Ep. 1425 Pepe Schib | Wine Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we will learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we are traveling to Tuscany to the Kianti Clasico. To meet my guest, doctor Pepe Shib Graciani, who is the global wine ambassador for an important wine estate. Good morning, Pepe. Thank you so much for being my guest this morning. How are you? All good. Thank you, Mark. Absolutely enjoying the support unity to talk to you and all your ambassadors. It's a real pleasure for us too. Now, Pepe, before we move on to talk about tenuta de archano, tell me a little bit about yourself. I know you're a dual national of Spain and Switzerland. You hold a PhD in marine biology. And while doing your military service, you served as a Swiss guard in the Vatican for pope John Paul the second. How did you get involved in Italian mine? Well, when I was living in Switzerland, my neighbor was one of the most important wine importers of Italian wine there. So, actually, in the wine business, doing babysitting for a wine importer. That's the way I got him. Yes. I see. And you've worked for some impressive Italian wine companies, but you've been with the Jackson family now. The owners of Tinuta Darcena for quite a while. Tell us a little bit about that connection and about the Jackson family. When I was working ten years ago with the Italian distributor of Tina Artiano, I'll go to meet the Jackson family in California, and it was like glove at first sight because it's a huge company family owned. We have so many estates just focused on quality. And that's also what we do internally at the Artino since ninety four. When, just Jackson and Barbara Bank arrived to Italy saw that place and just bought a thousand hectares of land. Wow. So that's an amazing story. They have such an impressive portfolio of wine estates both extensively across California, Oregon and Washington, but also internationally. They noted the archana is the only Italian estate. Is that right? Yes. As for now. That's what it is. Take us to the southern Kianti classico. Take us to this historic. Tell us a little bit about the background and describe it so our listeners can get an impression of where you are. Yeah. So we mentioned in, ninety three when Barbara Bank and Jess Jackson arrived to Italy. As you said to the southernmost part of the county classical, they were looking for land because Barban has always said that the land is the most important thing to own. They normally look for a big chunk of land because that's when you can really protect also your vineyards that are inside that territory. And they found in Casanova are doing that these thousand hectares of beautiful, healthy countryside with so much history because already the etruscan would have been producing agricultural products there. We had then in the fifteen hundreds, noble families like Delta and the piccolomini that started building houses, making like romantic gardens in there to embellish the property. But the agricultural part is what we really are so proud in Acinutaleoceno. So it's a huge state then, Pepe. It's a huge state, but actually one thing that you have always to point out in Tuscon is that it's always intervened with nature. So it's not just a thousand hectares of vineyards or olive groves, but it's most of it are just woods or land that houses olive groves, ten percent only has been transformed into vineyards. So really a natural, also aesthetical point of view, nice place to be and and wander around. Okay. Now, Pepe, I joined a very interesting discussion with you and Lawrence Cronen, the to the our channel winemaker recently. And it was really fascinating to hear and to learn about how this extensive terrain, this extensive estate has so many different pair walls within it. And that's one of the most interesting parts of the project. Isn't it? How certain parts of the vineyard are more suited to certain great varieties and indeed through concentrating on particular single grape variety wines. Yeah. That's correct. So when we arrive there in the nineties, and Pierre Seillon, our French winemaker that produces for us also wines in our property in Verite in Chatela Seque in Bordeaux. So with lots of interest in what he calls the micro crew philosophy. So each parcel, each vineyard is looked at what's the soil what is the potential? Which grade should be planted there because of the soil because of the exact microclimate that governs over that part of the estate. So it was divided into about sixty three different blocks at that time. Now because we could also another part of the estate at higher level, higher altitude, we have about a hundred different micro crews. And these are all tender, harvested, vineified, then put into oak separate just to enhance really what gives a special character to the wines to the grape, to the variety that is grown there. Okay. That's a really fascinating approach that sort of microvinnifications that help your wines to really have an identity of the land. What's also very fascinating for me and I'm sure for our listeners is how the wine production on the estate is, I think Lawrence explained roughly about fifty percent of fifty fifty between Chanti classical and Supertuscan. Tell us a little bit about this divide. Yeah. That is correct. So We are located in the Kianti classical Appalachian. Fifty percent of our production is therefore dedicated to this appellation. So mostly San Jose, by law, it should be eighty percent. And then twenty percent other red grades. What we tend to do is to increase the sangiovese because that is the most characteristic grade in the blend. And so even for the entry level, which is a little bit understating that wine, the county classical and nata, we use eighty five percent San Giovanni and fifteen percent merlot, to give, a touch of freshness and red fruits to the wine. But then we get up to our straddles, so which is a hundred percent San Giovanni, really a fantastic wine. On the other side, obviously, because of all these differences that we find in our estate, which go from three hundred meters above sea level up to now six hundred fifty meters above sea level. So so many different expositions, so many different altitudes and soils are low. Obviously, also to produce grade wines with or the grapes. So we have what we call the I GT wines in the Katceo negeographic at Pica toscana. And then we produce three different super tuscans. One is a blend and two of them are carbon single variety and then hundred percent more low now for our Valadona. Okay. So that is really fascinating. The altitude is such a range on the estate, but also these differences in terwa in the makeup of the soil. How do you decide then, for example, where to plant? What would be better suited for Merlo, for example, or Cabernet franc in relation to the vineyards best suited to San Jose. So we have seen, for example, that San Jose likes very poor soils. Merlo instead, which is a very early ripening gray with climate change, and obviously, these very hot vintages and years that we are having lately, We have seen that it grows better in cooler parts of the estate. So you tend to have more loamy sandy soils for the merlot, plant them in places where it's not full day exposed to the sun. And therefore get the merlot ripening later in season as it would normally do. That some, for example, for Baladona, very, very interesting that we have merlot that ripens probably two, three weeks later than normally in Tuscany the malo would ripen. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Okay. So that's really interesting. And and for cabernet, the cabernet franc? So cabernet sauvignon is rather easier to find the right soil. Cabernet franc, we have seen that is the grape that is performing best now in regards to the climate. So, this last year's, it really can say that the cabinet franc, whatever we have got the vineyards. It's performing well on grainy vintages, on cool vintages, but hot vintages or really dry seasons do not really affect the quality of this grade. Oh, that's interesting. So climate change is really being part of the decision making process of where vineyards are planted. Which vineyards do you best to take into account this reality? We have regrafted a lot of our vineyards from maybe Cabanissovigno or Malo because we have seen They are not producing the quality we really like for our wines. And we have regrafted them to carbonifranc because that is now really a good choice for Tuscany. So you will see in a future, not just from us, which started in already in two thousand two producing wines with carbonifranc, but you will see also more producers in, in Tuscrini with good carbonifranc wines. Yes. Okay. Well, Let's talk about two flagship wines, strada Al Sasso, which you've already mentioned, the county classical Grand Salazione, and Arconum, which we've been talking about at the Cabernet frog I had a chance to taste both wines just the other night and, complimentary both are really beautiful expressions of great variety as well as terroir. And though they're very different in style and taste, I think they share a beautiful concentration of fruit, a balance of acidity and tannin, and just a gorgeous elegance in the mouth. Although the wines I sampled, I I I guess we're relatively young, two thousand sixteen, two thousand fifteen, They had a beautiful drinkability, yet clearly our wines that will benefit from lengthy aging. Yes. So two thousand sixteen is not necessarily the most acclaimed vintage, but it has performed very nicely. It's a very elegant vintage, rather cool, on the cool side, what gives you this super expression of sangiovese in Chanti classical. In the strada, Sasso, in our grand selection, what we are looking at is a vineyard planted in ninety seven, and the two first hectares that we planted just below the little town of San Guzman, Casanova, Dhinga, at three forty meters above sea level. From that two hectares were the best Sanjay at all in the, at the estate growth. We take the best thirty five barrels. So it's not only a grand selection. It is a single vineyard, and it is also a barrel selection. So really the best of the best, of our Sanzo basil consider. We have there about fifteen different clones of Sanzo basil planted on the same vineyard because we were experimenting with the the clones more at that to that kind of soil. We age the wine for twelve months in second used oak barrels, French barics. And I think the result is, as you said, very clean, fruity nose, and then that super elegance that you probably would only find in Prudellos of big producers. It's an absolutely gorgeous expression of County classical. Tell us a little bit for readers not familiar. With gran solazione because it hasn't been around for that long. What makes a gran solazione a candy classico? So the gran solazione was really invented or defined for the vintage two thousand and ten. The first vintage is that you will really fine. So it kind of elevates the Kianti classical Reserver, which has always been, on the market to something specific of the estate. So you have to declare from the beginning that That single vineyard or that selection of grapes is going to make your granularity on a new kind of bottle grapes that are not grown outside of your state. So it really is a definition flagship of your state. And it has to age for thirty months. Before you can release it into the market. Okay. So it's really a super quianti classico defining both the terroir that it comes from, but also these, longer and more important aging restrictions or requirements. Yes. We call it the point of the quality pyramide in Canticlassico. So it's really a small percentage of the wine that gets that classification and that into that typology of of Now let's talk about our column then in contrast an equally great flagship wine of the estate, but, different in style completely. It is completely different, but on the other side, it also shows the reds red that goes through our product even if it's an IgT considered a super tuscan, it shows the elegance that we can produce in tuscany. So it's not that kind of concentrated super rich, low acid So Pertuscan, but it has the kicking acidity that we always expect from Tustuscan wines. And it is not a single vineyard like the Stada Sasso, but it is a blend of twelve different blocks of cabernet franc. So all around the estate, we have these different cabernet francs different because the soil is different. The exposition is different. So end product, the end wine is totally diverse. And the way the micro crew philosophy comes together in the wine is the PR CEO and Lawrence Cronin at the end of the aging process of the of the wine in barrels. They start to taste the single barrels and they put together the wine, adding all these different notes, all these different micro crews to give architecture to the wine. So it's not constructing the wine in the cellar. But it is giving architecture with the palette of colors that the vineyard give to you. Okay. That's fascinating a way of constructing it in the vineyard through these micro parcels. Yeah. And the more you get into that, philosophy, the more you see, oh, I can give from this here a touch of a bit more that, acidity here, a bit more the roundness, get a little bit of, red fruit or black fruit, or, and all these components get together. And then when you said, like, Wow. This is so complex. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And I I know what you mean in terms of although the wines are completely different in style, there is this family characteristic. As you say, the bright freshness that comes from ethnicity making both wines so good with food and also that balance and elegance. The tannins are very well integrated, and the use of oak is very, very precise as well. So I think really two beautiful ones. Now, Peppy, I'm not going to ask you which is your favorite child. I think I did ask Lauren sat question, but I think what's more interesting to consider is that with this range of wines from, we've only discussed a few of them, but they're such distinctive wines. And in relation to pairing them with foods, because I think these are clearly wines to enjoy with food. It's interesting to consider perhaps whether certain wines are more suited to different types of food. I mean, the county classical, the really cries out for a bisteca on a fiorentina. It would just be divine with that. But Arconum perhaps has a more sophisticated foods. What is it? What are your thoughts on? The wines matching with foods. I think personally that you should be drinking the wines with the food you like. So that is the best pairing. But then obviously on the other side, like you said, a county classical is paired better, and especially if it's a reserve or a grandsile exioni with some red meat. It's like a fiorentina or whatever whatever red meat, like juicy steak you want when they are young. So make the difference. A young candy classical paired with red meat. Yes. If you go for our struggle with age and it becomes more delicate, all that umami comes out of the Sanjo beze. I believe they are much better paired after that to some tough us or to some mushrooms, like a nice, you can have their, like, really nice experience on the pairing. With the super tuscans, obviously, we go to, like, more refined food. We maybe, would paired to an archonum to the company, Frank, some really, how to say, savory SKUs made out of game. Wildpore is the first choice obviously in Tuscany. But in the northern parts of Europe, we would maybe match to that some deer or some other game. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I'm imagining all of those foods with these great wines, and perhaps with the Merlo based wines, what would you be enjoying those with? So drinkable, so beautiful to just enjoy drinking. The Valadona, the hundred percent Merlo, which is coming out of this autumn, the twenty eighteen Valadona. When it comes to game, I would say pairs some birds like pheasants or or folds, things like that would match very well. But on the other side, probably the best match is also to Jesus. And the end of the dinner that is where I see Valadona just enjoying the the silkiness of that wine. The silkiness, perhaps, with an aged pecorino. Okay. Now final question, Pepe, Can you tell us about hospitality at Tinuti D'R Channel? Our listeners like to travel and find and visit, the places that we talk about, and tell us about whether they can visit D' Nuta D'R Channel and what hospitality is offered? I also believe that it is very important to get to know a winery to visit the winery and see on place, how it works, what it's done, what are the difference, why it is, supposed to be good or not that good. What we have is a very interesting in tasting room where we offer for the tourists. It's better to obviously, make an appointment to be sure that you have the time and and dedication of our team there. Andrea federica will always welcome you there. And taste with you the wines, explain the vineyard, show you around the estate. If you have a little bit more time, we have discovered last year that in a secluded part of our forest, we have some truffles So from September to about end of April, we can organize truffle hunting at the estate, yeah, which is very, enjoyable because, you are out there in the nature with the dogs and It's quite an experience. I can say. When it comes to hospitality in the sense of, overnight accommodations or so, we do not have that possibility to offer to the guests, but I highly recommend we work together with Castell Munoz terrible close to our state and all the different places. It's really nice resorts that we have all around the state. Also, Papoland County where they have the soul food bars. So there's lots of possibilities and anyone who wants some more information can just write to us, and we can give you good addresses that we highly recommend. Yes. Well, that's great. Those sounds like wonderful places. And I certainly look forward to visiting Tina to DR chain. Oh, I haven't been yet. But I'm very eager to come and meet you and, learn more about the estate. Do you know the invitation is open? So whenever you want. Thank you, Pepe. It's been a great pleasure talking with you this morning, finding out more about Tinnu to the archano and the great wines that are being produced there. Thank you so much for being my guest today. Thank you, Mark. Happy to do that. I hope to see you soon. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe cribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.