Ep. 1388 Marko Bogicevic | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities appear naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm heading to well, actually, I'm not sure quite where I'm heading. I'm heading to meet the nomad wine guy, Marco Bogicvic. Who is a nomadic wine broker, a wine seller, a wine ambassador, an export facilitator, someone who finds great wines and helps those producers to sell their wines. Thank you very much for being my guest. Charl Mark, Chiao, everyone who is listening to to this podcast. Basically, I don't know how to how I could explain what they do. I like wine in, in all senses. So I just traveled throughout Italy. I just work here in Italy. For the moment. And, I I I try to find the smallest, and the the most, artisanal, winemakers throughout the country. So, basically, that's what I do. It's my, normal wine guy company. Okay. Well, Marker, let's let's start at the very beginning because you have a very strong family story. Tell us how your family came to Italy. So, yes, I I'm thirty one years old. I was born in Sarajevo. At the time, it was nineteen ninety one, was, still, US, Latvia. So I was born in former US, Latvia. And, you know, we we ran away because there was a war, and we we moved to to Italy in London Poreneseza, which is, Neachorino. And, yes, I I grew up in Italy. You you kinda, I think you can listen to my accent. And, I I always wanted to travel. I don't know. We we we run away. So so early at my stage of life. And, I always want to travel. So when I went after high school, I went to Australia, and with, I didn't speak any English. I didn't love wine at the time, actually. My dad drinks very bad wines, still does sometimes. He improved a bit, to be honest, but, not much. So I went to Australia out of, curiosity for life. I of course, I was young. I didn't know where I was adding to. How old were you when you were? I was twenty twenty three. It was the twenty fourteen. So, I remember my first three months in Australia were probably the worst months of my life in terms of, you know, I didn't speak any English. I didn't have any friends, even though there was a family who hosted me super nice family. And, but it was tough. I thought that Australians were bad people, but after a few moms understood that, it it was my fault. So I I started talking English better, and then the experience in Australia was the best of my life. I love Australia so much. I have many friends. I I started doing many jobs, of course, in Australia. And suddenly, I ended up in this restaurant called Otter Sydney. And, this teams of Somalia was super nice. And step by step, I I understood that, I like actually wine. Maybe it was the wine I drank in my little town that wasn't as good. And from from that, from that time, it was always a passion that never stopped. So I start reading books, tasting more wines. Of course, enrolled to the, to a familiar school. First, I did WSTT till level three. Then I also want to enroll for diploma, but then I it was too much money. And, then I did the for the for the for the for the Toyota Camilla, so the fifth in Rome. Many things. But, after Australia, I came back to Italy after a few troubles. And, I, I understood one thing that for me is important now that, not no school will give you what you can, learn or you can understand on the field. So my my, my tip is to go around Vigna Vignas. It's for me, it's way better than any school. Okay. Well, this is really interesting. It's always interesting for me to learn about how people come into wine, how they became interested in wine. And also, you know, you're talking about, Marco, about your nomadic upbringing. Your family having forced to leave your country settling in Piamonte, a wonderful area for wine, of course, wonderful region for wine, but you weren't really interested in wine. You just took off. You were interested in travel, so you really are a nomad. You wanted to see the world. And when you were there, you discovered wine is a way to perhaps see the world and perhaps to rediscover the country that you lived in all your life, the country that that, is your home, and it led you back from Australia to learning more and to then exploring Italy, probably in a way that you hadn't done before because there's so much wine in Italy. There's so many regions every single. One of it at least twenty regions is somewhere to explore. And so that's where your nomadic travels are taking you. You're going around the country now, as you say, learning through meeting people, through tasting. What are you looking for, most? What are the the wine dates or the types of wine that most excite you and most interest you? So another tip that I always give to whoever asked me is to taste everything. Of course, when I first approached wine, I I I start tasting, let's say, big names, well known brand that are everywhere in the world. So I'm not going to mention no binaries, but, you know, big big big sellers because that's how how where you start. Then suddenly, I I start the feeling love for, for new things. I know I'm I'm I'm young, so I guess the new generation is always trying to find something new. But on the other hand, the the obsession on funding, something new, sometimes brings, brings you to just for the sake of funding something new, not just be not because it's it's a great, thing. So there are so many small wires throughout Italy, but not not a lot that are incredible. I think there are many good ones, but not a huge number that are great. So I start trying to find, wines that are more sensible to the the the, let's say, the natural word even though I don't like the tour, I I I prefer to call it, artisanal. So that's what I'm trying to find. So, winemaker that have a vision that have goal on trying to get the best out of, the place where they are. Usually, those wear makers are wear makers, the travel that taste many different wines and that have knowledge. Yes. I understand what you're saying. You're really looking for those small producers of handcrafted wines that, really do things with with passion. But, you know, you were a young guy. You didn't know a lot about wine. You were teaching yourself. You were doing courses. You were going to wine fairs. And yet you were able to make a business from this and to begin to to make some important connections finding these small producers and finding them buyers. You told me how that happened, when you began to actually find small producers and start sounding their wines in New York. So, basically, clearly, I I love wines when after Australia, I started studying going around, very, very hard. And but I didn't know what they want to do in wines because when I went back to Italy, the sommelier, sommelier is not something very well respected in Italy. Someone might kill me now, but I think, that that's my idea, of course. So I was like, okay, I go back to Australia because I don't know what to do. And, so I had this Instagram page. I was posted randomly pictures. By by passion, and I never thought it it would have became, a business, those pictures. And then this guy from you are called, Randall Estiano, which is, which is an angel. We start becoming friends. We were talking about wine, exchanges ideas, what do you think about them? What do you think about this? And they started at some point, he told you should you should bring those small artisan to to New York. And I I thought that was impossible because I never did this job before. Even though I was very fascinated about what Mark De Gratt said it, with the Barolo boys, in the eighties. So he was an American Italian broker that, brought Barolo to to New York. So I always was fascinated about that guy who brought a vision. He didn't bring wine to New York. He brought something an idea of what wine is. So I was, like, fascinated about it, but at the same time, I was scared because how how do I bring those small artists onto New York. Yeah. You're gonna give me context, but I'm not, I'm not famous. I'm I'm a young guy. I was twenty nine. I'm I don't know anyone. And so he pushed me. He pushed me. That's how I started. I started with one winery, then two and three and five and six. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. I think this is really interesting story that, and I think it is something of your for your generation, Mark, of the fact that You know, you you've been finding your way to do this in your own way that what began is posting photographs on Instagram out of passion and out of not thinking that they would go anywhere. And then this guy, Randall Resiano. Oh, I met. We had dinner together. You and I and Randall and some other wonderful producers who perhaps will will speak about in a minute. Randall, of course, being a wine buyer for Italy in New York. And so he was, really supportive, because he respected what you did and the wines that you could bring to him, which nobody else was bringing to him. Oh, he's actually, he's still supporting him a lot. So thank you, Randall. Yeah. Because I don't know. He he he saw something in me. And, it it's nice that, yeah, you know, I always see the positive things it's nice that in a world of sharks and people that are trying to bring you down all the time, there are still people that help you without looking for money or for anything. I was zero. And, yeah, I think for for the younger generation, the important thing is to be, if you're hungry, maybe because my family will run away from US. We were hungry, you know, maybe that, man, that, I will have been hungry. So I think that, anyone can do anything. Of course, I'm not talking. As I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm still my business is still at the beginning, but you need to be hungry and you need to follow your passion. No matter what, the beginning is gonna be tough. You won't have money, but you you can do it because, as I as I said, once to a friend, I'm not scared to talk about wine with, famous buyer now. Of course, maybe I'm talking to someone that has been in the business for twenty five years, and I'm I am in the business for, four, five years. But, what I did in the last four or five years is thinking about one, twenty five hours per day. That might be crazy for someone. Maybe, some wives will, will kill their husband for that. But, no, that's what I do. I want to become the best. And, I don't know if, I'm on the on the right path, but, you need to try. Then if you fail, you fail, but at least you try it. Well, I know that Randall, spoke very highly of of what you're doing in the way you work and the fact that, you are finding producers that he simply wouldn't know about. And I think it's also a testimony to Italy a business that I know well and really respect for what they've done in the world of artists and foods as well as wines, but that Italy, New York, and Randall, had the the was able to buy wines in tiny quantities even from some of the producers you represent and really, you know, would concentrate in on bringing in wines that were really interesting and unique, not just wines that would make the most money. Oh, look. And then I I'll at the beginning, when I started the wine business, you know, some, some wine professionals, some wine people think about wine as, a premier league, like, there are teams. Like, I support artisanal wines. I support natural wine. I support big brands. I I left that ideas of wine. I I work with these types of wineries because that's what I love. But, for me, there's nothing wrong about, you know, whoever sells, big wineries, whoever sells natural wine, whoever sells, organic, biodynamic, whatever. I think there's a space for everyone. And, wine brings joy. I I only think that you should work with, wine and people that you love. For me, it's also very important to work with, great human beings. Why is I work with we have friends? I don't for me, I don't feel it's a it's a job. Marco, we we met, over dinner with some of the producers you represent with our great friend neutral friend Mario Fontana of Casina Fontana with Randall. And, as you say, your interest in wine is is both a business, of course. But also it's what wine brings. And we could sense that around the table. It was a really joyous family occasion, with with singing. I know. I think at end of the table, Claudia was almost about to dance on the table. And, it was a happy time at the end of in Italy. Of course, this important commercial event where everybody was, hopefully doing good business, but also it's an opportunity to get together with the people, who, you know, this is why we're all in the business. Yeah. For for me, for me, it's it's crucial. Something that I love about artisanal wineries also fifty percent is the people behind it. And, it's very important that the wine and the people are, great equally. Happened to me many times that I tested some great wines that I was like, oh my god. I would love to work with that winery. But then I I didn't really like the people beyond it, and I never proposed anything to them. And especially, you know, Mark, my my job is, I'm, let's say, I feel part of the the wineries, but at the beginning, you are a middle man. So let's be honest. No one at the beginning loves the middle man. Either the producer or the importer, they try to get rid of you. But that's, you know, at the beginning of my journey, sometimes that got me upset, but it doesn't happen anymore because the the wineries respect me a lot. And I work in other countries as well. So that's a was a big turning point for me to make my business run smoothly. Yes. Course. Not just a few of those producers around the table. I've mentioned Mario Fontana of Casino Fontana, who makes beautiful traditional barolo, and he also makes a a triple a, triple a, natural line. We can call that as it were. But who were some of the others around the table with us at night? Who you represent? Oh, there was, Manel Marinacci, a guy that I work with and, I love. In Barrasco. Yeah. In Barrasco, he makes traditional, Barbarescco in San Oroelvio, the little, part of Alba town. Abas City. I work with him, very well. He's, he's, like, now now he he became, like, like, a big uncle. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I think he teased you a lot that evening. Yeah. We talk more about stupid things than about business, to be honest. Well, that's good to you. And then there was, Monte de Ronizeno that I met that for the first time. I love his wines. Extraordinary wines from Balboli Chala, but made in tiny, tiny quantity. I love I love his wines. Beautiful. You know, even by politeiela, for example, when you talk about wine, we as people, we all have preconception. We, we always every day, we say, oh, I'd I'd only drink barolo. I don't like wines from, from prosaic region. I don't like, volatility, because they're bold, they're chubby, they're, boring wines. And then you drink wines from Monti Durani, and you are, like, what the hell? So I like to to bring also that type of vision to people that, you don't have to take anything for granted in wine because, Italy so diverse, and, I love to drink blind. So when you drink blind, it's the best time. To surprise people. Yes. We also, met a, a young couple from Giovanni Mondonia in, Romania. That, I went and met them the next day and tasted some of their wonderful wines as well. Especially Albana. In the Albana, very, very high quality. What about, you're talking about how wine is people? How important is food to your business is sharing meals and enjoying and having doing business around the table as it were. So at the beginning, it's it was super fun because, you know, you go to have lunch and dinner with, beautiful people. And then suddenly, again, fifteen kilos. So that was the the worst part. But, Other than that, I think, especially, especially Italian wines needs food. When you when you drink a barolo, when you drink a barolo, just calls some, braised meat. And the and and anxious the the experience. I wouldn't see myself drinking about all of from, Mario's, by on its own. It's it's even You are even, not respecting the bottle itself because, people, the bottle of wine and the food altogether, makes the win. It's like, you cannot have a football team with toll strikers. You gotta have, a mid filter, and you gotta have a goalkeeper, etcetera. So altogether, they make a great team. Yeah. You're absolutely right. And Italian wine, perhaps more than any wine in the world is wine that is made to go with food, to go with regional food as well. I've had many meals with Mario enjoying the foods of Lehlenge, for example, when his mother was alive. She was a wonderful cook, and that's how I came to know and love Mario's wines. But it's the way to really experience Italian wines wherever our listeners are when they're traveling, and I'm sure it's it's one of the enjoyable features of your nomadic wine travels, not withstanding the extra kilos, which perhaps are worth it. Yeah. I mean, I love because, I I'm going everywhere in Italy. So when After Australia, I did a, like, a one year, backpacker trip throughout the world. So everywhere, Philippines, India, Argentina, and whatever. When I I started by business, I know my one guy in Italy, I was like, oh, I was a bit sad that I'm not traveling much anymore to to foreign foreign countries. But then that was the day I understood every little part of Italy. It's like if I'm going to another foreign country. So when you go to the middle of Sicily, when you I, especially, love, Virginia. When you go to the middle of Sard, that's going to another country. Not it's not Italy anymore. So I feel that I do fifty countries per year, even though I'm always in Italy. Yeah. No. That's a wonderful way to look at it. And I think that's a wonderful way for our listeners to think about Italy that there's so many new places, so many new wines, so many new foods to try. Marco, I think we'll we'll close here. Thank you very much for sharing your story. It's a it's a really heartening story of how you're building a business. I know you're at your early days, you're a young guy. But I'm sure nomad wine guy is going to go from strength to strength. I look forward to meeting again and to seeing the producers you discover and work with into sampling their wines. So thanks so much for sharing, your story with us. And I look forward next time to seeing you over a glass of wine or two. You you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time.