Ep. 1891 Giulia Castagner | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book. My Italian Grapeake journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at Italianpodcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to Venetel, to the province of Treviso North of Venice and to the slopes of the Corneliana Wine Hills to meet my guest, Julia Castenier, who will tell us a fascinating story of her family, distilleria Castenier. Juan Jordan or Julia. How are you today? Is it a beautiful day? Actually, finally, it's a beautiful day. I'm visiting Milan today because I live between Treviso and Milano and the sun is out. So it's a great day. I'm honored to be here. So thank you for having me. Oh, we're very, very honored to have you with us. We're very pleased to learn the story of, Castenier, and I know it's a busy time for you. I know that Vin Italy is just around the corner a few days from now, and you're going to be there. And I know that there's going to be a very special master class taking place on Tuesday, April sixteenth. And I look forward to hearing more about that and to talking about that. So so, Julia, let's get started. You're between the Adriatic sea and the dolomites north of Venice in a very beautiful area. For our listeners, can you describe to me where you are? What the countryside looks like? The weather so that we can transport our listeners to Italy wherever in the world they may be because our listeners come from all around the world. Right. So as you said, we are, sixty kilometers away from Venice And, literally, steps from the famous prosaico in Corneliano. The weather is, always, I would say, always nice there. It's warm. And, our land is historically devoted wine and grappa making. So you have to make sure you come visit us because it's a beautiful, beautiful area. Yeah. It's a really, really beautiful area. The pro prossecco Corneliano Valdo Valde Wine Hills are UNESCO sited And, they are some of the most beautiful wine lands in the world. And, of course, you've got the mountains, the dolomites, rising behind. And you're not far from the sea. So it's a pretty, pretty ideal place to be, Julia. Did you grow up there? I grew up there, then I moved to Milano, where I where I went to college, and then I went back there. But, you know, it's it's beautiful to live there because it's very a human sized city. So and, the landscape, as you said. It's beautiful. We are, like, forty five minutes from the seaside and one hour and a half to from, the dolomites. So it's a very enjoyable. It's a beautiful place to stay. Okay. And it's where your family began the distilleria Castania. Yeah. Can you tell us the story of how how your family business began. The story of your father and and the work he created. Yeah. So my dad, first off, is an analogist, he studied in the prestigious psychological school of Coneliano that you've probably heard of. When he got the diploma, he started his career by chance in a distillery. I said by chance because he wanted to be a winemaker. But he applied for a job in a distillery, a famous distillery in our area. And, he worked there for twenty years. He became a master distiller. We say master distillatorre. So he learned there. I'll produce Grapa. And in twenty years, he became the general manager of the company. Then in nineteen ninety six, he was in his forties. And he figured out that he had a different vision of of what Grampa could have been in the near future. So he was inspired by Konya. He always says that, and he decided to invest acquiring a distillery that was available on sale at that time. And, you know, to make his dream of innovating grappa come true. Nowadays, in less than thirty years, we are considered to be one of the most innovative grappa distillery And, of course, one of the biggest, since, we produce the thirteen per percent of the total amount of grappa distilled in Italy. My goodness. That's an enormous amount. Yeah. Yeah. That's So to give you graphite numbers to to give you an idea of the numbers. The total production is thirty million bottles. Okay. And we produce four million bottles of that thirty million bottles. Okay. Great. Now it's still very much a family business, isn't it? It is. It is. So with my my cousin, Carlo, and, my my brother, Giovanni, and my sister, Sylvia, I represent the the second generation of the family business. Actually, it was super easy for us to define and divide responsibility, because we were all interested in different aspects of the business. So I take care of sales and marketing. My sister is in charge of finance. My brother, takes care of, management control, and my cousin, Carlo takes care of the production because as my dad is, an analogist, and My dad is still our CEO. Okay. So that's great. A real family enterprise. Now let's let's talk about Grapa. And I'll tell you now, Julia, that I absolutely love Grapa. Especially age Grapa like Castaniller produce. So I'm excited to hear about how your family make it. Yeah. But I know that not everybody listening knows about Grapa or thinks that they like it. This is our chance to change their perceptions. Let's start right at the beginning. What is Grapa? Okay. So Grapa is a spirit made by distilling the grape skins. So the grapes key the grape skins is called pomas. According to European community law, grappa can be applied only to the spirit distill from Italian Pomas that that we said it's the grape skins within the Italian territory. So Grapa is only Italian. Okay. So Grapa is made from the Great Palmas. Just so our listeners are aware, that means that after the wine making process or in the case of white wines, the grapes are pressed. Right. And then the skin, the juice, the juice comes out, and you have this massive skins left over, or in the case of red wines after the maceration on the skins and the fermentation. Those wine drenched grape skins are brought to the distillery. Is that right? Right. Right. We collect the grape skins from the winemakers to de seal them and produce crop. Okay. And so in winemaking, grape varieties are very important. Are they very important for your? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. So we distill local varieties like Clara, which is the grape behind prosecco. We also distill international, like Merlo, Kev, and Pinenoa, cultivated in Italy, which are blended in our age. Cara. But we also distill San Jose and Pomas from grape cultivated in Montalcino, for our grandpa de Bernelo, or the farmers collected from wineries in valpolicella, for our Marona grappa. So it works pretty much like the wine. If you want to have a specific variety of grappa, you have to distill the grape varieties behind the wine. Okay. And just as in wine, the character of the grappa, is completely different depending on the grape varieties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. How does the distillation process go then? Can you explain that simply? I know it's a complicated process. Yeah. It's it's actually complicated. I'm not technician, but, I can tell you we both, we use both, pot steels and modern column of distillation based on the type of grappa that we want to obtain So, roughly, the column allows to select even the most delicate and, fruity and the flower aromas for super smooth and clear grata. On the other hand, the pot steels helps structure and complexity. So we use both, and we mix, grapha obtained with the two, method of production. But all of our grapha have the same modern and approachable style. Okay. So this is, an important distinction. The continuous stills, the column stills, combined with the pot stills, which need to be emptied after each distillation then. Okay. So very Right. Laborious artists and crafts as well. Yeah. Yeah. My dad invested a lot in, you know, innovative equipments because his dream was to create a a more approachable grab. So that's why we mixed Right. I understand. And grandpa is basically, vaporize or distillation is vaporizing the alcohol and then collecting it and knowing just the right amounts to collect neither the the heads or nor the tails, but just that middle cut of pure grappa. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Now, Judy, I know one thing that's very important for the castagnata grappa is aging. Now tell us a little bit about aging. Yeah. So, from the very beginning, my dad realized, I'm talking about thirty years ago back in nineteen ninety six. He realized that aging grappa in Barrick could have been the game changer. As I told you, He was inspired by Konya. Okay? So thirty years ago, Grapah was proposed only as a white spirit, but then the producers started to age eating wood, and my dad decided to invest in a from the the first year of when he founded the company. And he decided to age an increasing portion of his production in small hoke and Cherry barrels. So nowadays, we are proud to introduce our twenty years old that in my agenda in nineteen ninety eight. So we are thrilled about this, launch that will occur at Vineita VA this year. Okay. So this is a really important to extinction Julia. You talk about changing perceptions of Grapa. As you say, Grapa was primarily a white spirit, perhaps something a digestivo that one would have after the meal or even a cafe Coreto poured into in a and down very quickly, not Right. A premium spirit to savor and enjoy thoughtfully. So this is a something I think is important for our listeners to understand that they're very different styles of grappa, and it is a premium spirit that is on the level of cognac or single malt whiskey, for example. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. This is a good opportunity to discuss this master class tasting that will be taking place at Vin Italy on April sixteenth. Tell us about this. Yeah. So we, thought, to to in order to change the perception of grandpa, we thought it was useful to promote a comparison between Grata or rather between what Grata nowadays is and the the the more well known international brown spirits like Kanye and whiskey. So together with Stevie, we will attend this, master class, and we will try to highlight the different features between a twenty years old grandpa are twenty years old, over twenty years old, Kenya, and the the same aging of whiskey. So that that would be interesting because, sometimes people don't expect Rappa can be a premium spirit like it actually is today. Yes. I think that is that is a really fascinating, comparative tasting that will take place on April sixteenth. I think you're right to really emphasize these changing perceptions of grappa of how we interact with with spirits and enjoy them. But let's also turn to Grapa and the younger generation, and how younger people now are also discovering Grapa. Tell us about this. Yeah. So the thing is, young people in their, let's say, in their thirties, don't enjoy Krapa very much, even in Italy. Because they think Krapa is the harsh white spirit. Their grandfathers used to drink at the end of every meal. But they love to drink cocktails. Right? So probably the best way to make it up a more appealing to to young people is working with bartenders. To let them include Grappa among the spirits they use in their cocktails because when people try, a Grappa cocktail, they are always surprised. So probably the the best way to approach young people is is to let them try a grappa cocktail first. Can you give us some examples? What are some of your favorite grappa cocktails? Okay. I'm a negroni person, totally. So I love grappa classics, like a negroni made with grappa instead of gene or any kind of sour based on lemon or grapefruit. So that a grapefruit sour or a lemon sour with grappa works perfectly. But the amazing thing is, that in, back in, two thousand twenty, IBA, which is the international bartender association added the first grappa based cocktail in their official cocktail codification in the new era category. So that was an amazing change that will help us to communicate that grappa can work in cocktails. Was that a particular cocktail they included in that list? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The name is Vento, and it's a sour cocktail, with the honey and chamomile that work very well with grappa. You're gonna expect it to be made with grappa. So it's, surprising. Okay. You wouldn't use your twenty three year old grappa for making cocktails though. I I I would not. No. I would not. But we created a grappa. The name is Cas So it's, you know, like, a nickname of Castanier, and and it was specifically designed for cocktails for mixology. Okay. Because we we strongly believe, as I told you, that we need to design grappa specifically created for the use. So if you want to meet grappa E cocktail, it has to be very pure and clean. So we distilled this, eighty five percent prosaicco, Glapa. We distilled it five times, to make it super suitable for cocktails. Oh, that's really, really interesting. So tell us your recipe for the perfect Graza negroni made with castanier grappa. Yeah. Beautiful. So, you know, that negroni works at one third, spirit. And in the original recipe, there's one third gene. And you can substitute one third team with the one third grappa. Better, you know, my casta, Casa. And then you add one third vermouth and one third Peter. You can balance based to your taste, to your personal taste, but that your original recipe should be one third, one third, one third. Okay. Okay. No. It's a wonderful cocktail. With Jen, but I've never had it with your grappa. So I'm going to try try that. It's even smoother. Yeah. Because, you know, the gene has the that, like, perfume note, and it's, Okay. You know, it it has the gene note. Grapa in in a granny Mhmm. Absa, the the copter to be smoother. You have to try it. I make sure you will try it. Okay. I think that's really, important also to think. You know, we think of Grrapa as a digestivo. Right. A drink to have after a meal, but to bring grappa into with an aperitivo, for example, is a different way of looking at grappa. So I'm looking forward to trying that. I would like you to make me a negroni when we meet. I would love to. I would love to. Okay. And do you think that younger people are enjoying and and coming to appreciate and maybe also becoming connoisseurs and appreciating the Grapa, Baricata, the Grapa edged in wood. Yeah. My point is that first off, you have to approach them with something they know. So they are familiar to cocktails. You have to put Grapa in their cocktails. And then you can add them, you know, developing the knowledge of Barrick h Grapa. Maybe working on their taste, working with the right products, but it's a process. First off, you have to, you know, start with what they are familiar to. Yes. I'm sure that's right. But I'm I'm also sure that, you know, not just for young people, but for for people of of any age of my age. People sometimes think grappa is going to be really powerful and and maybe a bit harsh. But when they you taste a No. No. I I would say harsh. Mhmm. When you taste a smooth wood age quality premium grappa, it's a real revelation. It's, you know, really something entirely enjoyable to savor and and just enjoy. Now, Julia, let's turn to, perhaps what might seem a strange topic, but grappa and food or pairing grappa with foods or perhaps using grappa in the kitchen. I know you have some thoughts on this. Yeah. Yeah. So besides, traditional parents suggestions like Karapa and desserts, grappin chocolate, grppin gelato. I also use grappa for cooking. For example, to make the risotto, I use Grppin in place of wine. So when you add the the wine at the very beginning, the risotto making, and you let it evaporate, I use grappa in place of wine, or I use grappa to enrich the taste of my tomato sauce for spaghetti because I volume alcohol helps to enrich the taste and flavor in the tomatoes. So I use this little, you know, trick trick of putting my grappa, a little bit of grappa in my in my tomato sauce as well. So after you've started cooking the tomato sauce, you would add Yeah. You would add how much? I would say a a little, like, like, espresso espresso comp, you know, does does this make sense? And espresso cups Okay. In the in the boiling sauce, and then you let it evaporate stirring slowly. And then, you know, of course, the alcohol evaporates but it let, aromas explode. You have to try. I'm definitely going to try that. It's it's it's the same it's the same principle behind pastalabatta, you know, Yes. That sounds really, really good. I'm gonna definitely try that, Julia. I think you've taught our listeners a great deal about Grapa, but, you know, the best way to learn about Grapa is to visit a distillery and see and learn at the source to understand the land it comes from, that this isn't just a manufactured spirit that appears in a bottle, but is made by by people with real care and hand attention. Of course. Can people visit the distillery? Tell us about hospitality at Castania. So, actually, we work with the small groups of people. We are not very much in the hospitality yet, but we are working on it because of the, you know, UNESCO Prosecco is project that it's going on. But it's always possible to go to our website, send an email, and, we will be more than happy to welcome you at our distillery. Okay. That's great. Well, Julia, thank you very much for being my guest today. No. Thank you, Mark. You've you've really explained a great deal about Grapa and about changing perceptions of Grapa. How Grapa really is a spirit for now. It's a it's a very enjoyable taste of Italy. That is unique to Italy. And I really, urge my listeners to explore and discover quality grappa and if they can find it where they are. Julia, I hope you and your family have a very successful Vinitally. I look forward to meeting you there. Thank you. And I just wanna have a reminder for those who will be at Vinitally twenty twenty four. A special Grapa Master class details. The Grapa versus cognac Challenge will be on April sixteenth at two thirty in hall seven stand a six a seven. So thank you very much Julia, and I look forward to meeting you soon. Thank you. Thank you, Mark. Bye bye. Bye bye. Ciao. I hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.