Ep. 2060 Anna Brittain | Voices with Cynthia Chaplin

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And while Mati Kazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin. And today, I am very excited to have Anne Britain on voices with me. Anne is a leader in environmental management and policy, and she's worked as a sustainability consultant for the likes of Ontario Craft wineries. Sustainable wine growing British Columbia and the California sustainable wine growing alliance. She is currently the executive director of Napa Green, which is a nonprofit vineyard and winery sustainable certification program. And in twenty twenty two, she launched Rise Climate Wineposium, and she was named a future forty tastemaker by wine enthusiast in twenty twenty three. Wine Business Monthly also named her as a wine in three liter. And this year, she was included in the in five seventy five list of people that will shape the way we drink. So lots and lots of things to talk about, Anna. I can't believe you have time to even come on the podcast today, so thank you for that. This is fun to do. Thank you for having me. No. It's a pleasure. Before we get into the nitty gritty of what you actually do, which is very cool and involved. I know you studied environmental science and policy and management. So did you move from sort of research and policy into the world of wine? What was the what was the journey there? Well, I actually grew up in the Napa Valley mostly. We moved a lot, but mostly the Napa Valley, and I actually felt like it was a bubble. I wasn't intending to come back. I felt like people didn't get out of the valley. I wasn't gonna work in wine, and I left in my whole career has been in, yeah, some form of environmental management and policy. But I got drawn back in faithfully. It was one summer between interestingly longer story, working in Vietnam, and I was on my way to start my master's program at Yale. And I just need a summer job, something to do. And I got connected with a consultant, John Garn, back in two thousand six, who specifically did sustainable wine growing consulting. So that's when I started getting familiar with the California a sustainable wine growing alliance and working with leaders like Benzinger, and really kinda drop got drawn into this very niche, world of specifically working on sustainability and climate action in the wine industry. And I kinda took a circuitous route, but ultimately came back to that, and and I've worked in that space for something like thirteen years now. Wow. Well, you you say it's a a niche part of the wine industry, but I think that is changing. And and needs to change. And you are definitely one of the people who is gonna shake that up. So I know you started working with Napa Green certified land and winery programs in around two thousand and fifteen, and you became their executive director in twenty nineteen. So during all that time, you developed what's called the six pillars of sustainability. So I wanna talk about this because it's fascinating. Most people tend to hear the word sustainability and think vineyard pesticide pasta. So your your six pillars really go a lot farther than that in ways that I think are important. So, tell us about the six pillars, and why did you decide that you wanted to define sustainability this way? Yeah. It's interesting. I just I, you know, there's so many conferences now. Thankfully, almost at every conference and symposium, sustainable wine growing as you're saying, is now a topic along with regenerative, which I know we'll talk more about. And almost everywhere I go and hear this spoken about, not just in the wine industry but elsewhere, you just hear people lamenting sustainability. Like, oh, it's it's unclear. It doesn't have a clear definition. It doesn't mean anything. Is it greenwashing? And I just kind of heard this too many times back in twenty twenty one sitting right where I am right now with my dog. And I slammed my hand on the table, and I said, come on. There's six pillars of leadership that anyone needs to be doing. Five of them apply to any business. Only one of them is ag specific. That anyone needs to be doing to really call themselves leaders. And and I'm sure I'll say more than once in this in this interview, we have to be thinking whole systems. We can't just be thinking in silos. We have to be thinking in an integrated way. And so that's what these six pillars are about or kind of a filter to really say is this business or is this organization, is this program really taking a whole system's true leadership approach to sustainability and climate action. So the six pillars are water efficiency. Energy efficiency, waste prevention and supply chain, soil health and biodiversity, social justice, and diversity, and inclusion. And then all of that falls within the umbrella of climate action and regenerative agriculture. So I think the that has really taken hold because a lot of people were looking for some kind of really clear structure, and and that has resonated with a lot of people, which which I'm grateful for. It's it is fascinating. This is a topic that has really become important to me over the past year as I've learned more and more about it, particularly this idea of social justice and sustainability having a lot to do with our workforce and our vineyard stewards, not just the land itself. So, how how is Napa Green going about the business of certifying vineyards and wineries? You know, how many certifications have been awarded since you started this? Yes. Well, I'll say first, we completely redeveloped our vineyard certification in twenty twenty one, so on a point you just made to focus specifically on regenerative Viticulture and climate action and social justice. And we really have very intentionally put that social equity element at the foundation. You know, you really can't have environmental or economic sustainability without social sustainability. And I will say it's interesting that at first when we came out that as the first element of six elements of our vineyard certification, there was pushback. People that, you know, over time, it's kind of been lost sight that social sustainability was always a core part of sustainability. But for many people, it's become only associated with environmental sustainability. And so we've we've seen a gradual, coming on board with that and embracing of that, but I did just have to have to mention that based on your point. But what we basically have is a road map for leadership for the vineyard. It's more than ninety different standards that vineyards have to implement. Growers have to implement, largely across those six pillars, but then they're kinda, you know, custom zoned in to to the vineyard. And then on the win winery side, same thing. There's six elements. There's actually more than a hundred and twenty five different standards that they have to implement, again, across those pillars. And, very specifically and interestingly to us, is that we don't just hand people a roadmap and say, go figure it out, hire a consultant, have fun, come back to us when you've done it, and someone will come out and third party certify you. We actually have an expert team that goes out and does boots on the ground work with the growers and with the mittner And so, I have team members that go out and do what are called carbon farm plans. So it's basically kind of a custom evaluation of where are you at right now in terms of regenerative practices and what more could you do to be more regenerative? And also does irrigation assessment. So how is your system doing in terms of efficiency and how could you really maximize efficiency? And then similarly on the winery side, we have an engineer that goes out and does what's called an integrated resource assessment that doesn't sound very sexy, but it's a really critical way of kind of one stop evaluating energy, water, waste, looking at all the systems and providing recommendations to make everything as efficient as possible. And and critically, we're also always focused on trying to help people save money, and reduce their bottom line. So we have these really interesting kinda one to one hand holding processes, but then people get through the standards. They get through the on-site work, and then they everyone has an action plan because this is all about continuing improvement. And someone comes out and does a third party audit and really just validates that everyone's walking the talk of what they're doing, they're what they say that they're doing, basically. I love that you have your own team that goes out and helps. I think this plays into your ethos of sustainability because your team is clearly as vested in in these wineries becoming certified, as they are. So I I think you're creating sort of this holistic three hundred and sixty gray system not only with the pillars and, you know, the standards that that people need to meet to become certified, but also with the interaction of your team, which I think is pretty unique. I can't think of anywhere else in the world where they are doing that with an in house team. So before we walk away from this, let's just, I I get what you said about how people push back against social sustainability. Let's just talk about this for our listeners who aren't all that familiar with that term. Can you sort of fill people in on what that actually means and what needs to be done to to add this, you know, to to our pillars of how we see ourselves as sustainable or not? Yeah. Well, first, you know, we're in an agricultural industry, so we're heavily dependent on farm workers. And and so that's a a group that, you know, often needs to be, cared for in ways that it sometimes hasn't been in the past. And then in our industry specifically, I'm a very candid person. You know, this has been a pretty overwhelmingly white, overwhelmingly male industry. And so we really have to think more about drawing a more diverse group of people both to drinking wine, but also working in wine. And and that will help draw a more diverse group of people into drinking wine. And so we have a kind of foundational set of standards both for the vineyard and for the winery. I take know, critically very important in the vineyard. And of course, that starts with with kind of basic things like a good living wage, competitive wage, and benefits, and and, vacation, and, you know, the classic ways that we care for employees, but then it also just moves into opportunities for advancement, doing performance reviews to make sure you know where people wanna be headed and what can you do to help them get there, doing, you know, doing training and what your sustainability commitments are and asking the teams for their input. Doing kind of cross collaborations where vineyard workers get to go into the winery and see what happens and winery folks get to go into the vineyard and see what happens. And again, trying to break down those silos. So it's really quite extensive around training, engagement, safety, care. And I think what what you find across the board, right, is if people feel cared for, and they feel safe, and they feel included, and they feel listened to, then they stick around. And especially in our industry, the value of people that have built that specialized knowledge in the vineyard and that specialized knowledge in the winery is particularly valuable, when you're making this agricultural crop product with the weather changing year to year, That specialized knowledge is critically important, and and we absolutely see those differences between places where they can't hold on to staff for more than a year. And what are those costs of that turnover and that new onboarding and that new training and that trying to get someone else up to speed? Versus we have places where everyone on the team has been there over ten years, and that turnover doesn't happen at all. So we try to think a lot about to kind of the return on investment of people, as you invest in people, they reinvest in your business. And so that's a really critical part of what we do. Well, of course, you're talking to the deI woman in wine here. So you're you're really singing my song. And and I think this is so important. So Let me ask you in terms of sustainability as a whole, but, you know, also kind of keeping our eye on this social justice side of things. You've done a lot of work on environmental management and policy, both nationally and internationally. So what differences do you see between the US and other countries in terms of wine industry sustainability. And I am completely on your page with, you know, this industry was fat old white men drinking Claret for a very long time. You know, what are the biggest challenges we face in getting organizations on-site with the concept of sustainability, climate action, social justice. How does the US compare? Well, how do other countries compare to the US? Because I think you're a bit ahead of us. Yeah. It's really interesting. I mean, so let let's be sure to kinda define. I'm gonna be talking specifically about sustainability in the wine industry if we're if we're looking at it specifically in that context. It's really interesting that, of course, I feel like Europe is really ahead of us in terms of that environmental consciousness, that commitment to climate action. But when it comes to social justice, social equity standards, specifically within the wine industry, There's a lot of work left to do, and especially, you know, because I come from having consulted in this space for a long time now running this nonprofit. I've really evaluated those, you know, all of those sustainable wine growing programs that are out there. So, again, kind of depending how you filter it, and I use the six the six pillars, but depending how you filter it, there's maybe fifteen to twenty sustainable wine growing specific programs in the world. And a lot of those programs are just for the vineyard, which I think is problematic because again, whole systems, we need to be thinking from soil to bottle from the farm through production. And a lot of those programs have absolutely no social equity standards. I mean, quite the majority. And so I think that is a very critical issue. We have to make sure that that is an element of any program that we really give, attention to as as showing leadership in this space. So I do think that it's interesting you say that because I've been sort of hearing that more and more of this feeling that in terms of this topic specifically, we really are stepping out as leaders, and and, you know, I'm I'm proud to do that and do that with my team because they're all very dedicated to this. We need you. We definitely need you. Just getting back to what do you think sort of the obstacles are in getting organizations on-site with these sorts of concepts? I mean, I live in Italy. Obviously, I've lived here for a while. Italy is is slow to change. We're quite cutting edge with sustainability in the vineyard. But I think we're a little behind on some of these other ideas. So what challenges do you face? You know, when you're doing things with with programs around the world or, you know, policy around the world. What are the obstacles? What do we need to break down here? Well, I think the first obstacle is one I've I pointed to, which is really, you know, I've studied this my whole life. So I I know deep in the weeds of how the sustainability conversation has developed and I won't go I won't go down that road. But, you know, initially when this concept really came to the forefront in the late eighties, early nineties, social sustainability was core. And over time, as I said, that's gotten lost. And the majority of people think sustainability equals environment. That's it. So a first challenge we have is getting people past that kind of siloed view of what sustainability means. Another challenge, of course, is this is this gets touchy. This is a sensitive topic. When you start talking about justice, I was I won't name names, but I was talking to someone, in a in a region, a country that's faced a lot of injustice. And she said, I love this term social justice, but a lot of people would balk at this because they they then it implies there's been injustice, which there has been, but we don't wanna talk about that. So, you know, these this is a sensitive topic. We're getting into things that people can be uncomfortable about. And I'd say specifically in our industry, it's really gone to the forefront since twenty twenty. And it's been hard for a lot of people to really embrace and feel like they, know how to speak about this the right way or come with the language. It it can be challenging, and that way it can make people uncomfortable. And so we have to get past that discomfort. I think another challenge and, you know, this isn't maybe consistent the world over, but especially here in California, is just how how heavily regulated we already are, and it and it just can be extremely onerous, especially around labor in many ways that are critically important, but can already be overwhelming businesses. And so they feel like, oh, well, isn't that you know, the fact that I'm meeting my compliance requirements, isn't that enough? Why are you asking me to do more? And while, you know, we sympathize with the regulatory burden, it's not enough. It's not it's does it's not requiring that next level leadership in terms of making sure employees, really feel engaged and listened to and cared for. And so getting past some of those hurdles is maybe here, you know, regionally one of the biggest, kind of pushbacks we've had is just we're already overwhelmed. Now you're asking us to do more. It's not even something we've associated with sustainability until now. But, you know, also one of the things we do is just put together resources, try to find the resources, So again, it's not just like we're sending you into the wilderness to figure it out for yourself. We really do try to help people fill any gaps that they need to fill, on this front. I think, yeah, I think you're are on the money there. I think sensitivity and discomfort, is a is a big problem getting getting this. And of course, you know, cultures vary around the world and people's reactions to to these sorts of con concepts are different, and getting what I always say is we need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. But, yeah, that's it's it's so interesting, what you said about that and and how to help people through it. And I know you've said in the past that policy versus boots on the ground give very different perspectives on sustainability. So, you know, you're talking about how your team gets out there and, you know, holds hands with people and actually stand shoulder to shoulder and says we're gonna help you do this. So, I'm just wondering what policy makers can learn from the boots on the ground team and implement. Well, I mean, this is probably just gonna sound like a maybe an unhelpful generalization, but just all, you know, almost all of the time people making policy have never been on the ground in the things that they're regulating. So just, you know, making that. And we've been mean, regionally, it's as close as something like the board of supervisors here. You know, we have a group kind of locally that sets a lot of the regional policy. And thankfully, we've been building a lot of strong relationships where they come out to our workshops and they come to the rise climate, wine symposium, and they're really building that true understanding of the industry that can help inform the decisions that they're making. Because we see we do see a lot of policy while I am not anti regulation. We do see a lot of policies coming coming through specifically in the environmental space that are kind of off the mark in really making the change that they wanna make. They're not necessarily focusing on the areas where they could have the biggest win. And that's really frustrating because so much money is going into these policies. One specific example I can give is we're really heavily focused on groundwater sustainability here in California. We've had a lot of draw down on our groundwater. But the the regulation and specifically more regionally is really focusing on irrigation, critically important, absolutely. But what we also have is a lot of tremendously unhealthy forests, which is, of course, contributing to all of the mega fires that we've been having. And once you improve forest health and reduce density and invasive species and over density of species that shouldn't be that dense. Forest are one of the main ways to store and capture and bring back water into a system, and yet our ground water water sustainability policy isn't focusing on forest restoration at all. So just one example is kind of a silo disconnect. So, you know, just wanting to get people to we're here for you to come out and connect, right, and and really understand the industries that you're regulating and see what the biggest opportunities are that that regulators can help support. I I like the way that you're approaching it, you know, as a as a means to creating leadership rather than a means to making corporations feel like they're not doing enough. I think, you know, encouraging people to lead is always a benefit because it comes with, you know, emotional and moral and philosophical responsibility, and and people can really stand up for that. So I like that approach that's not punitive, but, you know, really encouraging. So you you open the door for me because I wanna talk about RISE. So, first of all, tell everybody what the acronym stands for, and what's the symposium, the project itself all about because it's very cool. Yeah. So RISE, stands for resilience, innovation, sustainability, and empowerment, which I think is a wonderful name. But RISE in and of itself says a lot. This is something, again, so we're always thinking about, okay, what are some of the traditional things we're always seeing? We were thinking about conferences and symposiums. We're thinking, man, so many of these things are really kind of focused on education and inspiration and you go and you're kinda like it's a little too much sometimes and you're like, okay, that was cool and you go home and you typically go back into just your normal day to day and typical inertia. It's not really, a call to action or the empowerment that's needed to take that and have that impact. And so we thought we really wanna try to create, the leading kind of climate and wine symposium and have it absolutely be action and impact oriented. And then even in terms of its format, think about what are the some of the ways you can keep people energized and not just like fading out at the end of the day. So what it is is a series of six half day events, that are organized again around those six pillars. So each day is really focused saying in particular on one element like water or social justice or soil health and biodiversity, but then, of course, these are all integrated whole systems topics. So we're trying to make a lot of cross connections on any given day. But every day, it's there is an absolute call to action and a and a ask to commit to do at least one thing based on that day and to share that commitment and really trying to provide provide a lot of practical resources, including the people that are there to help create that action. So we've we already know of a lot of actions that have come out of that from groups that have formed around zero waste to wineries adopting blue morph like zero water or sanitation technology to another vineyard going no till coming out of the workshop, dry farming. Another vineyard decided to go into dry farming for after rise. So we've really felt a lot of kind of power behind just how many commitments to action there have been Of course, there's that education and inspiration. But we've now done it twice. We did it in twenty two and twenty three. Huge undertaking, seventy speakers, seven hundred and fifty guests last year. So we're now doing it every other year. We'll be doing it again the last week of April and the first week of May next year in twenty twenty five. And where will it be out of curiosity? We've been lucky. So far, it's been hosted at Charles Crude winery has a beautiful carriage house space in St. Elena and the Napa Valley. I think probably for the next one, we'll we'll go, kind of beyond Napa, hopefully. But, again, next year, it'll be, here in the Napa Valley. Fantastic. It's I think this is something that, you know, space allowing, we should be getting the word out there, getting people to come and get involved and, you know, hear the call to action. I think that's the first thing that we have to do. They don't know they need to take action until we fill them in about that. So, I I hope and it's very I just wanna stress too. It's it's relevant to anyone in the wine industry. It's funny how many times I've had people ask, oh, is this just for Napa? I struggle to think like what we could be talking about that would be just for Napa. But it's absolutely relevant to anyone in the wine industry. So we've we've been seeing more and more people from broader California, even international coming. So I just wanna stress this is something meant to be for anyone interested in leadership in the wine industry. Well, I'm gonna put all the links, in the show notes so that people can get in touch with you, get in touch with RISE and, and get more international people out there to hear, about all the things that you've got going because they're important. So I will make sure that's out there and anybody who's listening. How can they how can they get in touch with you, Anna, if they wanna go to rise? Just go to knackagreen dot org, and our emails are all easy. It's our first name at knackagreen dot org. So Anna at knackag green dot org. It's easy to track me down. And then we have rise green dot org is is the event space, but you can find all of that on map of green dot org. Fantastic. Thank you. So before I let you go, I know that, you know, as I earlier this year in vibe, made you to their list of people who will shape the way we drink. So you you that's, you know, no pressure there. No pressure. No pressure. In light of low alcohol, no alcohol, pet net, reeferment, all sorts of things. No pressure. So what new projects have you got coming up? I know you're working on a book about regenerative wine. So I wanna hear about that. What would you like to really achieve in the next five years? Because you know, you are on fire at the moment, and this is, well, hopefully not technically, but, you know, in terms of what you're doing for the industry, this is so important and it's so time sensitive. So talk about the book and then tell me what what you've got, you know, on the back burner for the next couple of years. Or the front burner. Yeah, we have a lot going on. I'll before I dive into the book, I'll say, some big things afoot, which is we are working on going beyond NEPA. There has been a recognition that we really are setting this very high, very rigorous bar. Some people love that. Some people don't. But there have been increasing requests for us to help people kind of beyond just our Napa County borders. And also again, those those really unique kind of consulting services that we do that no one else provides. So we are working on some regional expansion, so more to come on that. But we're also in conversations. There are some areas considering just licensing our standards, and we would serve as kind of consultants to help adapt them to other regions and and get programs established in other regions. So, you know, don't know for sure if that'll go, goes further. But I think if we're talking about five years, I do see that. I really see, an expansion, in in our touch points and our impact, and, of course, that'll come with you know, we'll always have our napa roots, but that will come with a a broader identity. So there's gonna be a lot more to come on that front and and a lot of work to do on that front, but it's really exciting. And then, yeah, I'm very excited about the book. We were just talking before this about just how much work a book is, but, I was actually at the, international masters of wine symposium last year, and there was a panel, with me, me, Castile, and Jamie Good, and some others talking about regenerative Viticulture. Obviously, this conversation is really kind of blowing up in our industry around regenerative. Again, it faces some of the challenges of sustainability, kind of what exactly doesn't mean. There isn't one definition. Our people starting to use this term without kind of a whole systems approach. And so as I was hearing, these leaders talk about this last year. I thought, you know, we really, a, through with the rise symposium, actually, we formed close relationships with a number of the worlds after loot leaders in regenerative agriculture, including Mimi Castile and Kelly Mulvel at Piciness Ranch and Jason Haucett, Thomas Creek. And, so I just started thinking we really need to bring a whole kind of set, of global voices together to talk about what this means and what does it really look like from a whole systems integrated approach? And so I got this sort of inspiration to try to bring twelve global leaders together. To each write a chapter, and it and also critically not just have it be about kind of the technical, the tools, really about telling a story that because that's what brings us all in. That's what what kinda tugs at the heartstrings is telling a true story of the journey and what worked and what didn't. And so I reached out to all the people I already mentioned and more. And so we now have eleven authors each writing a chapter, and it is totally international. So that includes Mikayle Moneli at Salceto right near backyard. That includes Noel Ots in Chile at a Maliana, and Yohan Reineke in South Africa, and, Dudley Brown and Arena Santiago Brown in Australia. So we're really trying to bring a kinda glow full global perspective to how are we re approaching regenerative Viticulture. It's exciting, and it's also corralling, twelve different voices, and and I'm writing the introduction. So but we're well on our way, and I think it's a pretty exciting, project. And hopefully that book will be available in the not too distant future. Well, let's let's define from your perspective regenerative line for people who are listening. You know, I work with Old Vines Conference. Old Vines is another term that we're working on defining. So, regenerative winemaking, definition of from Anna. Well, thankfully, I was at an event last week where I was asked this question. So I've had a little practice. I mean, at its core, regenerative is about the soil. It's about cultivating soil that as is as a live and healthy as possible. And so it's about farming for soil as opposed for, in our case, farming for the fruit. As you farm for the soil, you have a healthier plant. You have a better crop, and you have a whole system because it's all of it's about this biodiversity and this health both below ground and above ground, a system that's better able to moderate itself that requires less human intervention to moderate itself and can bet better weather extremes. Like the heat spikes that we're having going from drought to incredible what it's called atmospheric rivers now of insane rainstorms. You know, having here we've had over a hundred and fifteen degrees. I can't immediately translate that to Celsius. Yeah. It's about forty four. Yeah. Incredibly high temperatures. So it's about kind of that building that happy microbial community, that diversity and cover crops, that diversity in plants, that diversity in animals, that just healthy system that's retaining water, storing water, delivering water, that is able to really be more resilient to the changes we're having and really create as as healthy and as place representative of a crop as possible. That would be my not so quick definition. No. I think that's a brilliant definition. And I I love the wines from Salcato. I'm so happy you've gotten Kaylee writing a chapter for you. It's a wonderful winery, with a beautiful ethos and and a beautiful location that they have carefully carefully built with this, concept of being regenerative, in mind. So I know you'll get a great chapter from him for sure. But Yes. And I wanna visit. It's a good used to try to visit all of these beautiful places. Absolutely. Absolutely. You'll need photos. You have to go take them. Right. I mean, I'm just darn. I'm gonna have to do it. Anna, I cannot thank you enough for coming on today. This is such an interesting conversation for me. I, you know, sort of like sustainability. When people hear the words DeI, they, you know, they think about, people of color and, you know, LGBTQ community and and things like this. But for me, DeI has really morphed into a concept where diversity in our perspective within our wine industry is just as important as our own personal backstory. So, I love hearing your perspective. Nampa Green is doing so many great things. I know that, you know, regional expansion will come. I hope it becomes global expansion soon because we need you. But thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. Thank you. It's really great to connect with you. I appreciate it as well. Thank you for listening, and remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. 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