Ep. 167 Monty Waldin interviews Shenghan Wang (Lady Penguin) | Wine Influencers

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monty Walden. My guest today is Xinhan Karla One. Very perfect for now. Thanks. You also go by the name of Karla. Yes. Karla One? Yes. Just give us a little bit about your family. So you were born in China. Correct? Yes. Where about us? Which part of China? The hometown of hot pot, basically. Of what? A hot pot? Yes. So hot pot. You know, the the very spicy pot that Chinese people are for and about. Okay. A special dish. Yeah? Yes. Now, is that in the south or the north? The southwest of China. And which province or which area? Chondu Sichuan. So, Jose is Sichuan, so we said that's gonna squash spicy cooking. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Exactly. So, where did you grow up? Or what let's start with your family. What about your family? What did they do? My dad, he went to America at a quite an early stage, and then he eventually became an engineer. So how how old was he when your dad went America for work? I think right before I was born, in eighty seven, and I was born into eighty eight. Okay. So he was very good at math, you say, in mathematics? Yes. Yes. And he became what did he become after this? Computer engineer. Okay. You do have a computer engineer. So that's pretty pretty top stuff. Yeah. So he was there what in the eighties, then late eighties, nineties. Yes. So was he very successful? I think he's a very traditional guy, you know. What do you mean? What do you mean by that? For a family guy? Night? Yeah. Like family values and, stable jobs. And so he was never a hundred percent in for me to be in the wine industry. Actually, I remember when I was in college and I wanted to study wines. I told him to pay for my fee for the WSTT, and he was so angry. He felt like the next step would be me into one of those, you know, very when he thinks up drinking, it's all of those The negatives. Negative stuff. Yeah. He must have known you that you're, you know, you're not that kind of person, or you don't seem to be that kind of person. I don't know. I mean, he's just You seem very little head. Anxious. I'm sure he was. Yeah. So from China, so when did you start studying in the USA? How old were you? When did you see you went to college? So I actually, because I took a few gap years. So Not to you. No. Just one. A few. Few gap years, actually. My mom was crazy for one for a while. She wanted to get me out of the, like, the school system. So my mom's the very opposite of my dad. She felt like the the whole system and in the whole society. In Johnny talking about. Yeah. In China, in in in the world. Actually, the whole mainstream is crazy, and she wanted to get me rid of the bad influence from society, so she didn't want me to be in the school system for a while. And so I took some gap years. But then I eventually returned to the normal track and started my high school when I was eighteen years old. So that was, was that a Brown university? No. No. That was in high school. Okay. So, I it took me two years to finish my high school, in America, and then, So were you a bit behind the other children in terms of age group or not? Yes. I was two years older than my peers. Okay. Did they accept you, though? A year older, b year or woman? I have a big face, you know. So it I fit I blended in very naturally. Okay. So you made you make friends easily? I don't know. Sometimes I'm not an easy person, but generally speaking. Just to try and get those CV details. It was a bit of a battle. But we got there in the end too. So you also studied, in Paris when you, and I don't know a few years ago when you run about twenty five years old. What were you doing in Paris? I was I went to the Liquid and Blue wine program there. So that was, after college, I decided to really, you know, study wine. Why wine? Why wine? Okay. It was a long story. So when I was in college, I recorded some YouTube style video and it went viral on the web. Really? And so I got because, you know, where did the idea come from that? I mean, you're, you know, well, like a fish out of water, you're not in your home country. You know, China then certainly maybe was developing a bit of a wine culture, but by no means university, why would you end up in France in wine and then making videos for people that you never met before? Yeah. I was going to finish the story with my you know, viral video. And so it was toward toward the Chinese audience, but it was in a very sarcastic style. And, you know, actually, at that time, a lot of Chinese, we don't get sarcasm that well. And so, people thought I was the the crazy person I was acting, and I got famous because of that. But then I got very kind of attacked by the whole internet violence, and so I drank a lot at that that time. That was how I fell in love with wine actually. So when you say drunk, you meant you you tasted lots of wine. You're not saying having a bottle and guzzling a bottle every every five minutes. Both. Both. You know, I my friend gave me a gift card in a wine shop. You know, they have those sort of machine where you can you can just Yeah. Exactly. And I just, took a sip of every of different kinds of wine. And surprisingly, every wine tastes so differently. You know, if you're if you're not growing up in a wine environment, you've, you know, chances are you think all wines taste the same. So that opened a whole new world to me and I went very I was very curious outlined. So I, you know, studied more and more. The and the more I studied, the more, I wanted to pursue it as a serious career. And so after college, I worked in michelin restaurant in New York for a little bit. And then I heard that there was a really good wine program, in La Court and Blue. So that's when that went to yes. That's the time when I went to Paris to study it. Right. So you'd already you already got knowledge before you arrived in Paris then. Yes. Actually at that time, I was already doing the best city diploma, but it didn't eventually even until now, I didn't finish it because, you know, and then you're in a different country studying an entire different wine system. And then I, you know, did my startup and things goes hectic every day. So that never got finished. What I'd also say is why what were you actually saying when you were getting all the hostility on social media? What were you saying about wine that people found discomforting or annoying or why were you such a target? Oh, it was, it's very hard to explain in English, actually. Was it because you're a woman? There was like a no. Well, that's you. Maybe, but I was really acting very bitchy in the video because there's But did you do that deliberately? Or was that what you genuinely felt? Obviously, I did that deliberately because I met a lot of people. I was mimicking, and, you know, exaggerating their their men terrorism, you know. And so there was a float of, studied abroad students from China to the US that kind of, looked up to the American culture but forgot their own route, sort of, you know, no character. And so I was acting them. So you're basically getting criticized by people that actually should have been supporting me. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. In a way you kind of quite like that because it was like a double you were saying what you felt Yeah. And then getting criticized with people that weren't really hadn't really understood or listened to what you were saying, which is kind of the point of what you're making in the first place, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. People just being a bit superficial. Yeah. Yeah. So you must be, you know, going out if someone goes out for, an evening with you, either they'll have a great time or they'll find you quite challenging. Yeah? Oh, so far this interview is going fine. You know, but but you you're quite an intense lady, aren't you? I'm fine. I'm very easy going. Yeah. You are, but you're you're you're tough on the inside. That's you have to be for to handle that kind of criticism. And that can't be easy, you know, the age you're not under your own country and people being quite rude. I was was a very sensitive person who really cares about other people's opinion. So I really grew strong out of that experience, to prepare me for my later internet celebrity career. Okay. But how do you okay. Because one question, how do you I mean, how do you earn a living and how do you monetize your celebrity status? Oh, you mean now? Yeah. I mean, now I then I was the student, you know. So, I kind of live that wasn't a problem back then. Now, if I didn't start my company in just being an internet celebrity in China, that is the fastest this money making way you can ever you can never do. But now because you have your own company and you have to support now, our company has seventy people and so Does your company? Yeah. Yeah. You have seventy people that work for you. Yeah. So that's a big burden. And for all of the money you make from, for example, advertisement, you have to get it pulled into the company and hoping that the company doesn't fall or, you know, go go go broke in the next year, hopefully. So So what so how do you actually what is your revenue stream? How does that work? You're getting you're getting advertising, but what do you what is your site offering advertisers? What does it do? Oh, actually advertising we we never do advertisement for wine companies or wine producers. It's just some other beverage companies, for example, like Johnny Walker or Tennessee that sometimes we get occasional advertisement from, but that's not the part of our business. We sell wine. That's the main part. And we have China's largest wine community and wine membership. So, half of our income comes from wine members that pay us an annual fee. And also by wines from us for our membership price. And the other part of our business comes from our private label. So for the more entry level wine, anything below, say, one hundred RMB, we sourced wine from producers from around the world and, stick our own private label to maximize the value for our customers. So what are you what are your most successful private label is it? Which regions or wine stars are we talking about? Chile. We sell, like, for a private label, Chile is the best selling, and then Australia. We sometimes we do, we are selling for an, tree and Groonar Vallinger or ADA RMB. So so we sometimes do a little some something more interesting. We haven't actually found the the right private label line from France, even though you know French wine in China is huge. But but because we're re you know how hard it is to find good value budget wine in France compared to the other new world. So that we haven't had success in. We also have Italian wines. So what do you carry from Italy? Is that is that own label or is that, private label? Is that either the state's own label or your label label? So basically, you know, like entry level private label for our entry level one and not private label for our, you know, higher end wines. So your private label, where are you sourcing wine from? Is it red, white, sparkling? Everything. Okay. We're roughly, like, in tuscany or the Southern Italy, Sicily? Sicily. Okay. And what about this, the wineries label on the front? Where where you saw you, is it more prestigious adolescents? Are you still looking for donations or you're looking still for value? So it depends because for our membership wines, we have wines from, you know, one fifty RMB to more and a thousand RMB. So it's really, really married. And also, one of our the first project line that I started is actually a monthly subscription. So every month, you'll get a two hundred RMB, which is roughly twenty five euros bottle of wine, which is already quite premium. Right? And so members, they get a wine selected by us every month. And for that, we're looking for very prestigious region or very famous producers. And for that line of product, in for Italian wine, we did barolo. We did Amarone. So as obviously, we cover all the classic regions, the most famous regions around the world. So as to give our members a very comprehensive, view of the the wine world because those are the people who just start started to get interested in wine and you want to show them the best size as if you are like a tourist and you want to, you know, be shown to the the most famous site first, and that's the the purpose of that product line. Who's doing the sourcing of the wines? Is that you or you have a team of buyers or? Yes. I have a team of buyers. Also, my partner sits in charge of ours, the supply side of our business. That you're business partner? Yes. Okay. And he's Chinese, is he? Yes. Okay. Do you have permanent staff in Italy as well, in France or not? We're not that big yet. Well, hopefully one day we'll have station everywhere around the world. Okay. So you're great. So you're very ambitious then. It's an interesting question. I know if I'm a vicious or not. I have this sort of blueprint in my head and and I don't know how much is required to complete it. But I've know but I know that I'm not there yet. So Okay. How old So, and that's a very rude question to ask. I was I just told you that I was born in the eighty eight. Yeah. No. Okay. But So I was I'm I'm thirty now. Right. Okay. So you're thirty years of age, and you have your own, you have at least one, you have one company, one main company. Yeah. My company. Yes. I imagine you have other ones? Or No. No. I don't. So, I mean, how big are you in China in terms of in terms of your wine club? Do you are your members from across China or in one particular area of China? How does it work? You're allowed to sell wine across the whole true or not. So we're mainly e commerce based. We have our a store in all of the major Chinese e commerce websites as out as well as our own mini act. So that's the main main part of our business. Also, we have wine bars in Beijing in Shanghai, but it's more of a off-site center for our members to experience our wines and services. So that's not the the major model. So you you actually have your own bars, or they just do they have your own brand on? Do you like have a like a fee that you you don't actually own the building and the bar, or do you? Like, I I do. It's called Lady penguin wine shop in bar. Great name. Why lady penguin? Because You like penguin? My nickname was penguin. And, you know, one penguin has a fat belly, face it. But penguin you know, they give give people the impression that they are a very an elegant drinker and eater, you know, and if they walks very waddly and as if they're they're in a drunk mood. So it's a very suitable image for for a wine brand. That's a good one. I mean, I mean, I think that's probably quite popular animals. They are. Everybody's out of penguins and, and, you know, China's internet mongols, tencent, the mention of Tencent is penguins. So But without you, but you made the penguin choice independently of that, or did you look at that? No. I I it's a call y independent. It it really was my nickname. So Okay. Well, you're you're you're penguins are not the fastest movers of all time. Are they I have a friend who filmed penguins in, the antarctic, called penguin post office, which is the most isolated post office in the world. And he was there for about four months. So if he ever saw another penguin again, he was gonna shoot himself because, but, yeah, obviously, Bingwood's slow movers you are very quick in terms of, business and being a little bit ahead of the curve in what you're doing. And, I'm sure you have a very fruitful career ahead of you in terms of business. I mean, I can only kinda see your business growing. What do you think the challenges will be for you in terms of sourcing or in terms of the Chinese market in terms of, how quickly that is evolving? I think the major challenge is not knowing how to okay. The major challenge is that there is no path for you to to follow. Yeah. To follow because if any anybody ask a Chinese person in the wine business? How do you see the wine business or the wine industry in five years in China? Nobody would know. I was just talking to one of our producers in New Zealand and he was telling me that, okay, if you go to an American or British market and you work on it, you will know exactly what you're gonna get, but that is just not true in China. The channels are very fragmented and people haven't this I mean, the entire market hasn't decided how it's gonna going to evolve. Is it gonna be more online or offline? And for the offline, how where would the boutique wines go? Because now, there is actually not a very mainstream boutique wine channel. It's sometimes, you know, on premier restaurants and bars, but they don't occupy as much of the percentage of sales as in the traditional markets. So why is that is that because of the price or just because people aren't used to maybe drinking those premium wines, premium wines? It's not a question about okay. So if you buy like a premium wine in a five star hotel in China, it's gonna be more expensive than in America, in the same situation or in a, you know, like a nice quality restaurants. Maybe the wine searcher is one hundred RMB, for example, and on the restaurant list, it can be seven hundred. It's just way to the margin is way too high and Chinese, they know they are afraid of the rip off. So there is this whole insecurity around wine consumption that I am trying to solve now. And the biggest challenge for me is that I am educating the market, but you never know if you're also going to be the one who can, you know from it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. You will help me out. Sometimes, the education and the one who educate the one who profit are usually not the same guy, and that is going to be our challenge because we're doing a lot of, you know, contents and education, whether it is the online video or now that we're starting with our wine courses. So along the way, I hope to build a brand that the current generation of current young generation in China would rely on. And I think private brand is a is a great way to, you know, to make people trust in your mind selection and also the membership program too. So eventually my answer to your question on what's the challenge. Is that, like, from the very beginning, we there is no path in China in Chinese market now. We're just hoping that we can't, you know, created our path and there will be enough people that can follow us. So kind of a little bit like Amazon in a way. I mean, that's not not the best analogy of all time, but, you know, they've they've become a behemoth because their model of online selling is multiplied and they're kind of the go to brand for buying stuff online effectively. Otherwise, it's very fragmented in what you're saying and you hope that you are hoping you're gonna be a little bit like that in terms of wine. Do you sell other things apart from obviously wine? But do you sell like, decanters or or all the apparatus you can have, like, for for them, corkscrews, that kind of stuff. Just check all that sort of stuff as well with you? Anything wine style related, we we do. Key rings. We even have, like, two shirts. Course crew earrings out. Course crew earrings. Yeah. Must be very painful to put in. It's really cool. It's so so well. It gave you an elephant with your chairs. I'm gonna you've got quite small ears, so that's gonna be a little bit tricky. So we also we sell coffee. Coffee. Yeah. We sell a hang ham. Anything, you know, that don't mind? Mattresses, tea towels, golf clubs, vibraphones. Any say our demographic would like, we can sell. Cuddly toys. Cuddly toys. Tels toothpaste. We sell penguins, penguin toys. Do you really sell penguin toys? No. We don't. We we will. We will be selling. Do you sell real penguins? Yeah. Okay. Anyway, okay. So you got a lot of ideas and a lot of enthusiasm and a lot of energy. I mean, do you how well do you sleep at night? You got a lot on your shoulders. You you seem pretty chilled actually for someone that's got a burgeoning company with quite a degree of risk to it. It is hard to keep up with the energy level, and that has been a major problem for me. And so I I can't say I'm handling that well. And for I was actually joking with my friends saying, I am swaddling between the two stages. One is getting too drunk and one is getting too anxious. So it is hard to bow balance anything. It's not even between work and life. It's just balancing work. Are your family still supportive of you? Are they proud of you? That's an interesting question because my mom, like I said, she's an environmentalist. So at the beginning, when I started studying wine, she thought that my career would be to work for the rich people because rich people drink wine, and that was an exact my mom has a very grassroots mentality and she didn't want that to be what I do for my life. But then she didn't want she wanted to appear open minded, so she didn't not support me outright, but she was kind of grudging. But now I think she can see that how this might be a segue to educating more people to have a better taste, and it's not just restricted to, like, the rich people, but actually to everybody who to help everybody to appreciate life just a little bit more into, yeah. So so now she's kind of more at peace My dad, I think he still seeks at some point in my life. I'm gonna return back to the academy. For some reason, she thought that I will work in a college of doing some research work. This is still something he believes in now, even until this day. Because on with your dad, right? He must be also quite proud of you. Yeah? Well, it's hard to say. So but but but yeah. But he's quite well, he's gonna he's he's the mathematician, right? So he's probably for him, maybe he sees you as kind of illogical. Yes. You're following, like, some dream rather than, but you must share the numbers that don't we know successful business. He's still like the typical nutty nerdy professor, a type of character. You're quite nerdy. I mean, it's not like that hasn't rubbed off on you. You know, if you are a little bit nerdy. Yeah. But if you do I mean, that's a very nice way. You're a you're a nice nerd. Nice. Yeah. I'm glad to know. But, you know, if you see me on camera, I'm showing like a entire different personality. Oh, we'll video you next time. When you come back on, we'll get a video But you you look very relaxed to me. You obviously got a lot of responsibilities. I said it on your shoulders. You got a big idea, big project. And if it succeeds, I'm sure you'll be even more successful than you are now. You're a very good communicator, and you've been a lot of fun. Now gotta say thank you very much for my guest today. I've gotta transfer announce it's all I did beforehand. Shenhan, Carla Wong. Well, I'm gonna let you say that. Okay. So it's been really good to meet you. And, yeah, wish you every success. Yes. Thank thank you so much. Never interviewed a finger in before. It's great. You know, I thought you'd smell like kind of fishy and a little bit arctic, but you don't. It's great. You, you know, you've got a a wooden jacket on. I will send you a clip of, YouTube video where there's the colon collection of penguin slipping on eyes. They look very, very drunk. Wow. They probably were. They probably That was justified, me naming myself to penguin. Penguin tar. Okay. Listen, great to meet you. Thank you. It's a pleasure talking to you. Yeah. It wasn't you thought it's gonna be really difficult this interview. You. You're very skeptical when you walked in. Don't do that. You were, but you you think your brand is gonna go completely wrong because you do that on terrible interview, in the Italian wine podcast. That's the end of your career. Your dad would have improved right. Your mom will take you back under her wing. You'll have to finish your degree. You know, you start all these degrees in about four different countries. You never finish them. Oh, by the way, just on the side story, you know, not for recording purpose. It is the first, actually, you know, the the the turning point for my mom is that when she went to the Quinta Really vineyard with me. And, Vada Pollice Aliam? Yes. Before she didn't realize that, winemaking or vineyard work is very harmonious gesture between human and nature. This is the whole Chinese philosophy part. She is a lover of Chinese philosophy and culture. So she thought okay, wine, the, you know, harmony between man and nature. This is good stuff. Maybe my daughter will get something out of this whole wine experience anyway. So Are you are you into organic and biodynamic or not really? Oh, that is very interesting question. I don't I don't think that I am I have the right to comment on it until I really actually get down to earth with it. You know? Well, it's a good one. Get down to earth. That's a great. That's a great turn of her face. You know, I write to organics of Binos. I might I might use that as my next target my next book, you know. They're great. If you're if you're if you can't sleep properly, you just free one of my wine books, you know, just you'll be out you'll be out like a live at the three seconds. Just talk about all these lunar cycles and stuff. So I wanna say thanks again. Thank you again to my guest For telling us about your exploits in various parts of the world, but mainly in China, may you have every success? Thank you. That was how we did two words. You got twenty five minutes of interview. You said, do you wanna say it again? Gonna come to near some of it. I always have a problem with closing, conversation, you know. You don't have you don't have trouble starting one. That's for sure. He got forty minutes without me getting a question in. You know, it's like a machine. I know. We could hook you up to the power blind with you. May we all be well? Thank you. Cool. Nice to meet you. Yes. Nice to meet you too. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.