Ep 2359 Lauren Buzzeo | Voices with Cynthia Chaplin

So full pour was really created to again offer that space, for all of those categories to be equally represented in every issue. So organic inclusivity, not just a one off around a holiday or a seasonal thing, but every issue dedicated to having representation of vinified, brewed, distilled, infused, and non alcoholic beverages. Because again, to me, it was very important right from the start to make clear. This is an equal opportunity, safe space for drinkers of all types. No matter what you put in your glass, there's a story, there's a history, there's a culture, there's some meat for us to get into. And that's what we really aim to do. Well, it Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, your host. And today, I am so delighted to welcome Lauren Boutzio to voices. Lauren is the founder and editor and publisher of Full Poor. Which is an independent magazine that celebrates social drinks and beverage culture. And previously she worked with wine enthusiasts for almost sixteen years, starting out as a tasting coordinator, and working her way up to tasting director and eventually all the way up to executive director, but she decided to self fund and launch full pour in twenty twenty three. I can't wait to hear what craziness inspired this, leaning on her belief that the approach to beverage culture could be different from the status quo, which is definitely how I feel about things, and looking to make drinks, journalism accessible, and more diverse. So We are on the same page. I've been looking forward to this conversation. So welcome, Lauren. Thank you for coming today. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. I know this is gonna be such a great conversation. Good. Alright. Well, let's we're gonna we're diving straight in because I I'm really interested in this story. I've I've had a really good time stalking you and looking at the magazine. So this is this is gonna be a fun one. So I know during your time at wine enthusiasts, you started your push to promote acceptance for what you called cross drinking and encouraging everyone to embrace finely crafted liveations across all beverage categories, which I like that. I like a good old fashioned word, a live nation. So first of all, I am one hundred percent on board with this mission. But I wanna know how you segued from, you know, almost sixteen years at wine enthusiasts into the idea of full pour and working for yourself. Yeah. I think you sort of alluded to it at the beginning, a little bit of craziness, and, basically, you know, I spent, as you said, a lot of time at wine enthusiasts and and more traditional drinks media, I suppose you can call it. And that time was wonderful, and certainly, you know, very proud of all of our accomplishments during that time. But as so many people, you know, during the pandemic and just going through this crazy world and life of ours, I I think that there is a point, where I just questioned what I could be doing differently, what I was doing that didn't necessarily align, what I was doing in my personal life, and with friends and family and socially that didn't necessarily align with some of the content and the directives that we were promoting and putting out, in in my former publication, particularly when it comes to cross drinking, and drinking across categories, which you know, I think this sort of notion of drinking with category exclusivity was something that a lot of, particularly wine media sort of, was founded on, right, and really rode that idea that people were very invested in this singular category and didn't necessarily embrace the others. I definitely saw that shifting very drastically, in my time and certainly over the last few years that I was there. And unfortunately, when you have a legacy hub, it's very difficult to sort of shift, shift your focus and the narrative of embracing other drinks and categories when that's not necessarily what people, you know, signed up for and were interested in in terms of the voices that were coming from that publication. So, again, through the pandemic, just sort of having these thoughts, you know, what could I be doing different? Where is my heart? What would I like to put into this world that I just don't have the opportunity to at this point in time? And, with that, I ultimately decided that, yes, after nearly sixteen years, it was maybe time for me to consider a new adventure. So I left in April or excuse me, May of twenty twenty two, and I honestly, Cynthia didn't know that I was going to start a new publication. I just, you know, figured that it was time to give myself the space to really assess, you know, what that next move was. And after spending this summer with my kids, going to Disney World as one does when they need to, you know, celebrate some shift and have some epiphany moment with Mickey Mouse by your side. I actually went to a big wine festival in South Africa called Capeline that's September. And it was the first time that Capeline had been back since before the pandemic. And formerly, I had reviewed the wines of South Africa at wine enthusiasts. So getting back there, reconnecting with all of these people, stories, places, wines that were really just so near and dear to my heart and and remain so today, but having the chance to really again, reimburse myself in that world. Just really reignited, a fire and what they call a peace, a spirit within me, feeling like This is what I love. This is my world. I cannot leave it. I cannot abandon all of these stories and opportunities, but I think that we could do more with it. And that extends to wine. But again, also thinking about those other categories that really to me do not have a lot of representation in terms of drinks, Vedia. So left Cape Line came home, started a business plan, launched full pour in March twenty twenty three, and the rest is history. And so Fapor was really created to again offer that space, for all of those categories to be equally represented in every issue. So organic inclusivity not just a one off around a holiday or a seasonal thing. But every issue dedicated to having representation of vinified brood, distilled, infused, and non alcoholic beverages. Because, again, to me, it was very important right from the start to make clear. This is an equal opportunity, safe space for drinkers of all types. No matter what you put in your glass, there's a story, there's a history, there's a culture, there's some need for us to get into, and that's what we really aim to do. Well, it's, I love the term cross drinking libations. I mean, I I'm a very visual person. So I I have this image of some really cool retro sort of vintage shop where you just go in and you try on all the drinks instead of all the clothes that, and and no one judges you for whatever drink you put together and which one you have first and which one you have last. And So it for me, that term cross drinking libations was very, really evocative in my mind of what you were going for. So the one thing we haven't discussed, the the big elephant in the room here is that interestingly full for is a print magazine. So, you know, when you started in twenty twenty three, I think a lot of people were a little shocked about this, you know, this dinosaur idea of I'm going to make a print magazine, And I I really wanna talk about this because I'm super old school. I love a real book. I love a real magazine. You know, obviously, I live in twenty twenty five, so I've had to adapt at least somewhat to everything being online. But, I do like a print thing, and it's unusual. More more most of the time you hear about, you know, traditional print things going online and stopping their print production. So what made you decide to go for publishing a hard copy print magazine and what has the response been like over the past you've only really been doing it for two years. So, how how have people reacted to it and and how's it going and why on earth did you decide to do that? I said it already because I'm crazy. And honestly, I'm the first to call myself a dinosaur, for believing in it. But you know what, interestingly enough, I have discovered that I am not a dinosaur. I'm actually, and we are actually just embracing a modern perspective and a renewed appreciation of this medium. Because if you look at the data, what's actually driving, the resurgence that we're seeing right now in terms of print publications and print magazines in particular, I think people often falsely assume that it is perhaps people of an older generation that are looking for something nostalgic where it actually is the complete opposite. It is much younger demographics and generations that didn't necessarily have exposure to a plethora of print publications and this medium in a real, you know, in a real way, before that they've been inundated with the digital space and, and online options. And they're actually looking for something a little bit more analog and tangible because they hadn't had that experience. And I think interestingly enough talking about some of the, you know, you mentioned magazines that actually transitioned to digital, and and stopped printing their print publications if you look at some of them that have actually come back over the last year or two, whereas everyone sort of again shifted away, especially during the pandemic, but now people are coming back and what's driving that is very much a younger generation of owners, supporters, editors who are picking up whether they're starting new magazines, or they're reigniting and bringing back to print, some legacy pubs if you look at, like, Severe and Mountain Gazette and Field and Stream. It's a really exciting time for print publications and especially for independent journalism and independent magazines. There is, again, this this hunger, this building hunger and appreciation, And that's really what interested me to become, you know, a part of and involved in and champion, in whatever way I could because I very much believe in the power of print, like you were saying, and that it offers a different experience than digital. Digital is fantastic. We all it is undoubtedly a part of our everyday lives now. But there's a place in the space and you need for everything, right? So when you're talking about a print magazine, it is it is just a different experience in terms of the very intentional layout, the contributions to it, the thoughtfulness, the production, and just the escape from the screen for a little bit of time. You know, we're all constantly scrolling on our phones, on computers, you know, working, whatever. It gives you a print magazine gives you that excuse to just disconnect from the noise from the constant messages, from the pop ups, the ads, the blue screen, and just enjoy some me time and transport and get lost in beautiful words and images to really just take you to a different place and space in your head. And that's what I wanna offer to people in our magazine. I wanna give them an excuse to get away for a little bit. Let's be fair. You can't, you know, sit with your screen, you know, on the beach or in the bathtub. And, you know, you have you have this sensory tactile experience with a magazine or a book that you don't have with a kindle or scrolling or, you know, reading reading a magazine online. So I think there is that You know, we all lost a bit of connection during COVID. We all know that. And to actually hold something in your hand feels great. You know, and we're we're people are meant to touch things. So, you know, and smell things. You know, you smell the print, you know, I like print ink and stuff like that. So Cynthia, when my delivery arrives of a new issue, the house smells like freshly inked paper, and it is just the most beautiful thing. I cannot help but open the pages. I know it's so weird, but, like, I know people do this. You go to a library, open books, open up, and you just smell it. And it's just it's a sigh of relief. You smell that and you know okay. This is what I'm doing. This is what I'm giving to myself. This is where I'm going, and I'm gonna enjoy it and embrace every second of it. So, yes, there's just the yes. There's just something completely different and that community aspect as well. Like, you know, perhaps you could read a magazine on a tablet or a computer, but is it the same as having again this beautiful print package and having it on a coffee table or having it at the beach or wherever you are and then engaging with people as they see it and talking about it and talking about some of the things you learned in it, and sharing it, there is a communal aspect to print that just doesn't also exist in a digital space or exist differently. Yeah. So true. That's so it's so true. It's it's much more three sixty of an experience than digital is. So I'm gonna hit you up with sort of the obvious counter argument to this. It's it's very clear to anybody who's watching this that we are big print enthusiasts, but, I know one of the issues that works against publishing anything in print these days is sustainability. And I know you're really aware of this. So, you know, I'm a writer, I'm an author, and I know how, you know, how much the joy I feel when I hold my printed, you know, article in a magazine or a book that I wrote in my hand. It's not the same as seeing it on my kindle. But you know, we do know that that there are concerns. There are issues about, you know, sustainability for printed matter, you know, savory, all of these things. So I wanna talk about what full pour is doing to address the sustainability question because I know that it is something that's important to you. Definitely. And I think it's an interesting conversation because when you toss around the word sustainability, there's just so many ways to consider what that actually means and what that concept extends to. Right? So, hopefully, I'm not gonna forget some of those other things after I talk about print. But to start, for full pour, and when I was putting everything together, there were a lot of rabbit holes that I fell down. And I think the driving, again, the driving mission and conversation in my head, every step of the way was what can I be doing different? What can I be doing better? And it's not to say that anything is the best because we should always be striving to make improvements along the way. Right? So nothing is ever set, set and done. But in thinking about that question and that driving, you know, ethos, I really wanted to make sure that I was as environmentally sustainable as possible with this. Because you're right. There are concerns there. There are concerns in the digital space as well. Look at the conversations we're having about, you know, minerals, and sourcing, and power. But beyond that, going back to print, I wanted to make sure that we were as environmentally friendly and sustainable as possible. So I really wanted to make sure that I had a printing partner that was aligned to that mission as well. And what that really translates to now in terms of what we offer is that we are printed on a hundred percent post consumer waste recycled paper. It is uncoated. So there's no plastics or laminates or anything that affects recyclability because I think a lot of people don't realize, that some of those really beautiful, thick glossy things that you can't necessarily rip those are not recyclable. They jam up recycling plants. So even if you think, oh, I'm gonna put this in a recycling bin, it's not gonna help. So we we have none of that. We use natural, soy or vegetable based inks and toners. And our printer works with a program called the print relief program, which also offers certified reforestation and carbon offset projects, for paper based businesses. So again, really trying to think of all the ways that we could be as environmentally friendly as possible. This is even extended to our mailers. So, you know, a lot of time you'll get a publication that's wrapped in a beautiful classic poly bag that goes nowhere, or, yeah, goes nowhere and stays around forever. So I really didn't wanna do that, but there are certainly drawbacks to using a paper based mailer, you know, in terms of inclement weather or, protection. So I found this beautiful cornstarch based mailer that's completely compostable and biodegradable. That is super strong and protective, and we mail all of our single issues and subscriptions, using that. So there's a variety of ways that we can really think about this, and sustainability and environmental cost, but I think also, again, I have to say when you're talking about sustainability, it's also thinking about that bigger picture and what that means for not just the environment, but also you know, socially, economically, you know, culture wise. What are we doing and what are we putting in? So when we're having this conversation about sustainability, I think that it's really important to consider again all of the ways that businesses and people can be considering what that term means and extends to. So it's not just the environment, although that's obviously key and clutch. But it's also, you know, socially, economically, the people that we're working with, the cultures that we're embracing and including There's a lot that we need to be taking into consideration for, again, an organic and authentic representation that's supporting all of those various elements that go into longevity in a very positive and sustainable way. Yeah. I I totally agree, and I I really wanted to highlight that because I know how much thought and effort you've put into that. And it's it's not something that people automatically think of, and it's important to note that, you know, time and planning and money. It's it's expensive to buy some of these products that would be cheaper on, you know, un recyclable plastic is a lot cheaper than that. But, I love that you've gone to that effort for full pour. So I know you've also said that you're committed to looking for very specialized high quality partnerships with dedicated partners that you know and believe in. You know, you're not just advertising for the sake of advertising. And you've called the program flow into community. And I I really love this. So I want, you know, I wanna hear more. Tell us about the philosophy behind the program and how it's actually working in practice for the magazine. Yeah. So you know, I I've been an editor, and a writer, my entire life. But in thinking about some of the more business elements of, of the publication, you know, not necessarily my my strong suit, but if I was going to do it and manage it, I wanted to make sure that it was real and comfortable and something that I believed in and could support every step of the way. So in in putting together everything for the magazine, you know, obviously, the the editorial intent and mission is very clear. But I really wanted to also reimagine what partnerships and advertising could look like. Again, what could we do different, what could we do better? The very straight transactional, here's an ad, here's dollars, thank you. Bye, did not really sit well with me and was not something again that I was really comfortable, going out and doing. I really felt like there was an opportunity to do more, and to be of greater service in these packages. So that's how I came up with the flow into community program, which is essentially we work with a limited number of partners per issue. We work with only one partner per beverage category, to give the greatest, again, organic, partnership and representation and impact for readers as well. So only one partner per category, and we work with them to not only do the traditional, you know, full page ad for the client, but we work with them to select a nonprofit in the food beverage hospitality space at large that really matters to them and matters to folklore and that are doing fantastic work that we all should recognize and support to the best of our abilities. And, once we select that nonprofit, we put together a spotlight page that also goes into the issue, that we're working with the partner on. So these spotlight pages give an opportunity to give visibility and a little bit more information about these nonprofits and the work that they do. In addition to that, we have, a grapevine page. Think of it as like Kickstarter, but instead of, crowd funding, it's crowd giving. And anyone and everyone is welcome to donate to this grapevine page, and folklore puts in a standing donation as well. And then at the end of every issue season, any donations that go into the grapevine fund are then dispersed to the nonprofits from that issue as well. So essentially, I really wanted to again create a way that offered, a little bit more impact and meaning behind these partnerships that went just beyond self serving good. Right? That really gave more visibility and, and more awareness to a lot of these nonprofits that are doing fantastic work, but don't necessarily promote themselves. Don't take out advertising. You know, So that's that's what we came up with and that's what we try to do in terms of supporting nonprofits. Well, it's really interesting because, you know, every issue has this flow into community spotlight that I really responded to when I first saw it. You know, it's It looks the same. Every time it has the same sort of sagey green background, and and always a little bit of, you know, information about what's going on. So it just so that people understand exactly what you're doing. Can you rattle off the name of a few that have been in there because they're really, really interesting. Of the non profits? Yeah. For sure. So in the case of, wine partners, we've worked with, nonprofit orgs like wine Unifi, wine empowered. Basically, I I think the biggest intent for a lot of these partnerships would be education, awareness, and accessibility. Right? Anything that's really promoting opportunity for people to become more aware invested and involved in our food and beverage space, generally, are the, the nonprofits that we love to highlight and center. In the case of brewing, something like the Michael James Jackson Foundation Foundation, which offers scholarships for up and coming brewers and distillers. It there's there's just a variety of so many wonderful nonprofit orgs, from World Central Kitchen. To yeah. No. No. I'm flagging, but there's just so many. Yeah. It's amazing that when I as I said, I've been I've been trolling through all your back issues and things. And one of the ones that I saw is one called Ben's friends, which is actually supporting people who are on a sobriety path, which I thought was just, you know, fundamental to what you were talking about about having a magazine that, you know, is talking about alcoholic beverages, but has made space for people who don't drink alcohol and are looking at, you know, no alcohol things. And people who need support on that journey are are just even a sense of community. So I I love the flow into community spotlight. I think it's a great way to as you said, not just take dollars from an advertiser, but actually engage, you know, with with something else that the advertisers is interested in as well. So, Yeah. And I think it's also, you know, aligned to the intent or the hope that we're building community here. You know, we want everyone to have a seat at the table no matter what they're filling their glass with, and that extends to a variety of different opportunities. And giving, giving a chance for, again, some companies or organizations, partners that might not have an existing program, with a nonprofit, but really want to become involved. And this is just a way to have that introduction to start somewhere. Because I think a lot of people also and myself included sort of perhaps feel stymied and intimidated getting into some of this work because I you might not have, you know, all of the money that you wish you can give them. But in every case, every dollar counts, all of the support and all of in any fashion and any medium that you can give, it all matters. It all matters a lot to these organizations. So, you know, I think it's it's trying to remove that that idea or that notion that there is a a sort of a barrier to entry and that anyone and everyone can and should get involved however they can. Yeah. I I really I really love that. So Alright. We've covered all the, like, heavy, beefy stuff. So now I really wanna get into into the juicy bit, you know, the content of the magazine because, I I love the look of it. Full four is really visually attractive. You know, I know it was important to you to get it right. And, you know, it's super colorful. It has, you know, really interesting graphics and artwork and different fonts. So you know, what gave you the idea for the name. First of all, I'm dying to know. And, you know, who works on the art and the editing? And, you know, you've got this really kind of unique vibe. So how are you shaping your content to keep that look and feel consistent because it's it's really a stand out. Thank you. I just so appreciate that. I don't even know where to begin. So so Let's start with the name. Where did the name come from? Yeah. The name actually came to me in a dream. So honestly, what came to me, was really just the poor part. I didn't know what the other part of it was going to be. I knew it wasn't just poor. But the poor and with, the styling of the logo, that that's my writing. That's that came to me in a dream, and then I created it, cleaned it up in a online program to make the logo. But the poor part came and then, you know, brainstormed a bunch of different ideas, ultimately came down to, a few different options. And at the end of the day, it was actually my nine year old, soon ten year old son that helped me, land on full pour, out of the different options that we were weighing because he said, mom. Full pour. It's epic. It's everything. That's what you want. I'm like, yeah, leave it to a nine year old to just, like, simplify all of the noise and thoughts and what ifs in your brain to be like, obviously, it's this. Yeah. Nobody wants a short pour. Everybody wants Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was like fresh pour. Yeah. A bunch of different other ideas, and he was just like, mom, it's full pour. So I have to thank my son for that. He'll he'll he'll take his thanks in in royalties. I'm sure. I'm sure one day. And then in terms of just the look and the overall aesthetic of the magazine, I think, you know, I I definitely love a lot of, again, independent magazines, noble rot, tonic, which is also international based, you know, cherry bomb. There's just there's a beauty and there's a different you know, look and imprint to those publications, that's that's not replicated in what you see again in traditional media and largely on the shelves of, you know, magazine retailers. So This is how I found you, actually, because I spoke to, Stacy Buchanan not long ago who does blood of god's scene, and that's completely different. You know, it caught my eye because it's not at all traditional alcoholic beverage magazine. So and yours yours is not either. It's, you know, it's a really, you know, a little bit less dark of a vibe, but, but yeah, really so visually appealing. You know, really, really has mass appeal whether you are you know, in the alcoholic beverage scene or not, the magazine is very welcoming. It's, you know, I'm I'm interested to know. I need Tuesday. Yes. Thank you. I love blood of gods. Yes. I love one of god's. I love Stacy. I love all of the artwork in there. I definitely contributed to it before as well. Definitely support that. But I think along the way somewhere, you know, line journalism in particular. I could say drinks to be generic, but line journalism in particular really lost a little bit of of fun. It it lost a bit of, flavor and accessibility and approachability. And that's not to say, you know, it's not just ten sauvignon blancs to drink on your porch because at summertime, that's not just what makes something accessible. It, you know, it it it has to look attractive. It has to look modern and feel real. And I think what helped me in terms of the aesthetic of full pour is the opportunity to work with so many different wonderful contributors across words and art. And that that was something that from the start was incredibly important to me, that I always wanted to be open and welcoming to people of all backgrounds, walks of life, experience level, whatever it may be to contribute their varied perspectives to these pages. Because, you know, it's it's an interesting thing to try to offer consistency while also space for variety. And that, I guess, is, you know, the, the overarching hope that we provide in terms of some consistency of styling and fonts and whatnot, but It really is trying to afford creatives of different walks and experiences. The opportunity to share their story in and, impressions in our pages. And that goes even down to the cover artists. You know, I work with a different artist for every issue. And is it is it difficult? Maybe, but, is it worth it? Absolutely. I mean, the variety of how artists can represent what full pour means to them on these covers is just it's a thing that gives me such great joy, every single issue. I'm always surprised, always pleasantly so, but it's always just so beautiful to see the artists just organically, again, do their thing and share their feelings through their beautiful work. Well, when you start merchandising, I think you should turn them into posters because they are. They're incredible. You know, I'm I I hope that you have each one frame known well somewhere. I have a bunch of huge posters downstairs. Absolutely fantastic. I was really struck by the visual impact and, you know, the playfulness, you know, the the real you sense an enthusiasm for, you know, for what's gonna be discussed in the covers and you wanna get in there and see. So it's it's really great. Yeah. I think it's energy, you know, it's vibrancy, it's energy, it's life. And again, I think, unfortunately, you know, we've we lost a little bit of life somewhere along the way in in some wine reporting, but I think it can and should be fun and beautiful and maybe a little funky, maybe a little irreverent, but, like, it always makes sense and it always feels right. Yeah. The content is serious. I mean, the content is it it some of it might be presented in a less, you know, sort of less elevated way than, you know, when we're talking about traditional historic magazines for for wine, but the content is is serious. It's it's informative. It's serious. It's it's very interesting and, you know, often really on trend and presented in this great way. So Obviously, I have become a big fan since I started, looking into you. But so now I'm gonna ask you a little bit more on the personal side. Because, you know, you're a young woman, you're you're publishing your own magazine in a very challenging moment in time for alcoholic beverages. Very challenging for diversity support. You live in the US, so we aren't gonna go down that road. But, you know, challenging no, challenging for for everything, equality, equity, all sorts things. And you've got this, you know, still a very much of a toddler magazine. You know, it's only been going for two years, talking about all of these things that are under threat right now. So, you know, I know you're also a wife and a mom and you know, a a very professional career oriented person. So how are you balancing all these aspects of your life? Because it's challenging. I've I've just come off of three weeks of Vin Italy, exhibition here in Perenna, and conference down on Mount Aetna. And it's it's a tough time in the in the alcohol world, but it's a tough time in the diversity world and the inclusion world as well. So how are you balancing all of this? You know, it's I raised a very large family myself, but it's not easy and it's not easy to advance your career and and be there for your children and be a thoughtful wife and be a good role model for everybody and run your business. So how are you taking care of yourself How are you balancing the challenges against everything else you have to do in a day? I wish I had an answer for that. I mean, I think you're doing just fine. I think we're all doing just fine. I think we need to give ourselves credit for all that we're able to do and accomplish, but without a doubt, none of it is easy. You know, it it's I think at the end of the day, the passion and the belief of what we put our energy into has to be your driving force for the quality and the allocation of time and energy that you spend on it. Certainly, you know, there's pluses and minuses to having your own business and working for yourself. But the huge plus being that I am here. I am here for my children when they need me. I'm here for my family. I can, you know, I can do things that honestly I was not able to do, before, working for somebody else. So that in and of itself is an absolute blessing that I do not take for granted. Does it make things challenging, in other ways? Absolutely, when there are things that need to be done for the magazine when I am on deadline, when I am stressing about tariffs or whatever is coming next, all the time. But you have to, again, you have to make a very conscious effort to be present where you need to be present at that moment and not let some of the other areas that could be affecting your space and your well-being impact you while you need to be present in that space. I think that part of the good thing that Full Pore does, you know, as we said at the beginning, you know, it is a it is a print magazine. You're not scrolling through screens. You're not getting flashing pop up messages. It gives you time to just settle into one thing to think about even if you just read one article for ten minutes, you know, you have completely disconnected from from all this other noise. So, I'm glad to to hear that. So before I let you go, because I know you have other things to do today, what are the plans for the next couple of years? You know, where would you like to see the magazine go? What's in the pipeline? What what are the what it's the hope and the dream in the next couple of years? Yeah. I mean, on its basic level, I hope in the dream is to be able to continue doing what we're doing. And I think, you know, what I'd like to see overall is just this continued push and sort of realignment of value and appreciation of of the service that journalism provides. And, you know, certainly for me personally, I'm talking about drinks journalism, but I think overall this is a question of journalism for everyone in every way in every space. The importance, the integrity, the intentionality behind all of it. I think, you know, again, the internet is fantastic. It's allowed great access to information at all times, which is certainly amazing. But it's also encouraged this idea that everything can or should be free at all times. But that's not how everything works. And there are sacrifices with that in terms of, again, quality, value, the standards, the ethics, the policies, the reporting, it all, you know, aligns somewhere. It all takes resources. So I think it's just, you know, hopefully we will, have greater understanding and appreciation for the value that real journalism, not AI, brings to your world. Thank you for saying that. Yes. Not AI. We use no AI for edit, for art, for none of it because creativity and, creative thought an independent thought is something that we all need to be very protective of and again remember the importance and value of. So when you're out paying seven dollars for a Starbucks coffee every week or fifteen dollars for a glass of wine on the night out. There's no reason why it should be mind blowing to think that you could pay five dollars a month for an independent media outlet. We just need to we just need to remember that. Yeah. I think there's also an element of patience that everyone has forgotten. You know, I'm I'm older than you, but, you know, I remember when I had to wait for, you know, the next season of my show, and I had to wait. And my show was only on on Monday, and I had to wait. And, you know, my magazine, I had to wait for it to come in the post. And there's something, you know, really nice about that anticipation period And when it arrives, how great it is, I think this culture we live in now where everything is available online, all the time, twenty four seven, you don't have to wait for anything in AI. You don't have to wait to have an original thought. You can just find one generated for you. I think, what you're doing has a lot to do with, with, you know, just sort of humanity and patience. And going back to that moment of, okay, I would like to have a little anti a patient of something I'm looking forward to rather than instant gratification. So, I'm I'm really happy to hear that. I'm really happy to hear that. I support this all the way, and there is a reason that I had to tattoo be patient on my wrist. Fantastic. Okay. I did not know that, so that was lovely. To remind myself, and I think we all again just need to remind ourselves. Sometimes you have to be patient and you have to, again, have some thought and be very intentional with the choices that you're making, what you're supporting, what you're putting your dollars behind, who you're talking to, when you're talking, you know, what you're talking about, all of it matters, just like the the every dollar with the nonprofits all of our moves matter. So, yeah, taking the space and the awareness to just be present through all of those things. So when I call you back in twenty twenty seven, what will you be doing with full four? Excellent question. Again, hopefully, just putting out the magazine as we have it, you know. I'd I'd love to say that I'd love to do more magazines, but that's only a product of just the amount of wonderful pitches and stories that we receive and that I just don't have, the space and the ability to run all of them. But do I think that that would be a reality? Probably not. You know, I I think that there's, again, there's a reason and an intentionality behind all of it. So I'm hoping that we can just continue on that trajectory. Maybe add a few pages if things go well. Good. Alright. Well, thank you so much, Laura, and thank you so much for being with us today and being so open about full forward. We wish you all the best of luck as it keeps going and growing and getting bigger and better. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world and the only one with a daily show tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods.