Ep. 927 Kindra Dionne | Voices With Cynthia Chaplin

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, from the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding force? Do you wanna be the next Italian wine ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. I'm Cynthia Chaaplin, and this is voices. Every Wednesday, I will be sharing conversations with international wine industry professionals discussing issues in diversity, equity, and inclusion through their personal experiences, working in the field of wine. If you enjoy the show, please subscribe and rate our show wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to voices. This is Cynthia Chaplin, and I'm delighted to welcome Kendra Dion today, all the way from Virginia in the USA, where she is the founder of PurposeWorks, consulting for entrepreneurs, But her latest accolade is that she is the first black American woman to own a wine label in Virginia's loudoun County, which is fondly known as Washington DC's wine country. Fifty eleven is the name of her company, and she launched in the autumn of twenty twenty one. So huge kudos for opening a new business in the midst of a global pandemic, and welcome to the show Kendra. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much for having me. I am truly honored to be able be on your platform today. Great. Well, it's my pleasure. And I have to say, first of all, that I love the name fifty eleven. I believe it's slang for a lot of something if I get that right. What inspired this name? It's a great name. It's so funny because I do a lot of things. In addition to having my consulting firm, I also volunteer. I teach youth entrepreneurship classes. I serve on many boards in our community to include the new ag school board, which is an agricultural education program that teaches hospitality management and careers in all things agriculture. In our community, I mean, I am constantly doing fifty eleven things all the time. And, when I started the company, I knew what varietals and blends I wanted in the collection. I knew what I was gonna call each bottle. I knew all of those things, but when my mentor asked me, have you selected a name yet? I was like, you know what, Doug? I've got fifty eleven things going on right now. I don't have time and then it hit me. I'm like, oh my gosh. Fifty eleven. That's it. That's it. That that's comes you up in in in two words. I love it. Well, it's it's really such an interesting story because you went from this successful career in consulting and and working with entrepreneurs, and you are an entrepreneur yourself, obviously. And you went straight into the wine business without any formal training, no wine studying, why on earth would you do this? I mean, how did this happen? Were you terrified? Were you excited? Did someone push you into this? You know, what were you thinking? I still don't know what I was thinking. Every day I ask myself that question, what in the world were you thinking, girl? For me, I literally went from concept to bottling. It was so quick. Well, it felt like quick because everything with wine takes time. The process, the cultivation, the growing of the grapes, everything. It takes a lot of time for me, this journey started out working in business development and workforce consulting, a company, which I still actively run very much so full time today, in addition to having the wine company full time, but it was working in this community in the Washington DC area and vicinity, serving government contractors and tech companies and businesses and local startups, I had to learn how to service the agricultural and the role portion of our community as well, and it was through that, that I developed a great friendship with the local winemaker named Doug Fabioli, who's the owner of Fabioli sellers, and he was nicknamed Laven County's godfather of wine. Absolutely amazing and an incredibly giving person in, which we in this community adore about him. Doug and I had many conversations about my interest in the business and, me helping and contributing. So through this time, I started to develop my knowledge of the wine business and the business side of the wine industry. And he asked me one day, have you ever considered having your own wine company? And I told him, no. I took a lot of stuff. That's not something that I've considered. And the more we talk, the more I would have these moments where I would go to networking events, and I would literally nerd out because I would see people not finishing the wine in their glasses, and I couldn't figure out what was going on. And in the most non scientific way possible, I later realized that it was something happening with their palettes and the food that they were eating at these social gatherings where people were just serving wine because wine looked sophisticated. It looked cool to have a glass of wine in your hand. At this networking event, it had nothing to do with people's enjoyment of the product. It was just get something and pour it in their glass, and that bothered me in a, really weird way. I mean, to the point where I felt like it was my mission at this point to do something about this. We need to start giving people something that pairs well with food, something that people can enjoy. So that wine is not the afterthought at the event, but it becomes a conversation piece. And it doesn't have to be so overpowering, but something that fit a diverse spread of foods that fit diverse palates that people could enjoy. And then that came my passion project. That led me into the fields having conversations with Doug during the harvest, while we were bringing in grapes and just working the whole process from from harvest all the way to to barreling. And I I didn't realize at the time that he had me working on my own products. And, I'm so grateful for his gentle nudges and pushes because he saw something in me that I didn't see him myself. And if it weren't for that, I wouldn't be here right now. Wine people are so like that. There's a real generosity of spirit. And it it's nice to know that somebody took you under their wing and as you say pushed you and and nudged you to do something that might not have been, you know, the top idea in your head at the time. Yeah. He would say to me all the time, your passion is so refreshing. He said I've been this industry for a long time, and you have people who come into this industry with different motives, but yours just seems pure and genuine. Like, you genuinely want people to enjoy their wine experience. It's not about the money for you, and he was spot on. I was just passionate about helping people to explore something that just seems so unattainable. That's what drove me into this space, and I love it. I absolutely love it here. I'm so happy. You're the the the joy that you're getting from. It comes right out. I unlike you. I hate seeing, bad wine poured at events, and it's there's so much waste, and I'm I really don't like waste. But I'm I'm really interested in sort of how this is going for you now. I mean, I I saw a quote from where you said you didn't have a degree in winemaking. You couldn't even produce the names on half the labels. You know, I think a lot of people feel like that when they first come to wine either in the business side or as a consumer. So How's it going so far? I mean, does it matter to your customers that you don't have a lot of classical, why knowledge, or can you sort of leverage this newbie status into something they can relate to? I think one of the unique approaches of our brand is that feeling of come and grow with me. You know, meeting people where they are and bringing them along this journey of palette exploration and one expiration along with me is awesome. I still remember the days of going to restaurants and looking at the wine menu and being incredibly intimidated not by the overwhelming selection, but this deep seated fear of mispronouncing the name when I order the wine and embarrassing myself in front of the server. Like, I I don't know why that was so intimidating for me, but it really was. Like, I knew what I wanted. I knew what I enjoyed, and I knew what went well with my food, but I was just uncomfortable pronouncing the names. And now I've gotten to a point where I'm like, you know what? There is no shame in wine. There is no shame in my palette and what I enjoy. I need to select what I am going to buy and what I would like to have with my foods. And so my hope is that my humility in this space and my vulnerability and willingness to allow people into this place that I'm in in my own personal journey and inviting them to come with me. Let's explore this thing together. Let's learn this thing together. That's created a sense of community where I'm meeting more and more people, people who I admire, people who I've seen just working, like, the c suites of local businesses and, I mean, just top notch folks that I've admired for years come to me and they say, you are so refreshing because I was intimidated by wine too, but meeting you and hearing your story has encouraged me to explore and learn more. So it is it's wonderful. Just being here and and welcoming people to come on this journey with me. Well, you're you're so exuberant about it. I don't see how anybody could could not wanna drink whatever it is that you're drinking. But it's it's all I we come back to this a lot in a lot of conversations that I have, but how exclusive language can be and how sort of the that old mis steak around wine. It's all French. We can't pronounce it or, you know, using words to describe it that I've never heard of before. How excluding that can be. And and intimidating is a really good word. That's definitely true. I'm just I'm very on board with everything that you're trying to do and getting getting one enthusiast to sort of open up and explore, and you're definitely giving them that opportunity by being so open and vulnerable yourself. So What's your what's your goal for fifty eleven? How are you feeding your audience and their creativity? Are you giving tastings and classes? Are you doing events? Are you going beyond the wines you're creating? Or are you still at the stage of let's share this wine and let's talk about this. So we're all over the place. When I first started this thing, I had a business plan and within, like, three weeks, I threw it away. It was like, yeah, this is not gonna be it. I with this company, we are doing tasting events, we're doing private events. We're doing corporate events. We are all over the place, which is really getting to know our consumers, getting to know new consumers, and it's not one particular demographic of people. It's not for African Americans or Caribbean Americans or Latin Americans. It's for just people. Anyone who wants to learn wine, experience wine, explore wine in a relaxed approachable and non intimidating manner. When we do tasting events, it is so in most cases, super casual, very laid back. The music is something that is fitting to pop culture what's happening now or throwbacks. We'll do some old school style music playlist, some good instrumentals, you know, things that people enjoy. Like, I want folks to feel at home even if we're not in their houses with this journey with tasting these wines and exploring it. So we try to remove all the stuffiness and the things that normally intimidate folks from this experience, and we're creating more and more of these presenting wine to people. Real people, everyday people in a very laid back and approachable way that does not disrespect the industry or the product, sharing the wine knowledge and sharing education information with them in a way that's in layman's terms, something that they can relate to, something that they can feel confident going back and having conversations with their friends, even if they're not well versed in all of the language of Viticulture, you know, all the things that go along with that. In terms of the company, and where the company is going, what I would really like to do is continue to be a doorkeeper. I wanna open up the door for all the people, everybody, no matter who you are, no matter your background, no matter your upbringing, who wants explore careers in this industry. I would love to see more diversity in tasting room. When you walk in for a tasting, right now, it's a very monochromatic scene. Right? One group of people represented in every tasting room that you go into. I would love for the tasting rooms, yeah, especially in my community, but all over the world, to be representative of all consumers, not just some. I would love to see manufacturing and distribution and bottling and graphic design and labeling all these things be reflective of the community of consumers who enjoy the product and not so one-sided. That's what I would like, and that's one of the things that I hope to do with this company. Everybody's not meant to crush grapes. You know, it won't be everyone's lot in life to put fruit in bottles, but some people might be the ones that are bringing us the bottles that our fruit goes in or designing the labels or producing and making the cork. So whatever it is, there's a place for everyone in this industry. And I would really love to see more people come in with an open mind and an open heart so that we can all enjoy this beautiful product, call wine. That is so smart and so welcoming at your your the way you tell your story is so authentic. I think anybody who tries to stop, you better get out of your way. I'm I'm really excited about your energy for for fifty eleven and what you're doing. I I know it's all about sort of your Richmond, Virginia upbringing, and you were talking about you know, listening to people and their palates and diverse food cultures and, all of these things when you're creating your wine, anybody who knows me, I I'm very passionate about pairing Italian wines with foods that are not Italian. I love spicy food. I love Asian food. I love Mexican food. So I've spent a lot of time preparing Italian wines and sort of blowing people's mind with these weird pairings. Italian wine podcast. Brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Let's talk about your wines, ones you're making, and you said at the beginning, right at the outset, you knew what you were gonna pair these wines with. So tell me about your wines and and where you were going with the pairings because that's always the fun part. Absolutely. So one of the things that my mom used to say all the time is that confession is good for the soul, but bad for the reputation. So at the risk of ruining my reputation, I am gonna tell you I am I'm not the person who has cheese and crackers for dinner. That is not dinner to me. It's a nice snack. Right? But I'm gonna need something else. Like, that's me. We live in Italy. I don't eat cheese and crackers for dinner either. Exactly. So I just, like, I understand from a cost and affordability standpoint why we do this with pairings, but for me, like, my family, the people that I hang out with, most of the time, if we are having a dinner that's traditionally Southern American style cuisine, that's your your barbecues, whether it be barbecue ribs, barbecue chickens, you know, like, fried foods, really rich gravies and sauces. Like, oh my gosh, the flavors are incredible just in the southern region of America. Then when you start taking in, like, some of my friends are from the islands, right, Jamaica and Saint Croy and the career just all parts of the Caribbean. Their cuisine is just boom, boom, pow filled with flavors. I also have friends from India, and, you know, they're always introducing their foods. And most of the time, no matter which culture I'm having dinner with, it's some form of alcohol being served. And in most cases, majority of the time, it's not wine that's being pulled out. It's either, like, some type of a distilled liquor, like whiskey, drums, those types of things, vodkas, beers, those types of drinks, that's when we're having with our dinner. And I'm like, why are we not drinking wine? And I've realized if you're not certain or if you're unsure about what you're selecting when you go to the wine shop or the grocery store or the local winery wherever you purchase wine from. If you're not completely sure what to get, and you're embarrassed because you don't wanna ask a question that might make you appear incompetent or less than or whatever because it can be intimidating. Right? If you don't know what to ask and you don't know what you're looking for, you default to what you know. And what I realized was that people were selecting drinks that fit the profile of the food. So the acidity level, the salt level, the heat level, the sweet level. The drinks usually complimented the food. So I was like, well, what if I presented a collection of wines where I take those things into consideration when I put it together? So as I was testing the wine. I'm testing it with my grandmother's recipe for macaroni and cheese. I'm testing it for, fishing grits. That's something that we love in the south. Right? Shrimping grits, fishing grits. Anything with grits. It's wonderful. Right? And I love, like, oh, my gosh. I went to an HBCU, which stands for historically Black College or University in the South called Winston Salem State University. One of my favorite things at our tailgates was the the fried fish on a thick slice of Texas toast bread, which is like white bread, but really, really thick. And then hot sauce. Right? Sounds crazy. Very country. I know. I am who I am, but you have that with the sweetened iced tea, or you have it with a beer. You don't have it with wine. I wanted to create a collection where I could have a fried fish sandwich at an HBCU tailgate with a glass of my cool refreshing pear wine, and it tastes amazing, and the flavors not compete with each other. These were the things that I was thinking when I was pulling this together, and I'm so proud of what I was able to present. So now when we do tasting events, we bring in that real food. We bring in Caribbean chefs and seafood chefs and soul food chefs and Thai chefs and Indian chefs all of these different types of cuisine so that we can show people how this food really does what work well with diverse cuisine. Oh, Kendra, I am absolutely starving now. I'm absolutely sorry. But you you really are singing my song. I think this is such a great way to, as you said, be a doorkeeper and open the door for for more people to get into wine. If there's wine that's going to pair with some food that they would naturally and normally eat every day and they're really comfortable with, then finding wine that is gonna pair with it is really exciting. So you said you've got a pair of wine. I know you've got a petite man saying and a bordeaux style. Let's talk about this. So you're petite man saying, tell me about that. What was your thought with that one, whereas you were sort of getting getting ready to go with it. I am fascinated with the Petimas in Great. It grows really well in Virginia. We actually source that grape from a farm in Warrenton, Virginia, which is about maybe thirty minutes. From where I live and the vineyard where we process, our grapes. This particular grape to me reminds me of a tropical vacation. I'm the person where during harvest, I'm probably eating more grapes than I'm putting in the theft skits? Because I just love it. I'm fascinated by it. And whenever I bite into a petite dancing grape, I get before it's even bottled, before it's processed, before anything, I get tropical notes from it. It reminds me of a tropical vacation. I get apricot. I get mango. I get banana. I get all of those wonderful flavors in every every single time. It makes me want jerk chicken sliders or rice and peas or plantains, you know, that's what I want. It makes me want ox tails. It makes me want Eskobishe fish. Like, it makes me want all those traditional dishes, kowlou, you know, those those veggie patties or beef patties. Like, that's what I think of, what I have that petite man seem great. And I'm, like, as much as I love Caribbean food, I think I should be doing this. Like, even mofongo, things like the, oh my gosh. Girl, now I'm hungry, but that's what I think of when I think of that Fatima Singh. So when I had the opportunity to select the different grapes for the varietals or blends that I was putting together, I knew I had to have it. I knew that that had to be a part of the collection because it is to me It is the perfect complement to Caribbean cuisine simply because it is an off dry, but those bright fruit flavors make you think it's like it tricks your mind into thinking that it's actually sweet just because the fragrance, the aroma is just so bright and pretty and tropical. Oh my gosh. It's it's to me, it's a perfect compliment. Well, this is just fantastic. I love this approach, you know, tipping the whole thing upside down instead of saying, you know, here's my fine wine now. Find something to pair with it. You've gone with, you know, Here is my food. This is the food that makes me happy, and I'm gonna make a wine to go with it. I really love that. You know, you just burst onto the scene only a couple of months ago. You know, in a county that's, you know, pretty rich with wines. There's, like, forty fifty wineries in in Latin County. You haven't got a vineyard. You're not an old family business. You know, you've got a really innovative sort of pairing philosophy, but do your clients appreciate what you're doing, like, really focusing on the wine? Do they come to you and and they're looking for something else and you have to, you know, sell yourself, or do they come to you looking for this? Focus online with food that they love. I think right now, and again, it goes back to my mom saying confession is good for the soul, but after the reputation So here I go again, Cynthia, I'm throwing myself out there. I think that the fascination of me and and who I am and what I represent in this space is the initial draw of people, and that's being one hundred percent honest and transparent. I think in the very beginning, like those first couple of weeks where we previewed the products and we entered the market, I think it was the novelty of the first black female winemaker in this county coming out, I think that was the initial draw. When folks got in and that wine touched those palette, it was like, oh, wait a minute. This is good. And then the pairing it was that people were hooked. So customers are great, but repeat customers are greater. So I think it was the novelty of me that brought them in, but it was the purity and the the essence, the flavor, the the the palette pleasing, if you will, of the wine that made them stay. And then they started to tell their friends and their friends and their friends. So we started booking events from events. People were coming, and they're like, oh my gosh, we gotta share this with this group. Can you bring this to my professional organization event? Can you bring this here? And so I'm not sure. And people are always shocked that it's me that shows up. They're expecting like me to send out my team, but it's actually me. I'm showing up because my brand is about that authenticity. I love being able to have authentic and genuine and real conversations with people. I want folks to know it's okay. I'm human just like you. I, you know, I, I'm a regular real person who saw something that they wanted to bring to people and experience a product, an opportunity, right, for you to try something that you may not have otherwise selected from a menu like a pair of wine, like a petite man sink, like a Shamerson, like a Pordeaux style blend, and like a port. Most of the time, people don't think to go and get those. And I'm super excited that this year, we're adding three additional lines to the collection. So we're gonna keep growing. We're just going with this thing until I say, okay, I can't do this anymore. Well, I literally cannot imagine you ever finding a better spokesperson for your company than you are yourself. I think that's gonna be a very impossible task, but I've gotta ask you since you brought it up. You know, that that's a pretty heavy mantle to bear. You know, the first black woman owned wine label in loud and young. No pressure at all. Right? No pressure. What what advice would you give to other young bipoc women who are thinking about getting into the wine sector in Virginia? You know, is it something you would say, yeah, definitely do it or, you know, hang on. Let's talk about this. I think that for me, again, transparent. I'll know what it is about you, Cynthia, but you're bringing out all the transparency in me today. Completely transparent. If I had known that I was the first, I probably would not have done it because it is in credibly intimidating to be the first anything, whether it be the first woman, the first man, the first gay person, the first straight person, the first tall person, skinny person, fat person no matter what you are, to be the first Everybody's looking at you. Yeah. Yes. It's like all eyes on me now. You know, and I didn't want that because, again, you know, we go back to the top of this interview. I entered this industry with no formal training. So I'm coming in with no formal training, and I fit into a minority group. And I fit into a minority group that has a negative stigma associated with it as it relates to this industry. I was just, like, pardon my French, but, oh, shit. This is not okay. Like, I'm freaking out. I didn't know I was the first until my business was open. And then that became the headline. Did you know that you were the first? I'm like, no. Like, it freaked me out. So what I would say to others, whether it be a man, a woman, gay, straight, married, single divorced widow. I don't care. Pick your labels or not. Whatever. If you wanna do something, do it because of the passion of it. Right? Vari will be broken just because you're passionate. Don't allow the barrier to be the reason that you enter or avoid anything. Right? We are designed. We're all destined. We have, equipped in us at the time of our birth, a set of gifts and talents. And it's up to us just like the grapes in the field. It is up to us to cultivate it and prune it and develop those gifts and talents because there's a place for all of us in this industry if we really wanna do something with it. So forget your skin. Forget your appearance. Forget your preferences. They don't matter. What matters is are you passionate? Are you willing to commit to doing the work? And are you willing to be a doorkeeper to open it up for others who are coming behind you? No matter what they look like, no matter their upbringing, no matter their knowledge or expertise in the industry, will you welcome them? Will you find a seat for them at the table? Is there a place for them in your business or in other businesses or in the industry as a whole. And once they get in there, will you advocate for them? That's the key advocacy. If it were not for Italian winemakers like a Doug Fabioli who said, I got your back. You just get out there and be you. You're star by yourself. I'll help you where you don't understand or the things that you don't know. And he's been just that. He has kept his word to me. And no, he's not a black person. He's an Italian man who has welcomed me into this space with open arms, and he has shielded me from a lot of backlash. He has kept my eyes focused on the prize. And he said, girlfriend, you got something. Do that. His wife, Colleen, abs absolutely amazing. His whole family has welcomed me in, which is why I call him my godfather, right, because it is people like that who didn't look at my skin, who didn't look at my gender, who didn't look at my life or my lifestyle or anything like that. He just said there's a place for you. I see your gift. I see your life. Let's do this thing. And that was it. I just love that. That is that is such a beautiful concept. We have to cultivate our gifts. Like, we cultivate our grapes for our wine. I think that's that's a really nice way of putting the way people should be behaving and and aren't always. But I've gotta tell you, Kendra. I mean, you are definitely, you know, part of the majority as well. You know, the majority of people out there who are really true wine enthusiasts and real wine lovers. You are definitely at the top of the tree in that in that group. It's it's really nice to hear how much this is, meant to you and how fast you've got this going and how how passionate you are, but it hasn't come back to bite you even though you threw out the business plan and thought, oh, shit. Yeah. You know, I it's it's it's a testament to your generosity of spirit and how you know, how much this means to you. So I have heard that you have got a, quote, unquote, big hairy dream. I gotta ask what that is and what you're planning to be doing in the next, you know, four, five, ten years. Listen. Fifty eleven years, really. So for me, business development is the core of everything that I do. Workforce development is the core of everything that I do. My big Harry audacious dream is to create a space where others who want to learn about the industry can come into it and learn. So almost like a technical, vocational, trades, workforce development, business incubator ecosystem, right? Big old word. I want something like that where no matter who you are, no matter how old you are. Right? Because when I'm gonna be drinking alcohol, I just want them to learn that there's an industry. So whether it be a young entrepreneur who inspires to do something in the space or contribute to the space or whether it be a seasoned entrepreneur or a second generation entrepreneur. To me, a second generation entrepreneur is a person who has worked a traditional career, retired, and now they're for their second win. That to me is a second generation entrepreneur. So that person, I want them to have a place where they can come explore and experience without judgment, without criticism, without ridicule, but just looking. Just looking around the insides of the industry, not with me as the expert, but with a team of people who wanna give back in this way, I wanna create that space for people, and we see what happens. Maybe we produce a whole lot of tasting room managers or some great customer service folks that work in tasting rooms or some incredible distributors who are kind or generous, who are thoughtful. Maybe we create the world's best graphic designers of bottles and cans. I don't know. It's gonna be awesome. Whatever it is, because people will have a chance to enter industry and explore career opportunities and opportunities to start businesses so that we can take this big old wine vehicle and, make it more accessible to a lot of people. I think that is a grand dream. That is a grand grand dream. I love it. And from the sounds of it, I think you're already well on your way. It You gotta find a better name for it, however. Now, listen, before I let you go, I've gotta ask my famous final question. And since you're a newbie in wine and in discovering wine and being immersed in all things wine branching out Have you found a favorite Italian wine yet? So I have a crush on that San Giovanni. I I'm not even gonna lie. That's my thing. Right? Right. Pun intended. I got a crush on San Diego, but I really like wines that come from local producers. And we don't get a lot of locally produced Italian wines here in the US. So for me, I'm really looking forward to the day where I can come to Italy and meet you and your amazing team and some other awesome people and just explore some of the small, local produced Italian wines and really discover the one that I love the most that way. That's what I wanna do. Well, you are welcome anytime. I would I would be the welcoming committee to, take you around and see some local producers, and you can hunt down some Italian wines made in the states up in Oregon. They're doing a lot. So take a look. But it has been so great to talk to you and to hear your enthusiasm and and I hope that you maintain this emulsions that you have and your love for this. I hope it grows and grows because you are a force to be reckoned with. Thank you so much. It is truly an honor to be able to be here on this platform and to share with your audience and others. And I I hope that this conversation is just the beginning, and that anyone who ever had a dream of working in this industry will hear me and my lack of experience and what I've done and let that be inspiration to not let anything or any obstacle or any barrier prevent you from going after what it is that you wanna do. Thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast, brought to you by Vineetale Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benetale international dot com. For courses in London, Austria and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on SoundCloud, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes, at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.