Ep. 2039 Salvatore Avallone, Villa Matilde  | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And while Matikazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast Today, I'm delighted to travel this morning to Campania, to the Campania Felix of antiquity, to a wine zone where grapes have been grown for more than two thousand years, and to where the Romans's most famous grand cru Felernum was once produced. We're at the pioneering and iconic wine estate of Villa Matilda in the province of Caserta, and my guest today is Salvatorre Avalone. Bongiorno Salvador. How are you today? And is it a beautiful day? Good morning, Mark. This is a wonderful day in Campania. So, you know, that the neighbors is the city of the sun. And today, we have a shining sun in the sky, blue sky on the vineyards of, Villa. Okay. That's a beautiful image in my mind. Now take our listeners to where you are. Describe the wine hills of the Monte del Masigo, roco Monfino, describe where you are. So our listeners can get in their minds this beautiful image of the sun shining on your vineyards. So we are in a company, region. Campania, is, a southern region of Italy is the region of Naples, Capric, Lucicano, Amalfi, and many, many beautiful places, very well known all around the world. But in the same time, companania probably is the cradle of the Italian winemaking. The more than, to indulge millennium ago, the south of Italy was a big Greek colony. And you know that the one industry was created by the Greek population that in that time for the first time in the history planted some vines in our land. Okay. Well, that's a very important historical reference, the Greeks before the Romans. Now We met more than thirty years ago, Salvatorre, when my wife and I were researching and writing our book, the wine roads of Italy. And you shared with us the Villa Matilda story, which is an exciting an inspiring story of curiosity and scholarship as your father, doctor Francesco Powell, Paolo Avelone, undertook extensive research into the origins of ancient falernum wine. Can you tell us about the work of your father? He wasn't a winemaker originally. Was he? Yeah. He wasn't a winemaker. He was a lawyer, a lawyer, a a big lawyer in, in Naples. And in the same time, teacher in the, Napoleon university, specialized in Roman Low ancient Roman law. So the story of my family, the story of Valerno, the story of when making the South of Italy straight be connected because in the fifties, my father launched a project to bring back to life. The ancient Valerno, wine falerno, was, the wine, the February twine since the time of Julius Caesar in Cleopatra, and remained not just a wine, but a legend top wine of southern of Italy was very rare, very expensive. And the same was for more than to end up millennia. Unfortunately, in the second half of nineteenth century, Filocera arrived in Europe and in the area of production of destroyed about ninety seven, ninety nine percent of the vineyards that was cultivated in the time. So the final production disappeared. My father I told you before was a teacher in university of Naples and very often during his study on the ancient Roman books He found some celebration of the characteristic of this famous woodwind falermo. But at the time in the middle of twenty center was impossible to have a sip of this type of wine to taste and to have an idea what was the characteristic of the faler. So he had the idea to try to bring back to live, the production, the vineyards, and then the production of the ancient falerna. So with a small group of friends, you start involved in the agriculture of department department of New Quality University is that the project, he launched the project to study the characteristic of the grapes used it since Roman's time to produce the phaler. He invested more than fifteen years of research in this study. And finally after this long story and many, many weekends invested to walk around the ancient fallerneux production area. Finally, he found five vines of gray of white grape varieties and fifteen of red grape varieties survived to the philosopher that was the direct descendant of the grapes used during Roman imperial age to produce the ancient faler. That is an amazing story, Salvatorre. That's this that out of curiosity and scholarship, this research into ancient Great Verizon as well, into the Terwa, into the territory where Valerinum had been made, resulted in this beautiful project. So so Villa Matilda came from this project out of born out of passion and dedication to the ancient past. And today, you your sister and your children are continuing the Villa Matilda's story. Yeah. It's true. I am the second generation, but my son, Franchesco, and, Paulo, and my niece, Christina, are the third generation involved in this, beautiful job. And, we have the responsibility, and we are proud in the same time to produce a wine like the Valerno, where the thousand and five hundred years of history. Yes. Absolutely. And you said that your father studied ancient texts the poetry of the Romans Horace, and also, of course, pliny the Elder who may have been the first writer to link wine with terroir and to note that the quality of wine is directly linked to the place where the grapes are grown. So tell us about the land of Fererno. Tell us about this fertile volcanic wine zone and why it is such a beautiful place to grow grapes. And what grapes do you grow? Yeah. It's, a unique terroir. Because Valerno has a unique characteristic. So imagine what was our land two thousand five hundred years ago when the Greek and then the Romans planned their vineyards in a land in which there was nothing. So they can they had the opportunity to choose the best terroir to plant the vineyards, and they select the area around the roca Monfina, Vulcan, a beautiful land that was in peace entirely surrounded by a crown of mountain, open in celebration to the sea coast. But from all the other direction surrounded by the Aounci mountain, the Masiko mountain, the Cocaina mountain. So it's a very well protected area by this crown of mountain with a special, not a special characteristic, not just volcanic, not just close to the sea, but with the mountain of the a pinino on the back, and this is very important for the aromatic altruistic of our wine because we are in the southern region and you can understand what in some area so very well protected and what's surrounded by by the crown of mountain, the temperature easily can rise up at, forty five or more celsius degrees. And in this condition, the flavors of the grapes could be burned by the hot temperature, but from the mountain of the Appenino during summertime every day from this mountain down to the sea, blow a fresh breeze that refresh the template of this area of the fields located in this area that is actually the same production area that the Romans used to for cultivate their grapes more than two thousand and a half years ago. So fresh breeze from the mountain, volcanic soil, southern climate, and the flavors of the sea coast that are very close to this terroir give to our grapes and of course then to our wines that special characteristic that also today we can have in our wines. Okay. That is a really beautiful description and a very clear description of a precise terroir that has been producing great wine for two and a half thousand years. Now I know your father was very precise and in his researches into grape varieties. And as you say, he found the remains of ancient great varieties that had been grown continuously up until the time of Filosura. Tell us about the most important great varieties and the link to antiquity. Yeah. The main the main part of the research of my father was to to have the correct description of what was the unpelographic characteristic of the grapes used since Johan's time to produce the phalaen. He made this description with the the elements that was describe for the grapes that was described in the ancient Romans books. With the type of description, they compared My father and the and his friends that was involved in this research compared the characteristic of some vines survived the philosopher to to found the right grape varieties that was similar to the characteristic of the grapes described in the ancient books. Today, we can say that the grape were varieties that was used since Roman's time to reduce fallerno was and a special by your type of Falangina grape. Luckily, still today call it the uva falerna uva means grapes, so falerna grapes. And for the red wines, again, a special biotype of Ayaniko and Pietroso. So it's part of this family but with special characteristic that the grapes has evolved in more than two and a half millennium of Easter of evolution. So this grape varieties are very well balanced with the characteristic of our per wire, the climate, the soil, and so on. So if you taste the wine produced with this grape varieties, you can understand that they're similar, but not the same of the Falangina, ayanico, and pedialso wines. Okay. So that is, that is really interesting. And I know as well that Falangina now is a grape that is planted more widely in other parts of Campania, a great variety that some of our listeners will have encountered, but Thalangina may not have existed if your father hadn't worked to propagate those vines that he found to safeguard this ancient grape variety for us all to enjoy today. Is that correct? Yeah. Yes. We can say that, has been a a big part of the, revolution of the Fallangina grape in the in the fifties when the search of my father started. The Falangina was considered a stupid grape for wine production without, quality without, the special characteristic that we know that this type of grape has. But I I have to to repeat again. So the Hallerna grape is a special biotite with special characteristic. Similar to the following gainer, but not exactly the same. It's important to to say that the name following gainer comes from a new technique knew for that time two two thousand years ago to grown up the vines when the Greek population arrived on the south of Italy they use to grown up their vines with the same technique that today is still using in Greek islands in with the huluri technique of pruning. This technique means that the shoes and the grapes of, and the bunches of the grape are located just under just up to the soil, just on the soil. So in touch with the with the sauna, with the humidity of the soil. But this type of, cultivation is possible in very, very dry climate condition. The south of Italy, okay, is a southern region, but not so dry like the Greek islands. When they arrive in our region, they start to use this type of phoning system but for the humidity of the soil, the bunches was impossible with the right maturation in the bunches because we come before the maturation become hill before the maturations. So they had the idea to put close to the vine, a wood stick to put the shifts, the bunches, on this wood stick and far from the humidity of the soil. The name of the wood stick in ancient LinkedIn was So all the grape varieties he is and cultivated with this type of new technique was called grapes from phalanga. So the phalangeena basically is the name of the technique. So today, we can have many different biotype. Of grapes similar, but not the same because the name following Gina is still used to identify many, many by your type of grapes in companion region. Okay. That's fascinating too. Again, linking it to the way the grapes were trained in antiquity. Now just sticking with the history Salvatorre, I know it's difficult. To try to understand how falerno wine was in Roman times. But can you say something about the different styles of falerno that the Romans made? Yeah, is, is totally different. Totally different because the one you use to ferment, the mast, with the promises, with the stems, for all the time of fermentation, but they used to age the wine with diplomacy to stand in the same time in their forest. You can understand with this very long contact create a different totally different characteristic of wine very rich companions. The wines was very aggressive to the palate. For this reason, they used to age this wine up to one hundred years in the amphoras and then the amphoras very often was located in the wide in wide room called Fumarium located under the rooftop of the Roman villas. Villas is a latin word again that means far. So in that farm, this room for Maureen was the room was the area in which all the smoke produced in the fireplace of the dealer was concentrated. So you can understand then a wine fermented and aged for more than one hundred years smoke it for the same time. And then store it in some, for us with the great evaporation through the microfollars of the clay So it was a product totally different compared with the idea that today have of the wine. So what's something closer to a balsamic vinegar was a cream for concentration. And also for the acidity, the tiny concentration, and the characteristic of the wine. So the Romans very often was to blend this type of product with water, often with sea water, honey, spies with many different recipes that change for the different period of the year in basically for the religious occasion in which the wine was, enjoyed. So the phenomenon of today has the roof in that story, in that tradition, but of course is a one with a touch of the actual modem technologies. Okay. That is such a fascinating description of how the greatest wines for the Romans were wines that would age in amphra for more than a hundred years. I know plenty of the elder has a description of drinking a falernum from from over a hundred years ago, and he talks about such is the nature of old wines because they would have been such extraordinary wines to taste. But of course, as you say, the modern falernale that you are producing at Villa Matilda is made using both modern technology, but also ancient methods as well. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like, and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Let me talk about your flagship, Filerno Bianco, Davina Carracci, Fileno Del Masico, Bianco. Tell us how you produce this wine. Yeah. Vina Karache is the name of a single vineyards of the production area of a filerino. But like the classical filerino del marsico colicastrze, Pinyakarachi is, fermented and Egypt in, for us, the same for us that was used since Roman's time to produce the fallen wine, both white, and, and the engraved. About a thirty, thirty five percent of the must is fermented in a clay and forest and the sixty, seventy percent of the must ferment in stainless steel in a temperature controlled situation. We still use like the Romans used to do. The, maceration of the skins of this type of wine, but we balance the extraction with the effort time of skin contact. So the meaning of short is, from two up to twelve hours depends the characteristic of each vintage. So the is, a blend of the ancient traditional style of winemaking for Valerno from one side to the other side the best modern technologies because we produce wine for the actual people, not for currencies or any clear background. Okay. That's a very good description, Salvatorre. And I think you're right. I don't think many of us would enjoy tasting that wine in amphora for more than a hundred years that had been in barrels over the fulmariam where smoke coming up and flavoring the wines too. But I know everybody would love to taste Yirvina Karaci. I tasted it at Vini Italy this year, and I'm looking at my tasting notes, and I noted the beautiful concentration of fruit and aromas, yellow fruits. Pineapple, even peach balanced with this energy intention and an acidity that will allow it to age for considerable periods and a beautiful tingling mineral finish. So I I think it's one of the great white wines of Italy, and I really enjoy tasting it. Thank you. Thank you. Mark, for us, it's very important also, to to say that, Vigna Karachi, okay, is it wide, but with start delivery, this type of wine minimum after four, five years after the harvesting time. So all the wines white wines for Campania are wyatts with a very big aging potential. Okay. We don't go up to one hundred years of aging like the ancient romans, but we can enjoy our filerno after ten, fifteen, twenty or more years of refining in your cellar, in your bottom, and that the wine is incredible for the characteristic of evolution. That's a very important point, Salvatore, because, mostly, we think of Italian white wines, is not wines with a great aging potential, but These great wines of Campania, and I'm including here as well, Fiano, Fiano Diavolino, and Greco Ditou for great wines also with links to antiquity that have this wonderful capacity to age and involve over decades. Yes. I agree totally. I totally agree with these words. And if I don't understand why the people for the people is normal, if they drink wine from other countries to drink wine after three, four or more years. And for Italian, why they think that this is not true? Of course, depends. It depends. What type of wine you drink, and also what is the producer that we, this type of wine. The philosophy of Milan Matilda is to reveal the characteristic of the of the grapes in our wine, but also to improve the aging potential of this type of beautiful grape varieties and provide that we have in our region to produce wine with, a big edge of potential with the classic fallingina to diego, to Difiano, and, of course, for our special falerino del marsico. Well, let's talk about the red Valerno then. It's interesting Salvatorre that Valerno for the Romans wasn't just from one particular grape variety, but there would have been different colors of Valerno from both the Falangina white grape, as well as from these two grape grapes, Anni Aniko, and Piediroso. I guess that wine that had aged for a hundred years on the skins would have taken on its own amber color, but the Ferno Del Masico red wines are also very important. Tell us about your vigna camarato, this super campagna wine. Camarato is like a karachi. A single vineyard of the in the terroir of Sanerno Del Masico, but I have to to say that, you can have a white color and red Fallerno, of course, meet with different grape varieties because Fallerno is not the name of the variety, but Fallerno is the name of the geographic area in which this type of wine produced since Roman time. For example, like, Bordeaux, in Bordeaux, area, you can have a white Bordeaux, red Bordeaux produced with different rate varieties. But though it's the name of the terroir in this, this type of wine is this, is produced. The same for Valerno. Valero is the name of the terroir. The Amber wines of ancient rome was made with Fallangina. The red pipe is made with the blend of Ayamiko and Pidioso. Camarato is a red filer, made with the ninety percent of Ayamiko, about ten percent of kidiros and other indigenous grape varieties from companion region. So with my sister, with Maria, we start to bottle the wines produced in Athena Camarato. And for the first time, in nineteen eighty three, because, every year, we during our testing after the the the the the August and time, sir, we, had the clear image of a senior in which the graves and the wine produced from the grapes from Vigna Camarato had every year a special profile, a special testing. So we decide to bottle this wine separately from all the other falermo that we have that we produce in our own vineyards. So it was a crew inside the crew area of falermo. Yes. We are, lucky because lucky people were like producer because our father rediscovered the dilemma. He bring back to life the beautiful being as the beautiful varieties of the this area. And in this area, we have so many different climate and soil characteristics that we can have beautiful wine like the classic Valerno, bread and white colicastraser with a special crew, karachi, and Camarato. That has been the story of the best reds in the south of Italy. Okay. Well, that's that's so interesting as well. And then and as you say, to emphasize that Valerno is the wine zone, the territory with, both white and red Fonerno being produced. Now I know you also have an extensive range of wines, and and then a state in Irpina where you produce great wines, such as Greco Ditou for Fiano di Avolino and Tarazi. We won't have time to talk about those today. Perhaps we will, on another occasion, but I'd like now to turn to the gastronomy of your part of Campania. I think it's probably more difficult to link the foods of antiquity with the of today, the tastes and flavors of today, but you can you tell us some foods that are very typical of where you are and which pair particularly well with the wines of Villa Matilda? Yes. Thanks for this question because it's very important that the people can understand the debt the flaviano is a special wine all, but in the same time, a modern wine that can have the right wing pairing with many different preparations of the actual gastronia, the modern gastronomy. For example, for Karachi, we suggest to have the best, in our opinion, the best one pairing could be with the Boltar, Bottearda preparations in, in, in Sardinia, for example, was very popular to have the spaghetti with Bottear gasols. But in the other, area closer to house in Campania. For example, you used to have a, soup of lobster made with, a pumpkin sauce that is very, very special over for example, with the result, taught on Radhicchio and Burata. Burata actually and Radhicchio are very popular, not just Italy, but all around the world. The white fellow, you know, the colleague has raised it, used to to match this type of wine with the the classic preparation, like, for example, spaghetti ala Bumbore. But we suggest, for example, to try this type of wine with some Souffle, vegetables souffle preparation, or aubergine. Or for example, with fried cod or some spaghetti called Beautiful. In my opinion, there is also a most simple way to to enjoy fernando with some a gry lad bread with butter and a small piece of anchovies on the back. Try that is my opinion is good. Beautiful. That sounds wonderful. What about pairing your Fererno Del Masico Roso? Roso is, in our end, the falerno, since twenty years ago, thirty years ago, was it identified with the Alerno itself. So we have many different type, but basically, one pairing, but basically with, meat preparation, their Fallerno classical is typical to, match it with the ragu sauce, ragu sauce is a sauce with, tomatoes, many different type of meat, and cook it in the trade in the Republican tradition for more than twelve, fourteen hours at very, very low flame. So low temperature. But you can enjoy it also with typical meatballs, frieders, with the Barazato meat. I love a lot to drink, and I do often it during my wintertime. To eat a glass of Alair Navoso with a piece of small piece of parmesan well aged, and I spend my, winter evening on the fireplace, a glass of filerno, and some piece of parmesan. Di Camagato was is a full bodied red wine, and we used to match it with, land, basically, is the most tradition when pairing with land, grocery land, or stafford land, and with the buffalo meat, buffalo is close to the basin in US. And also with aged cheese from companion or outside the companion, like, Montemano or with a well aged pecorino from Sardinia. Okay. Those are beautiful pairings that I can almost smell that ragu on a napo napoletana. This beautiful part of slow cooked meats and, and also, imagining you're sitting in front of the fire in winter just simply enjoying the, camarato with a piece of aged cheese. Salvatory, I know that your family have long been very welcoming hosts to visitors, you're you you share the story of Villa Matilda and also of the broader land from where you are from. Tell us about wine hospitality at Villa Matilda. The Locanda Del Fernando sounds like a very special place. Thank you. Thank you, Wakanda. The Fernando is our, agreed to reasonable restaurant in, in, Villa Matil, the main cellar, in the ancient cellar for which we produce the Valerno and is located in the middle of one of the two, the three owns in the ancient Valerno area. The closer that is close close to the scene. Matrion's another one in the hills of, of Fernando. So we have, used to serve in our restaurants, the one pairing and the special received that I've described before. And, with, one pairing with, our wines. So Normally, when the people comes to this task, they don't select, they don't order the food. But before they decide, what type of wine they want to have during the meal and we suggest the dish that they can bear with the type of wine. So is is vice versa what we do normally in a restaurant because this is a a restaurant with the special focus. Of course, in the wine, we are wine producer. So we want to promote before all all the things of the foods we want to promote and we want to commit communicate to our customers. What is the magic of Alerne of Alerno is not just a wine. I said, when I start a beautiful conversation with you, is, a legend and a concentration of two thousand and twelve millennium of culture of history of flavors of Campania region and also with the touch of love of passion of our family that is involved, totally involved in this beautiful job to be a one producer of for Lebna wines. Salvatory, thank you so much for spending time with us this morning. You have taken us. You have conveyed the magic of flat Fernando. The links with the great wines of antiquity and the great wines that you and your family are making today. So thank you so much for taking us to Villa Matilda, sharing your beautiful family story with us. The story of your father's passion and research. And I hope that our listeners who are located all around the world will be inspired first to try your wines, to find your wines, and then to come and visit. I send my very best wishes to you and to your whole family, and I hope to see you soon. We hope you enjoy today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time.