Ep. 774 Meta Luxury Storytelling In The Digital Age | Wine2Wine 2021 Recorded Sessions

Talian wine podcast, a wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner, is proud to present a series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Hello everybody. Welcome, finally after this hard time, we are live, not in person yet. We cannot wait to be in Veron again. Next year. Today, we are thanks, Vineethree, wine to wine for, let us do this great, live event. As I say, we cannot wait to be again in April next year in Verona for Venita in person. Today, I'm happy and glad to introduce, one of the greatest, communicator of wine in United States, not only. Matt Lane. That's, she will join us soon. She she won in two thousand nineteen Best wine communicator, and she also made two books. A seller for JPS award in New York times, and she's the chief designer officer for enterprise. And, she's the creator of one forty dot com. This is one of the best teaching website and not only that I never saw in, in my life. And, this is very important because teaching in general, but about wine, about the biodiversity is very important for us as well, like me, that's a work for a company. The name is Italy that we are, like, wine distributor and salary all around the world. But now, I don't wanna talk a lot, but I wanna say, Madeline is going to, to give us, like, a presentation for about thirty minutes. And then at the end, if you have some questions, you can send us your question. We have a q and a in the last fifteen minutes of this session. Welcome. Thank you. Thank you for having me. So when Kim, when, Stevie Kim was talking to me, she wanted to, hey, you should present. What do you wanna talk about? And we've been actually been doing a lot of things in at fall enterprises, which is the business that is behind, wine folli. And, this is in the ten years that I've been communicating wine. I've sort of been learning things and observing things as somebody who is trying to communicate wine. And we've sort of discovered some really cool things, and I wanna show you a little bit about what I know with this topic of meta luxury, which is it's an interesting I wanna focus maybe a little bit more on the meta today than the luxury because luxury is a big topic, and it was going to take a while to get into. But before I do that, and and discuss with this topic is I really want to tell you how I bought an air fryer because it's relevant, to this topic of meta luxury. And so this is ridiculous. It's it's like six AM, and I'm talking about air fryers. In San Francisco to you in Italy, so I find this hilarious. But what happened was this someone had mentioned to me that, they had an air fryer and it made delicious fried French fried potatoes that were super healthy because they were air fried, not oil fried. And what got me onto this concept of air fryers that kind of stuck in my brain was that, I'm mostly plant based. I run a mostly plant based diet. Actually, it's a hundred percent plant based at this point. And the idea of delicious vegetables that are not super oily and could be prepared quickly because she could bake these french fries and, like, I don't know. It was seven to nine minutes flat in her air fryer and she was super excited about it. And I was it sort of stuck in my brain. It was the inspiration piece. And suddenly, I got this in my head. What the heck is an air fryer? I went delicious fried vegetables, air fried vegetables too. And I started this process of looking for an air fryer and, like, wanting to know more about air fryers. Inspiration happened, and suddenly I had this goal in mind. I want delicious, quickly prepared, air fried vegetables. What the heck is this thing? So I started doing research. And I was like, there's probably gonna be just a couple in the marketplace, and I'll just pick the best one, and it'll be easy. And I will buy it, and I will have an air fryer net like soon. So this And therein lies the next problem that I encountered was a wide array of air fryers on the market. Not only was there one. There was maybe more than fifty air fryers when I started looking for them. There were, and they ranged wildly in price, like, from about thirty five dollars an air fryer to about two hundred dollars an air fryer. And I couldn't figure out. I'm like, what is going on here with this air fryer marketplace. How do I even pick out an air fryer? I just want delicious fried vegetables. Now I have a problem. I need to figure out which air fryer to buy. So what did I do at this point? Well, first thing I did was I started looking at review sites, consumer reports, the the, why why what is that wire? The wire that the the online review companies that's always reviewing electronics. And then I even went to Amazon. And all the reviews that I kept seeing just made me furious because they didn't really talk about the they just talked about air fried vegetables. This is what I want, but they didn't really talk about what the device was. Wirecutter. Thank you, Rebecca. And that's what and that's what I was trying to figure out is, like, which one is the one I should buy, which one is the quality I want. I have already associated the goal to this. I've associated a value, and the value wasn't necessarily money. It was the fact that I'm gonna put this device on my countertop, and it's gonna take up precious counter space, and that was how much it was worth. Like precious countertop space. So I was willing to spend money because of where it was going in my life. Alright? So just to put that in your mind. Save that for later. So I start researching, and I get mad at the reviews. I can't really decide. I still can't decide what I want, although I did sort of point you to the major brands, which was good because there were so many brands I really couldn't figure out what? So, like, was it a fly by night brand that just new way? What the heck is this new way? Are they only an air fryer company? Did they just, like, appear and start making air fryers and they're just gonna disappear tomorrow? Like, what's going on with that? So in my research, and you have to you have to understand I'm I'm a research oriented because I studied wine, and I'm like, well, I can figure this out. I ended up finding the patent and looking at the patent, the original patent for an air fryer, which came out in the nineteen eighties, early nineteen nineties, and it was for this industrial sized air frying. We wanna know who owns that patent for air frying technology. It's Phillips. And so at the end of the day, I purchased a good old Phillips air fryer. And with my goal, it was the most expensive one. It was two hundred dollars. And it sits on my counter to top today because as a working woman with very little time and a plant based diet, I use that thing all the freaking time. So I think with this dual anecdotal story tells me about my air frying experience, which is kind of embarrassing, is that it kind of comes down to this how our consumers make decisions, how we make consume decisions as people. And this is fundamental in considering what your product is and what your brand is putting out there. And I say product, It is wine, and wine is a beautiful thing. So it's much more than just a product. But it at the end of the day, people are purchasing this thing. It is a product. And this is essentially the steps that we take when we make decisions. We have a goal in mind. Maybe it's having a delicious wine with dinner. Or in my case, I want quickly prepared air fried vegetables. And then I and then I associate a value to that. And that value goes beyond just the cost of the thing. It goes with the association of the importance we put with that either that experience, that moment, or that like, if you're a wine collector that ex long longer term experience that is involved with purchasing wine. And then what we do is we go through a process of accessing what's out there. And each and each option we look at, we determine how likely it is going to be to meet our goal. Then we select something. And usually after that, we go, well, was that worth it? So the same thing happens with wine. We maybe we learn about, Sacramento, which US folks, the if you're in the US and this out, please let me know if you know about Cygrantina. I'm sure everyone here does, because a, it's Italy, and b, we're all wine people, and Cygrantina's crazy, unique grape, and it's super fun. But let's say one of our readers on winefolly learns about Sacramento, because we've talked about it a lot, and they become curious about this wine. So they're going to be like, you know what? I just read about this grape. It's got super high polyphenols, as far as it's, super high in anti antioxidants by the highest of the there's very few wines that are higher than Sanarantino, and I wanna try it. It's bigger than cabernet or to show me this wine that is bigger than cabernet. And we associate a value to that experience. Maybe we're gonna share it with our buddy who is a cabernet lover, and we need to show him what big wine is. So we might be willing to spend more money for this wine based on the value of that experience. And so and or we're just we buy wine all the time, and we only spent twenty dollars a bottle, and that's it. And we're just hoping to find some Sabarantino that we can buy. So we take a look and we assess what's out there in in the world, and this is how we do it today. We look online at wine shops and see what's available for shopping. We look at recommendations, tasting those. Maybe we use an app like Vivino, and see how San Gruntino show me what's on, in Vivino and give me some ratings and reviews. We see what's available in the marketplace. We look at producer information. You know, I started looking at these brands, Phillips, speaking of Phillips. I ended up looking up stock portfolio, the stock ticker for Phillips and, like, was assessing their market viability while I was researching this air fryer. Like, I went that deep. And I am certainly as I am certainly a fraction of the consumer audience out there, but that is a behavior. That is a a fraction of the consumer audience out there. And then we look at bottle information. Maybe I wanna buy an organic wine. I I just have an organic diet And I only want organics and or biodynamics in my life. And so these things are important to us as consumers, and we take them all into consideration. We make a choice. And then we see, well, wait. Well, was this worth it? Is Sacramentoino this great? Wow. You know, but we buy more, honey. Order a bunch more. I want a whole case of that stuff. So meta luxury, getting back to this topic of what is meta luxury. I wanna focus on this word meta. MedA is I feel like it's it's the hot word that nobody ever talks about because behind everything else, it's in front of things, and we we ignore the work meta, and we look what's past meta. Meta is a reflexive word. It essentially transforms the suffix beyond it and makes it something else, metaphysics, metaphor, metamorphosis. And one of my favorite words is metadata. And this is if some of you who are photographers know this word, and we'll talk about that in a second. But this word is the reason why wine folley is as successful as it is. And I'm I'm not I I can't express this enough. Meta information is talking about the thing. What is the thing before you actually do the thing? So information which describes contents of other data. So Do you have a database full of stuff? Well, what's in that database? Tell me about that. And in the world of the internet and the world of online, we use metadata all the time. It's page information. It shows us the contents of the page. It describes what the article is about. It's the TLDR, too long. Don't read if you guys have read it bands. It's it's describing what's happening within this before you dive in and actually look at the data. If you're a photographer, you know this word well. This is a photo that, my husband took of me in twenty thirteen. And, if you can see here, this is the actual metadata from the image. If you take this image and you right click on it and you say get info, you can access the metadata of an image. It hasn't been stripped. A lot of pros will sometimes strip their metadata because they like to be real trained. Like, what's going on? I don't know. It's a mystery, but most images have metadata, and you can actually add more metadata onto an image. This is just the basic stuff that's associated to a digital photo. For example, I can see the name. I can see what date it was, the date it was taken. So this was taken January in twenty thirteen in Seattle. Actually, this was taken in Seattle. And a really nice hotel. This is the size of the image. I can see what camera brand I u that my husband used to take this photo. The model, it was a Canon sixty d camera. I could see the color profile, the color space, the lens he used. There's a fifty milliliter prime lens. I could see that. I knew we had a prime lens. But it's fifty miles. I forgot which lens he used to take this photo, but there it is. It's the fifty. And I can even see the f stop that he took. So it was at one point four, and the exposure time was one one hundredth of a second. So that is what the data used to take this photo. And what's interesting about this data is if you're a professional, you can take one look at the metadata and you can be like, that's too small for print. It is eight fifty six by ten twenty four. That's gonna be no larger than, like, two inches by three inches tall. And I can tell you there just by looking at this information about this image. But if you were a photographer trying to recreate this shot, you could use this information to recreate the scene. Oh, I know I need a fifty millimeter lens. Right? So this is useful stuff, and it was shot on a can of sixty D, which has a two thirds crop sensor. So if I'm, I won't get into it. It's more like an eighty millimeter. That's all I gotta say. So The same thing is true about wine. Not only do you have this delicious stuff in the bottle, but there's all the information around this delicious stuff that tells us about what's inside of bottle. And I'm not just talking about tasting it. We have where it comes from in the world. Who made it? The winemaker who made it. The aging method used on what? The type of oak, the, amount, and and then we can talk about the actual wine itself. The alcohol by volume, the pH, the as, the actual the acidity, the total acidity, the dry extract, the amount perhaps an indicator of tenet. The residual sugar, so how much sweetness is in this wine. Color, nose, tasting notes, a a bottle size, bottle weight, case size. You know, all of this information, this technical information is something that people use. And is this something that consumers use? Not necessarily. But it is something that's extremely important to professionals. So for example, this is some of the information that we can sort of take from this bottle. There's the photography. There's how was bombed and going back to organic or biodynamic or conventional farming and and the wine. The the producer's history, that brand was the story of the brand. The accolades and awards associated with Val. Now this is something that I've seen wineries absolutely take advantage of and use no matter what is using the accolades, but there's so much more going on here. And what I think is really interesting about this is who uses it? Who uses this information? And, this these are the people who are going to be carrying your brand's story out there into the world. And they absolutely need this information. And the these are the people that need your information. They are importers, retailers, distributors, restauranteurs, weinwriters and educators, content creators like myself, enthusiasts. Seriously, like, at the at the consumer level, there are the enthusiasts and collectors who can read this information and interpret it and do things with it. And I will give you an example. I'm going back. Let's take a look at this bottle of Sagrantino. I I made it up, but I did use based on sort of Sabrantino traits. So because I wanted to be somewhat, like, I mean, if I was gonna make up a Sacramento, this was this is my Sacramento. It has fourteen five percent ABV. So it's it's relatively high alcohol and the pH is three point six seven. If you're an expert and you look at this and you and it's got a little bit of residual sugar, point two five. That's, it's very low. But it it's going to affect the way that this wine tastes. At three point six seven pH, it's just above that three point six five zone. That's kind of like the shipping point, where we go over from like a tart wine to a smooth wine. And then it's right. It's got a little bit of residual sugar and a higher alcohol level, that's gonna make this wine taste big. This wine's gonna have a bold body and it's gonna have a little bit of fruit on the flavor because of that residual sugar possibly because of the pH and all this balance. Put together. And with that dry extract, we're probably looking at a wine that's pretty high tan. And we see the deep purple color. If I saw these stats on this wine, I would be like, buy now for American audience. Like, I know that my buddy who's never tasted Sacramento before is going to taste this wine. I'm probably gonna decant it, but he's gonna taste this wine, and he's gonna be like, oh, Madeline. This is some serious wine you've got here. I'll be like, yep. I knew you'd like it, buddy. Let's drink more. So this is one of those wines, an example of using that information to explore wine more and to understand wine more. And this is the reason why tech sheets are so important and why so many distributors are always asking you and breathing down your throat for this information because it's useful. And we must have it to tell your stories. You, as a winery, you could be running around telling your story constantly. And you feel like you're a broken record. You're always saying the same thing over and over again. Still valuable. And you continue to say that thing, but allow the wine to help tell the story too by by displaying this information and and sharing this information with more people because we know how to interpret it and we can help other people find great wines. So I want on that note, I wanna show you something really cool because you might be asking, well, how do I actually get my meta information out there. Like, what do I actually do? So, this is something that we just launched today. This is the Bordeaux line guy. This is This was an effort. I will tell you. Bordeaux is a complex region. So what we have here is, now as a wine communicator and a product designer, I'm super excited about the consumer experience getting into wine. So I want to help people learn about different regions of the world. So we created this region guide. It's got video. It's got, what it has is all these different sections. So you can go and you can learn about the region of Bordeaux. You can see a map here. You can explore the different regions. You can see, actual live data of wines from the region. And, let's just, I'm a thick right bank. I'm feeling merlot today. This So this is a Liberornet. This area contains some two really famous appalachians, Pomerol and Stitemillan. So we'll just click on a promo and get get us going. So as a consumer, we can read through and we can learn more about Pomerol. We can learn about their amazing blue clay soils and how it affects the grape varieties that grow there specifically more low. And we can maybe see a few wineries that make the here's their blue look at that blue clay. Isn't that crazy? And then we can actually see wines from Pomerol. And so this was an effort we did in collaboration with the CIVB, the, the, essentially, the consortio of, Bordeaux. And, they added people added their wines. This is this is seventy percent merlot. That's neat. And so we can go through here and take a look at the wines added in Poneril, and we can actually learn about All these different wow. That one's ninety five. We can learn about all these different wines from that are represented from this region. And what's cool is, and I'll just go go there. Is the wineries have been added, and each winery has essentially their own profile, where you can learn about who that winery is, their their history, where they are located. And, their winemakers who make the wines, and the winemakers can be associated, to that bot their bottles. And, we can find a wine and learn more about it and see what's in the bottle and the growing conditions, that vintage, the aging, possibly food pairing, and all this meta information about a wine. And, you know, what's interesting is, like, there's multiple vintages. We can go forward and backward, and we can learn about different wines over time because collectors. And, you know, over time, we we create history essentially, when we're making wine or not myself, but when these amazing winemakers are producing these bottles of wine. And so in order to create this, in this data, we we actually had to have a database. And, our partner company is Global Wine Database. And so as a winery, it's a product information management system. And you can just get going and you can sign up and people would add their wines to this database. And then, my team at WineFolly would, take this information as API for wine information provided directly from the producers and produce this incredible guide, which, you know, we can learn about all these different wines of, Bordeaux. And this just launched today. It was so interesting. I was running through it. And I was looking at what's here, and Bordeaux has a lot of rules associated to their wines. And, I thought it was really interesting that there's actually some chardonnay growing. It's declassified. It's a Vinda France. But this, this is some chardonnay wines that are actually being produced in, bordeaux of all places in the world of unbelievable. So this is something that we've created. This is a tool, you know, when we work with the with the region, these to to go to go public. All the wineries can add their information for free. You can set up product management and and, create your profile and everything. But there's also a paid version which creates a a one off site. If you wanna spin up a trade site, which has all the information about your wines. This one's we did for Catana. Or Catana's awesome. And she's this one of her is that the wine that she lives? Which where's her wine? She lives this Shard and I'm trying to find it on here. She's they she makes a lot of they make they make quite a lot of mine. That's Contina Alta's pretty cool. So we can look at container's history of wines that they produce and take a look and learn about those wines. And, they these ones are very well well filled out. You could see it's a it's located. It's just gonna be good acidity, thirteen point nine ABV, and then wow. We've got a lot of notes on this line and and their total acidity, which that's pretty good for a I think this is a tasty one. And we can also create a PDF of that information. So it's very easy to to set up and to get going. And, this is what we created so that I, as a communicator, can tell more stories about why. And, this is What I'm hoping to do, in the long term is to create not just Bordeaux, but a whole suite of guides and then eventually a visual wiki to the world of wine, but we can learn and discover wines of the world and and see what's out there and start making these interconnections through not only their regional connections, but their technical information. Like, if you like cabernet, well, there's plenty of cabernet in Italy. Let's find out about that cabernet, Italian cabernet, or or New Zealand Cabernet from Oakland area or, you know, the the the opportunity is limitless. And so we so when I'm when we merged a company, Windfolly would go a wine database, the entire goal is to create this visual wiki to the world line and to help wineries become discovered because in this day and age, we have to be digital. And so that's the story that I have about meta information. And, it's it's definitely something that I'm super passionate about. And I'd love to talk about that, but I'm also happy to answer any other questions that you might have about this idea. Okay. Thank you so much. For real, you know, first of all, I wanna say, I don't see a website where I can find a higher prior because, you made me feel that I wanna buy one and I don't know tonight. With my friend, fries, if I wanna drink Sacramento or alcohol. But my question for you is that I think that we have not, in, in our state in with us, there are, like, a consumer and someone that's maybe that is a tribute or or a retailer. Sometimes I feel let's, when I see these incredible contents, and then I wanna invite maybe about how you integrate the teaching component to, let's say, the, market component. If I wanna buy this job maybe submission before or the Sacramento that we so far, we have a lesson from you like today or what that we can buy your website and correct me if I'm wrong. And then at the end, they say, okay. I wanna buy it. And I know that the US is pretty complicated. Sometimes, to get those wine everywhere in the state because some state have ruled some other state out there. Can you explain us how you work and how you maybe collaborate with the with the producer to sell those wine as well? So I'm not a I'm not a marketplace necessarily on the line, although we do have, it is possible on these sites to have it create a buy direct button if if people want to link through and purchase. But I think what is important is this discovery method and the exploration method and creating an adventure to learn about wine. And in that adventure, you become motivated to spend the time and effort to find the wine that you are looking for. And, you know, to solve the US path to market is a big problem that all of us as need to be involved with on some level. And I think, every, you know, everyone I talk to who is running a wine business in the United States is like, yeah, we gotta work on that. Right? It's it's not gonna be an overnight thing. But what we can do is continue to offer this information and show how much is out there because we as consumers suddenly start wanting things, and then we make it happen. The as you can see in the United States, are we have are the people of the United States have a lot of power to change things. And so if they want something, they will they will make it happen, and we can change regulation, and we can get involved in in that layer of, you know, three tier system. But what I'm also seeing is, you know, businesses like Vivino and, you know, that have marketplace is built in are Sort of depending on quality information to sell the wines. They need a quality information to sell the wines. And so Global Wine databases is the API. It's the it's the tool that I am going to be integrating with retailers and importers websites and all these other things. It's like the runway of information. And my goal is accuracy because wineries should have the power to control their information ultimately because it's their product. Right? If Phillips makes takes a photo of their Phillips air fryer, that's the photo that they have contributed to the world of products. It's not some, you know, consumer like photo. Although, those will be out there, and that's acceptable. But Phillips is the first source of truth on the Phillips air fryer. And every winery deserves to be the first source truth on their brand and their products. And so that's sort of why we create that's sort of why this database exists is to be that source of truth. But then what we build on top of it, like that region guide that I showed you, that's what wine filing made. And that's our that's our take on the information is we love education. We love to teach you about home or all and the blue clay soils that make this delicious lush merlot, and then you want to buy those wines, right, or then you want to try those wines. And then I wanna give weiner is the opportunity to be like, I make pomerol. This is my pomerol wine, and maybe I'm not imported to the US yet, but you can see it. It's out there. It's truth. And and so that I guess that's what, I I guess that's what I'm what we're trying to do. I I will admit, like, it's not an easy path to market in the US, but it I think it's it's solvable, especially after twenty twenty. We've seen the rise of digital and online communication just blow up. And every single retailer that I know that I spoke with on twenty twenty was like, that was our biggest year ever. So I I don't see this changing anytime soon. I think enough people moved over and and had the ease of shopping online and the joy of discovery in that experience. And there's just gonna be a need for more of that. Alright. I'm delighted to have another one. That's maybe, you know, we have some produce or some distributor that's, maybe one because you said before that you can be your website, correct, you know, like, and, as, as you say, it's not a marketplace, but you can book the scripture on your winery of how how it's work. How we can, you know, if I am a whiner, I'm not there yet, how we can approach it. You select the binary or the exact interaction between whineries and, for your how it's work. If I can. Don't know if you better than my request. You know? I'm Trim trying to understand your question a little bit better. You're saying how do I pick the wines? Or Well, yeah. How you put the wine or even not that you just say I'm not in US yet. Okay? Mhmm. And, my wine and need contents, and they're gonna be on your website. How can I help you? I I So with, with these region guides that we've put out, we work with the, commission, the Wayne Commissioner, the Wayne Consortio. And then We have an open call for every single winery in that region to create a profile and add their wines and it's free. So we have like an onboarding session and then people add their brands and they add their wines to the guide. And the cool thing is is that guide is dynamic. So as each vintage comes out, you can add more wines, and it's it's free to use. It's a product information management tool that is for wine specifically. And as that guide, as you add a new vintage, it goes directly into the guide because it's because it's dynamic. So that's the free version, and that version will work as because it's an API because this data is stored in a database. If I have say a retailer who wants to come in and use the API to represent the wines, online, they can access the API and add and have access to the wines that are added into this database and put it in their their online retail store. And so they don't actually have to type in all the data and do all that thing. It's automatic with the API. And I I see that as the future because every single person I talk to in retail and distribution who are doing online businesses are essentially typing in the information individually every time. And you will know what happens when we do that is we introduce errors. So if we can control the if we can have a little bit more control where the only person who's making the errors is the producer, which is everybody makes mistakes, like at least it goes down to the brand. And they are in control of that information. And and a perfect example that are wines that don't exist, you know, and they show up on maybe a review website or something like that. And you're just like, What is this wine or faux wines? Find wines that are are pretending to be something else that they're not. And I think we're gonna see more of that, in the future and with the with and with digital We really wanna create something that has, transparency and, and communicates directly from the brand. So when right now, we have a premium version. It's, like, twenty. It's I think it's forty dollars a month a month, but we're doing it for twenty right now with a with a beta or it's it's live. But you essentially can create a trade site which has all this information, but I wanna do a lot of other cool integrations. Like, maybe it's a Shopify. It it automatically puts your wine information into Shopify if you have a Shopify online store, and then you can sell your wine that way. So there's a lot of things that we can do with this tool. It's just it's it's just one of those things where it's like, as a winery, I don't see still to this day, even after twenty twenty happened, more wineries became interested in online. And I am, like, you should be interested in your product information representing it online. That's the first thing. Is let's get your product right? And then we can work about work on Zoom meetings and all these other fun stuff that we're doing online. I will answer. There is a question. Someone is asking, are you gonna extend piece to the smartphone app because now I think it's just on the Yeah. It's right now, it's just online. It's a web application. And, this can easily be spun into a, app a phone app as well. And we're looking into that. I, you know, we we have a bunch of ideas and it's just like, which one do we choose first? To me, I really wanna make great products for consumers to explore wine. So that that app, I'm I we've been stalling on making on sort of what we've been building these tools, honestly, is what we've been doing in twenty twenty. We spent all twenty the tools since twenty twenty one. Making five region guides and figuring out all the issues with that design model. But yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Cool. I'm down. Yeah. You'll know if someone else has some other question If not, I wanna just maybe give him some more information. You you mentioned five region. Now which region the one that's, you are more focused on. We you just saw I just saw Bordeaux, and you talk about the seven the consumer are asking you as well to have more information about some region, I suppose. Right? Well, that's a great question. You know, we look at a lot of data from consumers because we do get millions of visitors a month on our sites. And, the thing that this is the it's the obvious answer is is is the answer. And it's the things that people want the most is the things they ask about the most. So champagne, pinot noir, Cameron seven y'all, like, it's it's actually that simple. Is is the majority of the users are asking these very basic questions about wine. And so the thing that I keep thinking about in that equation is how do I show them more? How do I lead them into this simple topic that is Cabernet sauvignon, and I bring them into this entire world of wine and extend them to, hey, if you like Cabernet sauvignon, you might actually like Sacramento. And so this sort of relationship between great varieties or styles of wine, you know, categories. This is full bodied red wines we're talking about. Cabs in one end, Sanarantino's on the off the high other end of that. And the but they're both bold red wines. And so when I look at communicating, I try to put this person's question, we could put it in a box and serve them the exact answer that they want. But to me, that's not enough because it closes off the world of wine. It doesn't allow that person to learn more. It doesn't give them serendipity to discover more about wine. So even in our books, we'll have, that we've created, we'll have a section on Cabernet sauvignon, and we'll mention other similar grape varieties. And I'm pretty sure narrow diable is one of those wines that's It's very similar in a lot of ways to Cabernet sauvignon. And and when people make that leap and they make that that connection and they try and narrow, they're like, oh my god Italian mine's really interesting. I'm interested in Italian one. I didn't think I would be because I've only ever tried Kianti and I didn't like it or whatever their their story is. And, that's that's excite to me, that's exciting. That's why I want a database full of amazing wine brands and wines is with this information, I can start making deeper connections. Like, we can we can associate different grape varieties to each other or create content that does that and displays different wines based on a taste model. Instead of based on a regional model, which is what we've done in the past. We basically we've basically organized the movie store by director. Being like, if this is the director and here are all the movies this director makes, But what we should be doing is, like, here is the drama section, and here's the comedy section. And here is the coming of age girl story section. Like, we can have all these genres based on taste and flavor first. And then when you get into it, you can find out the director's really cool or follow an actor, you know, and you oh, man. Like, I'm a Matthew McConaughey fan. I wanna see everything that Matthew McConnell has put out. Like, We can do that too, but we've gotta start with these basic human connection to wine, which starts with what's inside your glass and how does it taste and do you like it? I think we have just a few minutes left. I don't know if there is another question. If not, SST, we've always say in her speech, we need to be exactly on time. And, if not, I wanna say thanks to you and thanks to everybody that, listen, plaza, today, and I think it was great. Please go on by more dot com because I think it's a great website, great concept, and, the passion that's mainly improved on teaching us about what she's doing what she created is, is great. And, I hope to see you soon and see you in person. All of you in verona, next year for finally, I'll be in Italy back in person. Thank you so much. I don't know if you had something else to add. If not, I think you wake up early. Maybe now, not a glass of wine, man, maybe a coffee. And you see the sun in my bag. Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much. Thank you, wine to wine. Thank you, been Italy. And, to you, Missy. Okay. I'll grab you. Well, thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, qualify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, and publication costs. Until next time. Hi, everybody. Italian wine podcast celebrates its fourth anniversary this year, and we all love the great content they put out every day. Chinching with Italian wine people has become a big part of our day, and the team in verona needs to feel our love. Producing the show is not easy folks, hurting all those hosts, getting the interviews, dropping the clubhouse recordings, not to mention editing all the material. Let's give them a tangible fan hug with a contribution to all their costs. Head to Italian wine podcast dot com and click donate to show your love.