Ep. 581 Tsatsu Gbedemah | Voices

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Rebecca Lawrence, and this is voices. In this set of interviews, I will be focusing on issues of inclusion diversity and allyship through intimate conversations with wine industry professionals from all over the globe. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps us cover equipment, production and publication costs, and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome to the Italian Wine Podcast with me Rebecca Lawrence. Today, the voices series is super excited to meet someone who is a Director of Joy. We're here with Chatur Bhedema, the director of Joy for the new wine marketplace company, wine and peace. Welcome to the podcast Chatur. I'm so happy you're here. Hi, Rebecca. Thanks for having me. So before we dive into the work that Wine and Peace are doing, which will be kind of the heart of the podcast today, I like our listeners to know a little bit about you first. So maybe you could give us a bit of background about who you are and how you came to find yourself working in the wine industry? Definitely. Yeah. So I'm in Chatham, where I lived there for about five years. And then I moved to Kenya where I lived there for about another five years. And I've been in Montreal living here for the past, fourteen years, essentially, going on, I guess, fifteen since two thousand and seven. And, and, I'm currently I'm literally about to submit my final a project tomorrow for my hospitality degree that I'm finishing here in Montreal. Wow. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that we took you away from your studies, but maybe maybe we're a welcome distraction. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. So this is a super exciting time for you. Yeah. It is. It's I am about to finish this specific degree, and, I have this job with winding Peace, which we'll get into, which is really exciting. And it's been a long two years. It's been interesting, and that's how I got into the wine industry. Yeah. So you mentioned, obviously, wine and peace, which is what we're gonna talk about today. So maybe you can tell our listeners what the company do and and where did the idea for it come from? Definitely. So Wine and Peace was founded by Katie and Stan Decker. And, essentially, we're an it's an online wine marketplace slash marketing platform. And what we do is we source really good wine, handmade wine, responsibly handmade wine from producers in America. And how the how the idea came about was, the co founder, Sam, and Katie had a restaurant that they owned, in Mexico. And while while there, all of Sam had an have had an affinity for wine from a young age. He really developed, I guess, knowing a lot more about wine there because a lot of the wine producers in Mexico would come to the restaurant. And so that that was done, and they moved back to March of this vineyard where they originally from. And Sam was work I was the wine director at a restaurant in Marchsylvania called Atria, and, Katie had gone back to school and should bring a fulfilled psychology degree. And so it's Sam in the restaurant and also doing pursuing his So it's good, for the quarter, master somalia, and Katie was in school for social psychology, and she was doing these taking a lot of social justice classes. I guess the the sort of perfect thing happened where while Sam was was studying for the Cortimaggi Smollett, he he found it to be a little bit insular, and, you know, a lot of the focus was on just this very, I don't know, this grandiose thing about wine, and it was very, like, exclusive and not very inclusive. And Katie was doing a lot of social justice classes. And so she basically had told Sam that she she would wonder, you know, why are we why are you pursuing this, like, crazy, complex thing about wine and that it shouldn't wine just be a bit more accessible and more fun. And so they joined for forces and brought about wine and peace, which is originally, wine education company. And it is and it is involved into what it is now, which is an online white marketplace highlighting, amazing American white producers, and that have a lot more context, a lot more stories, and just a lot more beautiful in my opinion. I have to say you're totally right about a lot more beautiful. I'm sure you're right about the stories as well, and obviously we'll get to that. But one of the things that really strikes you when you first go on the site is that it does look approachable and accessible. It's modern. It really does look like somewhere where you wanna go to learn more about wine because it's just, yeah, it looks really joyful. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. And that's what attracted me to it. So how I got involved with wine and cheese because I was working at a pizza place here in Montreal. And this lady walks in with a baby stroller, and she has this very I don't know how to describe it, but it was this sort of like very bright pink, cocoon that her baby was in because we have, like, very harsh winters here in Montreal in December when I first met her. And so right away, when she spoke to me, I knew she wasn't from from Montreal just from her accident. And I was and it it was genuinely just curiosity that, you know, I guess brought me to her, and I was asking her, like, where she was from. And she says she was from Martha's vineyard. And I asked why she was in Montreal, and she told me that she had come here with us when she start to meet a design company here in Montreal, and they followed with the city after, like, three days meeting here, and they signed a lease and and they've been here for two years, but Wow. That's so awesome. So how did you come to how did you come to make the leap from from the pizza place to director of joy at wine and peace? Like, connect the dots for me. Yeah. Definitely. So she came into the pizza place, and we just really connected. I was generally really curious about what she wants and what she was from. And although, like, sometimes my career often has gotten me into trouble, I think it did in this time, which I'm really grateful about. And so she told me that she has this company, and then I checked it out. And I think, like, you, I have the same the same experience. I was like, wow, this is a really cool company. The design is amazing. It seems really welcoming, and it just seems like, somewhere I wanna work at. And then so I looked more into it, and then I even texted one of my best friends, Sierra, and and I said, like, and I told her, hey, I I discovered this company. This lady came in to pizza, Tony, and I wanna work there, but I don't even know what I'm going to do, but I definitely wanna work there. And so fast for a few days, I met her again at the pizza place, and then we really connected in speaking about hospitality and Danny Meyer, And, you know, this whole thing about hospitality. And she said, you know, it's hard to express hospitality with an online marketplace. And so that's when I said, oh, maybe that's that's how I can add to the company with my hospitality background. And sort of, help build the systems where it can make, you know, just, what you would receive a box essentially of wine to add that sense of hospitality and when, you know, sort of go to a shake shack and you feel like welcomed or you go to Starbucks, you know, and so that's how I came at that's how I came into working with Wayne Peace as director of Joy. I sent her an email saying, hey, these are some ideas that I have. And one thing led to the other, and here I am. That's amazing. I I love that idea of like finding something that you really like and just going for it. Like, that's so gutsy. It's brilliant. Yeah. And also this idea of, like, Yeah. Bring it being able to bring all of the, like, important skills and knowledge that you learn in hospitality to an online platform. Now it's kind of beginning to make sense to me now why the platform seems approachable and and has a little bit more to it than it's not just a wine marketplace. Like, it feels like a place that has been built with hospitality in mind with that kind of welcoming customer led approach. And I think that's really fascinating to hear that that was specifically something that that they were going for, that you guys are going for. Yeah. Exactly. Absolutely. And they really had that. They really mastered that, essentially. And I just came in at when all of that was essentially done. And I just was hoping to, like, provide the value that I can from the things that I've learned the past three years in the rest of the industry. So what is it specifically that your your role does Can you give us maybe a either a is there a typical day for a director of joy for a wine marketplace? Definitely. Yeah. So if you were to, I guess, maybe write that on a CV or on a LinkedIn profile, it might say directive customer experience. And so, essentially, I was I I helped build some of the customer experience. Systems that we have on the website. So, for example, if you want on the website now, we have live chat, and the idea behind that was having access to a phone when you're on the website, as you would like in, actual physical brick and mortar store, you know, so an online website, sometimes you don't really have, person that you could ask questions to. And so with the live chat, I I was hoping to, like, I am hoping to, like, fix that. And, people can come on when they're shopping for wine or they're trying trying to buy a wine and they're finding it hard. They can ask me a question. And by ask ask me a question, that means I text that right away and ask it. Hey, question, when you said that, and so on, because my knowledge of why it is so quiet, I guess, novice and Sam is an x-ray, I would say. That's a really lovely feature, though, because what are the real problems, I think, with particularly e commerce of something that is potentially very complex, like wine, where maybe there's terminology that someone doesn't understand. Maybe it it's a great variety that they haven't come across before. A producer, they don't know. It's really great because wine is also for many people an investment. You know, it's not every day that you buy, like, a nice bottle of sustainably sourced wine to have that opportunity for your customers to go, oh, I don't know anything about this. But it looks interesting, and then just be able to write and get some advice immediately. Like you say, you're you're taking that that brick and mortar kind of extra personal touch and making it accessible on mine, which particularly at the moment, obviously, with everything that's been happening in the world, giving that extra personal touch online is is so vital for for e commerce, I think. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, and so even, like, I sometimes call customers, then I get to find out that you know, they have their passion about photography or their avid runners and things like that and just sort of connect collecting all these little details about them that just breaks that sort of, I guess, computer wall that we were in, especially now with the pandemic and everything. And aside from that, there's a bunch of other things I do for wine fees, but that's essentially, I guess, my, a corporate objective, if you will. So, obviously, you're collaborating with producers, in order to put this platform together. So how many producers do you have collaborating with you at the moment? And and what are the plans for expansion? Definitely. So, currently, we have about twenty seven, twenty eight producers. I'm not quite sure. But it's around it's around that area. And, plans for expansion would probably be a better question for Sam and Katie. I mean, it would definitely would be cool to see this expand maybe through Italy like you have or or around the world, or maybe, well, Canada might be a bit difficult because laws are very insane with, alcohol. So we'll see. But, it will it will definitely be interesting to, like, have this sort of, concept in other countries. And and can you talk a little bit about, the selection process? Cause I was really excited to see on the website that you have this quote, what is blind tasting after all, if not a willful disregard for meaningful context? And I I really like this quote because I personally am very interested in, you know, knowing more about the wine through where it comes from and who's made it. So why why is context so important for wine and peace? Right. Thank you. Great question. So in terms of the selection process, I know that Sam had a sort of master being in the in the industry and dealing with so many different wine, winemakers and just people in the industry he had a sort of, I guess, maybe we could call a master list of the people he really admired in the wine industry and and wine that he generally just really liked. And so they this is essentially what we have on website right now with people that generally, like, They make amazing wines for a for a really great price. And, and and beyond that, they there's different things that they do that, you know, make them makes us want to sell their wine. You know, so if you go on our website, there's, five different values that we have, which is human, community, pioneer environment, and women. And so, essentially, all the winemakers on our website fit into these five different categories. And so to answer your question about blind tasting and the context that we we have aside from just that, you know, with blind tasting, I feel that it's this sort of, I don't know how to explain it, but It's if you if you don't get this note of, like, gooseberry or all these all these sort of different flavor profiles or these timing structures and all this, people might feel that you don't know why. But then we look at the winemakers on our website and, like, for example, AutoShine, they bring a, a medical truck, like, to their vineyard for their employees who, like, have a medical check up. And we have, also, like, the mathiasan, I believe. He just finds your threshold a little bit higher. So people don't have to, like, bend over and break their back to pick the the grade. And, then there's also, you know, people like Chase and Edward Charles was just a really nice person, you know. And so all these different winemakers sort of come on on our website because we want to, essentially sell sell line and provide line with more of a story to it. And, you know, and we saw that a lot with the whole, like, farm to table movement with Alice Waters, you know, and saying, you know, and with, industrialization of Wine, you know, a lot of a lot of the attention has been taken away from, you know, jewelry store, who the winemakers are, where are they from, you know, what are what's their name? What are the things that they do that just make the, that add to the, I guess, the entire ecosystem of the world, are they using regenerative farming practices, you know, do they treat their employees well, which is such a crazy concept, you know, and and things like that, you know. And so that's really how we, how I guess Sam and Katie chose the winemakers and, you know, as you're going along, we we get, some winemakers reach out to us. There's some winemakers that I know, like, Kat, who's a chief operating officer. She really, really loves. We also have Jill Davis who joined the team recently. And so and this is me. Maybe I'll, like, see on one because I have, like, and say, Hey, let's try and get their wine on the popcorn because they're a good human beings. I think that's fantastic. And definitely, Obviously, we've already seen this happening in the food industry, but to begin to see this more in the wine industry, and specifically to see a platform like wine and pieces dedicated to it. It's not like just an offset. It's not like a selection not, you know, you can click on the tab on the website and here's six Y makers. It's the entire reason behind the project. And I think it's also very interesting that for me, I've seen the the wine industry development. A lot of the new generation of drinkers, drinking less, but choosing in a much more targeted way, they they want the experience of the wine, they want to know where it comes from, they want to know if the working conditions are good, if the soil is organic, you know, all of these things, and I think that's been really important and in becoming increasingly important in the industry. So having a platform dedicated to it is beginning to fill that need for a new generation of wine drinkers. So I think that's fantastic. And And related to that, I wanted to ask about so you've got all this amazing stuff. How do you then make sure you communicate it and specifically communicate it to the people who wanna hear to you know, Jen's Ed millennials who are trying to make more of these choices. I'm not saying other generations aren't, but they are particularly the new wine drinkers are approaching wine I think in this way. Right. That's a really good question. And, you know, we're we we're doing this by just our website, you know, and our social medias and even ad campaigns that we run. But I think, like, the really important thing, and that's even another reason why I was really attracted to why it peaked with that. It just made it very simple. You know, and it wasn't all these, like, fancy terminology, all these fancy wording and just sort of, I guess, sort of, like, intellectual masturbation, you know, and it's Yeah. This it just made it very simple and accessible. And, you know, and we, like, we do Instagram live. I do Instagram live with Sam, and, you know, we get the white records on. Sometimes, like, I'll ask the question that I can understand, you know, and I try I definitely don't ask questions that I don't understand. And so I hope that's a way that other people who, like me, who are maybe new to one or very, like, experiencing one can bring all these, I guess, very complicated, complex subjects that make them very simple. And, you know, one of the next projects without giving too much away is we won't go more into video. And so with that, there'll be more wine education there, and just maybe, like, simplifying it. And and so there's there's a moment where I'll speak with Sam about a subject. And, you know, even, like, for example, like, coming up with ideas for the club houses that we have, you'll pitch these ideas, and I'll I'll say, like, I don't really understand that. And he he might say, oh, that's why we shouldn't do it because it's, like, just too complicated and we should just focus on the simpler thing that's more fun. And so that's that's ways that, I guess, we're communicating that to people. Yeah. I've particularly liked your Instagram lives because of that element of it. Just They are so approachable, and I think that's really important. And it and it completely ties in with, like you say, trying to be educational as well as a marketplace and trying to make it educational in a way that's approachable. Because as you say so much of wine education is not, and this is a real problem. And I think as well, it's there's a trope in the industry for people to surround themselves with other people with the same level of knowledge And so there's this assumption that everyone has that level of knowledge, or they're stupid. But actually, it's about, like you say, simplifying it, changing what the question is, and just sharing a passion for it so you demonstrate that it's not something scary, you know, you shouldn't feel stupid if you don't know something because we were all there at some point. Right. And it's just the start of everyone's mind journey. Exactly. Yeah. I also really liked on the website that you have, interviews with people about their wine buying habits. There's a really nice, article on the website that interviews a full range of people. And I think that's a really nice touch because it demonstrates that you've actually thought about, you know, how people's wine buying habits are different, and maybe that actually one of the things some people are going to be looking for that kind of like ten bucks bottle of wine, and some people are gonna be looking for something for a special occasion. And I thought that was a really nice touch on the website to have those more personalized stories and to take something like wine that can be, see maybe an e commerce that can seem a little impersonal and just add that personal touch. Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, when when you say when you speak about Wi Fi habits, there was a very long period of my life where I was buying wine bottles with, like, really cool label because I thought those were all the really those are all the best wines, and those are all the natural wines, quote, unquote, I'm probably gonna get a lot of flack for that. But that's just what I thought natural white was. You know, if you have a really cool, you know, indie label, then that's what it is. So but then as of, you know, guys know more about wine, I've discovered that, you know, it's not only that, but I also think, like, that's not that's not okay. You know, if if I'm going to buy a wine because I simply like the design of it, I think that's also okay, you know, or am I buying a wine because I'm eating this type of food, which is also okay. And I think, like, there's a lot of, there's there's been all the sort of, I guess, rules that have been made in wine, like, oh, you can't do this. You can't eat fish with red wine and blah blah blah blah blah. But I had a teacher in school and he said, listen. Typically, you eat fish with. You drink white wine with fish. He's like, but if the customer says that they want the red wine, you just give them the red wine, you know. And so I think I've gotten I've used that to, like, sort of I guess guiding me through my wine journey and just not, like, re not really subscribed to all these rules and all the, I guess, criteria that we need to have and just have more of an experience and just have more fun with this because wine can be really, really fun. Yeah. I mean, it's basically alcoholic grape juice. It should be fun. Exactly. Yeah. One of the things that, I often tell people who come to me who maybe don't know a lot about wine and ask me, like, oh, how do I choose. I'm in the store or I'm on the website, and there's so much information, and I don't know. I often say to them, well, like, if you don't know exactly what you're looking for and there's no one to ask, then buy it by the label. Because even if Even if particularly if you're buying for friends, if you've got a dinner party, you've got friends around, you know, even if the wine is terrible, you've got a story to tell because you chose it because of the label. And that's fun. Like, there's there's no right or wrong answer in that situation. It's like, oh, this word's terrible. You have a look how cool the label is. Like Yeah. Absolutely. I think throw out the rules. Absolutely. So we're running out of time, and I have to ask about Italian wine because this is the Italian wine podcast, and if I forget to ask why Italian wine producers kill me. So obviously you guys are focused on the American market at the moment, but given your background, and, you know, I've just learned that you were working in a pizza restaurant, so I'm assuming you've eaten a lot of pizza. Is there one Italian wine that particularly you have enjoyed? Or is there maybe a pizza pairing? That you you particularly enjoy from your time working with pizza. So, yeah, to answer your question, a couple of weeks ago, I had, Manayji live with Sam who were looking at, sparkling white. And so I bought this, Petnak. The great variety was the file in Gina, and the producer is Fattoria Dibayla. And, yeah, a really good, petnak that I had. I really, really enjoyed it. But I also wanna throw in that question back at you because I am learning about wine. I'm going through all these different grape varieties and all these different types of wine. What's the next wine from Italy you think I should have? If you're having pizza, you should have a lambrosco di sobarra. So sparkling red wine, but sobarra is the, like, lightest or more floral of it, and that with a margarita for me is just amazing because you've got the slightly kind of, like, creaminess of the cheese, with the fresh mozzarella, which goes really well with this acidity of the grape, slightly herbal. Yeah. I'm I'm a huge advocate for for sparkling red wine and pizza. That was a good variety again? It's Lambrusco Diso Bara, s o r b a r a. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. Chaciu Bellaman, thank you so much for joining me on the Italian web podcast today for taking time out of the final few days of your studying, where can our listeners find you and also wine and peace online and our social media? Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure talking to you. And, you can look you can go on our website, wine and peace dot com. We're on Instagram at drink wine and peace. My personal Instagram is at Chachoun, just p s a c s u. And, a lot of people are jealous that I have just been interested in my Instagram go. So I like to flex it once in a while. That's like the coolest. Yeah. I was gonna say that's a total flex. That's super cool. Yeah. Yeah. But those are places you can find me. Awesome. We'll make sure to tag you and wine and piece, when our social goes out, guys, go and check out the website and see what they're doing. It's really exciting to see, sustainable, socially justified wines being given a marketplace. Thanks to everyone for listening. Don't forget to follow us on social media, subscribe, and of course donate on the website to make sure we can keep these great conversations flowing. Listen to the Italian wine pot test wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Hemali FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.