Ep. 1974 Raffaele Boscaini | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to Veneto, to the beautiful wine hills of the Val Poricella, just north of verona, to meet my guest Rafayale Boscagini of Mazi Acricola. Rafael is the seventh generation of the Boscagini family working on the family wine estate and the coordinator of the Mazi technical group as well as marketing director. Good morning, Rafael. It's a pleasure to meet you here. How are you today? I'm very good. It's a beautiful day today in in Valpolicella, and so I'm, full of energy and pleased to be here with you. Well, I'm just imagining that the beautiful wine hills behind Montelionne, the new project, which we'll talk about later in our interview, but it's such a beautiful spot. And, it's a spot I've very fond of myself. So I wish I was in the room with you sharing a glass of wine, even though it's only ten o'clock in the morning here. Yeah. No. It's it's eleven. Yeah. Eleven for you and the ten for me here in England. Yeah. It's almost about time here. Almost evaluating. Rafael shared something of the Boskayini family store in the history of Mazi in my podcast with your father, doctor Sandro Boskayini. Which our listeners can still discover and listen to on the Italian wine podcast playlist. Today, I'd like to continue that story focusing on two enduring elements of the Mazi story. That's tradition and innovation. But first of all, for those who don't know Mazi, don't know where you located, can you share with us a little bit about where Mazi is, where the vineyards are so that our listeners can gain a picture of the beautiful valpolicella wine hills and beyond because I know that Mazi has vineyard holdings well beyond this classic heartland, even as far away as Argentina. Correct. Correct. Yes, sir. Of course, nowadays, Masi is quite expanded, as you've said, even in Argentina, but we should go back to our history. So back in seventeen seventy two, the first vigna that has been cultivated by my family, was called the Bayode Masi, a very little valley into the Balpolitella Classic area, and where is it? Is that on the north west from verona, which is the main town of, this part of Italy in the northeast of Italy in the Benito region. We are more or less one hour driving by Venice and one hour driving by the dolomites. And this is in fact the hillside area where we lies basically at the foot of the dolomites. And then after Verona started the flat land up until Venice. This area is, particularly vacated for grape growing. Since, on one side, protected by the alps, by the dolomites, from the cold wind coming from the central Europe, and on the other side, on the at this west of, Balicella lies the largest Italian lake called the lake garda, who provides a nice, microclimate to this area, to the verporicella Classic area. So this is the area where we start from. Nevertheless, through the generation during the years, we expand our interest and our vineyard in other, first of all, area of the province of verona, including Badolino, just on the shoreline of the Lake Garden, and the more the eastern state, the area of a strawberry, very famous for the white, which is the shade more on the east side. Moreover, with the ears, we even went for a more, let's say, contemporary and, even, the modern kind of Venus in the friuli area in a part of the flatland where we plant, even international varieties, including, Melo, Pinogrillo, some company as well for making even some more everyday drinking wine, since, you have to consider that, being native of Papicella, we have been always interpreting the best product of Bcl, which is a Marone. And, of course, definitely a marrone is a great wine, but definitely not an everyday drinking wine. Once again, this idea of, making a marrone, being expert a marrone, leads us to go out of the area into Argentina to make a sort of a venetian wine over there in which way by both, planting the varieties, Covina, and Olinela, and married with the Argentinian albert, but even using the technique of drying the grapes, the same technique that here we use for tomato owner and other interesting minds. More recently, we did start, some collaborations as well in the area. So, I mean, adding the possibility to run beautiful estates, including Sarego ligieri, a study called, the state of Sarego ligieri, or Boscifah, they got in twenty twelve to add Egypt. As I said, we can run these, states without purchasing because, of course, they still are in the property of the of the family. But with the technical and commercial assistant given by Mazi. Okay. That's a great overview of the origins of Mazi in the Val Pollichana classica. As well as how, the family has over the years expanded throughout Veneto for Yulie, but also Argentina, very fascinating project. I've really enjoyed the wines such as Quebec and that Venetian tradition with Argentina grapes grown in Argentina. So that's a really fascinating project. I advise our listeners all over the world to seek these wines if you can find them. It's such an interesting marriage of of Veneto and Argentina. Now Rafael, I've been visiting Mazi for more than thirty five years. What I always find most exciting as well as inspirational about your family company It's how you're able to combine tradition. And I mean, deep historic tradition going back centuries with innovation, bringing the most modern ideas as well as technologies into the winemaking process to produce wines that are as good as they can be. You've mentioned the areas you're now growing grapes and producing a large range of vines of all types and styles. I think it's definitely fair to say that mozzie's most famous for the crew Amarones. I had an opportunity to attend your unique master class at Vinitally that vertical tasting of your crew Amarones, which was absolutely fascinating. So can you talk to us about this very special wine, Amerrone made by a unique process and the approach that that Mazi take and the production of the crew wines, in particular, how you find the best way to allow terroir to express itself in your Amaroni wines. Thanks, Mark, for this question. Because it is allows me to really express what is the soul of, Masi. As I said, we start our adventure in the wine business back in seventeen seventy two, and we start from a single vineyard called Bayode Masi. So to transfer into a bottle, the value of a piece of land, a specific piece of land with this own soil, with this own climate conditions and, exposition to the elements. And, of course, great variety and technique of winemaking. So, all these elements that are run by human are really what happens in the every single vineyard you can find, and of course, even in the Mazes crew. And nowadays, we have three different crew of Amalone, which are two belongs to Masi, Campo longo, iturba, and, Marzano, and one belongs to the estate of, Ceregolegieri, and it's called Vayar Malone. And here comes the point, and even the idea to have this wine always produced, of course, when the clamor condition are good to only produce this wine with its own style, which really comes from the soil, from the exposure, from the elements and the grape variety, and that is, fascinating to see how different they are. And of course, in the decades and the centuries, this, a tradition of separate, vinified different plots, gave us this, richness, Amalone can be a beautiful wine, produced with the grape coming from several vineyards and is fantastic. Let's say, our Costa Sierra or Resalva Costa Sierra. But even can express really the character of a singular plot. In this case, it needs to have a particular care in all the aspects, including, as mentioned before, great technology, technology that allows, for example, in this time to, fight on the climate challenges in order, once again, to give always the personality. It's very interesting. And you mentioned the tasting that's been Italy a couple of months ago, to see when the characteristics of, uniqueness of every single vineyard can be, let's say, you can find it, even after twenty years in the same bottle or even in after twenty vintages, in different vintages. But, for example, is undoubt that the more, austere character of Mazzano and, the sensation that is never ready because it's so nervous, so strong, is the characteristic of Marzano Marona where the finesse and the great gentleness of the even that you can have it of a wine with the twentieth bottle or with the new open model from the the very last vintage which was twenty seventeen, the one released. So this is the beauty of having this cruise and, is what really we can say probably allows us to be considered as the leading amount of producer. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Yes. It was a fascinating fascinating vertical tasting and unique tasting, and it was enhanced as well with the air edition of professor Atilio Chienza. Who is also explaining the characteristics of the soils and how that translates into the styles of each of the crew wines. But I think it's most important is that you're you're saying Rafael, that the goal is to express the personality of a particular vineyard of a particular Terwall through the ones that you're making. I'd like to turn to this historic relationship that you've mentioned already that Mazi has with the Sarago Aligueri family. Of course, the family that are direct descendants of the Supreme poet, Dante La Guierre, considered the father of the Italian language, the twenty first generation still overseeing the estate. How did this long standing partnership come about? It's an important relationship and partnership of neighboring families. Yeah. It's been started in seventeen seventy two. So, basically, over fifty years ago. And, it's something that somehow could be difficult to understand nowadays with the relations with the entrepreneur, with the people and so on, but it seems very natural for my father and for the count, so they go together when they do this agreement over fifty years ago. Since it was, basically, as simple as a win win situation. So on one side, you have this family running the the most beautiful estate in the area with, let's say, no skills in sales, marketing, never access to the the market and so on. And on the other side, there is a a company who was growing in this great approach to the market, all the marketing, all the stuff that you need, and that was in a need of, grapes, basically, the first part of the supply chain. So what's happened? Without any investment, we are access to this beautiful estate, and the Sadegoligaili family doesn't have any more, let's say, headaches in how to keep the value of their beautiful estate. So the thing is working very well, which is in fact pretty much understandable after fifty years. And with the mutual satisfaction on one side, we are saying I have this great opportunity and honor to produce and distribute the wines with this prestigious name, and on the other side, the family has got their own, capital kept alive and even having more value on that. Okay. It's a beautiful partnership. And, I think it really emphasizes that the importance that Masi always places on tradition and and history and the deep long standing roots of Viticulture in the Valpoli Chala. I've enjoyed visiting the Sarego Alagaria state many times, and it really is part of Italian history. Rafael I'd like to turn now to new projects. You're the coordinator of the MOSi technical group. MOSi's always been a leader in seeking new technical solutions to improve the wines, whether the precise period of a pastimento for for wines such as amarone and ricciotto, the refinement of the Repasso technique. I've seen how that's evolved over the years and decades for the production of Campbell figurine and and much much more. However, during lockdown, you became involved with a new and exciting project that was actually perhaps shall we say returning to a simpler purer way of making wine. Let me read what you said. During lockdown, people rediscovered that they had time to cook to be together to share everyday wines with meals like we used to do in the past before life got too busy. With the Frisco de Mazi project, We wanted to return to making simple genuine wines, but as good as we expect them to be today. Tell us about the Frisco de Mazi project. That's correct. I think that the code that you just read is really quite self explanatory. But the concept is that. So we ask ourself come on, all the wines that we do, all the operation that we do in the seller, in the aging, in the production, in the buying growing. Everything is, studied in a beautiful way to add something to give more color, to give more angle, to give more age ability, to give more, more, more, which is a good, nothing wrong. But at the end of the day, sometimes we can have it the the one with just simple as it is, just crushed grapes fermented and that's it. So we studied Massey with the concept of to produce a wine just taking out things instead of adding. So all the elements are there. Just the crushed grapes, and that's it, fermented, not even filtered in order to have a very clear, wine simple, that is very much close to the beginning of the supply chain. So the fruit, the grapes, right? And it came out to be a wine that, as I said, reminds a lot like the homemade wine of the farmer. But the shading finally good without the problems of oxidation or or two IS CVD and so on because it's made with the proper instrument in the, let's say, a modern facility with the modern technologies that allows the wine to be stable or to don't get oxidation and so on. All the packaging elements as well has been studied in the same way. Lightweight bottle. The paper of the label is totally recycled paper and recyclable, and the cork is, composite cork, where the part of the recycle cork is kept together by v vacs. So it's totally natural. And so it's very quite interesting all these elements in one wine and in fact the market take it very nice. At the same time, could be even a wine very easy to drink, to prepare with anything, from the pizza with the white, with the sushi, and so on. It's very, very easy. And is even quite interesting for the young generations who are very sensitive to all these things around the sustainability. Okay. That's a good explanation of this beautiful project as you say, of returning to a purer style, a simpler style of wine, but made with care and expertise and technologies where necessary. The vineyards are organic. Is that right? That's correct. They are organic, but The point that the air organic is not just to have a certification, but just to have, once again, being very sustainable as the matches we can, and without any interfere with nature, at least the less that we can is even a vegan wine, so not using anything with the animal origin into the production of the wine. Okay. That's fascinating. And also fermentation using the indigenous yeast on the grapes correct their own yeast that are on the grapes, the natural yeast of the grapes, of course, and the all the eventual dynamic of the fermentation is aided with the the managing the temperature. Of the fermentation in order to do whatever you need. Okay. So it's a really fascinating project. And you mentioned the packaging. I want to highlight that because there's a very special bottle that was created in order to get this lighter weight which, of course, cuts down on transport costs and and is part of the sustainability project behind it. A beautiful bottle. Tell us a little bit about the bottle. Yeah. The point is that, is just some years that we are using lightweight bottle for several products, in order to have our carbon footprint blessing impactful. And this is the the case where sometimes, you know, that this lightweight bottle are quite poor. And with some premium wines, you are a little bit, you know, confusing your customer. Right? So we understand that we needed to have a lightweight bottle, but we understand then we need to have it a nice bottle. So we went to this, famous Italian designer, piero Risoni, who designed many things from lamps to couch and, kitchen, and so on, and many packaging elements of very several brands and so on. We ask him, giving him this, interesting challenge to have a light bottle, but nice and so on. So after a few months, of starting of the the right shape, the on one side, provide the same strength to the glass, but with more harmonious design. And it came out with this beautiful bottle. And then, of course, the, the glass manufacturer, Bellalia, follow us on this, project and make it, in industrial, happens, right? The result is that, from the, normally six hundred and fifty grams of an empty, bottle of this, category of wine, we are, just below four hundred now. So, we save one third of the glass to, to make it. That means one third of the energy to produce the glass, one third of effort to carry the case, and one third to to our hand to pour the glass of wine. So less energy used the the same and and a lot of, enjoyment into the wine. Okay. That's a great explanation. It's a beautiful bottle. And Frisco de Mazi, the wines are I'm urging our listeners to seek these out. I can even find them in my small town in Southwest England. So they're a completely different expression from Mazi to the great amerone wines, of course, but still very much part of the philosophy behind what moz you're doing. One final wine, I just wanna brief word on because I sampled it for the first time Edwin Italy, which is Rosa Dimazi. Yeah. Rosa Dimazi is, instead, the totally new project. Rosa Dimazi is a wine that has been in our portfolio since a long time. I used to be basically, a wine made out from, some, a leforsco actually with the percentage of drying the grapes. The point is that, it still is a good wine, but we noticed that the trend of the rosette consumption is for some wines that have different characteristics. No more this rosette wine that provide this quite interesting aromas of strawberry or some candies and so on, but more, let's say, serious rosy wine that, taste like, an extremely light red rather than, this family flavors, right, or sweet flavors and so on. So we went to a a very high elevation video that we have in Viricella planted five years ago. Now it's producing Merlo, and we did a very refined, vinification with, gentle extraction during the maceration of a very few hours control temperature and came out to be a very pure and simple, wine. Which really respond perfectly to this, trend. The effect to have a wine that doesn't even seems a wine is a is more close to to a beverage, a very light beverage, and became even, and this is, nothing wrong with that, even a, sort of, fashion of style and so on. And that's why we even design a package that is, like, a perfume bottle. Which, reminds of some, our graphic elements, but it's totally out of any, I mean, lines of a label that we have. Okay. It's a beautiful wine. I really enjoyed sampling it. And I would say it's a versatile wine as well. A wine that that, really can accompany throughout a meal, lighter in style, of course, but, very pleasing to drink. I'd like to turn now to another really interesting project, a big project. I'm talking about the Monteleone project, and to about wine hospitality. And the Mazi vision of wine hospitality. I had a sneak preview at Vin Italy to visit Montelianme, but I'm not sure if you're open. You were very close to opening. Tell us about this. Yeah. We are very close to open. It's gonna be open in the in the fall, probably in October, open to the visitors, and it's in fact, we can say in the more easy way is a visitor center for Mazi. But, in the reality is, for us, the way to have a direct contact with our consumer. Why I always say is that, within, ourselves and the and the consumer in the restaurant. Let's say, in in North America, we have several steps. Our sales manager, our country manager, then the importer, then the their sales reps, the distributor and so on. So we have seven, eight steps, and your message is diluted during this, long, chain. So how to do. Of course, we can, spend, millions in, advertise, but won't have the same effect to have the people in front of you and talk to them and let them touch with their hand, experience what happens in the in the, in the seller, experience that to have a chat with, my father, for example, and listen the story, by his own a voice or either be in one, Masy wine experience, restaurant in a Cortina on the slopes of the dolomites, and having the wine pair properly with why not and, a digital Lamadone. So all this channel of communicator, are the one that really on a way created the closeness to the winery and his own soul, and of course, creates a nice, relationships with this, passionate customer that will become our ambassador. Okay. So in, what will be in the hospitality center? Will there be the opportunity to enjoy the wines with food, for example? Yeah. Correct. It's gonna be all of all of them together. So, it will be, of course, the possibility to visit the winery with, some girl that will, will drive our guests to see the winery to see where are the borrower, all the all the, you know, experimental seller the dry loft, then they can experience it being a video to to see what is not happening now. For example, if you are visiting in, March, there's nothing there. There's no grape to to be dry. There's no, harvest and nothing. And so it's gonna be the the moment where, the people can see through a video. Then, of course, after that, then you can experience a tasting with a number of different choice, of tasting, from the more easy for the for the beginners to the more, expert with, for example, with the glue of a malone or back vintages when knocked. And then, of course, they can have a nice, meal, paired with the with the wine or in the meal where into the most of the recipe, the wine is used as an ingredient. Moreover, of course, there would be, a store where you can buy all the rained mask wine, including the large format and the back vintages. Okay. So the for our listeners traveling to Valpolicella, by the autumn, the Mazi visitor center is definitely a place that should be on any wine lover's itinerary. It'll be a fabulous way to learn not only about Mazi, but about Val Pollichala, about the production of amarone and Repaso wines and to sample the full range in a very congenial and enjoyable, situation. Rafael, final question. And, we don't have much time. So just, a few brief words. I know that for the Boscaini family and for Mazi Agricola, this link with history and tradition and art and culture has long been, really at the heart of much of what you do. Can you just say a few words about the work of the fondazione Mazi? Yeah. Fondazione Mazi at the end of the day is a sort of, natural, development of our our, as you said, our passion for the wine, for the territory and so on. So he is, in fact, a a foundation that, his, ideal, scope is to promote the culture of our territory. And our territory is the Venetian area where we we belong from. How it works is made some studies, research, and, of course, publication. And, well, the most evident of the activities is the, Masi award, who, gives a prize to, those people or or companies or or artists that really brings to, the image of our region to the highest level in the world. And, is a nice operation that we do since, over forty years, because we firmly believe that, a great, wine culture belongs to a great territory. And we are convinced that, the Vinichan, it is a great territory. Okay. That's great. Well, that's a great, place to finish on. Rafael, thank you so much for giving us your time this morning for sharing the continuing and evolving story of Mazi and the Boskayini family. Now I believe you're in the eighth generation. Is that correct? I'm the seventh generation, but of course, I have two kids and, hopefully, they they are starting, but my sister, son, Alice already started the work in the company. Okay. So The family is now in the eighth generation. It's been a real pleasure to speak with you again. I look forward to meeting up again before too long, but, for now, Thank you very much, sir. Well, have a great day as well. Thank you, our family, child. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Miller, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.