Ep. 1515 Massimo Tarter | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Since twenty seventeen, the Italian One podcast has exploded and expects to hit six million listens by the end of July twenty twenty three. We're celebrating this success by recognizing those who have shared the journey with us and giving them the opportunity to contribute to the on the success of the shows. By buying a paper copy of the Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a donation to help the ongoing running costs, members of the international Italian wine community will be given the chance to nominate future guests and even enter a price draw to have lunch with Stevie Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. To find out more, visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. Today, I am delighted to welcome Massimo Tarter to the podcast. Massimo is the director and analogist of Cantina Diserra, whose two thousand and seventeen vintage of Trento Doc extra brute reserve at nine zero seven, recently won the five star wines trophy for the best sparkling wine of two thousand and twenty three. The canteen is a cooperative, which opened in nineteen o seven, and has one hundred and fifty members, with a total vineyard size of around two hundred hectares ranging from two hundred to eight hundred meters above sea level. So thank you for joining us today, Massimo, and congratulations on your trophy. Nice to be here today. Very good. Well, of course, I'm in Verona, but you are up in Trentino. Where is the cantina in Trentino? Yeah. The cantina in, is a cantina dezera, and is located in Israel because is the name of the this is the name of the winery. But is the name of the town where we are. So we are the cooperative of this town of this village and, that is closer to Rodrigo. The second biggest villager in Trentino after Oh, okay. Fantastic. I'm I'm asking this not only so our listeners know where you are, but so I can plan my trip to come and visit you. I haven't I haven't yet had a chance to taste this wine, but I'm excited to do it. So I'm gonna have to come and see you this When when did you start working at Cantina de Sarah? I start to work, we call we count our, era of working vintage, originally nine vintage ago. Okay. Nine vintages ago. Oh, yeah. We always, when we speak about our work, we always speak about the vintage, but we work in the one. Yeah. I work. I'm, I believe I born in Argentina. And I always I will have passed some experience outside, you know, Germany, in France, in Australia, and after I come back in the interest rate, and after, fifteen years in our, the winery here in Argentina, and to Wizera, one of the oldest and the latest, the cooperative of Argentina, a very a very cool, little copper in the south of Tarantino on the hill of Israel. And I moved here nine vintage ago. Exactly. Yes. So so your Trento doc just like you're wine. I'm a friend to dock a guy. Yes. Exactly. Because I live and work here. Really, my father and my well, my family live and work in the in the in the in the farm in the vineyard. I'm a son of a bit Carter farmer. Yes, family. And so I I live in the in the vineyard of Chicago. Exactly. I can think of much worse places to live. I think that that sounds ideal, a Chardonnay vineyard in Trentino. Good place to live. Good choice. Good for you. Yeah. Exactly. Not bad. Not bad. It's humor. Well, I don't continue to de Sarah makes several wines, including a brilliant Martsemino. So why is the Trento Doc style your favorite of the wines that you make there? The Trento Doc is, one of my favorite wine because, it's a wine, very interesting, but you can, in effect, there are more but one answer. And the the first is let us do it with mostly the chardonnay, you said, but this is one of the most fantastic grapes that I know. So cool. It's so good to cultivate. Like I told you, I'm a son of, with the car, and really the chardonnay is one of the best, vineyard to cultivate, but give you a result that you can see. You can taste and you can understand that with this variety, you can do a lot of things. Turn to dock. Certainly, like, young wine is a variety, but, it's fantastic. You can play your with this variety. And so this is the variety, one of the most important variety from this, DOC. So, in the start, the variety in, after the style of the twenty dollars. This is so good style because, you is a wine that you can conserve for many, many years. So it's a wine that you can drink after two, three years, like after twenty years without problem and you find you you can found different results, different taste, always linearity, always linearity, and crispy taste, probably is the one that you can you can have different moment to join with this wine. So is the one that give you a lot of, emotions? Well, I've I've heard it been said about you that you look at your work as poetry. And I can hear that in your voice. You interpret something that's alive and something that can't be controlled, but only supported and assisted. And you've said that making Trento Doc sparkling wine is like creating emotions. You know, it's that's a really interesting way to look at being a winemaker, especially a sparkling winemaker. Tell us what you mean. What what what what emotions do you get from your Trento doc? The, the, a word, but I tell you in in Italian, but you can understand very well, the equilibrium, the balance of all the taste to what you feel. So balance of creamy, balance of acidity, balance of acid, equilibrium of acidity, equilibrium of the salty, equilibrium of, smoothy taste in the nose, equilibrium of the bubble of the fine bubble that you found, you found in the in the glass. So, an equilibrium in, in, all your, the all the work that you do it in the vineyard before. Because if you do a spartan, you know, why the most one of the most important things is have the bias in equilibrium and a good balance because you don't have to feel a sensation, beta sensation, or, bitter taste in the know, in the in in the notes, but in in the month too. And this to do with this, you have to be equilibrium balance in the vineyard first. So in the vineyard during the pressing during the elaborations of the graves after during the battle, after your concept of all the work, but, turn around the trying to dock is the equally performing. And equilibrium, located in this area. So in the mountain area where you found the, you know, where the Trentino is for the seventy percent up to one thousand meter. Twenty percent up to two thousand meter. So just the ten percent of the Latino is below the one thousand meter. So it's a mountain region. So an equilibrium amount of region where all the work that you do it, have and writmo. Everything have to this concept have to follow you in all your life. Like, I tell life because the work is it's the most most of the time that we spend in, our life is, which for for me is in the work because, when you you work with the wine, you are always something to do with, if not in New England or the winery or after, in the storytelling like this, sir, you have always to do something. And the balance of the everything is important. So the equilibrium for me is the most important word for all of this? I love that idea. And and it is I I'm sure that that adds up to part of why this wine, won its award at five star this year. I for people who are listening in, not everyone has been to Trentino, if haven't been, you should go. It's beautiful. As Masimo said, mountainous, very high. And I know your chardonnay vineyards are at the top reaches of your, you know, of the of the co op. How high are the chardonnay vineyards that you're using for the Trento dockries. Mhmm. It's, about, around the five and six hundred meter above the sea level with an east exposition of, on the, So our vineyard look at the sun in the morning. And, so it's, the fresh sun in the morning. And, that is a good condition to produce, a good sharp relief of the sparkling wine. So at five to six hundred meter above the sea level. And after, on our very interesting things is that we are on the basalt soil. So we are on the volcanic, soil. In zero, we have a a dark soil at, form by the basilito. And this is very important for the taste and for the result of our trying to look. Amazing. That's it it's so interesting. You know, the the aspect of the vineyard facing east and the height of the vineyard and the combination with the basalt soil, you know, being dark, of course, will keep the vineyard warm at night because it gets pretty cold in Trentino at nighttime. It sounds like you've got the ideal location, and I know as you said, there's always something to do when you're making wine And this particular wine takes a lot of effort. I know you're using some malolactic fermentation and six months of aging with the yeast in the cellar and then a second fermentation in the bottle. And this wine has aged on its leaves for just over four years. This is a lot of work. So what's the strategy with this wine? What what aromas and flavors are you trying to achieve? We we are we we try to have a good combination. You to use, you you tell very well, what is our our work in the in the in the in the in the winery. And, we do the marostic in parts. We do a part of, of a baro ferment, a big big baro ferment just to have a a good, amount of creamy taste. We fail to lose the the freshness, the fruity, the the salty, the the taste of of desired, of this lamb. So the the the target is, have a good combination with the fruity taste, the the, the creamy taste and, the salty taste, but come up from our land. So this is the main target. Italian wine podcast, part of the mono jumbo shrimp family. I think that salty element that you brought up is something that's really particular to to Trentino's sparkling wines to Trento Doc So many of our wines in Italy have that saline aspect, and it's hard to describe it to people who don't live in Italy, who aren't used to this kind of wine, and how it plays so well with the acidity and the mineral notes, I think that that briny salty characteristic really makes your wine stand out. It's it's very special. I wanna ask you a question about its name. So Trento doc extra brute reserve a nine zero seven. What does the nine zero seven mean? Yeah. It's mean that we're born in the one thousand nine hundred zero seven. So this is the the operative of, Zera, the the winery born, before the first big war, So in the start of the nine zero seven, and, the name of our friend to doctor, remember the year where the when the wiring was, was born. This is the reason of the, of this man. How long have you been making this wine? How many vintages? We started in, twenty years ago, in two thousand and four. For the first vintage of our server. And, we do a special vertical testing, last year, during the festival of Trento dock in, last part of last year. In September, it will be the second, the festival of trying to talk this year. Well, last year was in October, and we do a special vertical testing, and we understand that we we go to taste not all the vintage, but mostly of the vintage until the two thousand and four. And we understand that, we are we we are not we are not to be scared, scared about the the vintage about the maturation. We we found that really the centerlock can develop quite quite well on during the maturation on on in in battle. Before and after the Gosme. So it's not to be square about this. Really, the developing on the cork after the Gosmee tool is very important. And, and, you can't feel that, but, our turn to dock in Jira. Really, I really need to to to be quiet, to live, for, yeah, it is some different things after some year of moderation. But really needed to be to be quiet. Not, not, Sound it just sounds like it's sleeping. It's resting for a little while before it's ready to come out. No stress. Exactly. You have not to be stressed to come out with the wine. No, no, no stress. Yeah. The wine developed very, very well after during the, aging on the east and after the decos network. So very good. Very good. I'm excited about this. I think I'll have to come to the Trento dock festival in September this year. Let me ask you. What what is the price point for this wine? If you're selling it from the cantina, what what is the price point for it? The price point is, around thirty euro about it after and not, yeah, for about thirty between thirty and forty euro. Wow. That's so undervalued. I think it's important that we talk about this a little bit because are sparkling wines in Italy. You know, outside of Italy, everybody knows about prosecco, which is a completely different thing. Not everyone knows about Trento doc in French, Corta, and these, methanoclassico style wines, And because no one is familiar with them, the prices that they are sold for are so low. And this your your wine, you know, it took you five years to make this both this wine. And to sell it for thirty euros, just breaks my heart. I think as Italian wine ambassadors, we need to get out there and and get this message out that these wines are quality wines, award winning wines, and you should be selling them for eighty euros a bottle. This is a work, to with the commercial, with the marketing, with a lot of things, really the work that we do is, a lot, the result is impressive, and, so, really, is, yeah, is, is, an important course, so is, something that, we have to construct. You have to build, year by year. But, really, there are a lot of, quality, the quality price, price quality is, very important. Well, it's I think we're gonna do something here and help you out of it and and get people excited to come to Trento and and try this wine. Can can people come and visit the winery and and taste the wines? Sure. Sure. We are we have a bigger area for the for the visit. We during the vintage, we can we can organize the visit in the vineyard too and pick some grapes without our members. And after, taste some wine in the vineyard too, and after come back in the in the winery and finish the tasting with, some local foods or not, in the period where we don't have the vintage, we can, move without the c device or really without particular device, but we have the the visited. We we do. We are concentrated more in the tour of the vineyard and, after the tasting because, we are in a so beautiful place, but really if you come here, maybe you see a lot of winery, but, you don't see So many are like this, so we concentrate, the visit, the part of the visit in the vineyard. And this is the reason because we do some negotiation inside the vineyard on the hill, in the mountain. We have some special place, sir, but you can visit, and you can, you can, and where you can enjoy. I think it's so nice to be able to taste wine where they're growing. It really to have your feet in the vineyard while you're drinking the wine, really gives you a a three hundred and sixty degree view of of where that winery is and how that wine grew and and where that wine really came from. So I think I think my summer is organized now. I'll be coming up to Trentino to see you. Now, you you you you understand better something. If you see the winner, if you see the place where the binds are cultivated, you understand better why you have some result because you see the condition where the grape, where the vineer live. And so, really, you cannot breach, more. You can understand more, the, more the wine ready. Then after you can remember better when you taste again, and you have a more cost, you are more, you are more, you are more, you understand better why the taste of the wine is this? Exactly. And and I think it does make a lasting impression to to actually see the vineyards where the grapes grow that you're drinking. So I agree with you. I think that's a great idea and a great way to get people to feel invested in your wine to feel like it's something they they they know personally. That's very, very important part of of what you do. So let me ask you before you go, what other wines are you making? What other grapes are you growing? Oh, yeah. The one of the most important for us, the Martarmino. That's the one I know. That's the one I've tried. Hi. Okay. Very good. The Martarmino is an, in digital variety. But, right in general variety, but come in this area and some century ago and found a special place for the cultivation, here in Missouri. Because like I told you, here we have a volcanic area. And so we finished its position. So in the lower part of the of the hill where we don't, cultivate the shuttle. We cultivated the red variety and special And we have a special DOC, Martamino DOC super year twenty with the name of this area because really here the taste of the this vine of this grape is different than in the other place. So you found some, this this, deep blue color, red color, and you found the smooth few smoothy taste because the marzipino is like, I tell a lot of time, but, it's like a IPH low acidity is moved on. It's very smooth and very, but very long in the day. Is that a good distractor, but is a very drinkable and enjoying wine. Wine, we've been the drink, in, like a per chief, but, with, important, with some important food too. So it's a quite a deeper wine, but very prefer very smooth taste. And I have the character of the this variety is, like, of doctor and she have the character of, this lady that. What else have you got growing up there? Yeah. After we have a a really entrantino. Probably, you know, we we have a lot of we we motivated a lot of grades. We have a we are in a area where we are very very good to to quality. We have a different level, added to different soil and some different parts. So, really, we are able to create a lot of variety. We have a or another another indigenous variety, or really a lot of white wine, like the red wine, the marzamino, the Terol, they go the decline, and these are the indigenous variety. And after some pinot noir that we use for the steel wine and for the sparkling wine, like, for the turn to dock too because we are able to use, the pinot noir tool for the turn to dock. And after, Maryland, so really, we are a region with, full of different variety, some indigenous, some international. And something for everyone. Well, congratulations again on winning the trophy for the best sparkling wine of two thousand and twenty three at five star wines in April this year. And I'm excited to come up to Trentino and try your brute reserve at nine zero seven. So thank you so much, Massimo, for joining us today. Thank you. And I have to be to tell you. Thank you from all the member of this cooperative that are, are the difficult to remember, but really do it because the the most important part of the world, but is the work in the in the vineyard every day. So thanks for from me and from all our member, our big character member. Thank you for listening, and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.