Ep. 1744 Francesca Vajra | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian wine Geeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian Grapeake journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at Italianpodcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialties that pair naturally with their wines, and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us. And I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it's my great pleasure to travel to the Barolo winehills of the Langa in Piamante. To meet my guest Francesca Vaira from the renowned g d Vaira winery located just outside of Barolo itself. Well, Jordan, Franchesca. Thanks so much for being my guest today. How are you? And is it a beautiful day in Langa? It's a fantastic day, even better because, of this talk with you, Mark. Thank you for your introduction. And, it's absolutely a joy to be here and, and to share this postcard with you. Well, I'm really excited to, have our conversation. But to give our listeners a vivid impression of of where you are. And I I can picture it myself because it is such a magical place. Can you describe where you are in the wine hills of Barolo? Because it is such a special wine zone. Yes. We I feel always very grateful and blessed if I have to say the truth about the place I born in, where I do live. We are in Barolo. We are actually in the upper part of the village of Barolo. But it is a place that many people know because of the wine. Indeed, it's a super, super small place in the world. We are on the western region of, the Barolo Village as well as the Barolo production area. What does it mean? We are living in, in our winery space, in Brico de La Violle, which among the historical crew of the Barolo production area has always been the highest in the western, of those crew. With the standing on Brico Delviole allowed you to to see the alps, arising from, with the LP liguri and then the Meritime and then decops it. So the, actually, the very first, the three sectors of the output, the liguri, as the name say, they divide the piedmont in the area. So everything you see from in front view and then going, to your left, is actually the barolo production area. So you will be able to see the village of Novello, the village of Montorte, the village but then then if you look on the other way, you really see these beautiful, mountains. So on the opposite, the biggest point we do see from the winery is called Monviso, is a magic mountain. I grew up, having the Monviso in my heart and in my eyes, and, I realized growing up that I could not live without it. In between us and the outside, we do have, the the beginning of the Panura Padana. So this actually impacted beautifully the microclimate of the area. So being a bit higher in elevation, we always enjoy, a beautiful ventilation, which is key. It means that, it's never too humid in summertime, neither in wintertime. This is actually explaining according to somebody, the name of the Hamlet where we do live, which is, quite a strong name. It's called Verne. And according to somebody, belongs from this idea of Vernar, So people say that, the Latins, they used to trade along the river, which is, running all around Barolo production area. The rivers start south. It go up north, and it turned its way of flowing from west into east. So it's exactly the opposite if we think of the of the main rivers in France, especially whenever we talk of wine makings and, and rivers. And, this river almost create like a ninety degree corner which represent in order west side of the broader production area. And, apparently, the people used to trade along this river. The major town of the area is called Alba. Was founded by the Latine. The name was Alba Pompeo. But then we do have a Kerasco, which is another beautiful and precious gem. Quite the things if we talk about, food, because of chocolate and alcohol because of nails. And, Kerasco takes his name because it was a castro, a military camp. In between, we have Poland's word, university, created by slow food, is based in, and anyway, blood used to trade along the river, but were smart people. They did not want to live too close to the river, which means too much humidity. And also in terms of farming, yes, it means a a great opportunity to have access to the water, but then also the risk of frost. And so they used to move up on the hills where my family, is living. We we have a quite special surname. Our surname historically is carrying the j. We always wonder where the family was coming from because the j is a bit different, let's say, sound and letter into the Italian alphabet. We don't really know, but we know that, we are him Barolo, and we are in Brico de Riviole since, the sixteen hundreds. So we are deeply rooted here. Well, that's a absolutely brilliant description, both of the area, but you've not just given a vivid picture of I'm imagining the Alps are snow covered now. That Monviso, that pointed mountain, very distinctive mountain is is, covered in snow. Is that right? So, yeah, we have a little little little bit of snow, indeed, yesterday night. And this morning, we have such a warm air. It's quite impressive. People say that, I mean, weather forecast expect a, a lot of snowstorms. We can wait to have snows that actually as you as you might know, we had, twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. It's been very dry vintages in the ring the region. Whenever we talk about Vatolo, we are talking about dry farming. So what does it mean is, is that we really, belong, somehow to to the snow. It's not a surprise whenever you travel and you drive around Barolo area, that there are so many little chapel dedicated to the holy mary of the snow. Somehow we realized why so many churches because people were really begging the holy Mary, in this Catholic, tradition we do have in the region, to receive a lot of snow through the wind into in during the wintertime. The most part of soil we do have in the area is clay. Having the snow means that the snow is melting little by little. And this is giving time to the clay to absorb the water. And this is gonna be the water that's the roots of the vines are gonna steal, out of the clay later in the season. So because of this lack of water, because of this lack of snow, mainly, yeah, we wish we're gonna have a lot of snow. There is also a way of saying which you might have heard that spending so much time in Italy. In the this, these expressions say that the weather is gonna take place the day of Santa Viviana, which is a December the fourth is gonna be, extending basically for the most part. Definitely the very first part of the winter. What happened on December fourth this year? I was not at the winery, so I I was, I was a brother, but I called my dad and say, hey, how's the weather over there? And they told me it's amazing here. It's sunny and he's nice. I say, okay. Maybe not so much skin and dizzy. This is Right. Yeah. But we will see. We will see. I mean, the season is very long. I can say I love this job because, I keep being amazed by nature and his, energy and, and the fact that so whenever you think Things are lost. They are never lost. Something amazing always, happen almost as a caress. Okay. Now, Franchesca, g d Viira is totally a family enterprise. Your parents, Aldo and Milena, speak of their immense pride, that you are a team, but first of all, you're a family. So tell us the story of your family wine estate and introduce us to your family. Introduce us to the squadra. Look, Mark. Whenever I have to talk about my family, and whenever I'm traveling, because this is actually a little bit of my job to be somehow the the face, the front woman, let's say that, of our family and team, I wish I could've pick and bring everybody in my luggage. So to let everybody to know each of the member of the family. I have to say it's, it's a quite a special family. My my father my father, family. So my grandparents, Josepe and Francesca, they they both born in this hamlet of the village of Barolo, saw a venue. And, soon after the second word war, they have they moved into the town of Torino. And being somehow, some of the very first people moving day there, they've been in charge of helping their friends and the kids, their friends, to find a job to find a house in Torino. I don't know how many people really know the story of Barolo because whenever you come right now, you can see a place of wealth. You can see a place of culture. You know, people are traveling a lot, in our area, and people from all over the world, they travel to the area. So This from a cultural point of view, it's extremely enriching. And, this is also impacting the food scenes and, how the restaurants have been changed in thirty years. But back in time to to move into the city was actually the only way to to let your family survive. It's been, especially my my family always told me that, in between the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties, we had ten years in a row, in the region of Barolo, of a awful weather, mainly, impact by hailstorms. And as you will know, whenever a hailstorm comes, there is really nothing you can do. I whatever you see the sky getting dark, and I can smell the, the smell of the hail getting closer, the feeling is to run into the vines and raise the vines and and protect them. And then the moment you you paint yourself already in the vineyard, so you realize that, with one arm as much long as they can be, you wouldn't be able to protect not even one entire mind. You know? So you always feel so small, in front of the of the hailstorm, and I think this is what is keeping our family extremely humble in what, in what we do. But well, in such, poor background, economically, also consider that, tractors arriving in the plane ten years ahead that, the ones have been designed for the for the hills. So all the work was absolutely manual. Here. Somehow enough the second word word city seems to be the biggest attraction. So my grandparents moved there. They got five kids. My father is the mid one. He has two older sisters, two younger brothers. And since the moment he had to choose for high school, His desire was to study agriculture and, more specifically, by growing. Why so? It's true that he grew up in the city, but yet his grandparents of both the families were into the countryside. And he always, so his grandparents around you know, either Christmas time or Easter time or Sundays or, you know, he grew up with this idea that was a very tough work, being into farming because very physically hard, but there was a six days a week and Sundays were Sunday, so we had this image of his grandparents, white shirts, around the table, a lot of great food, good wines, and and everything. And, so Little Valito probably had this idea that's a that could be the coolest job He was willing to work hard for six days a week. He was willing to work hard for nine months in a year because the three months is winter in wintertime. They use a parley to have a lot of snow. So he somehow paint himself to stay to spend these days in winter time to just get out, maybe break two piece of wood put into the fireplace and then spending his time to read and, research and, keep improving his, wines and his, his knowledge about the area and the farming and everything. My grandparents, of course, saw this idea as, I mean, that was not even an option to consider because, you were farmers back in the sixties if you were not skilled enough to to do a step ahead into the social letter. So whenever you had the you were coming from different backgrounds, why why being a farmer. So they did not allow him to to study Viticulture at high school. And, that was studying in Toronto in nineteen sixty eight, took place. It was, quite intense in that town. And there was a moment my grandparents, they actually realized that, probably, it was a good idea to send my father into the countryside to spend the whole summertime. And into their eyes in mind that was a win win project because it will show my dad the Beena farmer was absolutely not cool. It will, keep my dad far away from travels, and it will show the other siblings that if anybody want to be involved into the revolution, the only revolution for them was to grab a, who, and work the soil. This things did not really happen. At the end of the summer, my father went back to his parents and, and basically told them I realized being a vine grower, this is really what I wanna do. The same year, the older sharecropper, my grandparents actually, they move into the bigger town, but my grandfather always kept the family house, which always have, also beautiful name. It's always being called La Caschina. So with the article, so the farmhouse. So that is already telling about how special that unity of land and that house where. So he always kept that, and he had this cropper was living there and was taking care of the fields and everything. So the guy decided to retire. We're at the end of sharecropping system. So if any of his kids wanted to keep on, this, this system, the system could be care in between generations. But since none of his kids wanted to be, sharecropper anymore, then my grandfather had to choose in between, renting the property or hiring somebody. And they decided to entrust my dad, who started to take care of the expectation of the family at the age of fifteen. So it was a extremely young He was a city guy. He actually has been the city guy for a long time in, entities. And, so age of fifteen, my dad started. He started to take care of an expectation that was, seven actors. Which only zero point four were vineyards. Franchesca, what what year was this roughly? Nineteen sixty eight. Okay. That was versus the end of his, career at a high school. After that, he he finished, he decided to go for agriculture. He is agronomy, says his background, and agronomy back in time was really a vision three hundred sixty degrees. So he has been educated on vineyards by making, but as well as cattle and, and little animals and pastries and grains. And so his vision has always been, very complete. In nineteen sixty one, Data certifies, production organic. He has been the very first producer to Bang Grower to certify his production in the entire region of Piamonte. In nineteen seventy two, another tough, vintage hit the area, his family always sold the the fruit. My daughter was a student. So till that moment, he was farming and, taking care of picking the fruit and selling. In nineteen sixty two, the the people who used to sell his fruit were were not interesting in, purchase in the fruit in, and then versus the end of the season when it was time really to pick the grapes, they were offering such a ridiculous amount of money. So we joke with dad. He's nineteen sixty eight. He's a revolution. Actually took place, four years later in nineteen seventy two. When he refused himself to sell his fruit for nothing, and, my grandparents didn't really, let's say, understood at first. This, this vision. When my dad, my dad had to prove him and show him the data, he he could not be support. He was not supported by his family in, at the time of the picking, so he had to hire people. He knew exactly how much was costing to hire the people and how much money they will be able, how much, grapes they will be able to pick. And so to do calculation for him, that has been extremely easy. And, what this calculation proves that the cost of the picking was actually higher then the amount of money, they will get, selling the same amount of fruit. So that was simply a net loss on picking. And, when my grandpa saw that, understood a bit as a challenge, look at my data and say, okay, if you think you can do better, do it by yourself. And he just gave him the money to buy the very first distem machine, the very first press and his very first, cask. Three years ago, we have been able to rebuy, this very first press, and, it's been a beautiful moment because my dad asked my brothers and I say, hey, the old guy to who I sold my very first press, finally, came yesterday and ask and ask if, we want if we are interested in buying that again. That's amazing story. Franchesca, I'm I I think it's really important for our listeners to understand this picture that you've given so vividly that although Brolo is one of the most famous wines in the world now, a wine that attracts people to the area to alba during the truffle season to taste the foods, to taste these magnificent wines. And though Barolo itself has a history, modern barolo going back to cavour and to Carlo Alberto. The story of this renaissance of a wine zone is actually very recent. And your father was really at the start of this renaissance of Barolo, and now, you know, there's so many fine producers in this small area, but going back forty, fifty years ago, it wasn't like that. It it the name wasn't yet around the world as it is now. Indeed. But, these things always amaze me a lot, but, when I look at my data and I look, to many other people of his generation, what I see are people that, had a great desire to prove themselves, were people that, if they decided to stay or Like in my dad, it was actually the only one to go back to being a farmer somehow having way more opportunities in life. As people were looking at him, back in time, well, where people love the place, who were hard workers and wanted to share the beauty they discovered themselves with the other people. In, this is the great energy. And those are the people of Piamante. Most part of the time, very humble, very low profile. But our workers and with a huge art. Yes. So tell us now about you and your brothers are working with your mother and father still. Tell us about your team. Sure. So my dad, this beautiful ideas and, and great vision. When he met my mom, I always, paint the two of them a little bit as, my mom being, the the gazza on the on the fire. And, the foil of the fire. So my whenever my dad met my mom and felt support by hair, that has been really, incredible moment because everything is vital nowadays. It's something that was being built and projected by my dad and, supported by my mom, but the two of them, they starting from the scratch. Also starting from family who did not approve them to do that. So they had a a tough begin that's, that is not a, a secret. But together, they make something amazing. And together, they've been able as parts to despite the fatigue, despite the, you know, the tough time, you know, when the health rooms arrive and many other things that can happen in our job, but we always saw parents happy with their job. And I think this is the reason why Giuseppe, my older brother, then myself, then our younger brother is Idodo. One after the other, we understood that, we love this job. So even if it was the kind of job that was not, allowing us to have, say, classic parents, parents, they take you out on Saturdays. Like, we we we didn't mean to renounce about but, it's so beautiful to be together. And myself, what I can tell you is that the same, love for farming, I see that into my younger brother. He's daughter, the same desire of research and perfection. I can see it to in into Giuseppe. So Let's say that also the DNA of my family is about a lot of research, but that they created the and did a lot of master selection, with the phrase upgrade. We don't check those. Those are grapes that have been lost through the years just to be focused on But we love them, and this is a big commitment to my family to keep farming. And so is a serious biodiversity within the property, despite the fight with our we are buying growers. In before you were talking about, you know, modern barolo, we did a lot of research about, how people used to enjoy Nebiolo before Biolo was invented. And that's how Clari JC has been has been discovered. And, that's something we really, really love next time. And the first time, we're gonna meet in person, Mark, to to show to you because in term of gastronomy, this old version of minifying the viola, which was the way that people used from at least from the sixteen hundred until nineteen sixties, which is a way lighter style. You can almost paint out as a pet net. Version of Nibialo, something that if you compare to Dibialo, as we do know nowadays is absolutely opposite. But there are two wines that on the table are amazing, complimentary to to each other. So It's, it's all of us working together here. One of my sister-in-law is working with us as well. And, and then we are supported by Nabilisima Squadra, as you said, is a is a beautiful team. And, they share our values and, he's keeping improving together with us. Well, that's a wonderful story and a wonderful Doria family above all. And of a belief by going with your father in the land itself, the land. I guess he must have really realized at that young age of fifteen that this isn't just farming. It's there's a capacity here to be able to make great wine, not just good wine, but great wine. He always had this vision to make wines that could talk. To the heart of the people in what our wines since they zero aim to be is not, to surprise. Actually, that's safe for quite some years, he wanted to make the most amazing wines, and then he realized that the more challenging and the more desire for him for his wine was to touch their the heart of the people and to be, ambassadors, so to carry a sense of place and all the characteristic of the varietal. So Even if they're through these postcards, people cannot see the area. I wish that drinking a glass of a vita wines, they will be able to taste, to imagine, and to be in the area. I, I think you're giving such a vivid description of both the place and of your family commitment that I'm sure that that people will taste this in your wines. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. And let's turn to just a few of your wines because we don't have a great deal of time here. I'd like to first talk about a white wine, which I was curious to read about Your language reasoning. I've never had a reasoning from language before. How did this come about and tell us about this wine before we talk about some of your reds? Bringing riesling in Piamonte has been, shocked for the area. My daughter fall in love with this varietal when he was writing and studying for his test at university. He did his university with this professor of microbiology. Was, an anabela Gandini is, is a he's still alive. He's a very old folks right now, but, there's been somebody who really touched my data heart as a professor. And so he badly wanted to do his tests at university with him. So when, he went to this professor, professor Gandini told my dad to say, mister Vaira, I know you will be more interested in doing a test's own red wines because my dad was already farming and winemaking back in time. But, actually, I'm currently working on, on white grapes. So if you want, then we can talk. We can do you can do the research on, malolactic fermentations in white wines in Pumonte. And people were talking about two grapes. They were talking of Erbalooche, so caluso, and they were talking of Cortese from gabi. The third grape was Moscato, but of course, to do a malathic fermentation of Moscato is, I mean, is not to, let's say, like, the very first connection you will create among this grape and, this kind of unification. But the best part of the literature, the most interesting and the most advanced was actually coming either from France or from Germany. And the word recently was keeping coming over and over again until my dad apparently found like a old bottle into his grandfather's cellar, I let you mention those, gothic characters. My my grandpa was, seventeen years old when the second world war ended. So, this, gothic character to him, not really like a pleasant vibe, for me. And, and so when my father asked if he coulda had that bottle, my grandfather would say, yes. Absolutely. Just take away. My dad started to open the very first bottle of riesling, then he had access to other older bottle riesling. And what it was a surprising him was this aromatics into evolution. Whenever we talk about all the riesling, we use the word hydrocarbs. And we never people talk about all the barolo. In the region, we don't even use Italian word. We use the French word. We talk of cudron, but Goodrone is nothing but tar. And if you think whenever you are, working on with the oil, tar and gasoline tar and hydrocarbs is exactly part of the same family. So you had this vision that a red wine coming from Pemonte, a white wine coming from Germany. Two regions that historically had no connection, but somehow they could find like a midpoint. And that's how you had to desire a little bit as a white flag in Barolo. To to plant in a vineyard where he found a lot of sandy soil. This very first line of, brine Bizzling. We do have two vineyards. One is based on, climate selection coming from the Geism University. Then we have another vineyards where we had the the joy to plant some vines coming from, Masal Dais and Oscar Daga in, Ringstrat von Mul. So, friends from other parts of the world, and as you well know, a bit like talking about chef sharing the recipe. You will never share a recipe, to another chef unless you have a full trust of that person, and you will never share a bind to another bind roller and then unless you have a full trust. So He started to plant his vinyl riesling. He has been the very first one. Now there are over, I guess, forty producer farming riesling into the Barolo production area, in Lancar region, and then, that's opened up a a new trend in the in the area. That's an amazing story. And what I particularly like about that is that that connection in the evolution of both Barolo and riesling, that sort of petrally notes you get on aged riesling. And the and as you say, the tari characteristic that can emerge from Barolla with time. To make that connection between the white and the red is absolutely fascinating. We don't have a great deal of time, but I do want to both talk about Dolceto and Barbata as well as your Barolo wines. So briefly tell us a little bit if we can, about, as you say, these great varieties that are equally important in many ways as Nebula and very much a part of the culture of Lalanga. Yeah. You're attaching, like, a very special point, Mark, unfortunately. I grew up in a in a special family as you already understood, and, my dad always had a vision that, the different graves of the region. So, Elceto, Merbera Nipiolo, he always compared to my brothers and I, and he always had this vision that as a parent, you cannot make ranking in between your kids. The moment you're gonna make ranking, you're gonna screw completely the education, you're gonna completely screw your family. But you as a father, you as a parent, your role is about understanding the unicity, and let every single grape to show is best. So this is actually a big challenge because whenever you work this way, there is no, like, a priority in the cellar whenever it's time to recommend. But the priority is to see really what is the priority among all of them. And so to spend the same care on a Dolce Tovat as well as a Nipulovat on a Barbera vineyard as well as a Nipulovir. We have some special wine hour range. We love to give an an idea through our classic wine. So the classic dulceto verbera in the longue de Nuello, as pictures of the grape, all of them are made with plants are, let's say, to from ten to twenty years old bind. So they already give a beautiful structure, but they are white, spinafine stainless steel, beautiful way to be introduced to the parietals. But then we have a somewhat special, and the special touch is the age of the bind. So we do make a costa infosati Dolceto, which is a crazy, selection. In two thousand twenty two, if you can put your hands on one of those bottles, and when you see the prices, it's almost a shock. We need all the fruit of two vines. Of Dolcektor planted in crewe bravo to make one bottle of that wine. And it's one of the few double check you can actually age. And, right now, people don't think Dolcektor is a cool wine, but whenever it comes to food in our region, whenever you think of the pasta, whenever you think of the veggies, whenever you think of the soups, but also the poultry, is a rock star. Also, whenever you think of, truffles, you know, we tend to pair truffles with eight and aged the barolo, old barolo, perfect in term of aromatics as comparison. But if you shave your truffle on a cheese padu or if you shave your truffles on a, plate of tairines or the local pasta, a good Dolcektor is actually killer. So something to to discover. For the Burbera, we also have a old vines Barbera. And, this is actually goes under, let's say, more technical name Barbera superiore. It says his name is Viola Deliviole. Historically, the very first vineyard was planted in Rico delliviole. And it's one of those Barbera that we do say in few months in battle agents. So whenever you have the opportunity to drink a barbera of twenty, even thirty years, in a blind test, you will get confused and think it's a barolo, then to say how close they can get those grapes. And then whenever we talk about a barolo and Nipiolo, yes, we love to give voice to the different, the different vineyards And, the cool thing is that whenever you drink, Barro, obrico della, then you compare it to a costa de roce, and then you compare it to Rivera and state, which is part of Vaira, but it's based in Setera, so Cheretta and Baudana vineyards. You can see that the care is the same, the wine making is the same, and what is singing to the glass is the unicity of every single spot of land. Oh, those are beautiful descriptions too of grapes that are So important in the heart of the people in, longer. Now let's talk about your borola wines. Let's talk about, Brico de la viollet because this is the heart of the estate, isn't it? I would say. Yeah. People always tend to look for flagship wines more than calling that way. Yes. The heart is actually a beautiful expression. And I also will add to probably is the wine that designed the style of the company because for the microclimate, also for the age of the vines right now, Rico deliveris made with plants are basically from forty to ninety years old. So it means a lot of consistency from one vintage to the other, but also a lot of structure. Through a lot of finesse. Well, Brico Deliva is the one that designed the style. I can paint my dad, with his, at very first, with his desire to make something astonishing. Looking at Rico dellivioli is, a place that is a piece of white paper, whenever where you could draw whatever you want. And then actually realizing that that was not just a piece of paper, but was more like a filigraine, you know, a piece of paper that has a train, that has a structure. And so his desire changing and turning into the desire to let everybody to notice this immicity of that piece a white paper. And so it's actually the wider train as to be even more gentle, to even to be even more delicate. And so that allowed us to approach to every single other single vineyards as well to every single wine would you make with the same care and finesse in, in precision at the same time. That's, again, as much a a description of the wine is of your philosophy and of your approach to winemaking, and I think probably to living as well. Francesca, I'd like to turn now to the gastronomy of Lalanga in relation to your wines because it's so rich and delicious and such a grand and eloquent cuisine that is also very humble and a really a fitting partner to the great wines of the area. So can you perhaps explain the foods you love best, the foods that are part of your heart? The foods that are part of your family, the foods that you'll be eating, in these weeks to come and the wines that go so well with them. So I think that, definitely like a strength in Piamonte are appetizers. As well as, pasta courses. Then whenever we talk about main courses, maybe because I'm not a huge fan of meats, but, yes, we have something like more, like, assume it, but also like poultry. This is gonna be the season for other two special, into into both the category. One is gonna be the, people love to make And that was actually a tradition in my family for the twenty five night. So after the big lunch, yet, our granny, Nona Franchesca, was inviting everybody just to have a little cap of broth. And, and, of course, the couple of, tortellini were inside, and, and then the meats that were coming after. And whenever we talk about poultry is, Katon Magro. And, so, like, definitely a, like, a a richer kind of, of, I could say, like, a, gando, like a cocker, I guess. Yeah. Yep. But then, yes, appetizer pasta, a lot of pasta in our in our tradition, and then quite a good amount of desserts. So, let's say starting from the end, a super classic, you see, it's not cake, together with Sabayone, and, in Moscow. And, the sec the secret is, in our way of making Savayane. I would say, old Italy is put in a little drop, a little sip of a marsala. But, actually, when you're whipping the the red of the yolk together with the with the sugar and you're ready, buny. And so when you're starting to get fluffy, this tradition is to open Moscato and to put some fresh muscato inside. So to make way lighter, and, and fresher. Oh, wonderful. This is something to definitely to discover. Definitely not the lightest, probably the most, I will set it to the most energetic side, of the whole. Then appetizer is historically the most part of appetizer, they're pairing with El Chettos. We do have a lot of backing into our appetizers. I'm thinking of the Jardinera, I'm thinking of, in Salatarusa, In often, there is also, there are also acts, pair with that. So there's always this kind of like, grisiness, related to the eggs, mayonnaise, in the tenants of Dolceto, they match with that in a fantastic way. So this is also the secret whenever we talk of pasta. Sure thing. It's Christmas time. So the pasta is not a plain pasta unless you you toss it with a a ton of butter and and white truffles on the top, then people love to make a the classic ragu. Usually we tend to put also a little bit of a sa sita. It's a sa sitri bla. So he's giving a bit of a extra bite and, the pungent, but very gentle tones of the of the black pepper. What about the onion lot? I'll clean. Those are dangers. I have to tell Mark, I am fully I don't have as much time as I wish to spend in kitchen and make a food. So I have some good suppliers of Anulotti, in the region. And anytime I go myself to buy Anulotti, I have to put in the track of my car. Otherwise, I will eat them as potato chips from the back before I ride home. So I love them badly. Every family makes a slightly different manner, but it's not uncommon to have, to have different kind of meats. It's fun because now we see, super fancy meals. So the homemade pasta, italian, they are made with the forty yolks. And, the annual lots of the plain are made with the three different kind of, three different meats roasted. And, indeed, those were the poor dishes. Those were the little bit leftovers of, the meats, maybe from Sundays and work with a lot of decades, to create the filling of the of the passes. I I love our tradition because being so humble, has been able to to to be so modern and to be to talk to to the heart and the the mouth of the people still nowadays. And then whenever you are in the area, it's fantastic because, yes, it's you will find a carne include a vitego to Nato, and you're lucky to be in in every single restroom, but every every single chef is gonna make his own way. So It's always a good insight to me to order, like, a dish of, Vitelo to see how the people are working. And the tradition is changing a lot. We were talking about that before. Consider how technology has impacted whenever we talk about Vitelotonato, we are talking of mayonnaise. But back in time, people have no fridge. So I let you imagine the risk of being poisoned. So the tradition, the old tradition in making, Vitelotonato is actually completely different from what people most part of the time can, can eat. Somebody say that it's called donato because the the meat was cooked for so long time, was completely gray inside. Maybe not so nice looking as, what you can see nowadays. And people were taking the pieces of meat that were falling apart through the cooking with the oil of the cooking and working them with the capers and anchovies and hard boiled egg. So also this tradition change, and, and I think there is so much discover about the past, of many, many dishes of the region. Well, that's that's another fascinating story. Francesca and what I think is really important for our listeners to understand is so many people come to Alba now for the great food and the great wines, but the way you describe the origins of your wine estate of Vaira from the the humble origins after the war and really making something great at difficult times. And similarly, the cuisine of Langa has the same humble origins. Even the tartufo, one of the most expensive foods that one can buy anywhere in the world was a humble food that crafty people who knew where to find them could with the use of dogs would be able to find. And now it's become something that is sent to New York or to Tokyo. You know, and it it it exorbitant cost. But basically, it was something that people that with the knowledge of the land, of the intimate knowledge of the land could find for themselves at times when when food was scarce, So I think that's so interesting to trace that evolution of this wonderful cuisine, one of the greatest cuisines in Italy, to accompany wines that are truly world class as well. Yeah, Mark. I just want to make his smile. I don't know if you ever heard, but back in time, people were making salad with the truffles. So shaving them and just put a bit of oil and and salt. Wow. So can you imagine to order a salad That's nowadays. Amazing. That is incredible. Franchesca, final, question I'd like to talk about is hospitality, wine, hospitality, Avaya, and can our listeners. I I'm sure after this wonderful conversation that our listeners who are located all around the world, can they visit you? Can they discover what Vira is and your wines? Yes. Absolutely. This has always been part of the DNA. It's a very simple and, and yet to handle hospitality. So do not imagine to to see roller coasters or, other things. But, the the desire to do hospitality data has always been about, helping people to know better what there is behind a bottle of wine. I try I try to do it today. But the the doors of our winery are always open to to people who love wine. And, and we always love with, you know, as you can easily imagine, people come to the area because of the role of the two camps to the area because of truffles, but we always love to open them the eyes to other less known things, like the story of Fraser, which we didn't talk today. But end up being one of the kids of Nubiolo, or one of the parents according to somebody else and to rediscover the beauty of Dolceto. And, so yes, absolutely. We also have some special stainless windows in the winery. They're really, really worth to to be seen. So whenever you're booking your your experience, you're contacting us, to to come and visit us, I would highly suggest to come, in the morning or early in the afternoon. So you can really enjoy this, those windows and, how did you impact our everyday word? This I I've seen the beautiful colors. They look absolutely stunning and, really unique. Franchesca, Thank you so much for taking the time to be my guest today. I know it's a busy time, but it's been such a pleasure talking to you. You've transported us all to a very magical and special world, but also to a very magical family. You've talked so lovingly about the work that you all do together about the origins of the Vita State, and I'm really eager to visit and to meet you myself. So I hope we can meet in two thousand twenty four. But in the meantime, thank you so much. So thank you very much for this opportunity to share Piamonte, to share our land and our love for for that. In a bubble, thank you for your love for wine and food and your desire to share that with people because this is something that I definitely learned from wine. The best people in wine are the people they are sharing people. And, and this is what you're doing through this podcast, and, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you, Francesca. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time.