Ep. 566 Dame Tonya Pitts | Voices

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Rebecca Lawrence, and this is voices. In this set of interviews, I will be focusing on issues of inclusion diversity and allyship through intimate conversations with wine industry professionals from all over the globe. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps us cover equipment, production and publication costs, and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast with me Rebecca Lawrence. Today, I've got a super exciting conversation to share with you. Because I'm joined by Tanya Pitts, wine director at San Francisco's one market restaurant, board member of wine Unify, and Batonage. Welcome to the podcast Tanya. Thank you for having me today, Rebecca. This is very very exciting. And I miss traveling, and I miss Italy, and this just gets me one step closer to actually being there. I can pretend. We're desperate to get you back here. So let's give our listeners who maybe aren't aware of you a little bit of background because it's quite interesting. You you came to wind through an unusual path. First, you studied law, then you followed the dream of becoming an artist, found yourself in San Francisco, and then suddenly this led you to wine. So my name is Tonya Pitts, and I am a long time Samoye and wine professional here in San Francisco, California. I have been in my current position at one market restaurant for thirteen years now as a wine director and Samuel And I have been in the wine industry as a wine director in Sommelier for many decades, you know, and I am usually at about this time getting ready for work. But, unfortunately, because of the pandemic, that really did shift and and change everything. And as I think back, my actually, tomorrow, this time last year, tomorrow would have been my last day of physically being in the restaurant and and working because that is the day that I cleaned out my office, which is in the cellar because of the shutdown. And you can imagine being in that space and clearing out majority of things that were mine and my identity from place that I considered home and a place of my own. And, yeah, it, and even now when I go back, you know, periodically to to do things and to help out. As we are still kind of been shut down and starting to come alive again a little bit. And, it just feels so surreal to to walk into my space, my home, as I as I call it. But what has been really amazing about this time away and not being in the restaurant, is having more time and energy to put towards something that I had already done anyway, which is mentorship. And we have at the restaurant, a program set up with the University of San Francisco, with their hospitality department, an internship program. And so I would have at least two interns during the year that I would work with and mentor besides my staff, in the restaurant. And various people that would, be introduced to me or that would come into the restaurant, who some of those people were not necessarily, even wine professionals, but budding wine professionals, well, that were already collectors and very much into wine that wanted to shift careers as they were ending another career. And so there was a lot of that as well. And, you know, I'd say that first month, I didn't know what to do with myself. Because of just the pace in in which my life was. You know, I would get up and meditate and walk and and start my day and and my day would start even before I got to the rest got before I got into the cellar and just shifting that energy until for the first month, I didn't know what to do with myself. And so I threw myself into studies and Zoom calls and and seminars and all sorts of things. And then it's just like, okay. What more can I do? And when Martin Reyes, who is, one of the founders at One Unifi, a master of wine reached out to me. And he's like, hey, you know, are you around? You know, I I wanna talk to you about something. And before he could finish everything, I said yes. You know, tell me about wine and find what they were planning. And I said, you know, it's whatever you need me to do, whatever you want me to do, you know, absolutely, because I knew that it was something that our industry soiling needed. You know, I had a a long friendship as well with the Lynn Procter and another founder, Mary Margaret, manic, mechanic, who is also, master wine and another founder who I've become really very close, with as well as they put, you know, all of this together. It's just been really encouraging and just something that sorely needed in our community, you know, in in the wine community. And, you know, from there, others asked for my assistance and help And there's other organizations that I am not on the board, but wherever anyone has asked me to lend my voice, I have done so. And, I think that with the work that I'm doing with, with Batonanage Forum, which Batonanage Forum had been set up originally as a organization for women in the wine community to come together and to talk about whatever issues were happening in wine and and and problem solve and be a support for one another. And within the pandemic, and as we are now, both Sarah Bray and Stevie, Stekhanis, where the founders decided to broaden everything and to have specific categories within the organization that focused on, you know, sales and marketing hospitality, which I head up that that category and part of the association and winemaking and then vinticulture. So it's it's just been it's been wild. It's been really wonderful. And I've bounded with all of these women. We have a call every Friday at eight AM, you know, and definitely restart our day, you know, and it says it's been just really, really wonderful. But it's it these are all, as I said, programs that are needed in our industry. You know? And and the one the fantastic thing about that analogy is that we are international. We have had women reach out to us from from other countries as well for for mentorship and, and just guidance. I really love the way that you've turned, like, all of the energy that you would have been using on the floor because services, it's always high energy, and like you say, it doesn't just start when you get on the floor. There's all of the work to do beforehand. There's all the work to do afterwards, and you've really managed to channel that into all of this other stuff you're doing. I love how you've taken this kind of really sad moment of having to step away from the restaurant and made it into this huge positive and given yourself a massive workload. Oh, I felt like I had to. You know, being, a woman and a woman of color within our industry and and having been in this industry for a very long time and seeing an opportunity for me to speak with someone and touch someone and turn the situation around and not have people go through and have some of the experiences that I've had as a woman and as a woman of color. And they haven't all been horrible, you know, but they have not been easy. And some of the reasons that I put things on pause, so to speak, about studying and moving forward and moving ahead within things is because it was difficult. And I knew that it was not going to be easy because of those factors of being a woman and being a woman of color within our industry. And so any type of mentorship that I have ever done for anyone has been for all genders and all people, period because of not wanting folks to be put in a situation like myself. And so what this has allowed me to do, we have a saying in restaurants where it's touching every table and making sure that everything's alright with everybody. This is a way of me touching every table and making sure everything is alright with everybody. That's what this is. And that's how I think about it now. Yeah. You know, because it's it's needed. It it it it's it is, and it has been for, a long time. And it's something that's really very, encouraging Yeah. That's exactly. And and it should be about community, no matter who is part of your community. Like, wine is something that is convivial, it is to be shared. For me, it's about building memory and story with people, and that should be open to as many people as we can possibly make it open to. Yeah. So just one more thing, you know, to add to what I do, but it's it's really, exciting. And I am trying to be as open and as transparent as I can within all of this and, just enjoy what's what's happening and being open to what's happening. And and that's really important. It really is. And it's still all about wine, and it's about food, and that all still comes into play. You know? Because food and wine bring people together. Right? And I think people need to remember that and realize that because I don't think, a lot of people I don't think folks associate The two together with all of that, which is why I always say wine tasting is all sensory memory. It's whatever you have in that kaleidoscope or rolodex of memories. And that's how wine shows up. When you put your nose in the glass, you swirl and you smell, it activates everything that's there. And all sorts of things pop up. For some people, it's colors. For some people, it's, you know, a fruit smell, an earth organic smell. For some people, it's memory. For all, for some people, it's all of that. Right? So, yeah, I completely agree. It's interesting. I I love the way you talk about that. Like, the idea of that, yeah, it's not just about what you smell, but you might see colors and, like, I come from an architectural background, so I'm very spatial. So I see wines in a in a very spatial way. They they have a shape for me. And I was talking to Nadine Brown in a in an episode recently and about how tasting notes aren't necessarily always useful because you don't necessarily have the same cultural background as someone. They may not share the the sense memory that you have in order to describe wines and that actually what we should be doing is finding other ways to talk and communicate about wine. Finding a new language in order to describe wines, so not just with kind of fruit tasting notes, but also with describing wines with experience and relating them to experiences and stories. So I completely relate to that. I think that's how people relate to wine anyway, but I think that they don't say it because they think it's incorrect because that is not what we've been taught. And so for me, I've always thrown that out the window. And now I kind of I've always I've always kinda done my own thing. And, so now I'm I'm happy that everyone else's is speaking up and being vocal, about that because I've always written my own tasting notes, and I've always encouraged my staff and whomever I'm working with to do the same because my experience and their experience is not going to be the same. It's going to be something different. You know, just my my whole philosophy with running a program and running, the floor is is always very different. I will never bring something into the restaurant or put it on the list that is not going to be understood by those that are in the building and working on the floor and and and selling side by side with me. So I am a firm believer of giving someone something to reference. And so if you have never had that experience or never tasted that variety before our varietals within, that category, you don't know. You have no idea. And so it has always made more sense to me to present that to people first. Take the litmus test and see how it makes sense to them. And then how many people does it resonate with? How many people understand and get it? And understand where it falls within the wine program, everything that's coming out of the kitchen and doesn't resonate with them. If I don't have enough, you know, percentage of that, then that means I have to make the decision of, okay, am I gonna put it on and bring it on anyway and realize that it's going to be a hand cell and a favorite in that category for me. And over time, you realize and you figure out how many of those SKUs or categories, you know, can I have and be viable still for the life of the program, and of the blind list? So I did actually that's that's a perfect kind of tie in because I wanted to ask you a little bit about your list because, it does feature many wines by made by women, by colored winemakers, you know, and you don't mark this on your list, and you let the wines very much speak for themselves. And I wondered if this is also kind of a clever tactic because it allows you to speak to a customer or a client directly about the story of the wine rather than having them make an assumption based on, you know, like a note about the wine on the list. And It's interesting because having worked in the industry for so long, I have had all sorts of wine lists. I have had lists where there were categories. I've had one list that, you know, have descriptions of what's coming, you know, before you. And I think that over time, I realized that it's about what's in the bottle, not about who has produced or made it. And after having numerous conversations with winemakers of color, and female winemakers, I came to the conclusion of that. It's about what's in the bottle. And we don't want someone to have a bias when they're looking at the wine lists are trying to discover something to add to their experience. I would much rather add to that experience in a way that is going to be pleasurable and memorable because we are creating memories. We are creating memories. You know, that's what that's what wine does. And there's so much wine out there made by produced by so many fantastic and wonderful, people. But I also see it as a way to, get people into the mode of storytelling as well because every bottle of wine is a story in itself. It's that's what it is. And so and it's not meant to be a sales tactic or anything like that. It is what it is. It's it's a story and it's, a living, breathing, you know, organism. You know, I also see wine as art. Yeah. I was gonna ask you about that because the this is something I came across on your website that you talk about events that combine the two. So tell tell our listeners a little bit about that because I was super intrigued. So I I see the arts in food and wine as being relatable. And I and now, and it has become more prevalent. You will see sommeliers, wine blockers, and people associating wine with music. And they really do come together. And sometimes there is a wine that you will taste and smell and begin having that experience and a song or a piece of music will pop in your head. And it's the same thing with art. And I think it all has to do with what we call sensory memory. And that's how I came up with that idea. And then being a person that's has always been in the arts, myself, you know, it was very interesting for me and kinda crazy because, you know, I I did not start out as as being a person in the food and beverage industry. You know, I had thought for a very long time, as a young person, that I was going to be a lawyer. And that is kind of what I had myself and my family had me as as voices being within our family, you know, all of, you know, the private school education, all of it led to that. And I will never forget. I got my first restaurant job, during the summer right before I was going to start university. And that fall, And it was a French restaurant. My friends from the university, were working there, who I had also taken classes in high school at the university. And so they were older than myself. And, you know, their take was, you're gonna meet really fantastic people. It's gonna be a lot of fun. You'll be able to make some extra money, and it's just it'll be good for you. Right? And I go. I show up. I get hired. You know, unbeknownst to me. It was a French restaurant. The chef, was a female. She had been living in provence for the last ten years and had come back home. To Saint Louis, which is originally where I'm from in Missouri, and and opened this restaurant and her friends from all over the country, and all over the world that could come came to help her with this project over the summer and get it up and running and going. And that was the beginning of my restaurant life and and my experience. And I was very blessed to have someone there who saw something in me and and nurtured me. And that was my first mentor. Right? And I realized throughout all of this and the pandemic, that's exactly how that person showed up. He wasn't just about friendship that, you know, Matthew, mentored me. And he basically showed me the ropes, over the years about restaurant life and hospitality and serving. But the main thing was sitting down and having family meal at the end of the night and being able to listen to everyone that was at the table, you know, former chefs that were there and working, that had switched gears and come to the front of the house, and bar managers, bartenders, other people at the table that were servers that had been in the industry and that were professional wade staff and hearing their take on food and wine, and I was too young to drink, but I could sit there and listen and swirl a glass and smell. And I couldn't, you know, take a sip even because beautiful restaurant, big picture windows, and we're sitting right in front, Right? So I I couldn't even take a sip if I'd wanted to. Right? And that was my experience, you know, and and that was my training. And within just sitting listening and smelling and getting my take on things, you know, they realized that I had a palette. And from point on, whenever there was a dinner party, you know, a barbecue or whatever, I got invited and was shown food and wine. And that's how that started. And but I never thought of it as as a career for myself at all. You know, it was a lot of fun. Food and wine was fantastic when I finally turned twenty one and and could drink. You know, I had, you know, my my first bottle, of, you know, Lafie and my head was just turned. You know? And I just thought this is fantastic. This is delicious. And this is everything that I thought it would be. And I was just kinda off and running. But it was something for myself, but had never made the connection of you can do this as a living. You could be a sommelier because I was still in the mode of thinking in terms of being in the university and going to school and becoming a lawyer and to shift gears into art school, I had always, you know, been a painter and had gone to, art school on the weekends and been involved in the arts that way. We all were because it's something that my mom had us all in. You know, my sister and my brother will both dancers as well. And so, again, this was something that I loved, and so I was minoring in studio art. But I found myself spending more and more time in the studio in painting, and I would be there, you know, until two in the morning, painting. And so, the dean of the art department said, well, you know, you've got both of these things happening and going on, and you need to make, a decision about what you wanna do because this is really taking presidents over your life and your studies. And so another friend who was a restaurant friend as well said, you know, I really think we should take a trip to San Francisco. I think you would love it there. I think you would thrive there, and we should go and check it out. And so I started looking at schools, all over the country, and, CCAC, California College of Arts and Crafts made more sense. And so we took that trip, and she had already lived in San Francisco before I went for a long weekend. And It was cold. It was rainy. It was in January. And absolutely fell in love with the city. And there was this synergy and this connection immediately when I got off the plane. And I went back home and started making my plans and my provisions to move. Right? And, in the midst of all of this, I realized that I was not a resident. And so I would have to wait a year before I could could go, to the art school. And so I thought, well, you know, I've always been working in restaurants and and going to school as well. I can do that there and just do it full time until until we could go to school. So then it was researching. Okay. Where do I wanna work and and what makes sense? And and I did that. And, within the the food magazine for San Francisco Clinical had come out, friends sent it to me in the mail. And, you know, I read and looked at these beautiful photographs that have been taken of these these restaurants and and the food and just the hustle and bustle. And I thought, okay. And I made my list of places that I was going to reach out to and and drop off my resume. And one of those was Zuny Cafe. And I met, Sylvia Dar. It was the wine director. At that time, you know, I'd never met a female wine director. And, you know, Sylvia, super fantastic. And super charismatic. And I talked to her for an hour and a half that day. And the fact that she took the time to talk to me, it was a hot day. It was inventory, they were closed. I just happened to stumble in. Right? And she took one look at my resume, looked at me, and we just we had a conversation. And by the end of that conversation, She told me to come back the next day, told me what to wear and what to bring. And that was that. That was the beginning of me and my my Zooni family. And in the midst of that, I had been there probably three months. And was just focused on working and being there and absorbing, everything that that I could, I met people from Star's restaurant chef Jeremiah Tower, and I'll never forget. My roommate was working at Stars at the time, and she said they've seen you. And I was like, who's seen me? What are you talking about? Jeremiah and and Brian, and they they've they've all seen you and they really like you. And, you know, they come into the restaurant and you've take care of them, and they want you to come work at stars. And I was like, what? And she's like, yeah. And I said, well, I mean, I I guess I'll check it out. I mean, I really like working, you know, at Duoney. And so I went and stashed for a couple of days at, at Stars and really liked it. And, I said, but, you know, I really like both places. And may I work at both restaurants, which, you know, chefs are very territorial. And, and, they told me, yes. And so I did that for years as long as I could. Worked at both restaurants and two completely different experiences, but, and still, remember within all of this, I'm I'm learning, I'm loving it, but I still had not thought of this as something for myself and as a profession for myself. It wasn't until after I'd met Loretta Keller at Stars who left and opened her own restaurant at Bizzou. And I left Stars and went to go and work for her, And after a time of being there, she needed a summary and a wine director, and that's how that started. She just looked at me and said, I need help. You can do this. And I'm giving you the program. And I'm like, what? What? I mean, I just I've never, and she's like, it's fine. You can do it. You know, you're the first person. Everyone asked about any wine questions at all. Chances are, they ask you. You've already had it. You know the history behind the wine and all of that, you can do this. And that's how I got my first Samuel gig. And that is how that started. And I never looked back. It was really, really fantastic to to have people that saw something in you and and mentored you. If there was a piece or a part that you didn't understand, all you had to do was ask, and there was another person there to lift you up and elevate you and help you with that information. And that's how things were for me. And that is what I try to emulate within my own experiences with people. And people will come in and out of your life. Some will stay there. Some will be gone and and fleeting, but they leave that peace in that part that will forever resonate with you and and be with you, you know, for the entirety of your life and your career. I really love how you've taken, like, the the journey of the mentorship that you received and having recognized that and now being able to be at a point in your career where you can do that yourself just for so many people in so many ways, not just through obviously being on the floor and being in the restaurant, but also through wine unify, Batonage forum, like It's just such a beautiful synergy of the things you've experienced and the things that you're now giving to the industry. I'm just able to do it on a larger scale now, you know, and remembering that it's all in bite sized peep pieces. You know, it it doesn't have to be this long, long drawn out thing. It could be having a conversation with someone five minutes, cup of coffee, cup of tea, a glass of wine, a bottle of wine. And within, you know, that interaction that resonates with someone and that's helped someone. That is mentorship. Yeah. You never know what impact that five minutes might have on someone's life and how they view the industry and how they see their place in it. And that has been to ship to me. And I and that's how it shows up. And that's my philosophy. And that's That's how I do things. And I bring that's what I bring to the table. You know, that's that's how I'm into it. And the door is always open. People can come back at any time and ask questions. Now Tanya, it's just been such an amazing conversation and to hear you talk about what you're doing and and the story of how you came to it. We haven't got too much time. I'm afraid, I'm gonna have to wrap up. The producers are gonna kill me. But, I've just been so loving listening to you, share your story. It's just it's so inspiring. But before you go, this is the Italian wine podcast, which means I have to ask you about Italian wine. So I wondered, like, one of the things I like to ask guests is maybe outside of the kind of more traditional, quote, unquote, obvious Italian choices on your list. What would you recommend a client who may be wants to explore Italian wine further but doesn't know where to go. Like, do you have something that's like on your list or in in the back of your mind where they come to you and say, I want an Italian wine, but I don't know what I want. Where do you go? I'll For me, when I think about, Italian wine and my journey with Italian wine, I I always go back to dry, waxy white wines, and dry, fresh crunchy red wines. And so And everything, it it's full circle because I started I started in Toskana for White wine, and one of my favorites is still the Orinaya, Pagio Anagase, which I absolutely love. And so when I think of white wine for people, I am I use that kind of that analogy as my gateway drug to Italian white wine because it's not what people expect. At all. And then when I start to think of of red wines, I circle back and I go back to Sicily because very early on, twenty years ago, what we would see coming out of, of Sicily was super, super inexpensive but very exciting. And it's still super exciting. And the price point, is not crazy. And Tarrasse has always been one of my loves, and that's where I go back to, Avianico. And it's still very much under the radar. And so if I would tell anyone anything, it's to look for reds, look for Alianico, and you're going to be pleasantly surprised because there's so many arrays and hues and textures and flavors and colors. It's just it's really fantastic. Desperate for a glass now. I recent oh, my god. And I and in our closing, it goes directly back to memory. I was out with friends recently, and someone brought up a bottle of Taurasi. And it was a two thousand ten. Was ten years old, and I started to smell, and I started to taste, and I started to cry. And but they were not sat here. They were tears of joy because of the memories that were attached to that that region in that bottle. You know? And, Yeah. Another another time, we will talk about my Italian wine journey in the beginning of my career. Because that yeah. That's that's another podcast. Let's get that in the diary so that we can do a bit more of a deep dive. And I definitely wanna explore more with you this this discussion about wine and memory because it's exactly how I view it, and I think so many people view wine, but it's hasn't been talked about enough. As a way of approaching wine? No. It hasn't. I think because people have always thought that it's incorrect or improper when it is proper and it is it is wine and it is life. And wine is life. Exactly. Tanya Pitts, thank you so much for joining me on the Italian wine podcast. This has been such a great conversation. Where can our listeners find you online or on social media? On Instagram, IG, I am noir, Samoye. And, if it you'll see it says Dame Tania Pitts. That is because I am also a part of Ladane Descoffier, international, food. Yeah. The food and, and beverage society global. And so that is that. And that happened, as well during all of this. So it's it's been super fantastic. All of it has been the silver lining out of, something that has not been great, something that's been very devastating for a lot of people. But that's my silver lining. And I wanna continue to give people their silver lining. I have no I have no doubt of that from our conversation. Thank you again. Thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to follow us on social media, subscribe, and of course donate on the website so that we can make sure that these great conversations keep flowing, Tanya. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Rebecca. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe cribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, she Chim.