Ep. 834 Phil Long | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and today I am welcoming Phil Long to the show. Fills the president of the Association of African American Vintners and the founder of longevity wines. Which is in Livermore Valley in Northern California. He started the company in two thousand and two in his garage with his late wife Deborah, and they grew the business together and opened their own facility in two thousand and eight. And now Phil is partnering with Bronco wine Company for facilities and national distribution across the USA. I'm so happy to have you here, Phil. Thanks for joining me. Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Whatever it is in, your part of the world. Thank you, Cynthia, so much for having me. I'm really happy to be here. Well, I am so excited to talk to you because I I love your story. Wine was definitely not your first career path. You have an architecture degree from Cal Pollian Pomona. And you said you weren't even aware that wine was a career path, and you thought wine was basically just made in France, which I can totally relate to because I grew up in the, in Ohio, in sort of the sixties and seventies, and I don't think I ever saw a bottle of wine. So how did you discover wine and get into the business? Yeah. That's totally, totally true. You know, the guys we called Agies back in college. They were the guys with cowboy hats and cowboy boots. It kinda had a little animal stitched to him. And I thought, wow, that's that's what you do with animals. But those are the guys that were growing grapes, and had no idea. Full circle, you know, going to cal poly pomona and earning my degree, now the university library is archiving its only graduates wine brand longevity, which is kinda interesting, which is, again, it's come full circle, but You know, the journey took, you know, as you grow up, you start sampling wine and enjoying wine, you have friends that have wine and invite you over. You know, Deborah and I just started to become more aware of it. But in Southern California, basically wine is just, it's a commodity. It's something you get at a restaurant or, you know, the grocery store and take home. When we relocated to Northern California, we realized that wine is part of the fabric of life here. You literally can't drive in any direction without ending up in wine country. And as we explored our surroundings, every weekend, we found ourself in wine country. And that interest, passion, lifestyle, it just grew on us. And we started making a little wine in the garage just for fun just as a just as a couple's hobby, and that's how it started. That sounds super fun. I I would love to make wine in the garage if I had a garage, not not a big going commodity in the area where I live just outside of Verona, and my husband always co ops every bit of extra outside space for his tools. So making wine in the garage sounds like a great way to get into the business to me. You know, if you have a bathtub, you can do it there too. I will keep that in mind, actually. All my kids I've gone away now, so the bathtub's all mine. I'm gonna I'm gonna take that one up, but I'm guessing sort of the reality of it wasn't kind of the easiest rodeo, you know, going from making wine in your garage to amping up the production that you have now. When you started out really small, so I'm guessing you didn't have the best options on grapes and you were exploring and sort of visiting other wineries and figuring out how to treat people in your own tasting room and how not to treat people. You know, what was the development process like for you and Deborah in the early days? Yeah. That's so much a part of the story know, part of the story is I had a couple really, really great mentors in the valley that that helped me along. And, you know, that first vintage that Deborah and I made wine in the garage, we made, you know, thirty gallons of syrah. I've gotta ask, are there any bottles left Yeah. No. You know, for for nine months, you you covet this thirty gallon taken as the greatest gift to mankind. And and somewhere along the line, you realize it's just total crap. You can say that now. I'm sure you didn't say that back in the day. Yes. I can say that now. The justification for making more was, well, I made it in the wrong size barrel. You gotta make it in the sixty gallon barrel, not a thirty gallon barrel. And, well, then you've gotta get a rack. Well, the rack holds two. Look, they stack too. So It just sort of snowballed into having a barrel room in the garage, which held twelve barrels. And at some point, we just said, you know, look, we've gotta do something. At the same time, we obtained our, wholesale distributors license and started an online based wine club and literally visited hundreds and hundreds of wineries here in California. And that's so much the story of, you know, going into wineries seeing how we were treated, seeing how people did things. And, you know, we just we just learned early on that we wanted to create an immersive tasting experience for everyone. There were There were times we walked in a tasting room and not even acknowledge that we were even in there. There was one time I walked in a tasting room by myself, and there were no customers there. And the two people behind the counter we're too busy trying to help a customer on the phone to even acknowledge I walk through the door. If that's incredible, I mean, you know, this this wasn't a hundred and fifty years ago. This was pretty recent. Yes. Oh, yes. Absolutely. This is in the This was in the early two thousands, which is or mid two thousand, which is, you know, kind of remarkable. So but we, you know, we we we use those experiences to learn from and figure out who we want it to be and finally opened our own, tasting room facility and production facility in the Livermore Valley in two thousand eight. We started with a vintage of five hundred cases in two thousand eight, and then we grew by five hundred cases a year, and you're entirely correct. It wasn't about what fruit we wanted to get. It was what fruit we could get either by budget or availability and cool thing as some of those vineyards we started with. We now manage with our own vineyard vineyard manager because we take all the fruit and we've just grown to that, degree. Oh, which is a great, a great end to the story being being able to take over after you couldn't get any fruit at the beginning. I like that part of it. I I know you also had a pretty serious accident back in the day, you know, a barrel fell from the top of a four barrel high stack and landed on your head of all things, and you spent several months in rehab. And a quote that I read that you said really stood out to me. You said as long as I can still taste I think we should move forward. I mean, that's that shows a lot of, you know, really inherent strength and persistence some things we want in our wine, but but what came out of that period? How did you move forward after that accident? It it sounds like it was pretty grave. It it was. It was pretty, it was pretty ugly because it happened, on a Sunday morning to the winery by myself, you know, the radio blast and the wine pump running. And I was jockeying around this stack of barrels in it. It was an empty barrel, but an empty barrel from sixteen feet high at a hundred and twenty five pounds hitting you square on the head before you even know it's off the rack. Yeah. Pretty horrendous. I basically it was a it compressed my spinal cord so that any signals going below my neck were non existent. So, basically, I was gonna lay there and bleed to death or somebody was gonna find me. And, Luckily, Deborah found me. And, yeah, I was in ICU for four or five days, and then in rehoused an in house rehab for three weeks and two days and an outpatient rehab for, I don't know, probably a year after that. And, you know, I'm not a hundred percent. So I have some dexterity issues, but you're right at the point. At the point, when you're in rehab and you're in a wheelchair and you can't you can't feed yourself or walk, it you start making you start looking at options and decisions. And the bottom line is look, as long as I have a palate and I can taste, and I have the ability to evaluate and even tell other people what to do, we we decided to move forward. I mean, inevitably, I'm I'm quite normal. I say I'm not a hundred percent. Well, I'm I'm ninety seven. So all is good in that range. Well, I've never had that kind of an accident, and I'm definitely not a hundred percent normal either. So that's alright. But it's it's interesting that you had that bravery to keep going. I mean, I think a lot of our listeners probably don't really understand how physical winemaking is and how how much time you spend on your feet and and punching down and doing things like that that require a lot of body strength and a lot of physical energy, you know, for all hours of the day. So think people have a, an image in their mind that, you know, wine making involves a lot of swirling and tasting and having fun, but it's a hard job. So to be that incapacitated and still carry on is really a tribute to, you know, your strength of of mind, not just, you know, what was happening with your body. And, you know, the question I get asked a lot is did you take the barrel out back and and shoot it? And it's like, it wasn't the barrel's fault. It was my fault. So I think you should have made it into a table because it tried to get you, but it didn't. You could look it in the eye from from now on. And we held on to that barrel for years and years and years and actually written on one of the bands, I wrote guilty. But eventually, in some, barrel, you know, selling some used barrels for whatever reason, it got caught up in one of those and and disappeared. But Just as well. Just as well. Probably time to let it go. Yeah. Exactly. Next chapter. Well, I I wanna talk about the name of your winery. And, obviously, your last name is Long, and I love the name longevity. I think that is just genius. I know it was Deborah who came up with it, playing on sort of not only your last name, but, you know, an enduring love story and and loving wine and doing things together. I'm very sorry for your loss because I know Deborah sadly passed away in two thousand and nineteen, but I'm amazed at again, the strength of of will that you had to carry on and push through. And now you're partnering with Bronco and making award winning wines and growing your brand. In two thousand and eighteen, you got the title of Livermore Valley winery of the year. What drives you feel? What inspire wires you. What keeps you getting up in the morning to do this? Well, just to kinda rewind it back to the name, as Deborah and I were making wine in the garage, we would, you know, it'd just be us. It was just something we did together and had fun and we could share with friends. And when we first started thinking about a winery name, I said, well, what do you think of long family sellers? And she just kinda stopped and turned and looked at me and said, what other family do you see cleaning up this crap? Yeah. You got a point. So she came up with the with the name longevity, and, we actually named our first wine, which was a GSM longevity, as our first wine, but the name just, it's sort of stuck. And then we took the name longevity for the winery, and then, we had to rename that wine. So that's what became are a Deborah Vay, which is short for Deborah's couve. So, yeah, it's been longevity ever since. And then the heart on the label, I don't know if you're gonna ask me about that later, but this seems like a good segue. I would give Deborah these glass hearts every Valentine's day. And she amassed this huge, huge collection of hearts and heart clothing and heart pictures on the wall. So when we rebranded somewhere around two thousand nine, I designed the heart that's on the label, so it included actually more hearts grape vines and grapes because it truly represented who Deborah and I were at the time. It represented our life, our love, all of it, and that's what's become the iconic label that's been seen on, dozens and dozens of TV shows here in the US. And then, you know, unfortunately, as you said, she, was diagnosed with stage four pancreatic cancer in two thousand sixteen, but I get did get to take her with me at least for the first sitting because there were many sittings. My left arm is the full sleeve of that heart from the middle of my wrist to my elbow. So, you know, we started this together, and I made her the promise that we were gonna finish this together. So family run business. I get to tell the story of Deborah and I every day, which I'm blessed to be able to do. And, you know, that keeps me going. That keeps me going. You know, the the sad part is that she knew what was happening, what was in the process of happening. Unfortunately, she's not here to, you know, experience the, the benefits from that, but it's it's my job now to keep her memory alive. And and I made her the promise, the mosaic of her picture at the winery's never coming down, and and I'm gonna keep that promise. Well, it sounds to me like she's still with you in many, many ways, and I know your son is working with you too now, hopefully cleaning up the crap like she wanted him to do. But I I'm gonna encourage all of our listeners to head over to your website and take a look at your labels because they truly are beautiful. You're being very modest about the heart, which is a really beautiful interconnected series of vines and hearts. It's really lovely. So, an eye catching. And, apparently, it caught the eye as you said of a lot of people in Hollywood because you have been on so many TV shows and big little lies, big bang theory, Frankie and Grace, you know, this kind of exposure What's it doing for your brand? I mean, you I think you have done a very good job of honoring Deborah and keeping things going. It's going gangbusters now. I'm sure she's looking down on you and smiling. I'm smiling from here. So how's this exposure on TV affecting you? Yeah. Thank you for for all the comments. The interesting thing, the TV exposure, it was part of Deborahized plan to gain more brand awareness outside of our own, you know, regional reach. And it it's not like people come flocking to your website to buy your wine. It's just a piece of the branding puzzle. I mean, you've gotta have all those pieces together. What I will say what I think it did do for us, that national exposure, I believe helped us the partnership or gaining the partnership with Bronco wine company, among many other things, but that all that step already into that national spotlight definitely, definitely helped the process. Well, it's it's interesting this partnership that you've that you've come up with. You're you're making your wines with fruit from the transient family and you're using Bronco's state of the art sort of zero waste facility in Sarah's in California, and you're doing a lot of things that are quite sustainable as well. You've got new closure method called a Helix. That's a hundred percent recyclable, which is a really big topic in wine right now. And your son is working with you and you're growing and improving despite everything, fires, pandemics, all of this sort of stuff. What's what's coming along the pipeline for longevity? You know, what are your dreams here? You know, Deborah and I started when it was just the little family, which is still is just the family owned entity. You know, our goal was to get to somewhere between three thousand and thirty five hundred cases a year. Partnering with Bronco, Frituel is a winemaker. It's a ton of fun because trust me, their spice rack is a whole lot larger than mine. So going to blend wines in their lab, which I have done with my son, is a is is a lot of fun because you just have access to so much more. So, you know, that part of the journey is is great. And, you know, this partnership, they have enough belief in me that basically they just gave me the keys to the winery and said, go get it. So we strategically plan on what we're what we're gonna release, when we're gonna release it. When we started, we only had a nationally. We only had a chardonnay and a Cabernet. Of course, we released those March of two thousand twenty, which I don't need to remind anybody what that time was. So we got through two thousand. Not the best time to release a new product. Well, it was the worst time. To that lineup, we've added a Rosea pinot noir, known as, Deborah's couvey, which I'm, I'm happy to, you know, carry that name on. Since then, we've also added to Phil Long Reserve wines, a Napa Valley Cabernet sauvignon, and a Sonoma Valley Cabernet sauvignon. We have a private label wine going into a very, very large retailer here come in the spring. And I know that we will be releasing, Alberino in the main lineup before the end of the year, and we are also working on two sparkling. So that's what's coming up. That's huge growth. But do you see yourself ever becoming a vineyard owner? Are are you gonna be happy with buying in grapes? No. You know, it's interesting. Deborah and I, we always had the goal of what we called the compound, which is vineyard winery home, home for my son and his family, the compound, it it's it's still on the horizon. It's we're we're not quite there yet, but, you know, going from that five hundred cases to now the ultimate goal of a million cases a year, I think we'll get there. I have six children, Phil, and we have the compound idea as well. Sounds like you're closer to it than I am, but I completely get that. A place where everyone can be together and and eat together and drink together and do stuff together. I get that idea at such a good idea. That's that's a happy place. What I'm having a bad day, that's my happy place. Well, good for you. That's that's my, you know, it's it's family, it's gathering, as chickens, as dogs, as cats, it's, you know, it's just that comfortable lifestyle everyone can be together and be about family, work together, play together, and and enjoy each other. We're we're just not here that long. Well, I I wanna take a minute to talk about your work with the Association of African American vendors. You became president there in twenty twenty. And I know longevity is a certified minority owned business as well, which I think is extremely important. You've you've said some interesting things, you know, you you've said you never wanted to be a quote unquote black weinemaker, but now you've become more or less the spokesperson for African American winemaking in the industry. How do you view this role? You know, what are your goals for Triple Avey? You know, just like I never wanted to be a black winemaker. I never set out to be the folks person for AAAV either. So I'm still trying to wrap my head around all of it, but I'm, you know, I'm very, very honored to be in the position I'm in. The association was started by Mac McDonald in two thousand two, because he was recognized as a phenomenal winemaker. He was making mid ninety point pinos from Sonoma. But when he went to events, he said, you know, people didn't look like him. So he started the association, and I think the the founding members, there were maybe six or eight. And I met Max somewhere around two thousand twelve or thirteen in a black history month event. Little did I know he was grooming me at that from that point on is, his replacement. Then I became vice president in two thousand eighteen, and president, as you mentioned, in two thousand twenty. And, you know, the interesting thing about the wine industry and diversity is, you know, we we are at where we're at for many, many reasons. You know, when the Europeans migrated to the US, they came here with grapevines in their pockets. We didn't get here that way. So we started off behind the eight ball, but, you know, however many hundred years later, it's kinda like, isn't it time that if you had a bowl of jelly beans of all the people, the colors, the creeds, the genders of people who drank wine in the world, and you looked at that bowl of jelly beans, you'd see every color a masule. Isn't a time that the bowl of jellybeans that represent the people who make wine look the same? And I think that really is the ultimate goal is trying to create diversity among the industry. I mean, we're we're all just humans here, and I really think that's the key. It's just being a good human. So the goal of AAAV is to assist African American winemakers, people of color, elevate them in the industry, to try to get that land state to look like that other bowl of jelly bean. I I think that should be everybody's goal, not just in the wine sector, but in general. I think we have a long way to go, but, the wine sector in particular has way behind in in this area. I I have a question for you. You said that when you were young, you know, you didn't ever think of wine as a career. It wasn't something that came up for you, neither did I, by the way. But, how are you using your role at AAAV to create awareness for, for young bipoc people who might be just as uninformed about the wine industry as you were and sort of let them see the wine industry as a totally viable field that they can get into and and have a successful career. And and that's the hard part. Right? Because I didn't know I just didn't know it existed. And, you know, there's a very narrow niche of schools that offer inology and Viticulture. Some to do it very, very, very well. Cal polypomona where I went, you know, they offer plant science and agriculture, not necessarily a Viticulture and technology program. So it's re that awareness is really important to start off with young people. And That's why we're trying to partner with, like, the local or longevity is, the local, college here, Laspositas in partnering with, mentorship and, internship for for young people. And again, a big focus of AAAV or the scholarships. When we started when I took over, we had only awarded two scholarships in the entire existence of the organization And, you know, in the last year, I think we've awarded over three dozen. So, you know, trying to pave the path for young African American students or young students who believe in diversity is is really, really key. And that's why we focus on scholarships a lot and the awareness. The awareness is a is a is a big piece of the puzzle. Yeah. I think that's I think that's so true. And so many people, you know, of of privilege don't understand the, you know, really serious roadblocks to getting young, bipoc people into the into the industry. And one of the biggest ones is money, and scholarships are crucial to to driving this forward. They really are you know, and, of course, we've all, you know, in the past few years, been been watching some from the sidelines, some more from the front lines, the Black Lives Matter movement. And there's been a huge surge of interest in supporting Black owned businesses, which is great. But I'm I'm just wondering about how, you know, how AAAV views this because you've got a lot of fantastic winemakers in there, like Theo Lee and the Mcbride sisters and Andrea Mac and and yourself, of course, you know, all people who make truly great wine. Mean, how do you make the need to increase awareness about African American wine, not just an issue of race, but like you said, a a genuinely human issue, you know, as well as getting out the message that there aren't, you know, there's there are black people making amazing wine, but you know, really understanding that this is this isn't just about race. This is about great wine and great opportunity. I you know, that's a really great question. I think part of the process, especially you know, in light of a black lives matter, you know, as a president, I really had to focus on vetting out the bandwagoners, you know, because they're out there. And, you know, there are people that are gonna wanna jump on the bus because that's a bus that's going the farthest right now. But in the end, the goal of AAAV is to partner with serious entities and partners who are serious about a long term change in diversity in this industry. And we have some really, really great partners like wine enthusiasts magazine, like Jean Charles and JC, even Bronco, you know, these are all serious, serious partners. That wanna make a change, we're gonna be doing a collaborative with One Hope winery, a field long label that'll get back to triple a. V. You know, JCB, came up with a wine called Unity, half of the proceeds went to AAAV, and these are all, you know, mechanisms to use to keep the awareness going, to keep trying to, push the narrative that, you know, there are African American winemakers, and we make pretty good wine. And if it's a career that you wanna get into even as a kid, hey, you know, let us let us show you what we did, and that's what we try to do every day. Yeah. I I think this this notion of mentorship and allyship and partnership is is gonna be really what builds the bridges and and makes things happen, makes action happen, not just, you know, the bandwagon, as you said, not just lip service to an idea but real action that we can measure. I think that's that's really important. Yeah. It's it's it's so interesting. I it's great talking with you about all these things and and also talking about the wines that you're making and the quality that you're getting. I mean, you're you're winning awards. You're doing great stuff. You've got a barbera, which is a grape that originated in Piamonte near and dear to my heart. So, you know, I need to ask you before we say arrivederci, what's your favorite Italian wine, and you can't say yours. I know. Of course, I'm not gonna say my mind. As a wine maker, I I know this is gonna be weird to hear. I don't necessarily like drinking my own wine, not because it's not good, I can drink my wine anytime. There's so many thousands and thousands of wine in the world. Why wouldn't you wanna experience something else? So that's that's kinda my view. And I'm actually part of this little It started out as a gentleman's wine club group, and now it's gentlemen's and their wives are, you know, significant others as it may be. And we get together about once a month, and we keep our eyes open for for deals and then one person will buy and will all share in a case or two or whatever it is. But I think to answer your question more directly, I I think I'm on the path to try to find my favorite barolo. I'm not there yet. I'm I'm just gonna keep looking until I say this is the one. Oh, right. Well, I'm not allowed to name producer's names, but, I'll send you an email with my top recommendations. That would that would be perfect. That would be lovely. Oh, Phil, this has been absolutely great. I really appreciate you taking the time. I wish I were nearer to Livermore Valley. Verona's a little far away for me to come once a month to join your club, but it sounds like, you're having a good time as well as doing really great work, for the community as well. And that's hugely important. I've I have a lot of respect. So thank you very much for taking your time out today to chat with me. Well, thank you. I really appreciate the time. And I, you know, I'm sure I'll be headed that way. At some point, you know, we are selling our wines in, the UK. So I'm sure I'll be headed that way. And, when I do, I'll be sure and look you up, and please feel free, like, you've got an open door to the wine and livermore anytime. That's brilliant. Thank you so much, and all the best. Alright. All the best of you. Thank you. Thank you for listening. And remember to tune in next Wednesday when I'll be chatting with another fascinating guest. Italian wine podcast is among the leading wine podcast in the world, and the only one with a daily show tune in every day and discover all our different shows. You can find us at Italian wine podcast dot com, SoundCloud, Spotify, Himalaya, or wherever you get your pods. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. 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