Ep. 1955 May Matta-Aliah | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pots. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I am delighted to have Maemata Aliya with me on voices. May is a fellow Vineitally international Italian wine Ambassador, as well as a WSTT educator, and she's an ambassador for French Acorta, and Armeniac, and many, many more things. She's the founder in president of in the grape in New York City, and she's been in the wine business for twenty years as we were just discussing doing the hustle where everybody has to do many, many things in wine, to keep it keep it real, keep it lively, and and make our way in this sector. So thanks so much, May, for giving me your time today. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. Well, I know you started off your professional life as a graphic designer and then you moved into the wine sector after ten years. So what got you into wine? You know, what made you decide to take a leap and change your career? What was the what was the starting point there? Oof. So there's a there's a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is, after ten years of being a graphic designer in New York City, the deadline driven nature of that industry, sort of had me a bit burnt out. So I was ready for a shift in couriers a little bit. Now, Harvey said that. I wasn't really sure that I wanted to get into wine as a profession. What I did know is that I was fascinated by wine. I, you know, I, I enjoyed learning about wine, but more as a as a hobby. And, so when I decided to take a step back and quit my job working as a full time designer, I started doing some freelance work, but I signed up for some wine classes. And that was probably what really started me on a course of, you know, understanding a little bit about wine in a different capacity. And I took a W set class. And, I guess I never looked back. It's amazing how seductive wine is. Once you dip your toe in the water, you can't get back out again. So I was I was in a similar position myself. I completely understand. And, you know, since then, speaking of your WSTT courses, you've made, you know, quite a name for yourself as a great educator. And I know you teach at the International Wine School in New York, and we've done some work with them, with our office here. And you do a lot of presenting and teaching, as part of in the grape. So how did you go from being wine student to being wine educator? You know, what whatever people ask me for career advice, I say I'm probably the worst person to ask because I never actually set out with a plan. Most things in my life happened organically. So when I started taking the WTech classes, I signed up for level two and then continued through level three and then, and continued to get my diploma. And then, you know, about four years later, I had gotten my diploma and gotten through all the levels. And here I was with a lot of wine information and no idea what I wanted to do with it. So I, I went to the international Wine Center. And I spoke with my first wine teacher there, and she's sadly departed now, but her name was Linda Lohrey. She was the director of the school. And I said, you know, I have no idea what I wanna do. And she said, well, we're actually looking for some help in this school. Would you consider coming and helping us you know, kind of organized the classes. So it was a little bit more of an admin job at the school, helping run w set classes at the International Wine Center. And a few months in, she said, would you consider teaching? And I said, well, you know, I hadn't thought about that. So why don't I do that? And I tried teaching a level two class, which was my very first wine class. And, I really, really loved it. And, I mean, I was verified because honestly I was not at all a public speaker. I was a painfully shy, child when it came to speaking in public. So it was a big leap of faith for me to get in front of a classroom but I really loved that, moment as I like to call it when I see people who were exactly like me, who are interested in wine, and were really just trying to understand stand it in a different capacity, and then being able to help them navigate that. And, it sort of opened a door for me, you know, that that focused me more on education. And then it grew from there. I mean, I I've been teaching at the InternationalAN Center since two thousand. I still teach there. And, you know, I still love it. I still teach level two. I just teach level threes and four for certain, topics but level two is still one of my favorite classes to teach. And, but that really opened a door for me to get into really focusing on education as the primary focus of my career. I completely get it with level two. I I have to say I love teaching level two because Oh, it's great. People people people are not too stressed out. By level three, they start to get stressed out. And it is that moment where you see the light bulb come on over their head and you just think, yes, There we go. So, it's it's it's amazing when that happens. It's great. It's great. And I have every single time I teach a class, my first day, I go around the room and ask people to introduce themselves, and then I always say, okay. Who is in this classroom? Is hoping to make a career switch into wine. And inevitably, there will be at least two people in that classroom every single time. And I say, you know, I was you. I mean, I literally was that person in the classroom, hoping to get into this and having no idea how. And and, you know, but you're in the right place to start. So, yeah, it's great. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel. Mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local foods, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. No. It is. It is I I love teaching wine. I mean, I love teaching at all levels, but I do think level two is particularly special. And I really think it's so important to keep educating people, you know, staff and consumers and buyers, whether they're new to wine or not. So, you know, how important do you think wine education is today. You know, we we talk a lot about it, we hear a lot about it. How would you like to see wine education evolve in the next few years? You know, I mean, it's interesting because I feel like we're at a very funny time when it comes to wine education because I agree. You have, you know, I have people who, you know, like you and me who've got the credentials. I did w said, you know, I'm a certified wine educator through the Society of wine educators. And, you know, one glance at my website and people can see the list of certifications I have, including the minutely, you know, the Italian One Ambassador, and I hold many others. So I hold education, very, very highly I also hold myself as an educator to very high standards. And, you know, in this business, I feel like you've got, you know, I, I work independently as, as you and I were talking. So I've got my only thing that I have is my reputation. So I feel very strongly about showing up for everything that I do always bringing my a game, always being hugely prepared. You know, even w set level two, which we've talked about, I've talked this for twenty something years. I still do not walk into a classroom without spending time reviewing and updating my notes. And that's, you know, twenty four years later. So I really take, I take this very seriously. To me, it's hugely important. It makes me sad when I see a lot of people, sort of poo who, you know, poo poo, wine education. It doesn't necessarily mean that everybody needs to go through w set classes. There are a hundred different ways that you can educate yourself. However, I think that if you're going to present yourself as a quote unquote expert on a topic, having at least some facts is great, and appreciated and how you choose to get there, that's your prerogative. And I feel like today, there are so many different, you know, ways that you can do it. You can do it through w set. You can do it through the guild. You can do it through, you know, the summary track. You can do it through online classes. You can do it through reading books. I mean, choose your path, but get knowledgeable, please. No. I please. I I love that. Get knowledgeable, please. Yes. I've I despair and everyone who listens to me knows that I despair over, you know, all you need is a bikini and a glass of wine on Instagram and suddenly you're a wine. I expert. So oh, you said it. You said it. I did not, but yes. No. No. I I am I am not afraid of saying that because, yes, get educated, please. I I wanna have that on a t shirt. Yeah. That that could be my hashtag. It's get plea educated, please, because I I just it's disheartening. And honestly, I mean, the other thing, and and and again, I take a lot of pride in this because every single time I do a seminar, I have people coming up to me and saying, my god, you know, like, I really enjoyed how you present. I really enjoyed how you, you know, helped me understand this. I really appreciate what you did. And I said, and I've been I mean, I go to more seminars maybe than I present. I try to go to a lot of different presentations, and a lot of it is, a, I want to continue to learn. And, b, I wanna see what other people are doing. And sadly, there are a lot of people who are standing up in front of classrooms or, you know, an audience for the people. And wasting their time. And I do not appreciate that. I I take offense to what I call the Me, myself, and I show when people get up in front of a classroom, and all they do is talk about themselves. And they're fabulous. Oh, when I was on this trip, and, no, no, no, no, no, no. We all know those people. Oh, we know those people. Yes. And, and it's like, have you even bothered to do any work at all before you showed up here? And there's a lot there's a lot of mediocre wine education out there. That's true. For better or for worse, that is true. So, this is an important conversation to have because often we talk about the language of wine education and how it keeps people out sometimes and and is a bit pretentious sometimes or too formal, but I think this is a very interesting point about wine educating, you know, what makes an educator the real deal. And I think you know, having your own certifications and care carrying on with your own knowledge development is super important to that. So I I really like the fact that we went down this road. It wasn't where we were going, but I think that was really important to say. So And I wanna I wanna ask you also about, Laidam Desgolfier in New York. You know, I know you're a member, and it's such an interesting group. It's a collective of of forward thinking and successful female leaders in the world of food and beverage. And, you know, sort of the mission is supporting women and championing critical industry issues. So I was just wondering, what are you doing in Laidonda Esafier? And, how long have you been with them? And what are you up to there? Oh my gosh. I love Leidan Deskofier. I have to say. So, again, I will say that the the the same person who really was my mentor. So I I misheard dearly, Linda, who was the person who, you know, introduced me to the idea of teaching at the Anasha One Center, is also the person who sponsored me for joining Leanda Scopier. And, you know, it's an organization that is really kind of changing, with the times, which I think is very interesting. The the, membership has been changing quite a bit as well, but the focus of it is on women in the culinary wine, hospitality, beverage industries. But today it's really sort of grown to also include, you know, with distillers, farmers, a lot of focus on people working sustainably, So it's a it's an amazing group of a highly accomplished women in in a variety of different capacities in this or in this industry. So it's not, you know, when I when I joined it, and I think your question was, you know, when did I join elves? You don't remember exactly but I think I've been a member for, I'm gonna say, over ten years, maybe, yeah, nine or ten years. And when I joined even, it was quite focused on a lot of culinary people, a lot of cookbook writers, actually. And now it's really changed. We have a lot more wine people in the industry, winemakers, you know, a lot of, sommeliers, more focused on cocktail, people working in the cocktail, space. So the the membership has changed. And my role within the organization, when I first joined, I was on the scholarship committee. And, you know, the big focus of what Laidam does is to act to offer scholarships two women in the industry. And we have affiliations with different schools. So every year, we award, you know, a lot of money, actually, to two women in one of the various, enlisted in one of the schools that we have affiliations with. And that runs the gamut from, I probably won't remember them all, but Moncler, CIA, NYU, Cornell, and it's really kind of a wide gamut of of schools. And, so we we invite students to apply. And, and then there's a committee that, you know, goes through the scholarship, applications, and then scholarships are awarded to. It depends on the years anywhere from maybe eighteen to twenty four young women are awarded scholarship to the schools that they're, enlisted in. And, and it's an amazing opportunity. And, and it's really the focus of everything that we do in the organization whether when we're doing events, we're doing programming. The money that we're making is always going into our scholarship fund. And then we have some yeah. And then we have some organizations that partner with us. Some of the scholarships are named scholarships. So somebody who may want to give a a scholarship in their name. Some of them are corporate scholarships, and a lot of them is money that's actually just, that we raised during our programming. And then that money goes towards helping women in their, in their education. And, you know, for example, this year, one of the students who was at the International One Center was one of my teaching assistants in the class applied, and she earned a scholarship towards her level three, which, you know, will be covered by by that scholarship. So it's an amazing opportunity, and, I'm very, very proud of that. I I was I shared the scholarship committee for years. I was on that committee for a long time, but I shared that it was that committee for, I think, three or four years. And now I'm on another committee, which is the new member committee, which is equally exciting because this is when, this, again, there's a season to apply to join the organization. And myself along with the committee and the two chairs of that committee review all the applications of, you know, women who would like to join. And, we go through the list and then we interview them. And, man, are there some impressive women out there? I mean, it's mind blowing, some of the, the, the, the women that are joining this organization, unbelievable skill sets people doing some really, really interesting things. So it's always, it feels like a true privilege actually because, you know, it's a way to meet a lot of women who are doing a lot of interesting things. And then we got to know them through the organization, you know, and then they participate. So myself, for example, through my various clients, I've hosted numerous events, where, you know, I've done things with I mean, we haven't really talked about the clients that I've worked with. I bet, you know, I've I've worked with Armen Yac. I've done, several events there. I've worked with Venture Yacorta. I've sponsored several events with them. Now I'm working with Elevenese winery. I'll be hosting an event with them. So You know, a lot of us, try to bring our network into creating interesting programming. And there's ongoing. I mean, this weekend, there was actually an event, which I couldn't go to, but it was on, you know, honey tasting. And, and it was apparently fascinating. I am sad that I couldn't go, but it was, you know, going and visiting a a honey sommelier, and and she guided the, guests, the whole tasting of different honey. And then another posted everybody at her house for a follow-up, you know, party. And so, I mean, it's it's part networking, part socialization. I've also made some amazing friends through the organization. But, you know, we all are in it for the same goal, which is to try to pay it forward a little bit, really. That sounds fantastic. That's it it's fascinating what women can do when they get into the same space together. But you you've opened the door for me to ask you about, about you, because I know, as you said, you were born in Lebanon, and you lived there till you were about nineteen or twenty. And, you know, we those of us in the know, we all know that Lebanon has thousands and thousands of years of wine making tradition. And wines from there have really grown in sort of recognition and reputation in the past few years. So you said you're you're working with, Lebanese winery now. I wondered, you know, were you aware of Lebanese wines when you were growing up there? And you know, what what do you think of them nowadays? Because they really have come on. You know, is there is there a big market for them in the US? Tell me a little bit about what's going on. Oh gosh. Yes. So, I mean, was I aware that Lebanon made wine? Yes. So I'll tell you a little story because, that's actually how my first memories of wine started. I was born in Lebanon. I lived in Lebanon until I was nineteen, then I came to the states. And, my, my parents are both from the villages. And in Lebanon, it's a small country. And, a lot of us tend to have, you know, a place in the city, and then you have a place up in the mountains. And so in the summer, we would always go to my dad's village, which was called, with summer there. And then towards the end of the summer, we would go the Becca valley, which is really the agricultural basket of Lebanon. It's it's a very high altitude, which I think most people don't recognize, but it's over three thousand feet in elevation. So we say valley. Most people think low. But it's actually a valley sitting between two very high mountain chains. But it's a very, you know, it's an amazing place for agriculture and where it's where a lot of things grow in Lebanon, including grapes, but it also you get, you know, you get melons, you get onions, you get garlic, you get that's soubles. So every year at the end of the summer, my parents would go up to the Bica. We'd do a day trip, and we'd go to a winery, and they would buy their wine. It was like, you know, you'd bought your your onion, big bag of onion for the year. You bought your cases of wine for the year. So and I remember as a child, I mean, we're talking I was maybe, you know, eight, nine walking into these wineries and just feeling like I was in a magical place. I mean, I truly remember the smell of being in a winery, Actually, one of my fondest memories is visiting, Shatoksada, which I today work with. So it's a beautiful, sort of, full circle story for me. And going, and they would buy their, you know, they buy two cases of red cases of white, the case of Rosay, and that was their wine for the year. And, you know, you can bring it back. So I knew of the industry, but, you know, I was a kid, and but, you know, being here, and being in New York and obviously working in wine for the last twenty years now. I've seen the some of the growth of Lebanese wine, but I will say that the majority of it has been very local. So if you had a Lebanese restaurant, they had Lebanese wine. It didn't really branch out. There's only one winery that was ever able to sort of get out of the silo, which is Satu Muza. Any person who knows anything about Lebanese wine. You say Lebanese wine, they go, oh, Satu Muza. Which I am a huge fan. I have, you know, crazy respect for them. However, today we have about sixty different wineries in Lebanon, and they're making a lot of them are making really wonderful wines. And so it's a very different story today. There are many more wineries aside from Chatur Muzad that are working, and you've got everything from, like, the micro micro boutique winery to Xsada, which is and has been. I mean, Chaturksada is really, and I iconic winery for Lebanon because it's the oldest winery and the largest winery. So it started in eighteen fifty seven, and today they they represent, you know, about three million out of the ten million, model production of the country. But you've got a lot of really fun things going on in the wine industry in Lebanon today. And, so, you know, when I sort of became a little bit more established, and of course, love it on small. Right? So when I go back, I'm like, oh, there are not that many people who are Lebanese who live in New York, who work in wine. And inevitably, you know, the first time I worked with one of the wineries, it was from my dad's village. My dad met this gentleman who was making wine in his village, called Camdun, and the winner is called Chateau Belvieu. And, oh, you know, your daughter works in wine. I wanna meet her. I wanna meet her. And so of course, he meets me. And then I worked with him for a few years, helped connect him with a distributor, in New York, help do some events for them. And then, you know, they were kind of on their way, so I stepped back. And then I worked with another winery, kind of doing the same thing. So I decided I always wanted to help at least one Lebanese winery because this is something that I could do for my heritage and for my people to help, you know, kind of guide them and bring the wines into this market and expand out of this Lebanese restaurant silo. That's such an excellent in story. That's amazing that you've been able to do that. I mean, I I have had the, you know, not very frequent, but the opportunity to taste a few Lebanese wines, and they are amazing. That altitude, as you said, is, is really significant. The nice, good acidic spines, the the the quality has just gone up and up. So I'm so glad you could you could pay that back to to your country where you were born. I know I know you're also passionate about sweet and fortified wines. So how how did you get hooked on this particular part of the wine world? And it is it is not something that people get hooked on all that often. Yeah. You know, I think well, when I was starting to teach, and again, this is kind of going back a little bit when I was when I was teaching at the International Wine Center, At one point, I was given the opportunity to teach a class about level four diploma class on port. And, I was like, well, I don't really, you know, to teach diploma, I feel like you really need to have a pretty deep understanding. And so at the time, I reached out to somebody who was working with the ones, Portugal, and the port wine. And I went on a trip to Porto, and I spent about five days there visiting, a lot of different producers and I was just absolutely blown away. I mean, not only is it an absolutely gorgeous place, but the wines were phenomenal. And I just couldn't understand why, you know, there is this stigma really against sweet wines. I mean, it's just I I would say, you know, we eat sweet everything. I mean, you you can buy, like, tomato sauce in a store in the States and you read the labels and they've got sugar in them. Yogger, it's got more sugar in it than ice cream. I mean, Americans love to eat sweet, but then there's kind of this knee jerk, response when, you know, they're talking about wine. It's like, oh, I like dry wine. You know, it's like it's become a mark of sort of, I don't know, quote unquote sophistication. So I've always liked to advocate for the underdog. So I think that's part of the appeal to me. The other part of it is just trying to get people. Again, it's that aha moment. Like, you think you know, but you don't really, and taste this wine for me. You know, like, to taste it and tell me, you know, whether take away your preconceived notions. And people do find them delicious. And then they're wines of such history. That I love the historical aspect of them. I think, you know, in in my education, and I think that's something that, you know, partly from my graphic design background, partly from, I guess the way that my brain is. I like a story. I like a narrative. I like to understand the why. So I always love to understand, you know, how did we get to this point where wines became fortified? Why are they made a certain way? Why do they taste a certain way? What's the history behind all of this? And so I really view it as storytelling, and I find that with a wine like port. With a wine like Sherry. I mean, oh my god. You know, can you think of a wine region that has a more amazing history than Sherry? Cause I can't. No. Exactly. It's so true. There's so so I love that. I love the history, but I also love talking about technique, because honestly, for me, I get a little bit bored if all I'm gonna do is point at a map and say, and then this region is, which, I mean, I get it. Right? We have to do that. But But, you know, Sherry, you could talk about so many things. Right? You can talk about its history. You can talk about the export markets. You can talk about floor. You can talk about the soleras. You can bring it all together. So it's an interesting story to tell. So I like to tell that story. With port, I like to tell that story. Madeira, amazing place. It's insane. Like, when I went there, and I looked around, I'm like, who are these people who are like, hey, I'm gonna put a vineyard up here. Like, it's a sheer vertical drop. You need a ladder to get into your vineyard, and somebody's like, oh, let's put some pines. Yeah. So, I mean, I find that fascinating. I'm a geek. I'm a geek too. I can I'm last thing because, you're you're singing my song. I love that you're a storyteller. It, you know, it explains so much about what you do because teaching is essentially storytelling, a little more technical and elevated, but that's where it stems from. So Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you gotta give it a hook. You know, and I've had I mean, I had it an interesting opportunity this last couple of years to because, you know, spirits are are, using a lot and have used a lot, but have been using a lot more sherry casks to either, you know, finish or mature their products in. And so I had an opportunity to work with Petrone when they came out with a special tequila that was matured in Sherry Cas. And then I had an opportunity to do a program with Fondador, on there, you know, it's a brandy from Harris, but their story is also the Harvey's Sherry story. And, I mean, it's such a wonderful rich story to tell. So, you know, it's it's really, I mean, when I when I'm presented with an opportunity like this, going back and really kind of bringing testing up my books and going back into history, that's fun for me. You know, I love sort of thinking, okay, how am I gonna, how am I gonna tell this story? How am I gonna put it all together? And of course, educate. I mean, that's really the bottom line. But to give people a hook, like, to give them some way of understanding it, that's not just standing there throwing a bunch of, you know, just information at them, of which you may not retain a lot. And a lot of this just comes from my own issue because I don't my memory is horrible. And so I need a story around something. You know, I need to I'm a visual person. I I need so I show a lot of pictures. I try to approach things from a much, you know, sort of a three sixty way. So a lot of it is more that how would I learn? And how would I want to be engaged? I think that that plays such a big part, and it I mean, it's so clear how passionate you are about it. So It's it is it's very interesting how all of these pieces of the puzzle fit together. So, before I let you go, I just wanna ask you, and I know that you love Italian wines. You know, you've done the the Italian wine Ambassador course as I have done. And It's an amazing course, by the way. Shout out to to that organization because they it's it's it's amazing. Thank you. I will shout that out too. I I utterly agree Italian wine Ambassador course is fantastic. And I know you've worked with a lot of wines in Italy, especially white wines, and, of course, French Accord is sparkling wine. So if you had to name one wine that you'd really like to try from Italy that you haven't tried yet, what would it be? Oh, one one that I would really like to try. Oh, my gosh. Don't ask me. You know, this is what happened. My brain would completely blank. Oh. Or one that you've had that you would like to revisit. I can't even like I can't even just say one because there's so many. I I did go I'm not even I'm not gonna give you a name because my memory will not produce that at the moment. But one of the most amazing trips that I did was, twenty years ago, my husband and I went to Italy and kinda did a trip in the north. And we visited, we spent a few days in Piedmont, and then we went to, we went to Venice, we went to the Veneto, went to Amelia Romania, bologna, we went back to Bergamo, and sort of liked it, and it was amazing. And I tasted some beautiful, old barolo with, some amazing meals there. So if I could, you know, just wiggle my nose and get transported back in time, I would love to be back and and maybe tasting some really old perolo. Oh That smells fantastic. Next time you come to Italy, you call me up and I will I'll hook you up. Amazing. I'm not sure when that's gonna be hopefully soon, but yeah, I'd love to take you up on that offer. But, you know, I have to say, I mean, Italy, my god, it's like it's a treasure trove of wine, so hard to I mean, it's just I feel like you're dying when it's just getting better and better and more and more amazing stuff coming out of there. So I'm they definitely are. They definitely are. I think you need to come in November to our wine to wine business conference and check out check out everything that's happening. You know, it's been on my radar for a few years, and I have yet yet to make that conference. So maybe this year, I will I will make it happen. Well, it's, again, it has grown as well. And so it is one of those fun things. Not as much tasting, much more focused on information and, lots of great people to network with. I know you would fit right in with the crowd May, so I hope you'll consider that and come visit us in Verona in November. Well, I am adding what are what are the dates actually? Do you do you already have dates? I do have the dates. Give me half of a second, and I will tell you when they are. They were just released recently. So I happen to have them pretty much to hand, scroll, scroll, scroll, November fourth and fifth. Four and five. Okay. Well, I am putting them in my calendar as soon as we hang up. I just wrote it down. So, I'm trying to get that day blocked. Well, I hope to make it. Well, let me know and stay in touch. Thank you so much for for coming on today. I really appreciate it. My pleasure. Thanks for reaching out, and I'm glad we made this happen. Thank you for listening and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world and the only one with a daily show. Tune in every day and discover all our different shows. 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