenty three. Yeah, twenty twenty four, maybe. And I had only ever been to, you know, Napa and Sonoma previously. And, you know, they were they were lovely. But when we went to New Zealand, I was really struck by how wonderful and friendly everyone is, and you you go to the wineries, and they're like, oh, you know, welcome. Taste everything we make and try some of our cherries. Yeah. The hospitality is huge. Yeah. It was just it was just such a lovely experience that I remember thinking, wow. You know, how do I how do I get into wine? Like, this is so cool. And, you know, we were we were actually living in Japan at the time, and so we had a few years before we knew we were gonna be moving back to the US. And so, you know, I kinda used that time to figure out, well, how do I get into wine? And so I when we moved back to the US, I took my first, ah, WSTT class, level two and and passed. And, kind of was able to leverage that to get a job working at a local tasting room because, I live near Santa Barbara now, and so so that was that was kind of my first first step. That's a good step. That's a good step. Yeah. And so then I, I started studying for WSTT level three. And I think somewhere in there, it was it was before I actually took the exam, I think. I was able to get a job as a sales rep for a distributor. And so that was kinda my next step, and then, you know, I passed WCCD level three. And then at that point, I saw in one of the Napa Valley Wine's, emails, and I hadn't actually taken any of my classes through them because at that time, they were only offering classes in Napa. And I was, you know, either in Southern California or online, studying, but I was getting their emails and I saw they were looking for someone to teach WCT classes in Santa Barbara. And so I applied. Oh, amazing. Yeah. And so, you know, when you've passed WSTT level three, that means you can teach levels one and two, which is what they needed at the time. And so they ended up hiring me to be their satellite instructor in the Santa Barbara area. Fantastic. Yeah. And so I was doing that part time, you know, also working as a sales rep and, you know, did that for for, I don't know, I guess, four years or so. And then I I I guess along the way, I completed my own WST diploma. And, you know, then at some point, I saw the Napa Valley Wine Academy. They were hiring someone to run their diploma program, and I was like, why I could do that? And so I applied. And I got the job. So that's what so that's what I do now. It's amazing how many people in the wine sector just kind of it it it just happens. It's not sort of a a plotted charted course, like, when you're sailing a boat, it just kinda happens. And that's that sounds like yours was that way. And I I like that. I appreciate the organic journey there. So, you know, there you are. You you are very ensconced in WS CT, which we know is, you know, very much its own unique world using its own specific language, its own specific, systematic approach to tasting. I'm a WST educator too, so I'm very familiar with it, but What drew you to Via to VINitally International Academy? Because it's quite different. Yeah. It was different. And, it was even different than I had thought it was going to be, you know, when I applied, which is which is wonderful. We like to trick you that way. Oh, it's great. So let's see. I had read about the, I think a year or two ago, but I I missed the application window. So I was like, oh, okay. You know, you know, never mind. Maybe I'll I'll catch it next year or another year. And then my fellow you know, instructor at Napa Valley Warian Academy just Health and actually applied. And she mentioned it, and I was like, oh, no. I don't wanna miss the window again. So or so I applied, and it and, you know, I got in, and I was I was really excited. And so I think for me, and someone I heard at least one person at Via say something similar, but, you know, in the the WSTT, even in the diploma, you know, you spend a lot of time covering French wine regions, you know, and it's it's multiple weeks, multiple classes, you know, but and then comparatively, you spend much less time covering Italy. You know, and they have I think they have they have broadened their Italian offerings, but, you know, it's it's also a very old country, you know, with, well, I guess technically not an old country, but maybe maybe an old tradition of winemaking and win the country that is now Italy. It just it just doesn't get studied in the same depth. And so I personally felt like even after finishing the diploma, that Italian wine was still something of an enigma to me. And the idea of attending Via would be to really immerse myself in Italian wine and hopefully just learn about it better, you know, and and hear about it more and learn about it as much as I could. And so That's a great way to come to Via. I have to say. I mean, I've I've complaint to Michelle Brampton, the CEO of, w, that there's not enough, information about Italy and Italian wines, and and she assures me that that will change, you know, over time, but I I suspect not in leaps and bounds. So I think all of us who are really thirsty, and I use the word on purpose, for knowledge about wine, finding something like Via that really does a deep dive into Italy that no one else really seems to do, certainly not at the same level of detail is important, satisfies our our nerdy yearning for for knowledge, but also really allows us into Italian wine in a way that you know, w set definitely doesn't let us in enough. Yeah. Well, and where I live too, which, you know, again, it's it's near Santa Barbara, which is its own wine region. And so it's very easy to get wines from Santa Barbara where I live. Sometimes it can be difficult to find other international styles of wine. And, you know, beyond some of the major styles sometimes, you kinda have to know where to go, and they have to have stuff in stock. And I was I was so excited for the opportunity to come to the beginning to taste all of the wines too. And so Oh, for sure. I mean, that's that's definitely part of it. I think, you know, we this year was one of our biggest ones ever. We you tasted one hundred and fifty one wines in case you didn't know. And, of course, we had eight master classes with eight consortiums. So that is that is an opportunity for people who, you know, don't have a huge amount of access to Italian wine, although it's funny because, of course, the US is one of the biggest markets for Italian wine in the world. So I think, you know, that protectionism in California, keeping these other wines out is is definitely working against getting Italian wine knowledge there. But we were so excited to have you and Jess both here from Napa Valley Wine Academy. We always, you know, wanna improve what we're doing educationally and, you know, all of us being WSET educators as well. For me, you know, VIA's really my baby. I'm I'm very passionate about it. So tell me what you thought of it as an academic experience, and no, I won't pay you if you criticize it. I wanna make it better. Mean, I thought it was great. And so I think it it was I mentioned earlier it was a little different than I thought it was going to be. And so What did you anticipate just for the heck of it? I I guess I came in, you know, and you you read, oh, okay. This is this you know, course and then exam you take. And if you pass, you're an Italian wine ambassador. Oh my gosh. And so you you I was kind of expecting a lot of the focus to be on the different DOCs and DOCGs. And there was some of that focus But what really struck me was the, depth of the focus on specific grape varieties and their history and how they came to be and how they ended up where they're grown today. And I thought that was really interesting, and it wasn't a way that I had ever really, like, studied Italy as a whole before. And so it I just thought it was really fascinating, and it it was a different way of of looking at Italy. And, you know, and then the other let's see. I think that was one thing that was a pleasant surprise. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel. Mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. The other thing I mean, the tasting grid is a little bit different. And one of the things I really appreciated was getting to hear how Sarah and Henry, you know, speak about Italian wine and particularly Italian white wine because I think, yeah, I think in, you know, coming from a WSTT background, there can be this tendency to sort of think, oh, you know, all Italian white wine is sort of neutral and high acid with flavors, yeah, with flavors of citrus and green apple. Yeah. Tragic and true. You know, hearing Sarah talk about texture in in white wines was I think sort of a a light bulb moment for me because it's it's, you know, it's kind of subtle in a way. And I I really had I really felt like I had to kinda sit there and think about it as we tasted the wines and try and wrap my head around it because I had never really looked at that before. And so it felt like, you know, cal trying to calibrate according to the the via grid, at least in terms of texture in in white wines, you know, it was a little bit challenging at first, but I I did feel like I wrapped my head around it eventually, and it's a really useful, you know, extra tool to have you know, to be able to evaluate Italian wine going forward. This just made my day because I do think that's one of the things that makes Vias so unique. We we do Sarah and Henry Both. Sarah Heller master of wine, and Henry Duvard Italian Wine expert are our two primary faculty members, and they're both really brilliant at bringing out this unique characteristic as you set up texture in White wines where You know, most of the white wines in the world are made from six or seven grapes, and the white wines in Italy, you know, are made from two hundred grapes. And this issue of texture and a savory quality, even a phenolic quality, is really unique to to Italian wines, and it's not easy to discuss, and it's not, you know, much spoken of outside of of here. So I'm so glad that appealed to you because we we are very passionate about getting that message out. White wines in Italy are not just pinot grigio. And there are some very high quality pinot grigios that are not sort of your average bar wine. So it's it's a that's a great point to have taken away. I'm glad that was, you know, something that you took away from the course because it is that it's difficult to grasp, and it is a very particular factor in Italian wine. So I'm happy that that worked for you. Yeah. Absolutely. It it felt like it was this, like, tool in my toolbox that I didn't realize I was missing. Oh, this is cool. Okay. So I'm happy. I'm happy. Well, I my next question for you, you know, speaking educator to educator, now that you are a proud Italian wine Ambassador, and not only do I give you congratulations, but I'm also really happy about this because we're going to see if we can't hit you up to start teaching Italian wine. So Have you got any thoughts on that? Oh, cool. Well, I mean, that was that was part of the part of the reason I wanted to come to Via. It was just, you know, because personally, you know, I didn't feel like I could authoritatively teach about Italy. You know, I mean, could I, you know, muddle my way through probably? But, you know, like, I I just I really felt like it helped me, you know, cement a lot of the the knowledge and helped kind of bring it to life in a way that I think make sure you're teaching more authentic, you know, because, I mean, students can tell when you feel good about what you're teaching and you're excited about it and or when you're winging it exactly. And if if somebody has some, like, crazy off the wall question, you know, you you can either say, well, you know, I know the answer, or now I know where I can find the answer, and I'll get back to you. So That's such a good point. That's a very good point. Well, I think one of the things that that people don't really understand, and it's probably because we haven't, been loud and proud about discussing it and getting the message out there yet, is that Vinietally International Academy does have this Italian wine Ambassador program, which people do know about, but we also have the Maestro program, which is kind of one step down, kind of an introductory one first foot on the ladder of Italian wine knowledge. And the people who teach it are are Italian wine ambassadors. You have to pass that exam to become a maestro educator, and then you can teach that, intro level course all over the world, and we are really hoping that a lot of our new ambassadors, it was a great group year class this year. Sixty four students, thirty three new students passed from twenty five countries, It was exciting for me, exciting for our whole team to see the enthusiasm and how engaged all of you guys were. So, we're hoping to see the maestro program take off in some new countries as well. So I'm wondering if there's any opportunity for Maestro to to wedge its way in the door at Napa Valley wine academy. Yeah. I mean, I don't see I don't see why not. You know, I think I I would like to We need to bring wine, Italian wine, joy to California. We have to do it. There is, you know, opportunity to learn about Italian wine in California. You know, beyond the, barolo and and chianti and pinot grigio and Praseco that you can you know, find everywhere. That was it was really one of the more fascinating parts of Via to me, which is getting to try so many amazing wines. What what were the wines that stuck in your mind? The there was like a day where we tried the side burntinos, you know, and, Yep. From Umbria. Absolutely. Yeah. And the the speaker, Jompaldo Tabarini. He's he's a character. We love him. Yeah. He was great. I thought I thought those were really interesting because I'd only ever had Sacramento, you know, once maybe twice. And I just remember that it, you know, it just has these ripping tannins you know, and you're just like, oh my gosh, it's hard to even notice anything else about the wine. And, you know, then you think, oh, man, trying to line up of them. Holy cow. Am I gonna have teeth left at the end of this? And, it was it was really interesting just to see that there is this variation in, you know, the texture of the tannins and in the wines themselves. And, you know, there is this this nuance that, you know, I didn't know I should I could expect, you know, when it was I thought that was really interesting. So I thought that was really that was really interesting. And then, funnily enough, just out around in town in verona, we kept seeing lugana, like, you know, the white wine available on wine list. Of course, because it's only a couple miles away. Just like, this is delicious. You know, I never had had a lugana in my life. You know, it was just like had a nice weight. It was very it was refreshing. You know, had some floral aromas with some citrus, and it was just like, wow, this is good. Oh, I'm so happy about this. I think people do forget. I mean, that's kind of one of the one of the hidden gems of of what we do is that, yes, it's this intense deep dive course, and you taste all these wines, and you have these wonderful teachers, but it's in freaking verona. You finish a long day in the classroom, and you can just walk, into the center of verona and stand by the ancient arena and drink lugana. What what better way to study. So that's that's a very good point. Even I tend to forget that on a on a long busy week, but I could just walk into town and drink Ligana and relax. Like, lucky you. Exactly. Exactly. So I'm so glad that you got the opportunity to do that. And test so many new wines and find some yourself that maybe we didn't have time to focus on enough while you were in the classroom. We feel bad. We invite people to come to Verona for five days, and then we sit you in a windowless room to, to study hard. But, there were there were windows. I remember there being windows. So it's okay. It's, no, that's great. We encourage our students to, you know, make friends, be a community, go out, find things, go on trips, make the best of your time here. So It sounds like you really did that. I'm I'm so glad to hear it. That's really great. Yeah. Yeah. It was it I just had a great time. I really did. So Well, I can't thank you enough for coming all the way from California to study with us. And I'm, as I said, I'm so proud of your great success, and it's always nice to meet another educator from another part of the world. And I am going to nag you and nudge you and and get you into the Maestro program. With Okay. So that we can spread some more Italian wine knowledge. That would be awesome. Thank you so much for coming on today, Noel. I really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you so much, Cynthia. Thank you for listening, and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.