Ep. 590 Ondine de la Feld | Monty Waldin

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian in my podcast. My name is Monte Gordon. My guest today is Odin Dulafend from tenuta di Tabignano. Which is in Chingoli in Macharatta province in the La Marque region of Italy. And then welcome. Thank you very much, Monty. Happy to be with you. Okay. So the estate dates from the sixteen hundreds, you weren't around, obviously, then. What is your role at tenuto Davignano? And, tell us a little bit about the history of the of the estate. Alright. Let's start from me. I started, I'm graduated in architecture, and, I've been working as an architect for more or less twenty years. And, in twenty thirteen, I was asked by my family to consider taking care of the winery. I thought that the challenge was a very attractive, difficult, but is a a nice challenge to, to jump in. And so I started to, study a lot to be able to I was, I mean, I was around a wondering for a long time, but that doesn't mean to be able to run a winery. That is there is a side that sounds very poetic, but the reality is a lot of work, and you need to to have a lot of skills. From many different, areas of, of the winery that is legal side, the relationship with the, with all the workers in a winery, and you need to have the skills for the a neurological side and agronomical side. I mean, you need to know a lot about what you're doing. And today, we are moving towards a digital and green horizons that is quite nearby now, and so you need to have, skills to understand what how to be part of this, movement between the green, green future. The winery, it's, it's, has a two hundred and thirty hectares. We have, materials and wine. The, the, the, the, vineyards have thirty one hectares, and we are specialized in white grapes. So Verdicchio de Castel de Ezi. We produce around one hundred and fifty thousand bottles. We try to stay that this kind of dimension is our goal, to to have a quality and to and to control the quality be be without being involved in a big wave of a market that, can can end up, putting in big difficulty to keep the quality. So we hope that the market and that the future, we are we will always be able to, to maintain our kind of wineries that dimension and this quality without being involved in a big market of, of, big numbers. Yeah. I mean, a hundred and eighty thousand bottle sounds a lot, but it's actually, quite small. And hundred and fifty. A hundred and fifty thousand. Okay. A hundred and fifty even less. So it's it's it's manageable and, you're right to be able or to want to, premiumize, your offering, to to make the economics, work. It's a very beautiful area where you are. It's quite open, isn't it? You're in Elocarita Tabignano in Jingouli. So you have, it's a very bright and luminous landscape. Do you think that comes through in the wines, in the Vedicure? What is special about our area is that we are mid in the midway between from the sea to the mountains. So we are under the the same distance. So we are forty kilometers from the coast, and we are forty kilometers from the mountains. And we have a wind that that, blows going from the mountains till the sea every day and all the year round. These allows to have a, a dry area with a nice microclimate that, can allow wineries like us to to be organic without having, to put too much energy, too much product, too much work, and and we are lucky. We are is very, I mean, we are very lucky to be in this kind of area just now in our world that everybody would like to be greener and better, I mean, better with a with a land. For those for those of you that don't know, thirty five percent of the March k vineyards are now certified organic, which is, one of the highest, probably the highest statistic, from any major wine region on the planet. And, it's partly the mentality there, which is green but also the climatic conditions, and the terroir is very conducive to this kind of farming. So what on Dean is saying is very logical, and she's clearly going with, following nature and, and, obviously, doing a very good job. You, you say something very, very right because to be, sustainable is not enough to be sustainable for organic product on your winery, on your wine vineyard, but you you need to be economical sustainable. I mean, your economy, your business needs needs to run. And if you are in a area where it's very difficult to be organic because it rains a lot, because it's it's a it's a humid and, imagine the work and how much fuel you need to buy to use your, your machine to go up and down all your vineyards to, to be able to do all the the to give all the attention to your vineyards not to to get ill. So sorry if I don't have the scientific, words in in English, but I think, I hope I'm clear enough. So you spend a lot of maybe fuel to to to to use more fetal, medicine that, yes, they are organic, but instead of going one time, you need to to go ten times. And so you spend a lot of energy and a lot of fuel and a lot of, money. And so for us in the market area, yes, the mentality, but we are, Yeah. We are. We we are in a very good condition to go organic because we can go economical. It could be economical, a good business to to go organic. Because if you go in if you can see in the market, organic doesn't mean that your bottle, you can really sell it at a higher price. It's more a question that they asked today for a producer to go organic for anetic reason, not for business reason. So we do it for ethic reasons and not for business, but if to go organic means that your company doesn't doesn't produce enough income, then is crazy to to kill a whole country around organic. And so as we are we are in the market area. We are in the in the in the good in the good situation to go organic. Another thing that's interesting about your estate is your use of oak is, you don't use very much oak. I don't think any of your whites, see, oak at all. So again, you're, I mean, in terms of, the environment, that's a positive sign. But also it works very well with your with your with the with the way that you make your wine. Is that is that? Alright. So we use I just correct. Just, a little bit about that. We use oak only on the red wines for the, mic micro oxygenation. I hope it's clear, but we use only old oak. So we use it only for for the physical capacity of the wood to exchange oxygen, not really for the taste because we we believe in a, in a, in a, in a, in a variety, characteristic. This is for the red. For the white, a Verdicule is very special because edging, he has some evolution that give, some special silver, some special flavor, that are similar to the wood, to the wood flavor. It goes to goes to on a. It will go to, to to arbal notes, and match you match you, like, a spicy note. Some some people drinking and trying Verdicchio with an evolution of two, three years, they always ask, but does this one will stay on wood and and the the the the the answer is always no. It's just the evolution of the Verdicchio with the with these notes. Okay. Let's start with the the beginning one of your range. The sparkling white wine, which is Frizante, I'll test ifiro. Tell us a little bit about that one. Alright. Okay. On the wine on the wine activity, as a, winemakers, families belonging to the wine, activity. The need of tradition is very, very important. And the need to communicate tradition is very important. And sometimes it's too important and sometimes it's too heavy. And so we were in in Tabiano where we need something to get crazy. We need something to love something to be out of the box. Because our production is not out of the box. Our production is serious. He's well done. A lot of, a lot of efforts, but, we wanted to do some crazy wines. So we decide to go completely different And we have three different three lines of three wines that they are called. I love monsters. I love monsters because I love something that is completely different. We love, something that is not perfect. And the one is called the pestiferro. It's the it's the main is is the first one to be born, and is a is a pet nut, petilla, naturale. So we went we we went natural. So we use, ancient recipes to produce, petite wine. So, is is, is similar to the champenoise, a technique, but we don't do the de gorgement, and we don't filter. So it's the wine are similar to, wines with a with a Lee on on, sir Lee. So you have, the cloudy side with the deposit of the East Yeah. No no decoder and unfiltered. So it's, everything happens in the bottle. Exactly. So you start the the fermentation in the bottle. There is a re residual of, of sugar. That we're finishing we'll finish in the bottle doing the fermentation, producing the gas. Yeah. And it's called. It's and it's, Vadricio mainly with a bit of Malbazia and a little bit of Sanjay made as a wine. Exactly. Exactly. It's been quite successful. People like it, has a special special notes, and it's a bit crazy. And, yeah, it's it's kind of trendy, let's say. We we did it at the right time. So it's it's a nice, very nice experiment, and we are we are having fun. Do you know I made a petillon Natural in the UK a few years ago? It was Oh, yes. Yeah. It was the first one. It was organic. Yeah. And, but it was a white line. And, most of the UK is not not the same as the Marquay, so it wasn't as lush as what I imagine your wine will be a little bit narrower and a little bit crisper. But, it's it's great fun as well, and it's, It's a fun wine and people like seeing the yeast at the bottom of the bottle. Do do you have people when they come and buy buy a bottle? They look at they hold the bottle up to the light to see what's at the bottom? Yeah. They do. They do when we always it's very nice. And to to it's nice to produce videos. It's nice to talk about it. And, it's, in, in in in Italian, the naughty boy. So, and the naughty boy, usually, you call a young boy who who it's kind of loved by everybody, but it's a bit naughty. So the naughty boy is something you like, but, it it breaks the rules. So we we I mean, it's it's it's quite pleasant. We like that. We we like we like attention. We're looking for attention. We break the the rules, but we want to be pleasant. So outside the barter has a strange label. And we can say that it's, yeah, it's an antibody, but inside is well educated. The wine is well not is well done because it's done by our team of, analogist, and, and is well done. So outside of it crazy, inside is very educated. Beautiful, describe what's the next, one in the pests? Is it the orange wine? La. Lavergine is the virgin wine because he's, is the again, not manipulated, less manipulated. So it's a little intervention, and is a white wine build as a red wine. So it is a skin contact wine. So it will stay on the skin for between ten man ten days to one month. So it's not a very important skin contact, time. And, but it's very nice to to understand how the Verdicchio walls in the past when it used to be done that way because, oh, in the past, it was always, fermented fermentation with the skin. And it's very nice because you you have to to drink it as a red wine. You have to combine it with, meat, cheese because it's very, the the the notes are very, very strong. But again, the bottle has this knee on the on the bottom and you have to put it outside down and it has all the movement on the skin. So on on the on the on the on the on the on the bottom. And again, it's quite successful. More than in Italy, that we are, in Italy, we are a bit, lay back on on that kind of, trends. Like, maybe there will be more, trendy in in one year, two years, but is very successful in Australia, successful in Canada, in Japan, in the United States, in California, So what is nice is it start from the winery as, an experiment, natural wine with the recipes of our grandfathers, but it flies away very it goes very far. To travel to a new continent. So it's quite it's quite nice. And what's the third one of the monsters in the monsters range? The third one is a like the pestifro, but it's a feminine version. So it's a pink, sparkling with, a bit of lacrima, the morod alba, and it's called labirba. Labirba, it's, the, the, the, feminine version of, notie boy. He's a is a girl who likes to do many jokes and, sweets and, but a bit, provocative. And, so, Laverbe, it's, again, is a pet nut Rose. Is the last one? Do you drink do you drink these pet nuts with, food or or just more on their own? You can have them on on their own because because of being a bit cloudy, as the the beer that are there are artisanal beer, you know, the that are cloudy. You have the impression that is nearly more fulfilling. Is it right? It's like It's like an element. It's not just a wine. It's an element. You have the impression that they are a bit more dense, that they will take you, like, you can if you feel like a bit of if you are a bit, angry. Yes? You would like to have something to have a bit of calories, a bit of density. You you have the impression that you can have a a glass of a patillion material. There are more. Yeah. It's like those beers that you have with, yeast at the bottom, those cloudy beers as well, where you you don't really want to get drunk. You just feel a little bit hungry, but, you don't wanna eat, a huge meal, and you just have a a glass of beer or glass of sparkling wine with a little bit of wheat in it. And it's very satisfying. You have the impression that you can be satisfied for a while. The alcohol level is eleven point five degrees. So it's not it's not, high. It could be it could be as a starter. But I don't I mean, you cannot you you cannot exclude to have something to eat with. It it's nice to have it with with anything like a fry fish, fish, and fried. Fried fish. Yeah. Mhmm. Fish and chips, like something, all little burgers or street food. It's quite nice to have a to have the this Petiana trail with street food. Okay. Let's talk about the, the Vedicchio wines, because you've got quite a range. So what is your entry, the base of the, the pyramid, the entry level, Vedicchio de Castadie, is it the bill at all? The entry level is villatorre, even if we have even youngest one, but we use especially in the in the local area. Because in the market, the tradition to drink wine is very important. They drink wine every day, lunch, and dinner. And so you wouldn't spend you wouldn't spend like a villatorre. You would you have a an everyday wine. So we have an everyday wine. Organic too that is has is more dedicated to the local market. So from from is called Costa verde. So it's fresh, he's picked very young. So give us the opportunity to have a a la a lower price because the more it stays on the on the on the vines, on the plant, the more work you have, and the more expensive is the wine. So we like to have a very light and French version of of the Verdicule that that is very, very nice to. I mean, the Verdicule can have, is very versatile. They say, Okay. We can confirm that. So you can have the fresh version, till the edge version, the one that can, evaluate with the time. So costa verde is the first one. To evolve. Of course of it is that that face is east, doesn't it? So that's where you get that sort of crispness and freshness. Yeah? Okay. So the next one is the next one, Misco. Misco is the name of a river that rounds, at the ball, at the edge of the estate, and in the, in the, it's called mousone, the river. But at the Roman time, in the Roman time, the mousone was So from the river, we we gave the name to our vineyard and then to the to the to the to the to the wine. So he's a crew, he's a single vineyard coming from this, Vigniana has the is the best of our our our estate because of the exposure, because of the quality of of ground, limestone, and, and clay. So we yeah. So we we have dedicated, this land, this parcel to the Misco. The vines have for thirty, thirty five years now, thirty five years. And, the yield is very low. So you get nice concentration. So you is that one reason you make your deserve from Misco as well? Exactly. The Resaira is very nice because, as I was saying before, with the evolution of the time just just happening in the bottle, the verdict cure has something very special happens. And, I think it will be more and more successful to try and to have the experience of, Verdicchio of that has at least two, three years in the bottle. I I I I believe it will become successful because it's very, very elegant, powerful and, and, with a really nice capacity of of pleasantness. So now let's go into the dessert for the, Tavignano reserva. Alright. So as I was saying, the Tavignano reserva, the the the grape will be picked just a few days after the Misco, but it's always the same parcel. It will stay one year in the in the in the in the tank, on the on the lease without Batonash because we are looking always to the, the finest, expression of, of the Verdicchio. And and then it will go on the bottle and stays another year before to be to to go on the market But usually the reservoir is is three years after when he's picked. Yeah. It's not it's all that one has got that lovely, ah, creaminess and depth to it. I found much out it. It's got that, again, it's like a food You don't need food. You you're drinking, you're drinking food. If you're talking a little bit about the, the reds, Roso Picchino, I don't know if you know something about the rosso Picchino, but is, has a nice name because of Picchino, it used to be, a civilization in the market area before the Roman, E Picchaney. He's a wine typical from the area. It has a, a long I cannot tell you when he's been when he started, but it has a long history in the in the market area, and it's made with San Jose and Montepulciano. And from that, you understand how for for how long San Jose and Monteciano has been in the market, even if they are well known more in the county area or maybe more in Monteciano, but, the the the same variety has been in the market since, a long time. So, nearly before Christ. And the inventor, not the grocery store, you know? The inventor is made with San Jose Monte Puciano. I will have a bit of Cabernet sauvignon. We like it to have it a bit more international. And, it's you you speak at the end of, of September, strong. You we are nearly fourteen point five, fifteen degrees. And you really need, raw is rock and roll is, like, a very, alcoholic chocolate. And, the one of the I think the most interesting one, the most unusual one is the La Creama de Morodalba. The Babarosa, and that's from, Latrima grown in in San Marcello. Exactly. In the in in the area of, Latrima de Alba is a village, is, is an area from Tabignano, you need to go by by the seaside, and only in Morodalba is grew the the the variety of La prima de Morodalba. The notes are very special because when you have it on the notes, you have an impression that you will have something sweet and and fruity and, people really are are attracted. But when it goes on the on the par on the palate, on the tongue, it's dry, perfectly dry. So special, really special. What do you like eating with that? You like a sharp cut tree. It's very nice with a sharp cut tree. I wouldn't have it with a sweet, dessert. Even if you think you could go with dessert, but in the in the market area, we have it with a charcuterie or old dinner because even if it's is quite strong on the nose on the on the, then, on the on the mouth is, is, is quite, dry. Yeah. Shacutry and especially Sharcutry, I would say. Okay. Final line is the, vedicchio de Casteli, which is a hundred percent vericchio, I think. How do you make the passito? The passito, we make it, so picking the grapes at the end of September, and then we hand them on the room that is is spectacular to look at. It's like a, an art installation with all those, grapes all around nice wires. I would stay two, three months, that two months that way. And then it will go on the tank and do the fermentation on the tank. So it's ready more or less after after six months, but we don't do it every year. It's very difficult to do it because, if the at the end of the summer, it starts raining, it's impossible to do a passito. So let's say we do it every two, three years, we're able to do it, it's a big, big, big effort, physical effort to do the passeta. Yeah. But it's worth it when it when you get it right, It's worth it. Yes. It's very nice. Andine, I just wanna say thanks to you, and, I've been to the estate. I don't know. I should come back and see you And I really like the wines. They're beautifully balanced. They're so easy to drink. They're very clear, very expressive of of the terroir there. And they're not, over made. They're just understated and, and very well balanced, really nice Thank you. It's what we try to do, to do as less as possible and to be patient. Yeah. I try to do that with my questions just to ask as few as possible and be patient. And I'm not always, I'm always successful, but, I will I will learn from you. Thank you so much. You've been a brilliant guest. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Monty. Thanks, Hamdeeam. Bye, Chiao. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcast casts, Hemali FM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment product and publication costs. Until next time.