Ep. 1789 Amy Gross | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian Great Geek podcast. Join us as we explore personal stories of travel and tasting with Italy's must know grape for idols. Chart your own course with my Italian Great Geek journal, your personal tasting companion to accompany the series. Available now on Amazon. With thanks to calendula and partners for their generous support with this project. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of one. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is me Cynthia Chapman, and today I am totally delighted welcome Amy Gross to the show. Having been a guest on Italian wine podcast to talk about wine business in the past, it is a treat for me to have Amy here today to discuss her support for women in the wine sector. Amy lives in Texas where she's the founder and CEO of Vinesleuth, which she started in two thousand and eleven using sensory science and predictive analytics to make flavor based wine recommendations, enabling casual wine drinkers to sort of find the right wines for them based on scientific algorithms rather than the typical subjective scores and reviews. But Amy's also the president for women for wine sense and a member of a balanced glass and involved with women and of wine charities. So we have a lot to talk about today and listen to the end. I'm not gonna give you a spoiler, but we have a fun topic before we say goodbye. So welcome back. Amy is great to talk to you today. Thanks for the time. Oh, thank you. I'm so glad to be here. It's always a blast to chat with you and to catch up on what's going on. So thanks so much. Well, your business is such a fascinating one for me. Without going too deep into sort of the math and science, let's talk about vine sleuth for a minute because this is really what shot you to to fame in the industry. So can you just explain what you're doing, what gave you the idea, And how did you get the company up and running? You know, how many people are using your technology in their everyday wine purchases now? Sure. So I had the idea for Vine Sluth when I was actually on vacation in Napa with my husband many years ago, And what I found on vacation was that I couldn't say that I just enjoyed wines from Napa. I couldn't say that I just enjoyed wines from Oakville. I couldn't even just say that I liked all the wines from one winery because as you know, You know, we've got different oak treatment, we've got different grapes, we've got different wine making styles, all sorts of things, which make wines taste different. So you can't just rely on a region or a winery to say, I know I'm gonna love every wine. And I thought there had to be a way that we could find wines that we would like based on flavor components. And so, actually, on that vacation, I looked, and I thought I saw is there anything out there that really will tell me what different wines tastes like, and I really couldn't find anything I could find scores. I could find tasting notes, which sometimes talked about the flavor, sometimes talked about the pairing, and sometimes talked about absolutely nothing that had to do with its flavor. And sometimes are written by people who had their first glass of wine ever today. There's that. There's that too. Yeah. And so it was really hard to really look and determine what wine I would like. And I thought, you know, my husband said to me on the trip whenever we get back home and you go to specs or H EB or anywhere, will you know what to to buy any less or more? And I said, less. And I said, there's got to be a better way. And so, I just kinda started thinking about that and wanted to come up with a way that people could find wines based on what they would enjoy flavor wise. And so, yeah, we won't go into too much detail, but I did work on different ways to flavor map wines. Should we use chemical analysis? Should we use sensory evaluation? Should we use, AI? Yes, even back the early twenty tens. I was talking about AI to find flavor data, but what I found is there wasn't really a good database of flavor information out there. So consequently AI would not work in that regard. No no good data in. You don't get any good data out. And I worked with a sensory scientist as we determine the best way to do it would be to actually have a sensory panel, taste the wines, flavor map the wines, using a similar way, a uniform process, take that data, and then write the algorithms that could then make the recommendation engines based on flavor. So I started that, and I started, actually in much more deeply than I needed to go. And I started wanting to flavor map every wine so that I could build the ultimate wine app and quickly learned There's a heck of a lot of wine out there. And, some with broad distribution, some with little, so that really wasn't the best way to go. Since then we've backed up and instead of having an app that people would download, now our technology is on winery websites It's in tasting room websites. It's at special event websites that guide people on that, category of wines or that selection of wines. For example, our technologies used in a special event that, it's a short event. It's a it's a month event. They've got seventy seven wines, but they're seeing hundreds of thousands of visitors. So anyone that goes to that event downloads the event app, goes to the wine selection menu, indicates how sweet, how fruity, how spicy a wine they want, and they are told what would be the best bet for them on that particular menu. Same thing with winery website. So often people will go to a winery and they're in the tasting room, and and the tasting room person may or may not be able to really communicate well what that person likes and how it relates to the wines that they serve. So our technology allows them to pull up something on their phone that has a database of just that wineries wines, and it kinda helps get that conversation started with the guests and the tasting room staff. Then whenever people leave and they can't remember, Fresh, which of the seven pinot noir, so I like best? I can't remember the name of it. Can go on to the winery website and again use some sliders to say how sweet to dry, spicy, fruity, minerally, and then figure out which wine they wanna order. So that whenever they get home, they can order another case. Right? Isn't that the goal? We don't wanna just sell them one bottle in case room. We wanna sell them you know, repeat buyers of cases and getting what they want every time. Absolutely. And I think kind of making it more accessible, you know, I'm an educator. I know you have been as well. And, you know, sitting talking to people when you start saying, you know, the acidity, the the the mouthfeel, all of this stuff, and people look at you. Like, I I've lost her. I've lost her completely. So turning it into something that everyone has a taste. You know, everyone tastes things. So I think it makes it that much more inclusive and accessible and less intimidating. I I love the idea behind this. I've I've loved it since I met you way back, and, I'm glad to hear that it's being put into actual tasting rooms as well. And I hope that the technology continues to spread in usable ways so people can get their hands on it, you know, no matter what they're doing, and drink wine that they love. There's nothing worse than buying a bottle of wine, opening it up and finding that you don't love it. That's exactly it. And and it's it's also helping people by giving them the words to use. We're not telling them that they've gotta pull from their brain how to describe a way. We're giving them some parameters, some common words that they can do weeks explain what they mean. You know, what is fruity. Right? What is spicy? Because, yeah, there's nothing worse than whether it's the time, the money, the calories, whatever it is. You don't wanna open a bottle and be like, oh, this is not my jam at all. So the goal is to get everybody into the wines that that they're gonna enjoy most every time. I think that the if I can just kinda diverge a bit, I think that the cocktail segment does a really great job of that because everybody knows what the different, spirits taste like, And then when you're adding a flavoring, whether it's lime juice or something like that, you've got an idea. Whereas wine, is still kinda mystical and and people don't understand. But if we can give people common words to describe it and we can quantify what is in that bottle, and help people understand. They're gonna have more courage to spend whether it's twenty, fifty, seventy, a hundred and eighty on a bottle. If they know what they're that they're gonna enjoy it, they're more likely to make that jump. And continue ordering again. Yeah. Exactly. And I think, you know, that is an admirable goal. Get wine into people's hands that they like. And and that's how we're gonna increase, you know, re as you said, return customers, and and people getting back to the actual fundamental thing about wine, it's supposed to be fun and shared and tasty and good with your food and nice with your friends and, you know, all of the other wonderful and weird, wacky things about the wine world aside. You know, that fundamental enjoyment is really, I think, an admirable goal. So I I love everything Vineeth is doing, but I know, aside from running Vineeth, you have also become really involved in supporting women in the wine sector. So just wanna talk about what motivated you to throw your skills and your experience into this arena. You know, when did you first started getting involved supporting women in the wine sector? What sparked it off? Well, I think it started because when I was building the company, I really needed to find trust in people that I could talk to. I didn't start building my technology with someone who'd been in the industry for years. So I needed to find people that I could trust to find good input on what I was doing. I needed to listen to what other people, what consumers wanted, what wineries wanted. And I found that women, that there there aren't so many of us in the industry. Now there are a whole lot more than there were when I started back in the early twenty tens, but I felt like sometimes we get pushed aside. I mean, our stories don't really get to be heard, but yet women have a lot of wonderful insight into what's going on because we're watchers and we're observers. And so I wanted to hear from more women, and I found that just reaching out to them was a lot easier because they were more honest, and they were more straightforward. Now nothing against men. I I like the guys too. But I felt like women were often overlooked, and I wanted to, learn from them and also empower them. And I think it's interesting too when you think about, you know, what what most women do, most women are responsible, whether they are single or with a partner, their partner, male, or female, whatever. Most women are responsible for doing the grocery shopping, buying the wine, doing the menu planning, you know, putting the wine together with the food, even if you're just at home having taco Tuesday, it's usually a woman who is, you know, doing all of that stuff. Again, I know lots of men who are great cooks, my brother's a chef, but in general, mostly women are doing this. And I think we, you know, to miss out on women's as you say, experienced instinct, and, you know, sort of their roles across the board of what they do all day long, we we miss that at our peril. It's a it's a great band of information. Absolutely. You know, I found that in in my home, I was typically the wine buyer because as you said, I'm the one planning the menus, I'm the one planning the events, which I love doing. Like, I'm happy to do that. But I just thought, and I just assumed that most wine was purchased by men. But as I jumped into the industry and started looking and listening, I was pretty average. It was really just the fact that women are making most of the wine purchases. Men are typically more collectors. But so much more wine is sold at the grocery store level, whether that's at the grocery store or popping in a liquor store on the way home after getting your groceries for dinner or determining what wine to serve at events in your home. So I wanted to build something that I would wanna use as a wine buyer and that other women like me would want to use as a wine buyer. And then just starting to hear the stories of women in the industry aside from looking at the wine buyers and the challenges that women were having and what should I buy? And I wanna spend the right amount, and I don't wanna spend too much. But then I started talking about talking to women winemakers and hearing the things that that they put the heart that they put into making the the wine. And the women that were in marketing and wine. And just the stories that they had, it made me want to work with them even more and build a connection of women because I feel like so often we get siloed in our own little spots and we're working on our own projects. But I felt the more that I could put help women work together, the better that we could all be, and we could actually learn from each other than feeling stuck to her own thing in our own spot. It's such a great philosophy for everything that you do. And I think you know, even now, as you say, I I started in the wine sector a little bit before you, and there certainly weren't a lot of women around, particularly not in Italy and certainly not in England either. And, there there are a lot more now. I'm very happy about that, but I still think that, We do, as you say, tend to get siloed. I I like that, or we silo ourselves, which I think is another problem altogether. But, getting women together, you know, a great group of smart experienced women all in the same room is always gonna come up with something fabulous. So tell us a little bit about women and and wine charities. I know you hold, you know, several wine related events and educational programs every year to benefit particularly Houston area women's center. So what's the principle behind women of wine charities? And how does that organization work? So that is actually a perfect segue because many years ago, the fine wine buyer at specs bear Dalton noticed that there were a lot of really incredible women in the wine industry here in Houston. And, who thought, you know, these ladies really need to get together. And he also noticed that the Houston Area Women Center, which is, which helps victims of domestic violence and domestic abuse were typically asking him for wine donations for their fundraisers as often happens for anyone in the wine industry. Right? But Bear really felt strongly that the Houston Area Women Center had great mission that they were really serving women in need. And he also noticed that he's had this these women that he knew in the industry, and he felt like maybe I should put both the Houston area women's center and these women together, but also I think these women need to network better. So it's kind of funny that a women's wine organization was actually started by a man who I am told, call together a bunch of ladies and that were that were, you know, powerhouses in the end of three and opened a bunch of really great bottles of wine and said, ladies, I think that y'all could benefit from working together, and I think that you could benefit the Houstonary Women Center. I'm gonna leave these wines here, and I'll talk to you later. And that is how women of wine charities was born in Houston. This was about seventeen years ago. And, so I wasn't there at the inception, but a couple of years later, whenever I was launching Vineeth Bear said to me, I think you need to meet these ladies. I think you need to be involved in women of wine. So what women of wine does is we have events nearly every month, that we come together and we talk about the industry, but mostly we enjoy wine together. So it's it's just a bunch of ladies that get together and enjoy wine, learn something in the process. And raise a heck of a lot of money for the Houston Area Women Center. So we work with them to find out what their needs are, and our goal is really to raise a million, in our first twenty years. We've got three more years to make that goal But we have events, we've got, you know, a bingo event that we get together and we we play bingo and we raffle off, you know, magnum's and and large format bottles. We have an event actually this week that's bubbles, boots, and bourbon that we'll be serving sparkling wine in bourbon. And it's right before the rodeo, which is a big thing in Houston, where people will go and kinda get their clothes together. We'll go shopping while we're enjoying wine. I think I need to come to Houston. It's a it's a fun place, and it's all we have all these great things. So, yeah, come on out. But, yeah, it's it's been an interesting group of women that get together, and it's it's fascinating to me because this is an organization that's truly women of all ages, you know, twenty one and up clearly. But we've got different groups. We you can't really say that all the women of wine look like one thing or like one thing. But what brings us together is our enjoyment of wine in our, in our desire to help the Houston Mary Women Center. And so we have three major fundraising events throughout the year, but then we have something every month that people come. And, you know, we're we'll probably raise, you know, sixty thousand dollars at the Bubbles Boots and bourbon event, that's coming up because people just Houston's a very generous town, but it's it's a like I said, it's been interesting because it's got both the charitable aspect and the networking aspect. So it's been really fantastic for the women of wine in Houston to kinda work together and work together for helping other people. Well, now I've gotta ask you about the the the big one for me, the one that I was really excited about, to talk to you. It's Women for Wine Sense. So you're the president now. And I know the organization started in the early nineties after the founder's children were being told in school to equate wine and drugs. This just kind of blows me away. So what's the backstory here? And what does women for wine sense stand for nowadays. What's going on? Tell me the whole thing. Alright. So women for Warren since was founded as you said back in nineteen ninety. What was going on at the time is this was when, Mothers against drunk driving really was pushing hard against alcohol in general. And, yes, driving drunk is a definitely a problem. Too much wine. Too much anything is a problem. But however, the way that this agenda was being pushed, there was a lot of neo prohibitionistic actions, which is kinda like what we're seeing now. I was gonna say it seems like Groundhog Day. Yes. Kinda like that. But so they could so, you know, the taxes were getting higher on alcohol, and people were saying that how bad it was, Well, we used to call them syntax. Didn't we? Yes. Yes. Yes. And again, as things are coming back around, like you said, Ground talked it. Not in a good way. Not in a good way. Mikaela Rodino, and Julie Jun Johnson, who where two women in the wine industry kind of bolts pulled together, because their kids were coming home from school and saying, mom, you make drugs. And there there's no. We really don't make drugs. So Mikaela, I believe was was the CEO of St. Supery at the time. Before that, she was at Shandon, and now she has a small, San Giovanni, and she's also a great grower. Her wineries, Philip Ratsey, just FYI and Julie's is Tracy Sabory's. But those two women pulled together and pulled other women from the end of marguerite Nindavy, Julie cakebread, and said, ladies, we need to pull together and do something. But first, what they did is they said, you know, we need to make sure that we're not on the wrong side of this. And so they started really digging to see if there really was any merit to all this alcohol is is addictive and evil and and drugs. And what they started to find is actually alcohol, can be a very integral part of a healthy lifestyle and a healthy diet, hence the Mediterranean diet. And so they started as they were uncovering this information and also pulling on the cultural aspect of of wine, the agricultural aspect, the economic aspect, all the things that wine brings to life and communities They started lobbying their congressman and, actually, were the first ones to get a national American wine on American wine on American's table day. And so they really started talking about wine education. And letting people know not only the health benefits, but let's learn more about the history of wine, the culture of wine, and what it what it brings to our world. And, I think that they said that they wore out the brand new copy machine at Saint Super because this back in the days of photocopying and phone calls, no emails, you know, faxing, that sort of thing. And they went and really made a big change. They stopped some of the legislation that was happening. They brought awareness. It was the first American line week. And so they thought, well, this is fantastic that we brought awareness to the truth about wine. And they never purported to be medical experts, but they brought medical experts to the stage. There was a sixty minutes story, in the nineteen nineties that actually was inspired by these women pulling together. There's Kurt Ellison who spoke about the health benefits of wine, red wine, and brought to light many studies. And so after all this action was happening, They said, you know, that was that was very important, and we're glad we did it. But I don't know that the work is over. Who knows if this will come up again? And also, what a fantastic experience it's been to pull together all these women in wine and working towards something that we believe in. And thus women for wine sense was born. And the concept was wine sense, meaning, like, it it should be common sense, but it's not. So we're gonna help people understand so that they can enjoy wine sensibly. So that would be that was why wine sent. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp. For fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now, back to the show. So we're here now thirty years later. And and as I said, you are you are the distinguished president today. What's going on nowadays? Because, you know, a lot of water or a lot of wine, in fact, has passed under the bridge since it started, but it feels like we've been running in place because we're still having this discussion, and in some ways, in a much more aggressive manner, you know, I I see a lot of demonizing of wine, almost the way that cigarettes were demonized, you know, at the time when we put the health warnings on the packets, you know, cigarettes kill. It's quite it's quite terrifying in the wine industry to watch this continue to happen and and to see big government bodies talk about legislating what will be on a wine label and things like this. So thirty years from all these studies and all of this, you know, gathering of this very interesting information, scientifically, medically, as you said, where are we today? Yeah. So since So since it's inception, women for Windons has grown, and now we have eleven chapters across the country. We have about seven hundred members in those chapters, and we also have a national organization. So you can join locally or you can join and be just part of of the national organization, which gives you access to all the meetings, all the education, all across the country, as well as virtually. What we have grown to be is an organization that is uniquely situated because we are a combination of wine lovers or aficionados, as well as women in the industry. So as we're seeing this battle mounting up again, as alcohol, as you said, has become demonized and and wine is is right there in that forefront, the women for winesense are really working because we've got, as I said, aficionados and professionals that are working together. So it's been a really fantastic way for those that are professionals to educate those that are consumers, but also consumers to let the professionals know what they're thinking. What are their concerns? How are they feeling? And it's been it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship because both can learn from each other to see how they can help each other. What we're finding within our membership is that our membership is really not being swayed by all these articles that are talking about how bad, wine might or might not be. What we're finding is that our members are really surrounding themselves in education about wine. They're curious. They wanna know how their wine is made. They do wanna know what goes into their bottle of wine. So that they can become better consumers. And I think what they're also finding is the wine because so often, it's such a beautiful product with so little intervention or very intentional intervention that it actually is a healthy, you know, it's a it's one of the it's a healthy choice in moderation. So helping our our membership to understand, let's choose the wine that you're gonna enjoy the most. Let's help you find the wine that you're gonna the most. Let's help you find wineries that you want to support, and enjoy those in a healthy appropriate way. And then, likewise, the cons the the industry is learning from the consumers, what is it that they're interested in? How can they assuage any fears that they may have? How can they help them to be better consumers? I think that with this whole mounting neoprovisionistic movement, yet again, education is the key. I mean, education is the key. And as we did, as long enough for Weinstein did back then, we want to spotlight the truth, and we wanna bring stories out. And because we have so many chapters and so many members that are curious, or members that can share their information were uniquely suited to really help with that. It's been interesting. It's been interesting just from whenever I assume the presidency a year ago to now is how much the the questions are coming up. What is low alcohol wine? What is no alcohol wine? Is that a choice that I wanna make? Because our members, like I said, they're not just gonna follow what the media is telling them. They've got questions. And and, unfortunately, we've got professionals that are helping to give them answers so that they can make the right choices. Well, I I am a huge fan of education, you know, on on every subject, on every level. I there has never been a person who you said I had too much education. So I I am a professor of Italian wine and in culture. I teach WSTT. I teach, you know, Italian wines for for the Maestro course, all sorts of things. So I always think education should be you know, part of, if not all of the solution to most questions out there. And I'm delighted to hear that you are putting so much energy into, focusing on wine education. And I love the symbiotic nature of this. You know, we all know that particularly younger consumers are, you know, they wanna know if their wines have sulfates or if they're natural or if they're bio certified. And, I think this is something that needs to get out there to producers more often. How curious and and actually really concerned, particularly younger consumers are. If we wanna keep younger people consuming wine and coming into the industry, you know, as they come into their twenties and thirties, we we have to listen to them. So I think it's really great what you're doing on both sides of the coin educating consumers, but also listening to them. I I appreciate that. And also, you you hit something on the head with sulfites. It's also educating them. What are sulfites? What what do they do? What is the impact. And so things like that, rather than just turning a blind eye or ignoring, like, let's talk to people. Let's, let's explain so that they can then become advocates for education themselves. And understand what's really going on in that bottle of wine and what is needed. Right? Some of those things are necessary, and some of those things aren't. So let's talk about it rather than people just assuming that the impacts that they're they're facing from, you know, wine. What what's really going on? You know, what is it an allergy? Is it a sulfite? Is it dehydration? What what's going on? You know, and how can you make choices to buy wines that, are gonna honor your body and honor the earth? And, and, be a win win all the way around. I knew I shouldn't have mentioned the s word. I knew it. That's a that's a whole another podcast. But that's a but that's that's exactly the think though it's education. It's helping people to understand what's really going on so that they're not swayed by untruths. Education is power, giving them the power to make informed decisions and to feel comfortable with with their understanding of a topic that can be very complex. So I I am in total agreement. And I love that at Women for Weinstein. All of our meetings have something to do with patient. We're not just getting together and enjoying wine. We're getting together and enjoying wine and learning about it. Whether that means we're learning what's difference between cool climate and warm climate, whether that means we're learning what's difference between this grape and back grape, what's a typical flavor profile of a grape, whether it means what's the history and culture of wine for a certain region. I mean, there's so many things to explore, and I love that at all of our eleven chapters and our virtual meetings, we're talking about things. And so that whenever people leave a meeting, they're not just going away and meeting new people and having a great time, but we're giving them education. We're helping them learn how to make a better choice when they're at a restaurant. We're helping women who are in business meetings make a better choice whenever they're handed the wine list at a business lunch. Right? We're helping them understand the economic impact of their decisions when it comes to wine. And that to me is super super valuable, and we're we're raising up generations of women that are making really good choices because we're educating them in an interesting, fun, engaging way. I I'm I'm impressed. And I wish that we could have something similar in Italy, and in Europe in general, I think it would be very, very useful. And and as we said earlier, you know, the power of women, when they want to know something, they will get the answers, and they share you know, women share. They always, you know, educate a woman and she will go back and educate the whole village. So, this is very true here, and I'm I'm impressed. So before I let you go, now I have to bring up my topic that you mentioned before I turned on the recording, This is just a delight. So everyone who's listening hold on to your hat, because now we're gonna talk about the Houston livestock show and rodeo. Now what does this have to do with wine you say? That is what I said. The the event is coming up February twenty seventh until the seventeenth of March, but what nobody seems to know or I certainly didn't is that in November, you hold a wine competition before the rodeo, This year, you had over three thousand entries. You are the chair and organizer of the judging panel. And the entries that are, you know, scoring well and doing well are then put into the wine garden at the livestock show in rodeo. So this is an incredible thing. You were telling me that you also hold a wine auction with the entries from from the competition, and you're raising millions of dollars for education in Houston. So we have got to talk about the rodeo. This is filling me with joy. Tell me all about this. Oh my goodness. So, yeah, so the Houston livestock showing rodeo. Last year, there were about two point five million guests to the rodeo. So, yeah, as you said, rodeo is all the good things that are rodeo. It's got the barrel racing. It's, you know, all the cowboys. It's got the lambs and the goats and the sheeps and all that great stuff. And it has the outfits and the boots and the hats. It's great. It's done. Yes. Yes. I did invest in quite a lovely hack this year. I thought it was finally time. Can't wait to wear that. But also the rodeo has concerts every night. So we bring in performers every night for the rodeo. We've got you know, Bunnby, Eric Church, Brad Paisley, the Jonas Brothers, Zach Brown. So every night of the rodeo is a concert, but on top of that, it's got this fantastic wine garden. And so the the champion wine garden serves about seventy five wines that are selected from the winners of the wine competition that you said takes place, in November. So I I have the privilege of serving as the head of the judges. We've got about a hundred thirty judges. That that judge these wines. It's an international competition. So the wines come in from all over the world. I think that we might have had like twenty something countries represented this year. We have a featured country every year this year. It was Chile. So come to the wine garden. It got several selections from Chile that were, metal winners. So we've got all these wines that are judged in November. Then that helps people literally in Houston figure out what to buy for November and December, right, for all their celebrations. Then those wines feed into the auction. So the rodeo wine auction so the rodeo has auctions for the Grand champion steer, lambs, goats, and wine. And the wine auction brings in several millions of dollars each year. For the rodeo. All of these auctions and all the rodeo events raise money for education. And over the past ninety two years, more than six hundred million has been contributed to education and tech and forms of scholarships and grants and programming, for kids going to college, all from the rodeo. So now as we talked about the competition, the auction, there's a big, ground up, un rodeo uncorked and best fights. We've served about four hundred fifty of the award winning wines, and people come and buy a ticket to that, enjoy the wines. Not all four hundred and fifty of them. And enjoy some food. But then during the rodeo, the twenty seventh through March seventeenth this year, we have a wine garden. And the wine garden, has I think it's seven bars and two live music stages. This is in addition to the, the big concerts at the rodeo. And people come to the wine garden, and they'll select a bottle of wine, and they'll sit down, and they'll enjoy it. And then they'll see some friends, and then those friends will come over, and then they'll select a bottle of wine, and then they'll share that. And so it's a really great communal time to enjoy wine, and then go take in some rodeo performances or ride some carnival rides, and then come back and and enjoy some more wine and live music. The bottles of wine that are you can buy it by the glass or buy the bottle. We've got bottles that are, you know, twenty dollars. We've got bottles that are a hundred fifty dollars. So, any anything you want we've got. And it's really This kinda ties back to your first question that the wine garden is also one of my clients. So the wine garden uses the the wine sleuth interactive menu to help their guests select their wines because the wine garden has about a thousand volunteers that are wine servers. So if you've got if you've got, you know, hosted hostesses, waiters and waitresses that are volunteers, and you've got about a thousand of them, people are asking them what wine should I order? Well, they're not gonna know everything about all seventy seven wines. So they use the Vines of interactive menu to help guests find the right wines for them. This is fantastic. It's a modern day take on what, you know, the gladiators in the coliseum must have been like you know, in the years of the, you know, of the emperors when they were having these big competitions with, you know, big burly men and all kinds of animals and people were getting spritzed with rose water and drinking wine in the coliseum. So I see this as a modern day take on a very, very old tradition of how to celebrate your culture. And I have to say Houston is is looking good to me at the moment, you know, between the bingo and the women's charities and the rodeo and the weinstein, I think Houston is gonna have to be on my list pretty soon. Houston is quite the wine scene. So, yes, you definitely should put it on your list. And the White Garden is so fun because that's it brings everybody together. You've got your songs, You've got your moms, you've got your wine executives, you've got your lawyers, you're talking about aficionados and professionals, everybody is coming together and enjoying wine together, most also in cowboy boots, many also enhanced. So that's always fun to look at too. But, yeah, it brings everybody together. I think there's a country western song in there somewhere, the Psalms, and the moms, and the boots, and and the wine. It's every and it is so much fun. It's it's a really great time. It's a great you know, just twenty days of everybody just, I don't know, revelling in the in the Texas culture, and the diversity of Houston and enjoying some really great wine at the same time. Because all these wines at the wine garden are big award winners from the competition. So you know you're getting something that's that's good, but is it gonna be right for you? Well, that's where Vinees comes into play. Right? Well, I I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. This was the most joyful and fun sort of rollicking, interview that I've had on voices in a while. And we touched on so many topics from, you know, science and algorithms and, you know, coming up with sensory you know, models to help customers and help women and help rodeos. I'm I am just absolutely thrilled. So thank you so much, Amy. It was been great to talk to you as it always is. Well, it's been wonderful chatting with you. I really, really the opportunity to get to connect with you and to share these stories. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening, and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world and the only one with a daily show tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.