Ep. 571 Jahde Marley | Voices

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Rebecca Lawrence, and this is voices. In this set of interviews, I will be focusing on issues of inclusion diversity and allyship through intimate conversations with wine industry professionals from all over the globe. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps us cover equipment, production and publication costs, and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast with me at Rebecca Lawrence. Today, I am super excited to introduce our listeners to Jado Marley, a person who probably isn't aware of it, maybe is, but who has been instrumental and inspirational in my own Italian wine journey. So perfect for the podcast. So welcome Jado. Thank you, Rebecca. Thank you for having me. So maybe you could give the listeners a little intro to, like, who you are, what you do before we dive into, not just your Italian wine journey, but all of the other amazing things you've been doing since we met in Barona. Oh, yeah. My name is Jarde Marley. I am a wine and spirit specialist. I really concentrate in natural wine and Caribbean rum. I do a lot of community activation by way of the Hugh Society, Ideal bartender, collective and industry such which just really serves to provide a platform and community and confidence, and not only up and coming wine professionals, but those of us who, exist in this industry who haven't always had you know, that outlet of community or a larger support system. So that's been really exciting. Also, a champion of flavor, all thanks spice. I love my Caribbean food. I love food and wine pairing. Really is one of the reasons why I love Italian wine. There is just a flavor for every day, different regions, different grapes, terroir expressions, and it's just like a playground for me. Yeah. So to tell a listeners, like, wanted to start with the Italian wine because that's the the obvious. It's the Italian wine podcast, but also it's kind of our initial connection because for I was fortunate enough to sit next to you a couple of years ago when I gave my first attempt for Italian wine Ambassador but I definitely I mean, I was so lucky to have you just by chance sitting next to me. I couldn't have got through it. Not simply because, I mean, your study tip of write everything down was amazing. Seems obvious, but probably wasn't to me at the time. But also, like, the passion and commitment you have for Italian wine. So how did you come to Italian wine in in particular? Cool. Yeah. So first, we have to thank Michelle Erlin, for that write everything down thing. She also has gone through the Van Italy International Academy, a couple of times and brought me along, and that was the first thing she said. She's like, so much knowledge. There's not a rubric of what's gonna be on the test. Just write it down, ask later. So, big up to her. But I, I bartended for years and years, and I really tried hard to get into the craft cocktail scene. Again, I just I love flavor, and I wanted to play an experiment. And I had a really hard time landing a job that I thought was prestige, that I thought, could really grant me access into these spaces that I wanted to be in. And I I tried that for a few years. And then two thousand fifteen, you know, right after the big Psalm push, you know. And all of a sudden, my eyes opened up to, oh, you know, I always knew about sommeliers. I knew that there was a wine industry. I didn't realize the empowerment that a certification could give you. So I enrolled in a culinary school program, ICC, oh, with Scott Carney, and I, I took a program to essentially train me to pass the CMS level two certified exam. And which is funny because they do almost no Italian wine education. But about a week after I got my certification, I landed a job at a place called Lamiko. It was a new restaurant opening on sixth Avenue in Manhattan in the Aventy Hotel. Gentleman by the name of Percy Rodriguez was the, beverage director, and he hired me. And I spent three years there. It was an exclusively indigenous, parietal Italian wine list. Like, I still have one of the first books that we had. It was, like, three pages. We had, like, five barollos. And by the time I left, it was, like, this twenty five page Italian wine bible with, like, thirty different barolo. It was beautiful. And while I was there, I got the opportunity to travel to Italy, quite a few times. And, you know, through my friend, Michelle, who I actually, went to ICC with, she put me on to the Van Italy studies. So I went over to San Francisco where I got my ambassador certification And then I wound up going back out to Verona. I just wanted to experience Italy within that community. That's where I met you. It was a really beautiful enriching time. Again, I love this idea of regionality. I thought I was gonna go up to Piedmont and just chase down all of the barolo, all of the Bardresco. I went up there and wound up finding these really delicate, beautiful, fizzy red wines. And I spent two and a half weeks just going through the longue and going through these hills and meeting all of these sparkling expressions that still haven't found here. And that blew my head open even more to, like, the regional specificity and just the pride of the people and the knowledge that people have of their own products within Italy has been so inspiring to me. And it's actually really kicked off the way that I approach Caribbean food and beverage, which is that, like, it's not a monolith. If you take the time to listen to the people who are cooking the food, to the people who are working in agriculture, they can tell you what the differences are. And we should be respective of that. And there's also a lot of empowerment, that comes along with it. I think that you know, when we were, in class, we heard stories of these micro Malvasias and mosquitoes that brought tourism and industry into these little tiny pockets, and that was just so inspiring to me. So it's been Italian wine. Like, I get a little far away from it, and then I I come right back. It's just it's my it's my standard. It's it's at the center of my heart when it comes to wine. So, yeah, Italian wine arguably is at the center of everything for me. Yeah. I mean, me too. And and I remember watching your Instagram of that trip to Piamonte, and and that exploration of the the red sparklings, which wasn't really something that I'd done at the time and began to really change my mind. And like you say, there's there's so much out there and giving people this, like, pride and this connection to the product that is right in their land. Like, like you say that regionality, that specificity is something that is, yeah, exactly what I'm chasing for in in the Italian wines and is so important. I wanna I do wanna come back and ask you about natural wine, but you mentioned education, and obviously this is the perfect point to talk about it because you're an educator yourself. You've certified in different ways, but you're also one of the things I love about what you've been doing is that you're an advocate for everyone finding their own way in the industry, like, not necessarily just chasing the certification, but also not, you know, there's been a lot of backlash recently, but not just throwing the certification out because there's the recognition, the status of prestige, and like you said, the access. So I wondered if you could talk a little bit about some of the things you've been involved in in terms of new forms of education, new communities, and access. Yeah. For sure. I I do feel that there is a space for certification still. I'm a very, I love science. I'm a very technical learner. I need books, and I need some guidance in order for something to really sink in. Just because I'm such an expansive thinker, I will get hung up on little details if something is just poking out and doesn't make sense. Right? I also just wanna mention, and and this is something that I've I've just now started to think about. We have people with different kinds of learning abilities and different kind of learning blocks. And we have to be, respective of that as well. Not everybody learns the same way. And structured learning really can deal with that. Now that being said, it's the same thing in any educational system where it's, if you're not careful, they will sterilize you. They will, beat your opinions out of you in order to fit you into a box. And really, that's their job. They're standardizing. Right? And so it's what they're going to be doing. And when you are somebody who is either, hyper creative or coming from a background that's not necessarily a Venice background, sometimes you don't know any better. But then to feel like you have to conform. And a lot of the other organizations that I currently am aligned with is about, taking away that notion of conformity and really allowing people to come to the table as they are more knowledge and more perspective, adds more color, adds, it it just adds more perspective, and, we're in food and wine. I mean, the more palettes we have at the table, the better it is for everybody, industry wide, So that being said, there's a couple of, organizations that I know I mentioned in the intro. Industry sessions is a natural wine study, for bipoc, black and indigenous, and people of color. So that's just been huge. We have winemakers come through. We have really big wine educators and names come through and really bring them into our community, which seems to be enriching on both ends. And it goes way beyond the sessions. We're all in a constant communication. There's trips that have been planned. And just a real network of like, hey, if you need something, whether it's just an ear or some resource, shout out to Eureka. She is just like a mantle and is just there at the center of this web just networking and blasting people out. It's beautiful. I'm also involved in the Hugh Society, which was founded by, Tahira Habibi years and years ago. She's been doing some serious work for years. And from what I understand, it really started as a way to connect consumers with black winemakers. I shouldn't even just say consumers. Consumers in the sense that, like, we drink wine, not necessarily, you know, not industry. And she she's had this plan the whole time where she's going to grow it into something that is an educational hub, but one that is centered on the black experience using our language, using our culture as kind of the platform, and then reaching and bringing these other things in. So that's really been great. And something that I always say is if you are especially coming from some of these, communities that are not, steeped within Venice culture. I think it's important if you're going through a standardized education system to also have a community that you can come back to. That you can bounce some things off and that you just feel comfortable expressing alternative views. So that's been really, really important to me. And also, you know, because I I am equally passionate about Caribbean rum. My father is from Jamaica, and I I'd feel an incredible amount of ownership over that space is the ideal bartender collective, with my partner Kegan Joseph and my friend, Calvin Uphrey, also all of on Caribbean descent, where we essentially, you know, we're fighting to be the, the authority on our own products the same way that, you know, you go to Italy and you have these folks who may be farmers from a specific region, but you are not gonna argue with them about what's on their land. It was such a source of exploration. So that really there's a major connection there. That's really cool. I'd never thought about that connection, but, yeah, that's really awesome. I should mention for listeners, we have to hear a heavybie coming up as a guest I'm speaking with her next week about Key Society because I've been incredibly inspired by, like you say, the work she's been doing for years about this idea of, like, not having to conform to a system that's already in place, not having to bend to their structure, of a certification course and what it might expect to you, like, coming with your own thoughts, your own ideas, and also your own background. You know, like we all have a different background, and it's all equally valid to our experiences. And the work she's been doing about representation is just, yeah, like yourself, like it's just so important. And I've been super excited by it. And, the industry sessions as well for listeners, please check out their Instagram because it's super useful for anyone in the industry to just help educate and re educate yourself. Like, for me as an educator, that's been really vital for me about how I approach my sessions. And I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about food and wine pairing, which is something I really struggle with in myself as a teacher, particularly as a teacher working within the confines of WSUT, has been a little bit infuriating about the narrow scope of how we explore flavor, and the western background that comes from and the very limited and background that that comes from, and we'll we'll get to that. Definitely, because I really wanna talk to you about that. First, let's talk a little bit about natural wine, because I know you're a huge advocate, and you have a new role with knit wine, I believe. So tell us about it. Yes. Yes. It's great. We're all about decentralizing power around here. And shout out again to Tahira and Euryca. They they they get all this access, and then they just disperse it and spread it, and it's beautiful. And with knit wine, we're essentially doing the same thing as a cooperative distribution platform. When you're dealing with importers who are so focused and community oriented, namely in these really, often overlooked regions of Greece, Lebanon, Palestine, central Europe, and we also have some Italian importers as well. It it can become a little, difficult to grow because it's like how many Greek wines can you stock on one shelf before they're like, hey, guys, Greece is can't take up three quarters of my shop. So by kind of banding together, we're helping each other grow because we can meet minimums together. We share a rep, but we are allowing each book to really maintain autonomy. I think something that's really happened is we're seeing some of these importers who their names are becoming bigger than the wineries that they represent. And sometimes this can cause some issues because when you're trying to keep up with the Joneses and really hold up your own brand, you might overlook some things at wineries that you previously, would not overlook, or maybe you just don't know because there's too many things going on. I'm not saying it happens on purpose. It's just it happens. So this is kind of a way to not only applaud proper sourcing, but also to encourage it. So that's really exciting. And the two Italian wine importers that I'm working with are, hootenanny, which is Summer Wolf. And the Maritime Republic, which is Chris Leo. And, he's really, concentrating on central Italy. So a real class in La Marque, Laicio, and Calabrio, which is awesome because as you know, we don't really speak about Central Italy, you know. So this is just great. I love my teammates. I love the company. It's really feeling like my world of serving community and just my passion that I have with wine and spirits are really coming together through that platform. And I should also mention that using this platform, I'm going to be, curating a an American wine book called by the hand, and we're pretty excited about that. That'll launch releases. Super exciting. I I don't know how to keep up with you because we're just doing so much stuff. So let's talk about the the food, because as you said you started in kitchens, I believe you started as a prep cook. Obviously, you did culinary courses, And, obviously, your Jamaican heritage has been a huge influence on you. So how how have you managed to weave this all together? Talk to us about about food and wine and flavor. Yeah. Cool. So I was a prep cook when I was like sixteen. But as soon as I was able to waitress, I was in front of house because, oh my god, back a house, bless you. You guys, you do the work. But I've just always been around food. I've just always loved food. I grew up, you know, there was, like, fifteen containers in the, in the fridge and throughout the week. You just you pair them. You scoop. My mother is Jewish and my father is Jamaican. Both of those cultures are really food centric. You know? So even just the experience of putting those two things together, really expanded my palate, honestly. But as I was waitressing and as I was bartending, you know, I did that for the first ten years of my career, I was always in the kitchen. I was always kicking it with the guys on the line. I was always asking and watching and smelling. And without realizing it, really developing my palette. So when I when I got into wine and, like, that was part of my job, like, wait a second. I'm supposed to, like, wait. This is what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, flavor. That's it. I just leaned all the way into it, you know. And honestly, for a very long time, my culture and my job, both very important to me lived in in separate parts. And once I started with the food pairing, it's like everything just came together. And it's why I'm such an advocate for food pairing. Not everybody comes from a wine background. Everybody comes from some kind of food culture. We all eat. So if you're able to meet people where they're at with food, the wine just naturally comes. So even when I was a Psalm at a restaurant, you know, I would ask the staff, what do you eat? What do let's pick a dish And then let's see what line would pair with that based on structure based on weight based on whether you want it to be complementary. And let's go from there. So to me, food should be at the at the base. And then we grow with wine. I think it's part of our jobs as wine professionals is to, kind of diversify our own point of reference on food. We're not only serving European folks. I mean, there's a big old world out there. And for the wine industry to grow, we have to embrace more people. That's just it's it's better for all of us. So I should draw a listen's attention because you've been doing a series on Instagram called Black Food Folks. So what what is it? So it's great. Black Foodfolks, started about a year, before shut down, as an in person gathering of black folks and food. Cause again, I mean, we all need community. Right? We all, we all like to chat in exchange with people who we don't have to give a preamble to that just kinda get it it's it says a lot. And after the pandemic hit, you know, they their online presence kind of picked up, but really ultimately after the murder of George Floyd, there was this massive kind of influx of followers. I remember it went from them having something like ten thousand followers to, like, two days later. They were up in the thirty or forty thousand followers. Now that's not to say that this so much influenced the work that black food folks was doing. I think something that's really special about black food folks is what they do is for the community. All of these outside eyes very much welcome, but it's not at the center of what they do. So through through the the pandemic, and and the platform and growing, they launched a series of talks. And they were really it's I found a lot of comfort and a lot of camaraderie in the earlier talks. And I was on with Jackie Summers, who was doing, a spirit centric, or I should say a Ben centric happy hour. And it was great. And I bumped into Clay, hunky Dory in Brooklyn, and he was like, hey. Wanna do some wine? I'm like, yeah, I wanna do some wine. I have so many friends. So essentially, all that I really do is I spend an hour with people that I love, you know, actually all black women. And we speak about wine. We speak about our passion. We speak about our food. We speak about their work. Hopes for the industry. And it's really a hub of joy. And I think all of us within the wine and spirit space, if we weren't crazy passionate about this, we would not be doing it because it's kind of crazy the things that we do for the amount of money that we get paid, and the amount of hours that we put in. But it's so nice to exchange in that joy space and not only speak about the ills and the, the difficulties and the trauma. So that's really where that where that stems from. And we have such knowledgeable, and capable people in our community. It's really important that we give folks the space to speak about what brings them joy and what makes them happy and not just ask them about, like, what we wanna color our articles with by way of, like, what we think people wanna hear. So Black Food folks is is amazing. Shout out to Colleen and Clay. Yeah. So great. I I love the idea of it as a hub of joy because If you think about, like, the spaces where people come together around the dinner table with food and wine, is where the best conversations happen. It's where, like, the community really does come together in so many cultures I, you know, I can't think of a culture where that isn't the case. So it's so nice to have, like you say, this positive space that just combines those two things. So let's we've got to talk rum because I know this is the Italian wine podcast, but I love spirits and actually the the spirits section of my diploma was my favorite. Everyone else hated it. I loved it, but you've been doing some really important work in Rome because it's a problematic topic because of its connections to colonialism, and this has been something that has really until the work of people like yourself has has kind of been largely ignored in in the industry. So what's your advice for for our listeners who are interested in, inspiration, and rum, in particular, about how to educate them whilst also managing to support the industry in a positive way? Well, I think I think that re wine people are perfect for kind of opening the aperture of rum because we do these things anyway, which is recognize that the juice in the bottle is just one part, and it is the final part of what happens, and nothing happens in a vacuum. The juice doesn't just, magically appear in the bottle. There's a lot of history associated with it. There's a lot of politics that surround these things, whether it be agriculture based or otherwise migration would have you labor. And it's really important, especially when we speak about a region that has been so colonized to look at the history of the places that these these rums are coming from. You know, we speak. We know about the triangular tree. We know about the transatlantic tree, but if if we stop thinking about it, it's just like this thing that magically ended, and we recognize that there are threads that that you know, our our continuous that we can place right back at that time. It kind of opens your eyes to saying, wait, wait a second, but who has been held accountable in what ways have they been held accountable? I'm not somebody that necessarily believes in cancel culture. Do believe in calling people in, and I do believe in asking for change behavior. And I do believe in saying, okay, the harm has been done. So, like, now how do you repay those people who the harm has been done to? Each Island has their own significant terroir and their own expressions. No doubt, but there were major players that affected all three of these islands. And I'm not just talking about mother countries. I'm speaking about let's speak about the Dutch East India company. I mean, you think that they magically went away. They didn't. So, I mean, as far as educating yourself on Ram, I would say stop just concentrating on the realm and look at the sociopolitics, that surround the Jews and stop saying that it's no politics. That's impossible. It's impossible. At the end of the day, especially when you're in a region like this, everything leads back to politics. And for somebody to say, just rum, no politics, you are erasing an entire period, and you are currently in racing an entire people. And that's an immense amount of privilege. And something that just has been very frustrating to me is that when it's easy, the rum community is very much decolonize this. Reparations for that. Let's have these distiller partners. But when it comes to pen and paper and when it comes to actually shelling out some money and when it comes to doing the work, it's it comes back real quick. So those are just I I love I love from. Those are just some of my, frustrations. But as consumers, you know, I I think it it can be very intimidating because we want to do good. And I think the way to really do that again is just to dive into some of those history books and see how some of these systems are still very much alive and well today. And as we're talking about decolonizing, just define what that means. And it's all connected. Like you say, you you can't take it's not just you can't take the politics out of it because politics is people and any agricultural product, I mean, any product anywhere, but any particularly agricultural product is connected to people in some way, and it's really important to recognize those people and the history they've come from and the history that is continuing and perpetuating. So, yeah, I've been I really enjoyed your articles about it and your pieces about it. So I do invite people to, like, think about when they're drinking the juice to think about the people, and that's spirits, that's wine, that's coffee, that's tea, that's all of those things. I I also think it's important to bring up, especially, yes, coffee, yes, tea, but also certifications certifications are great, but it is very European. And there is an issue when you take certifications that are based upon European politics and also terroir and also development and bring those same certifications, even if they're not official, but the standard of it in too foreign countries, we have to be really careful that we are not preventing folks from developing, especially in the natural wine category, where we love handpicked, where we love the idea of not using machinery. That's great if it's a choice. It's not cool if you are just cornering somebody and saying your product is less than if you use some of these more, technological advancements. So It's it's a really it's a really big conversation, and I think going back to education, there's, for me, particularly in the bigger certifications, a huge amount of work to be done in in bringing that history, in bringing the cultural backgrounds into the education, into the classroom to demonstrate that, you know, these these big bodies are aware of it and the problems. And just, you know, we're never gonna solve it in one classroom session, but make your students aware of it tell them to go and look it up, look in the history books, look for people who are explaining why things might be problematic, and what are the other things we should consider? I think that's really important for educators to be aware of, like, you you can't fix it in one session, but you can start fixing it in one session. We plant seeds. My friend's lawn says it perfectly, which is you put a little bit of sugar on the spoon. And then if it's sweet, they called out sweet, they're gonna go out and they're gonna find some more. There's a lot of information out there. We can't teach everything, but we can trust that if we plant the seeds, that folks are gonna go out and do a little bit more of their own, you know, farming and tilling. So For me as an educator, it's it's very much being aware of maybe my own blind spots, my own my own failings in in gaps in knowledge, and and trying constantly to reach out to people and go, how how can I do this better? Like, how can I help represent my industry in a in a more positive way and in a more inclusive way? And I recommend all educators and all industry professionals and just generally people to to recognize that in ourselves and say, you know what? I'm still learning. It's a journey. Like, Mhmm. I've got some work to do. And sometimes and sometimes our teachers are our students. I that's, like, the biggest thing that I've taken away from industry sessions is like if you take the supremacy out of education and we look at it more of an exchange, There is a lot to be had on both ends. And I think that sometimes in wine, we feel so pressured to know everything and to kind of speak down that we miss the opportunity to level with people and also to enrich our own, basic knowledge. And actually that that brings me perfectly back to the food and wine pairing, which is where I wanna finish because that's one of the greatest things that I have learned from being with students is being with students with different cultural backgrounds where I asked them for a for a food and wine pairing, and they give me something I'd never even considered. And it's like, that's awesome. Explain to me why it works. Like, this is brilliant. So obviously, I can't let you go without asking maybe for a favorite Jamaican dish that we should try with an Italian wine. I I know there's not just wine. I'm sure. So I'm actually huge on condiment pairing, and I think it's because, you know, I don't eat meat. I've been a pescatarian since I'm fifteen. I don't know. And I like to spice up vegetables. I like to spice up my fish. So something that I've been really crazy about, we have a sauce, in the Caribbean. It's it's a browning sauce, which essentially is just a cook down sugar with some spice and some people put, like, some soy sauce in it, but it it can get these really intense, like umami flavors. We put all types of stuff in it. They're, you know, brown stewed pork, brown stewed chicken, brown stewed fish. What have you? Negro amaro, with anything that is brown stewed is just it sets it off. You know, Negro morrow is all about that tart sour flavor. It sets off the sweetness in this beautiful way. It has enough weight and it's plush enough to kind of, has enough fruit I should say to push off some of those or complement those spicier notes. And it just I I love Nick O' marrow. So that would be, one, I'd say the other thing to do. And, this is something that is not, original to me, but a lot of, Jamaican wine professionals that I know, like to shout out, Aki, along with a buttery chardonnay. You could think of Aki as, somewhere between, like, avocado and maybe it looks like eggs. It really looks like scrambled eggs, and the consistency is not far off, but it has this really buttery texture, the national dish of Jamaica is aki and selfish and pair that with a nice I wouldn't say an, a butter bomb, but something that has some presence of mallow. The texture just plays together so well. And it's just like, yeah, a whole lot of round slickness going on. So those are my tips. Sounds great. I I haven't had anything in a in a in a brown sauce, but, I've recently got into tonkatsu sauce from Japan, which I assume has some similarities in sense of that umami, that spicy sweetness, and Now I'm desperate for a Negropower to go with my next, tonkatsu sauce. I I actually had this tempeh bond me the other day along with a Negro tomorrow. And I was just like, you know, this just doesn't ever fail. And there's something to be said of that. There's a lot of, there are a lot of Chinese Jamaicans, southeast and eastern, Asian Jamaicans, and the flavors definitely come over along with migration, and totally there are parallel is going on all over. I'm hungry. I don't know which I'm more. Like, Johnny, thank you so much for joining me on the Italian wine podcast. Where can our listeners find you online on social media so they can go and hand out what you're doing? So I'm only active on Instagram because I cannot I can't be everywhere. It just takes too much. Jade marley dot drinks is where you can find me. You can also check out my website, jade marley dot com. I do a lot. I'm ever evolving. I don't really wanna, define myself, but I'm sure that if you check-in, something cool will be going on. So I have of that, I have no doubt. We'll put links to that when the episode goes out. Thank you everyone for listening. Don't forget to follow us on social media, subscribe, and of course donate on the website to make sure we can keep these great conversations flowing. Listen to the Italian one podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment and publication costs. Until next time.