Ep. 1935 Stacy Buchanan | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian wine Geeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian GreatGeek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Grazie and Miele. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Welcome to voices. This is me Cynthia Chaplin, and today I am very excited to welcome Stacy Buchanan to voices. If any of you knew how long it took us to put this interview together, you would be really on board with how happy I am about it. Stacey lives in Wallawala in Washington on the far northwest corner of the US. And after years spent in the music industry, he created blood of god seen during the COVID pandemic. It's a print magazine that brings wine and heavy metal together in a very interesting way designed to lift the veil and show that wine doesn't need to be taken so seriously all the time. And Stacy was named one of wine enthusiasts FutURE forty in twenty twenty three for this intricately illustrated magazine that offers all these kinds of stories that appeal to wine lovers and heavy metal music lovers like. So I am fascinated about this. Welcome to the show. Thank you for coming on today. You bet. I'm glad to be here. Thank you so much. No. It's my pleasure. I am so happy about this. We are way out of the box, and I'm really excited. So let's talk a little bit about how you got to this moment with blood of god seen in your hands. You know, you grew up on a wheat farm in Walawala. I grew up in Ohio, so I get that How did you get into heavy metal to start with? I think my journey, the first domino that kinda kicked things off was, my upbringing, I had a couple uncles that were both, kind of wild party animals. They were into, like, you know, hard rock and they, which I always think of, like, the movie dazed and confused if you ever seen that in a moment. That's, like, that's that's them. They were, like, kinda, like, younger uncles. So they were really cool and hip, but they were also just really unruly wild through a lot of parties, and they were way in the, hard rock. And I just remember that. It's kinda, like, around from such an early age that having this music for then was kind of pushing the bleeding edge or the boundaries become sort of normalized that that was kinda like my baseline. So then it was only now to kinda like, okay. Well, this is the norm. So where is the new boundary now? Like, how how crazy does it get or how extreme does it get, whether it's faster, heavier, louder, all those kinds of things. So I think that really set the stage. It's it was, you know, kinda looking back through where the seed was planted. That's kinda what I would say is sort of patient zero, in in terms of my, you know, opening or my exposure to, you know, loud music. And so I would say that was definitely kinda like the the first, you know, kinda, seed was planted there. That's so cool. I think everybody needs one of those and and or an uncle. Somebody who's not your parent, almost closer to your age than than your parents to kind of help you get to that moment where you figure out who you are as a as a teenager. I I had an aunt just like that. So, so you you ended up working in the music industry for a long time. In LA and in Germany. So, you know, there you were in the music industry and traveling around the world, what got you into wine and what brought you back to Washington from all these other global locations? Well, that's, yeah, that's kind of the the funny, like, head spinning moment for me. I, you know, I was freelance writing, quite a bit in my teenage years and early twenties where I was doing, you know, pieces for, like, thrasher. I was just, you know, I was in the skateboarding of punk rocks, thrasher magazine, alternative press. I went down to LA and it works in, the music industry there for a record label called Century Media. It's kinda like a I would say one of the more esteemed or reputable heavy metal labels. They had a parent office in Germany. So then I moved over there unbeknownst to me when I left Wallawalla to kinda go on this physical journey, which was around ninety nine, in my hometown, there was thirteen wineries at the time. And then when I eventually went through, the roller coaster ride of my music career and came back, which was at the beginning of two thousand seven. So roughly eight years later, the powder keg had completely blown in wall wallet and there was a hundred and thirteen windings. Okay. So it was almost like ten yeah. It was like just this, you know, kinda there was some real, preliminary inklings that there was something happening here like, in in the global sense, people were starting to, you know, hear murmurs and whispers about this place. And, right around the early and mid two thousands when the land rush was just on. Some of the wineries were getting incredible scores, incredible reviews, lots of fanfare, And so everyone came running, and that was, like, what was kind of, you know, sort of, like, took me back. Like, what is going on here? What's you know, I left and it was one thing, and now I came back. It was completely different. Yeah. It was it was really transformed. It'd been enriched culturally and in personality. I remember, you know, just kind of being a little bit, confused, but then seeing all these positives I came from, it was was really cool to sort of see. Yeah. That's amazing. I I would love to see that sort of thing really kick off in Ohio, but I've I've been waiting a while for that. So Washington I mean, we all know Washington Weinstein really did, as you say, took off, you know, I teach WSTT. We teach Washington now. All kinds of amazing wines coming out of there. I was judging in LA recently a lot of Italian varietals being grown in Washington and making some fantastic wines. So, you know, you came back and you discovered you know, this cool happening wine industry going on in Washington and didn't wanna miss out on the fun. So the big question here is, you know, what on earth gave you the idea to mash up wine and heavy metal in this, like, very wild creative unique way. You've got original artwork from comic book artists and tattoo artists and articles from really serious winemakers and songs and musicians and music producers. It's it is I mean, I when I first saw it, I was just blown away. It's a total mashup of things I would never thought to put together. So fill me in on your creative brainwave. You know, what got blood of god seen happening? How did this happen? I feel like is one of those, you know, age old, examples of a joke that sort of went too far. And then it became a real thing and and kinda materialized, because for me, jumping back to what I said, arriving, you know, eight years later, zone wall wall and finding it really transformed. And I was really, you know, trying to wrap my head around how the town had changed and what this new culture was like, because why it was so new to me. And I kinda found it a little humorous at first just to hear some of these parallels. Like, when I hear someone espouse the merits of some quote unquote rock star, a winemaker. And I was like, what made them what makes them a rock star? Like, not not to sound like a, like, a snob, but I I actually was in the music industry. I know rock star led to it all over. Like, that person's not a rock star. I don't even this is kinda, like, funny to me. I was, like, I don't I don't really think so. Wine industry, you know, close, but no cigar, you're you're kind of adorable and cute. I wouldn't say that the person is a rock star. And then all these are little That's a great crossover. That's that's amazing. The rock star winemaker. I yeah. I just could not really, like, get that rock out of my shoe. It was just sort of, like, kind of annoying enough, but it was, you know, pretty innocuous. But then I kept encountering more and more of these, like, things where people would talk about habits of critics and reviewers or fans or, you know, blind followers, trends. I'd and this kinda kept piling up where I was like, this is the same in wine. As it is in music. You know, people have issues with the critics. People have, you know, distribution, challenges. People have, you know, all these trends, fans, sick of fans, things that make people elated about it or also hate it. And almost tit for tat one for one. There was something in wine had that had a correlation and, the music industry that I had come from, especially, you know, heavy metal was my background. So it was just kinda like humorous at first, but then they just kept adding up more and more. I was like, man, you know, this is actually, like, funny when you look at the adherence, of each where heavy metal and and wine lovers, I mean, they both have these encyclopedic tendencies. They have an obsession with craft. They wanna know all the details. Like, who produced this? Oh my gosh. Who's in the thank you credits? Where was this made? All these things that they just go deeper with? And I really thought that that was the spirit that was the Venn diagram, you know, dead center where it was like, okay. So they both have this obsession with crafted details and these encyclopedic tendencies. And really, if we could just get over that wine lovers are not just old white dudes with a monocle and heavy metal guys are not just, like, knuckle dragging caveman with, like, denim and leather and bullet belts and spikes and stuff. They're really, like, geeks, you know, but of, you know, the highest compliment way. So I start a blood of gods, it's kinda like a joke to kinda poke holes at it. Like, you guys aren't really that different. Or I include myself in that. We're not really, like, that different. We're actually, like, if we could just get past that veneer or that little, like, aesthetic, we're we're really kinda like the same geeks inside. And that that to me is kinda like going back to my punk and hardcore, you know, in DIY routes, which is like, I love geeks. I like people that are like outsiders or think different or black sheep or underdogs or marginalized anyone. Like, that's that's those are my people. And so, like, in wine and in heavy metals, it's not always rosy because there are as we know, like, elitists, and there's gatekeepers, and there's, other problems that prevent people from actually enjoying this and actually having fun, which I think people forget that they need to do. It's more competitive or it feels like it's more, like, you know, not to go super high school, because I was just talking about, like, you know, other geeks, but in a good way. But some of that behavior to me, you know, going back to the high school analogy is like, that's what bullies do. You know, that's like what, you know, entitled, people that wanna gatekeep it and make it just their own thing when it's really for everyone. Well, I don't like that. I don't like the bullies. I don't like people that think they're better. I think that's a bunch of ego stuff. And so that's why we're blood of god's kind of is trying to poke holes through that that veneer where it's like, you know what? It's this is actually not what it's all about. And I would say the real turning point for me with a lot of gods, I put out this first issue, and it was meant to be, like, kind of all things to all people where it had some humor, it had some heart. It was, also, hopefully, having some interesting things and some humorous things. And what wound up happening was, I just did one issue. I thought it was gonna be a one off thing. It it got a good response. The winery I was work and and just to kinda, like, set the stage of the background too. Like, I donated, all the proceeds to, the Blue Mountain humane society, which is the the local chapter of the humane society. And, I'm not sure where all your listeners are listening in from, but that's just basically like an animal rights and welfare organization here in the US. Most people are familiar with, but if you're not from here, it might not ring a bell. And so they I think that kinda kept my North star, true, where I'm like, this is supposed to be fun. I'm not trying to make money from this. I'm just expressing myself and doing something artistic and creative. So I'm not gonna even worry about the money part of it. And then at the time, I was managing a winery, and it was, I would say a medium sized winery, but it was one of many that was owned by a larger brand, more of a corporate brand, I would say. And, one of their owner's daughters came to visit and check-in on things. And, I gave them a copy just to say, hey, I did this fun thing. You might find it kinda funny because it's, silly. Totally biased, but it's just meant to be fun and I give proceeds to the humane society. And then a few months later, I got this call from, the executive director at the the local chapter here, and they were kinda confused because my name came up. And they couldn't figure out what was what the core connection was. And to make a long story short, they received a ten thousand dollar donation, from my boss at the time. And Oh, wow. Amazing. They couldn't figure out who why? What was the connection? And so they reached out to them. And they essentially said, Stacy said you're doing a good job. So keep it up and here's ten thousand dollars. And I was like, oh, my gosh. I would never have been able to give you ten thousand dollars in years of probably doing this small print publication. But all of a sudden, it just got this, signal boost. I was like, well, let's just keep it going and see, like, what other cool, good things we could do. Because if that was just like the first one, maybe we can be an you know, more of a force for good or change, you know, in in other ways, using this as kind of the spearhead. So That really puts some gas in my tank and a skip in my step. And I was like, let's just keep going. So it expanded to be every, six months. I do a new issue in the spring and a new issue in the fall. So it's just biannual, which is kind of a good you know, frequency for me to maintain, sanity, but also quality. And, I also have subscribers that will get a, winter and summer, like, a, like, a fun pack, which could be anything from, like, sunglasses, stickers, buttons, patches, that kind of thing. So some quarterly subscriptions, how that's set up. And there's been a lot between then and now, but I just released my ninth issue. So it's been kind of the going strong since then That's amazing. I'm it it's just it's such a great story. I'm I'm wondering. So, okay, you just released your ninth issue. So who's working with you on the magazine? You know, you're the creator, and this is obviously your brainchild, and I love hearing how passionate you are about it, but also with this very lighthearted sort of approach. But are you really just kind of a one man band here or, you know, who decides what's the content? You know, is there a balance with one heavy metal or, you know, do certain you playing four hard on one topic or the other? You know, how does it work? I feel like, this will sound incredibly cheesy, but it is like wine where I try to have a balance. I feel like, every once in a while, you know, you know, when it when it's pure circumstance, I feel like balance can be overrated and you just need to swing for defenses and do something crazy that's more singular. But I do like to have, balance because I feel like that has a little bit more staying power or more multidimensionality to it. So I would say I always try to make sure that there's, like, really fun things, really educational things, insightful things, things that have heart. And, that way, it's is always kinda got, like, a good, spread for anyone, whether you're starting with issue five or issue nine, or it doesn't really matter. I want them all to have that kind of vibe to it. The that will always be the case. I feel like thematically, there are real subtle themes to each one. My ninth one, I would say, is a little bit more skewed toward the hospice Durown, which we just had here. In Wallawala. And I was in New Zealand in February, at an event there called Super Wild. That was a lot of fun. So it has a little bit more of a New Zealand and hospice to Rome focus or, like, angle, but all those same ingredients are there where the it's it's got a lot of humor, really interesting insightful writings from contributors. And I think besides that one, issue five or issue six, I I kinda unofficially called, like, the punk issue, which was kinda illustrating how some of those values, are pretty much the same between wine and and punk music, which is sort of that. Anyone can do it. There's a lot of, like, self reliance resourcefulness, do it yourself kind of mentality, you know, questioning authority, you know, kinda railing against the status quo. The different concepts where those, fungi, y'all are in wine. And vice versa. There's one that kinda had that punk angle to it, but those those that I think are more, like, gentle shading or, you know, kind of a little sheen, that glosses it, just overall. So, yeah, I I'd like to get a little bit more, thematic in the future. And, hopefully, that that materializes because I think that's kinda nice to have, like, a focus, because some of them are a little bit more broad, when they don't have that, which is fine. It's just, you know, there's oh, it's kinda like having guardrails in place where I don't wanna totally lose my script, but also I'd like to kind of venture out of my comfort zone a little bit. Yeah. I get it. I get it. So, you're controlling all the content, then you you don't have a team. It's it's just you from the sounds of it. It's just me. Yeah. I coordinate though with one. No wonder you only do two issues a year. But it's also, like, with the help of, like, a lot of the art and con and writers, you know, those those are contributors that, I'm not doing all the writing. I'm doing a good chunk, but, I think that's actually part of the fun is to sort of be the the conductor. Or I, you know, I'm, I I sort of, you know, unofficially or just the short version, as I would say, I'm, like, the publisher of it because I do some writing, and I'm also connecting with people and, you know, working with different contributors. But I think that's fun, and that's what hopefully, we'll, like, continue on in the future is get being, like, a printed place. I mean, because all the content is just in print. It's not online. It's kind of by design because I feel like things online are are so transient and in one ear and out the other. And also, I kinda like bringing together, like, this ragtag army of reviewers or critics or just, you know, luminaries or interesting characters in wine and in metal. I mean, like, for example, the last couple of issues we'll have, as you pointed out, at the beginning of this interview, like, master songs and masters of wine, alongside funny personalities or interesting characters, like, and Jay Tower, which is, the black wine guy or Paul He's a laugh. I love him. Yeah. Paul's a little early. He did thirty six bottles of wine, which is a book that came out a few years ago or maybe longer at this point. I lost track. Sean Sullivan, and sometimes it's even people that are, on, like, the hospitality side that are that have restaurants, or our chefs, or, you know, I'd like to kinda have a little bit of a wider net. So it's not just, wine people that are reviewing wine. It's, you know, wine adjacent because I think they can kind of use different terminology and verbiage that's relatable And if it's not relatable, hopefully it's at least enlightening or gets people's brains thinking in new different ways. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel. Mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. Well, let's talk about this for a second. So, you know, how do you get your ragtag army? You know, how do you get your artists and your writers on board? And know, honestly, it's an incredible way to address both music and wine. You know, do do the rest do the writers come to you? Do you go out and seek them out? How do you how do you get people to write for you? It's a little bit of both, but I would say more often it's me reaching out because You know, I have an idea. I'm trying to, like, follow through with it. What I've really enjoyed is seeing how the the people who I've connected with, get it that it's fun, and it's meant to be enjoyable. It's not competitive. It's not sterile and austere. So some of these people that have insanely high pedigrees, their reputations are are, you know, massive. It's almost like a breath of fresh air for them, and they get to let their hair down. It actually be goofy and be a little silly and be like, heavy metal and wine? What? This is awesome. Oh my god. This is crazy. This is, you know, they're totally That was me. Yeah. And I think that's, like, very. And that's, like, people kinda get it. So I'm like, if this person who you know, just for brevity's sake and, you know, not out of sounding like a total fanboy, but are operating in the highest Echelon of of the wine industry, understand what I'm doing, then, like, I feel like anyone can or or at least glob onto a part of it because just to see, like, the twinkle in their eye or, like, that, like, fun smirk that, you know, oh, this is kinda humorous. It's like, yeah, I think people kind of forget, like, we can just, have fun. It doesn't, you know, it doesn't need to be competitive or competition or territorial. I mean, some people have written for me, you know, have written for, you know, the largest magazines out there, you know, whether they're, like, you know, wine advocate or enthusiast spectator or, you know, whatever the case may be. And that's the need for me to sort of say you know, blood of gods has evolved to a point now where, wine and heavy metal, that's the name of the game for me. But I think more than that, it's illustrating how two things that might appear different on their surface are actually helping understand or see the other in a new way. And for me, that's, like, universal. It doesn't need to be heavy metal wise. It's just what I've that's, like, my those are my two things. We, right now, I can be chatty with Cynthia and say, let's talk about shoes and coffee. Let's talk about cigars and whiskey. Let's talk about coffee and whatever. It doesn't, you know, it's, like, we're all just it's about the craft, whatever the thing is that we're talking about, and, like, understanding it. And not being pejorative with, oh, this kinda makes me think of something. I feel like, when people are describing things, like, nothing's taboo. People limit their imaginations too much. So this thing is, I think, tugging on the shoots, of those, you know, those the, you know, the idea routes that, like, wanna grow a little bit more. And so right now, for me, for the foreseeable future, it will be heavy metal and wine, but, hopefully, it serves as a proxy for people just to be like, oh, I'm now thinking about how I enjoy something or how I would describe something using a different set of tools or a different, list of words and descriptors. And that makes it more universal. I feel like Well, for me, I think you've even got a third element in there. You know, you've got this really cool artwork, all different styles. You know, I've sort of had a quick glance through, you know, a couple of of the, issues that you had out. And there's all sorts of artwork going on there. So, you know, how are you pairing up artists and artwork with the writing styles of, you know, the the metal guys, the wine people? You know, it's what you're doing is involving so many sort of spinning wheels. How do you get artists on board to to sort of, you know, get into this whole big whirling pot of, you know, things coming together? I think, it's It's kinda the same thing with the wine writers where it's a little bit out of the the ush, out of the orbit of what's norm for them to be doing something in the wine realm is, for the style, you know, and it can be everything like you mentioned. I think they kinda like it's sort of like a challenge. Like, I have a I have a proposition for you. Are you able to do something in this vein? Some of the artists, they require no hand holding. I will just say heavy metal and wine go. Like, what do you think? Like, or what comes to mind? And, with some people though, I will have a bit of more of a directive, like, this person is doing, like, in my new issue. There is a a contributor who's writing about, the soil from a intersecting standpoint of heavy metal, which is to highlight some of the craziness and some of the brutality and some of the chaos. So it was about, like, There's, you know, mycelium and microbes and there's death and decay and rebirth in life as feeding along life and all these microbial things that are going on and it's just nuts that no one really thinks this is happening, like, just below the surface below their feet. So I went to the artist and I said, this is what this article is about. Here's the article. If you wanna read it, and they just went with it. And so it was, it was fun. And I I always wanna keep the styles broad because I don't wanna fall into a trap of being, like, super gimmicky or, like, really cartoonish. That's why some is more silly. Some is more brutal and extreme. Some is, you know, really captivating. You know, I had a collage artist one time do, like, a You know, I think a point of reference would be, like, the character swamp thing, but he did it with grapes. So we kinda unofficially called it grape thing, whereas, like, this composite of, like, animals and flora and fauna and leaves and vines and grapes and roots. And it just looked like this really you know, fascinating figure and you're like, wow. I could just, like, kinda stare at this and pick out all these little details. And that person, you know, their main day job is they do, cover art. So they do for, like, novels and books and, you know, those kinds of things. So it was like, neat for them because it's a little bit out of their wheelhouse. So I, I mean, not to pat myself on the back, but I I'd really appreciate it. And I think, hopefully, that's maybe a, an an additional silver lining or benefit of blood of gauze. Is it kinda like you know, iron sharpens iron and kinda adds to these guys skills a little bit. That's so true. I think it really does. And I think, you know, kind of throwing down the gauntlet and practically daring somebody to turn their creativity to to a new challenge is always you know, creative people love that. It's a red white rag to a bull. So, that's it's a good way to get people on board with what you're doing. So how's the readership? You know, you're on your ninth issue? So who's reading? Who's subscribing? You know, who are the fans and very, very importantly. How do people find you? How do they my listeners are mostly in the States, Canada, England, Australia. How do people find you? Are you posting your magazine outside of the States? How can people, you know, join and subscribe? Who how's your readership now? So, basically, I have kind of a few main streams I think people are able to get it through, and that's, subscribers, which again is quarterly. So it's the frequency that's been nice where it's, spring summer fall winter. It's something that is really nominal. I think it's easy for people to just say, oh, it's eight bucks a pop, which gets them the new issue. And it ships, you know, that includes the shipping and everything and it comes right to their door. And then when it's not the new issue, what we call, like, the blood of god's fun pack. So that's where it's, like, the sunglasses or patches and stickers and buttons and things. I also do wholesale. So, mainly, like, wine shops are buying them, you know, in stacks of twenty five to fifty copies. And that's not just in the US. It's all over the world. I do ship international. So people wanna either get subscribed or just have an order shipped directly to them, they could do that. And I would say Instagram is probably the main place just to kinda keep up to date with what I'm doing, when new things are happening, because we have issues coming out, but then there's also every summer, the annual merrymaking, which is kinda like the annual celebration that Blood of God puts on. That really just tries to bring an issue, to life. So it has all those boxes checked, like the music and the art and the wine and all those cool people that are, like, in the Jason realms, come together. And so that would be, I would say another thing to put on people's radar because last year, we had, I think, two thirds of the audience were from outside of Wallawala. So it's, like, fifteen different states, three different countries, that came to attend, and it was just really cool to see, like, the camaraderie and just to sort of see the the people that were like. You know, you are the company you keep, and it was one of those things that was really apparent when. All of a sudden, here's all these people, that were, you know, separated by vast geographical distances. And they were just, like, in lockstep, didn't miss a beat, and we're on the same. Then the same gang and the same crew, and it was, a lot of fun. So, I would say the main thing is to order direct and also, yeah, coming to the merrymaking would be another good thing. That sounds amazing. My my summer plans change every time I meet someone cool on the podcast, I tell you. I'm I wanna ask a little bit more of a serious question. You know, you've said earlier, you think, you know, wine and heavy metal have a lot of similar problems, gatekeeping, and elitism, and issues with misogyny and racism and things. So how are you addressing those kinds of issues in the magazine? You know, aside from just the topics of wine and the topics of of metal, you know, how are you looking into these sort of, you know, darker, darker spots where both metal and wine, I guess, have fallen into some bad practice in the past, and we're all trying to change that. So what are you doing with the scene to look at that? I think, a couple things come to mind where, well, the first thing is I try to have as much equity as possible between, contributors as far as, like, writers and artists that I work with. So It's almost, you know, I couldn't tell you exactly, but, just shooting from the hip. It's it's about half and half. You know, men and women that are contributing. I would even mention, you know, any trans individuals. Also, you know, I've worked with whether they were writing or or they were doing illustrations. So I kinda feel like, for me, blood of god has also been somewhat of a rumination on on the concept of power versus force where, rather than be on my soapbox and browbeating people in a dogmatic way about what they should or should not be doing, I'm just, living my my principles or my my morals, which is to say that this is free and inclusive and open to all people to enjoy. You know, no one group has any agency, more than another. And so that's why I tried to make the people that are a part of it, like contributors you know, represented. So that's that's kinda like the foundation. Well, I think it's really cool what you said about power versus force and living your principles. I think, there are so many things happening in the world right now. Trying to shake people away from their core values. And it's great to hear that Blood of God is, you know, a force for good, using using your audience and your artists and your contributors and your writers to, you know, show some balance, as you said, a wine. I'm not sure what, you know, heavy metal, you know, magazines and things are like. Obviously, it's not my Bailey Wick, although I'm excited about it now. But a lot of wine writing and wine magazines have been dominated by, you know, as you said earlier, old fat white guys, you know, many of them from Yeah. And I am very much, on board with changing that. So it's it's great to hear that you're giving equity. They contribute to everything. That's that's one of the frustrating things about it is, you know, my eyes almost roll out of my head when I see the majority of reviews these days where just, like, word salad. It's, like, the same thing. I'm, like, is AI generating this? This is so predictable and it's so boring. And they're almost just aping what came before. And and for me, I think that's kinda why it's been fun to have someone like MJ or someone like Paul Grecco write reviews and they sound hilarious or they sound like, you know, like Hemingway or something where it's just like, this is, like, really fresh. And this is, like, you know, if, you know, I always kind of feel like, you know, it's like the JFK quote where he's, you know, that's not what you you, you know, your country could do for you, ask what you could do for your country. It's like, if you really like wine, you need to help it. Like, what are you doing to help wine? And the thing that comes from, like, my punk and NDI background where it's like, if you like this music, guess what? Everyone's welcome. Everyone can do something. So, like, start a band, book a show, do a college radio show, you know, start a scene, do it, you know, start writing, whatever. Like, be a part of it or just go to shows and buy the band's merch, like, just be active. So if you're into wine, act like it and to start a wine tasting group, maybe go to your WSET. Oh, maybe you wanna work harvest or crush or do bodily. Like, just do anything, like, be a part of it. So what I see, like, yeah, these rich, entitled white guys that are just, like, on their ivory tower, it's completely a waste of time in my opinion because it's not doing anything to push the dial. Or advanced wine. If they like wine, I hope they get the reality check that, guess what? Like, those old boomers are dying off, and there's no new young wine drinkers. They're all going to White Claw or these energy drink type things. Because that's where it's, like, more fun and inclusive, and it seems like it's an enjoyable thing to do. I completely agree. Oh my god. I know. I know. And, I mean, I I am I'm not an old white guy, but I'm not particularly young either, but I started my wine career in the UK at a time when there were no other women in the room with me. So, this is something I have been trying to smash down for for years. So I have lots of old white guy wine friends. No no disrespect, but, There's good ones out there for sure. That's me. Well, it's kinda like an oversimplification for brevity's sake. But it's a good one. And it's a fair one. But Yeah. You know, I say I have a homegrown test market. I've got six kids between the ages of twenty four and thirty two. And I know what they drink, and I know how they spend their money. And it is incumbent on us if we want people to be drinking wine twenty years from now. You know, we gotta get these people involved right now, or it's gonna be too late. Tequila will be selling and nobody will be baking wine anymore. So, I'm I'm excited about what you're doing and and your sort of approach to it and your attitude to it. So what's the next step? You know, where do you see blood of god's going in five years? You know, what Stacey Buchanan doing in twenty thirty? I think, what would be cool is to see, the brand grow. I I in the next, short period of time, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if there was, a book of some kind, like, an art book or a compendium that combines all of the out print issues. I think issues one through four are the ones that are sold out currently and, unused cutting room floor material. That's great, really cool stuff, but never really had the space or real estate to put it. Do have some, you know, budgetary things where I couldn't really just do these huge issues. So doing something like a book, I mean, it would be amazing to work with someone to advance that So a compendium of all the the earlier issues. That sounds really cool. I would love to see a book like that. Kinda like an art book. Yeah. Like, it'll be unreleased material out of print material, sprinkling some new stuff. And I I think that will happen sooner than later, but my real big goal is to, get a get a wine going that does address the issue you and I just chatted about, which was something that's fun and approachable, but also not just cooked up in some marketing lab, but, you know, that some people are like, let's do an a fun edgy. You know, it kinda looks like, alcoholic Seltzer or some energy drink. It's like, oh, no. Like, I have credibility. I'm I'm a real person. I'm authentic. I'm not, like, an AI, you know, something that was, like, you know, cooked up in a lab. And, you know, I love heavy metal. I love wine. So, you know, I want to have people, talk to me about it because that's that's what I'm into. That's very cool. What's that? That would be my big plan. What wine would you make? Such a good quest question because, you know, again, this is gonna sound like a giant cliche, but having something that's balanced where it's not so expensive, that anyone can have it. I'd like to remove some of those barriers for access, but also not two buck chuck. It's probably gonna be red because, you know, we're talking, you know, blood of gods. It probably should be red. But I don't see why it couldn't be otherwise also, but that's just kinda like my, just kinda shooting from the hip. I'd love that the wine would hopefully be you know, that kind of mid ground where, it's it's kind of right in sweet spot. It's not too expensive. It's not totally inexpensive swell, but, I think it would be cool to also, you know, I'd like when people think creatively about packaging, but not even just trying to do packaging differently, but, having something come along with it, you know, like, whether it was, like, a little mini print or a copy of the newest issue at the time or something. And and I don't know what that will look like, but, you know, I feel like one of the things we didn't mention that is another unifying trait is, heavy metal and and we know wine heads, they're collectors. They Oh, it's for sure. Whether it's merch and memorabilia or bottles in the cellar, or sometimes it's, like, you know, the nice fancy wooden boxes or whatever it is. Like, I think they like those things because it sort of deepens their appreciation. So yeah, that collectability thing is is something I think that hopefully more more and more people will explore a little bit. That is a very cool idea. Like, an extra give me free something limited edition thing with the what? That would be fantastic. So, grapes that you have in mind? You know, my my stomping ground is something I'm completely biased. Walla Walla. You know, has CAB is Cabsorb is the most grown grape here, but Sarah is number two, and Sarah in Rome varietals in general have kind of been captivating me the last handful or several years. So, I would say maybe it's something in that vein, something of the wrong, variety, whether it's just, Saragornasch mivedro or a blend of of the three. You know, I I that's just kinda, like, what is scratching the itch for me right now. I mean, I'm someone mentioned to me there was, like, a there's, like, an Italian baro or two I should, like, consider. And it was something based on, like, it's qualities, that seem very blood of the god's ish. And I can't remember what those word. Maybe I'll I'll ask you or we can, like, you know Oh, I could give you some ideas. Yeah. For sure. For sure. We have no shortage of native varietals that would fall straight into blood of gods, perfectly. So, well, this was one of the most fun and the most cool and inspiring interviews I have done in a while. So I encourage everyone who's listening to check out your your website, check out the magazine, subscribe. I really wanna see issue number ten. I'm glad to hear your shipping overseas. This means I can subscribe now. So Stacy, thank you so much for what was really the highlight of my week for sure. So great to have you on the show. But let's keep in touch because this actually was really fun for me and really exciting. I think we need more people doing what you're doing. So take care, and thank you so much. Thank you for listening and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show. 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