Ep. 1555 Brad Horne | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded. Recently hitting six million listens support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steven Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities appear naturally with their wines, and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it's my great pleasure to welcome to the show of fellow wine communicator and my good friend, Brad Horn. Brad is the founder of Wine Time London, and on this platform he communicates, educates, entertains on all subjects relating to wine. Brad is a presenter and host of Wine's social live on IGTV, and he's regularly asked to be a judge at various wine competitions. Welcome Brad. Thanks so much for being my guest today. How are you? Thank you, Mark. Thanks for having me. Super excited to be on the show. I've obviously been an avid listener of the Italian wine podcast. And this show. So I'm really pleased to to get the call up to be on the show. Well, I'm delighted to have you, and I'm glad you're you're an avid listener. That's always good to hear. Brad, tell me, your mates must think you have the absolute best job in the world. Tell us a bit about your background, what you did in the past and how you actually got into wine? Well, it's it's a it's everyone's story. It's just one of those questions that I love to ask, Mark, people's entry into wine, how you got into it. Leaving school, I was actually an engineer, networking and electrical engineer. So I used to trawl the streets of London looking after big hotels and their networking and printer and IT demands. So a very different background, so but actually, that got me to meet a lot of people in the wine industry. So from soms, from chefs, from people at wine tastings, and I happened to upon a few wine journalists, and started they said, Brad, why don't you come and try this? They met me a few times. And I started to drink wine and taste wine with these guys, and said, Brad, you've got a pretty good nose and a pretty good palate. And actually, you can communicate well about it. So why don't you jump in? So that's how it started as a passion project from something completely different, but to to now, Mark. That's incredible. I'm just wondering, Brad, if that background in electronics and IT made it a natural progression to use new media that you're using. So effectively, to communicate, you know, because the world of wine communication has certainly evolved greatly, and I'm fascinated by how you can communicate so effectively, you know, utilizing different platforms. Mark, that is a great question. Actually, no one's actually asked me that before, which is quite stunning. I think it probably is, and I've actually not even thought about it, but actually having that background, when COVID nineteen hit, no one was doing IGTV lives in the UK, and I'd already had started to build up a platform doing it. So that's where it sort of snowballed for me, but I was already using this platform. And when we all got locked away, sadly, and and that terrible two years span of of being locked indoors, I'd already had a a head start, and I'd already been doing and using these platforms. So that probably did send me in good stead to where I am now. And actually, that's a really great question, but I never really thought that that background made me actually already have this in mind to actually start IGTV live and using Instagram and using different media. So that is a really good question. Well, it is really interesting because, you know, particularly for me, I'm a little bit older than you, Brad. You know, I've I've been Only a few years, only a few years. Only a few years. Only a few years. Just a number, mate. And it's, it's fascinating to me to see a completely new world of line communication that's evolved and actually evolved very, very quickly. I'm interested to hear, Brad, that you really got into this during COVID during that time, which was a terrible time, but which also gave us all the opportunity to explore new things. You know, we're in our homes, and we could play around a bit because we have that enforced time. And you use that time very wisely to begin to build up What is now your profession? Totally, Mark. And then that is you mentioned my friends, they believe I have one of the best jobs in the world. And as you in the wine industry, yes, it is a super job, but it is still work sometimes. But it's a job that I love. And my dad always said to me when I was younger, find something you love to do and do it and that make it your job. So that's what I've done now. And actually, I've been quite fortunate. So, yeah. Think we probably both say the same. It is work and it is hard sometimes, but it's it's a great profession to be in. Yeah. Absolutely. And everybody does think that you're just going to drink wine and go to tastings all day and and have a good time. But it is, you to do what you're doing, to do what any of, you know, the wine communicators, we know well to gather friends, mutual friends, people we respect people who have been doing this a long time. To build a profession out of is dedication and hard work. I know sometimes we've met in London, and I'm seeing you and then you're rushing off to another tasting, and maybe even another one after that, you know, sometimes do multiple events on the same day. So I know you're working hard running around town, but building up a massive portfolio of content, which is what it's all about, isn't it? It totally, Mark. And then that's what it is. And I'm lucky that I do live in London just, well, Southwest London. So it's it's twenty five minutes to to anywhere central. So for me, and having that, you said two or three tastings, sometimes four or five, But for me, it's also about the content, but also we're probably gonna get to this ability to be in a judge for several competitions around the world, having these portfolio tastings, and being able to just educate my palate and just keep keep learning, keep keep tasting because wines evolve, styles evolve, and having this helps me. So that is work as well. If I'm not work, not a paid job or not a job, it's still work because I'm training my palette for later events, for later judging. So really it's so important to get to these other events, and I find it is a a really great tool for when I'm judging. I go back to those tastings and what I tried and have a a sense of what the wine should taste like. Yeah. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. Now, Brad, is Instagram your most important platform. You have twelve and a half thousand followers, which is an amazing number of people to be speaking to. Yeah. It is the main platform that I use. There are other platforms starting to appear and they come and go, but I think Instagram for me is the platform that I use readily because I think it showcases what I like. About social media, be that imagery, be that video, be that some written text as well. So I think that's so important. But for me, I'm a verbal communicator, and I like to use my hands, use the landscape, use the people around me, and and actually, I think that's quite important for me as a communicator that people get to see me and my honesty and my openness. And if I'm smiling about a wine, they they've seen that smile before, and they know I like it, and and hopefully they will too. That is interesting that it's your style is very much based around you and people trusting you, and you're able to communicate in concise short information filled bits. I'm always amazed at how much content you can fit into a very short amount of space, whether it's a video or it's, through your written text. But the visuals are very important, don't they? Totally. I think that helps for I I don't wanna generalize everyone, but a younger audience getting them into wine getting them into communication, to learning to enjoying wine. I think that we are visual learners. I'm a visual learner, and there's a lot more visual learners around now that I think having this visual platform really helps then feel that they can be part of the wine world. I love writing books. I love listening to podcasts, but some people maybe a bit thought a bit daunting to pick up a a wine book. The Jancis Robinson at this of wine. It's a wonderful book, but some people might feel a bit daunted about picking this book up. And hopefully with this, it does give them the platform to fill. Actually, I can do that after a year or six months. I think, yeah, I'm in wine now. I can go and pick up books and know what these books are all about. Yeah. I understand that. And, actually, you've answered the question I was about to ask. I was going to explore the way you use Reels as opposed to communicating through static images. But I'm really guessing that your most important way is through your voice, through talking, through making these videos and reels, and also using stories. Totally. And is it's about, yeah, people trusting me. My voice, as Mark, you're a podcast host, your voice is so important. I like fact that Instagram, I can use my voice, but I can also use my body language. I think that's so important that your body language can speak a lot about what's going on. Are you really enjoying it, or are you just saying it? So I think people get to trust me because they know what I'm like on the camera. And then when they meet me off camera, they realize that I'm exactly the same, the same person behind the camera, or in front of it, taking the picture. Actually, that's absolutely true, Brad. You present exactly as you are in person. And that's really nice because I think people watching feel that they're almost a friend about through watching your videos and when they actually meet you, then they probably do become friends. Totally. I'm I'm a I'm a friendly person most of the time, Mark, so anyone wants to chat about wine or about anything. I can give them a few minutes or or hours if if they need it. Sure. Now, Brad, we just talked about some of these technical aspects about your work. Well, I think what's more exciting is the content itself. So tell me what excites you most about wine and what are your current enthusiasm? Well, I'm we're probably gonna dive into Italy a bit later, but I do have a passion for Italian wine and Italy itself every time I go back to Italy on a press trip, work, or holiday. I always find something super exciting. The amazing wines from amazing makers and producers, small producers, and large. And I was in, Lake Tres amino in the in the center of Italy in, betweenumbria and Tuscany, and there's a branache there. And it's a wonderful wine, super vibrant, fresh crunchy. And I found that these wines really showcase what drinkability is in red wine, and I was honestly amazed by this small producer producing these wonderful wines and this beautiful backdrop. And that's what excites me, Mark, but Italian wine, it's just every time I go back, there's someone else some other grape that I might have not known, that just sparks my interest. And I went with my family, and they they saw that big beaming grin on my face when I tried this wine. They're like, my wife said to me, Brad. You really enjoyed that. And I said, it's it's outstanding. Like, this is what This is what I got into Wine four to have that excitement. Wine to Wine Business Forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine. Supercise your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point wine dot net. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about and how Italy as a country always excites and always something new to discover. But we'll return to that, Brad. I'd like to explore that a little bit further. Let's go back to something you mentioned previously, the fact that you're often judging in competitions, both here in the UK as well as internationally. How valid are awards for both producers and for consumers for wine drinkers. I get to answer this question quite a lot, Mark, and it's actually, every time I answer it, I actually come up with a different answer because I actually ask producers and consumers the question as well. What they get out of it and what they see as the most important thing. I'm gonna start with consumers. I think for them, it's it's a sort of guideline. And we spoke about that trust. So if they see my name, I judged in that awards and my stickers on there, they might say Brad. Did you judge this award they mentioned to me on Instagram? I've I I just got a an ID of zero five five star wines tag. And I'm like, yeah, I did actually. I was on that panel, and I got to try that wine. And, yeah, we did give it a silver or a gold, and it was fantastic. And that's important for them to have sort of a guideline and a trust and trust the competition because they realize every time I've tried a wine from that competition and it's got ninety five points or a gold medal. It's been amazing. So then they build out that trust there. But on the flip side for producers, I actually think it's a justification. Yes. When they get a gold medal or a high score, but actually recently, I've actually found it more beneficial to producers that don't get a medal or don't get a high score. And I seem to be writing more notes feedback of why they didn't get a medal. So actually, I think even for producers that don't get these high scores or win having that why didn't we get it? How can we improve? What do you think we need to do? What's next? What and actually, that that's just as important, Mark, as the gold medals for me. And actually, I speak to other producers that say, If we win, it's fantastic, if we don't, like a pinch of salt, we we're not gonna take it to to heart because on the day, it just might have not been singing. We all taste wines, Mark, you've tasted many wines served by. That one day it's absolutely outstanding. And then the next day, it should feel a bit flat. So I think that the day is quite important as well. So some producers, they get it, some don't, and I think some take it with a pinch of salt. But for me, it is really important just as a guideline for consumers, of what these wines are and what they should be like. Yes. Absolutely. I understand what you mean from both the producer and the consumer side. We were both judges at five star wines, which was an incredible experience, wasn't it? Yeah. Absolutely. I really loved the competition. I've now been judging for the last three years there. And for me, it's the community behind it. It's obviously the whole judging process and the seriousness of it. Every person in that room brings a different quality and aspect to the of the wine world. And that's what I really love about Five Star. I think it really showcases the best of Italy Italian wine, but also the best of people talking about Italian wine or drinking Italian wine or hosting Italian One or winemakers and acknowledges. So for me, that's what Five Star is. It's it's a very different style of competition because it brings so many people from so many different backgrounds They're all at the top of their game and the top of their profession, but they all come in and we all bring something else to the table when you're judging wines. And I think that's why it's such a wonderful competition. Yeah. I agree. And just to explain to our listeners, I think There were about eighty judges this year, and those would have been Italian winemakers, Italian Commeliers, a foreign journalist Italian wine ambassadors, wine communicators such as yourself, and we broke down into teams of five and discussed every single wine that we tasted in flights of well, I don't remember how many wines. I think we're tasting about seventy or eighty a day. It was quite a marathon over those two days. And over that course of two days, some two thousand two hundred wines were tasted. So it was an extraordinary organizational feat for five star to do this to present the wines. If a wine was defective in any way court, they had spare bottle to bring out. And we did exactly what you said, Brad. We discussed the wines that had over ninety points, which made it into the five star book. But also the wines that didn't quite make it. We gave reasons why they didn't quite make it in order to help the producers. So I hope it was helpful for producers, and certainly it will be helpful for consumers because it was a very rigorous serious tasting. But afterwards, there was a lot of fun too as we got together for some dinners and and met such an amazing group of people. Totally. And then that's what it's about for me, five star, the Italian wine community. It really is that sense of, yes, when we're there to judge it's work, and we're all heads down. We're passionate. And if we have a different sense of opinion, yes, I'm gonna hear you out, but you're gonna hear me out. And we're gonna come to a consensus of where we feel this one should be. But it's afterwards as well that community spirit, that networking, that camaraderie that I don't find in many other walks of the wine world, and that's why I absolutely love being in verona for the day. Did you stay for opera wine in Vin Italy? I didn't. I'm afraid because this year, it was my daughter's birthday. It fell on my daughter's birthday. So I had to fly back. Oh, you know, me, my family first. Obviously, I love wine, but family first. I'm a family Absolutely. That's quite right. But as you've already mentioned, Italian wine is one of your main areas of interest and expertise, and you were touching on what you most love about Italian wine, about being in Italy. So tell us a little bit more about this Bussman's holiday. You spend your life tasting wines, going to tastings. And when you have a family holiday, what do you do? Of course, you go to Italy, you go to wine regions, and you bring your family to meat producers, Not just for the tastings of the wines, but because you know what a rip and fun experience that will be for all of you, even your children. Totally, Mark. And that's probably why we're the last four years. We've actually been to Italy for our summer holidays. Be that different regions last year it was more in the north. This was more in the central part. And you've got it perfect. You hit on the nail on the head there, Mark, for me, it's the people behind the wine and the people of the country. When I bring my children along, they feel like they're part of the family, and it's not some places you go in the world, when you bring children to these tastings to these events, they can be sort of, oh my god, there's kids here. What's that? But in Italy, it's so family focused and centric that it felt like they wanted them to be there. I went to one producer a very big producer. I took the kids, and I was a bit scared that maybe, oh, they might feel a bit out of place. But honestly, on our tool mark, there was more children than there were adults, which was fantastic. I felt so warmed, and everyone did, and then the host of the event was literally more about the kids. Obviously, we got the information we needed and got to try the wines, but the kids were the focus, and that's what I love about Italian people, Italian wine, and everything around Italy that is so family centric. And if I bring my kids along, it's just another guest, and they're gonna look after them. And it's done in such a natural way. They're not accommodating the children in any way. For Italians, it's totally natural. The children that are there and wine and talking about food and introducing young people of whatever age to wine is just the way life is. The way life should be. Totally, Mark. And now that's you just, again, said how I felt that it was about their opinions as well. It's not like it's just there because mom and dad are there because they're a person and they're if they're interested to telling them the stories, be a bit of history because my daughter's really interested in history. My son's interested in geography, and he was out in the vineyards. And that's what it's about finding what they're into. And it all relates back to wine in the end. But they were so focused on making sure they enjoy it because then if they enjoy it, we enjoy. Yes. Absolutely. And that's really nice to hear that your children found areas of interest through wine that excites them too. Absolutely. And, yeah, who knows what the future holds for them? Whenever we go to a vineyard, they are very excited still, which is amazing and helps that long continue. When I began, I booked the wine roads of Italy, came out in nineteen ninety one, and my son was two years old then. So we spent a year traveling all around Italy with him, and he's now thirty five. And, tell you, he loves he absolutely loves wine, always has and, and food. So if you instill this love from an early age, it will stick. It'll be a great gift to give them for the rest of their lives. Well, I'm touching my head. I know people can't see me, but touch wood as you say in the UK. Yeah. Now, of course, your time in Italy wasn't just about tasting and drinking wines. It was also about wines and foods and enjoying that the way Italian gastronomy is so regional, so specific to each corner that you happen to be in, not even Tuscany, but whether you're in the county classical or in Bulgaria or, in the Marima, food and wine combinations are really unique. Did you come across any particular favorites that you enjoyed. I always say it's my and I'm quite lucky as you are. I get to travel around Italy for press trips and holidays. And there are a few of the last few years that I've really been, honestly, to light bulb moments. And once is a very simple one. It is wild boar, ragu, and Keanty classical. I think when Keanty classical is perfect and served at the right temperature, which is very important. Sometimes we get it wrong in the UK, it's beautiful, and it can be quite refreshing and have texture that's one pairing that I always share with family. Oh, that's that's a very good one. And with that, on, on, on the thick noodles. Oh, yes. Absolutely. You've hit it on the head, and I had a lovely bowl of that in Sienna. On the square there, and my son actually stole my, the ragu, and and then he said, this is wonderful dad. So I he didn't he only smelled the wine, but he he enjoyed the ragu. Oh, that's a great one. What about anything else? Any other Yeah, to be honest. I actually really was. It was last year. I was in Valdo Bialdene in in the north. So we're going back to the north now, trying SECo DOCG, Vialdene. And for me, shellfish and Prosecco, are an absolute winning combination, especially when you go to DOCG levels. So from Valdo Galleliano, this region here, the wines are just a bit more focused and a bit more precise And for me, what beautifully well with shellfish. I'm a huge fan of good prossecco with good shellfish, I think he's the wonderful pairing. Oh, that's a great idea. A great combination. I'm thinking of those Vongeli Verachi from the Venetian lagoon, for example. Well, one more, I actually love and a fellow wine communicator, Adriano, works for Cantina social. He got me into this. And it's just an afternoon, charcuterie board, and just a bottle of, Muscardo de Esti. I'm a big fan of of that of a a Friday afternoons. That might be my Friday afternoon drink. Oh, that's an interesting one, Brad. I never would have thought of that. Muscatatadasti is such a delightful refreshing. It's the only wine that actually tastes as if you've taken a handful of grapes and squeezed them in your hand and and you're drinking that fragrance. Absolutely. And what's wonderfully well with that sweetness and acidity and works so well with different flavors and the saltiness of the meat and some cheese, and just the conversation. It's just a delightful wine on a sunny day with a choccoachary board and a bottle of muscatarazdi. I'm I'm all over that on a a Friday, paratheva. Oh my goodness. I'm going to have to give that a crack, bro. That sounds a really nice way to spin out. And in fact, today's Friday, isn't it? It is indeed. That's a good idea. So, Brad, what's next for you? For me, I see all this wonderful content, this content in concise bits in the reels, in the videos. And I'm a book writer. I work in a longer format, and I would like to see some of this repurposed in a way that, you know, you can make more permanent. Is that something that you would like to do, or is that not really the focus or important for you? I I in the future, Mark, that might be a road I'd like to go down. I think at the moment, I'm so busy with the content that I'm trying to create now, and it is short and sharp. And snappy and educational, but just it gets it out there. I've got some bigger projects working with regional bodies and country bodies as well coming up, which will hopefully take those long form aspects, and people can actually see a longer piece of content, which I'm really looking forward to. So that's coming in the future. But I think at the moment, I think it's more of these short sharp snappy. I'm off to Tuscany again in October, Piamonte to talk old vines in November. And obviously a different country. I'm off to rio her this month to talk about some old vines there. So, yeah, I'm I'm really busy, but, yeah, I think these long short form aspects of communication is where I'll be for the for the foreseeable future. Well, I like it. As I say, it's a format that is relatively new to me. I'm as I say, I've come from a different, a different background, but I really like it. I'm really impressed with how much communication, how much knowledge, how much expertise and how much entertainment, which is also important, can be achieved within this format. So I wish you all the best as you carry on with this. Brad, we last met, actually, here in Devon, just down the road from where I live here in Topsham on the X, we were at Limston Manor for an extraordinary afternoon helping Michael Caines to determine the dosage levels for the Limston Manor State Classic, which will be released next month. English wine has been incredible over the last decade as perhaps climate change definitely. But just the evolution of English wine. It's been very exciting, hasn't it? Totally, Mark. It's it's actually another one of my passions, and luckily, I live in the UK, and I'm from London, but the equality levels over the last five years have shot up. And it was the one GB trade tasting on Tuesday here in London. And again, the level of quality, sparkling wine, yes, but actually now still wines. You mentioned climate change. Yes, it's benefiting producers here, and you can see that the quality of the steel wines are improving extra mentally, but it's the sparkling wine still on a world level, compete with champagne, franger quarter, and some of the best sparkling wines of the world. So, yes, that was a wonderful day, and Michael's a good friend of yours and a friend of mine and amazing to be able to be there when they're doing these Doshards trials, how much sugar are they putting in the sparkling wine? It's absolutely fantastic to see first hand? Well, actually, what was fascinating, Brad, I think we sampled seven different dosage, and there was only a single gram difference per liter in the dosage, and it made such a difference. It it really is incredible that obviously, we're not winemakers, Mark. We get we're lucky. We get to talk to them and be around them. But actually, to see it firsthand, it was fascinating. And, actually, just gives you another jolt of, wow, there's so much more I could learn and be involved with It was. Yeah. Absolutely. And it was great to have James and Sarah from Lim Bay winery there explaining things alongside Michael too. That was a great experience. For me, it's actually talking to communicators from around the world, Italy, in particular, very interested in English wine, British wine, in effect, to what's the future and what's it gonna be like in another ten years because the directory has just gone through the roof. So it's super exciting, Mark, and I know we can talk more about English wine maybe another time. Yes. That's that would be good. Brad, I don't know where we'll next meet, but I'm sure it'll be over a good glass or two of something exciting to sample. I look forward to it. Always, Mark. Always great to talk to you. A pleasure. In the meantime, thanks so much for meeting my guest today. I really enjoyed catching up with you, and I hope we meet up soon. See you soon, Mark. Thanks, Brad. Cheers. Bye. Bye bye. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here. Or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time.