Ep. 782 Multisensory Expanding The Wine Communication Toolkit | Wine2Wine 2021 Recorded Sessions

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong Russia, New York, and Verona. Think you make the cut. Apply now at vin Italy international dot com. Italian wine podcast. A wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner is proud to present A series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm Central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Hello, everybody. Hi. It's wonderful. It's wonderful to be here. If not in person, at least as closest could be managed, while Hong Kong remains on its three week quarantine regime. I am very excited today to have, Maggie Enrique from Krug here with me. We're both going to be talking about different, different means that you can use to expand the toolkit that we have for talking about wine, really, expanding our sensory horizons. Part of this, obviously, is to give us new tools for communication, but on a, on a kind of philosophical level for me anyway, it's definitely about positioning wine as on a par with the other arts. You know, we have, visual art that that speaks to the eyes. We have music that speaks to the ears. Wine is art that speaks to the olfactory sense and to the tech thousands. And I think as an industry, sometimes we let we let a public, a skeptical public push us around and say, look, it's just the beverage. And I think as so many of us know that that simply is not the case, there there are wines that are the equivalent of pop songs or posters. There are wines, and, you know, that's that's great as well. There are wines that are the equivalent of heroic compromise. So we need to, we need to become more confident, more sure of ourselves as an industry that what we're doing is really as worthy of attention as any visual or, audio works. So first off, Maggie is going to be, presenting about krug and the history of krug and music parents, which I think is an extraordinary story. Maggie, as I'm sure many of you know, is the CEO and president of krug and husband since two thousand and nine. She's also spent more than thirty years as president or CEO of multinational or global companies in North and South America as well as now in France. So quickly, Maggie, I will hand over to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much, Sarah, and hello to everyone. It's my real pleasure to, to to share with you what has been this journey, as, Sarah says of trying to find new ways of enjoying our our wines, our champagne, but especially in this journey where I was just looking for analogies to simplify the message. We discover something that I would like to share with you. And that is an experience that can be that can happen in any house and anyone can leave it practically anyone. So I would go in the in the presenting some slides. I prepared for you. Because I think images help us to understand better what we want to say. So the house just a brief, little story about the house because it's important to understand the house and the origin of the house to to to be able to to really understand the composition of the different the champaign's house house. And so the the story of the house of crook is a story of this man Joseph crook We arrived in Champagne in eighteen thirty four. Just to place ourselves, Champagne is, is at that time is is booming, is is really growing. It's becoming very important. Everything is changing in Champagne at that time. He comes from Maens. Maens, when he was born in eighteen hundred was France. And, in eighteen thirty four, of course Maens was already pro prussia, which is in Germany today. And, you have to see he would see left, mains already in connection with wine. So it's interesting. He knew that a small brewer next to another, a very close would produce to two different wines. This is extremely important to understand what happens after when he arrived in Champagne. This is a Champagne offer already by that time. All houses will produce a regular champagne every year. And only in these good climatic years where you have an homogeneous behavior of the soil in in principle. This is the champagne approach. You would then make a vintage. And vintage will always be the selection of better wines to make a better champagne. This is in general the approach of Champagne. It's never van der terroir because in Champagne, you don't have van der terroir. It is by area because Champagne is extremely fragmented to one hundred and eighty thousand plots in thirty thousand actors. So it is the way champagne has been developed. And you have to see that eighteen thirty four by the time Joseph arrived in Champaign. We are talking about almost one hundred and ten years more than the first Champaign House which was Renar. And so the industry was well settled. And for him, he was annoyed with the idea of not being able to create a great champagne every year. So for him, a good house should be able to offer to his clients every year the best the house could produce. And with this genius idea in mind, he started developing. He he he just developed one key idea. And his key idea was, well, if I try to understand every single plot as one y, as one element as he called it, they called them, and you're gonna see where And he says, and I have a library of very many colors, from nature, of very many of these wines from different years. I will be able to every year recreate the most generous expression of champagne. All flavors and aromas of champagne together. And this is the best I can offer to my clients every single year. It's I cannot control climate over a year, but this I can do every single year I follow plot by plot as one element. I just built the library with wines from many different years and every year I will be able to receive the colors from nature and look for the missing colors to create this multicolor champagne. So this is his idea. He developed his idea He found he met somebody who believed in his ideas. And by eighteen forty three, the house was found. The house of crew was founded. As a result of an encounter with another a house owner who liked the the ideas of Joseph and invited Joseph to become a majority after four four years of secret, ex experiments just to make sure his ideas were were feasible. And so by eighteen forty eight, he was quite old forty eight at that time. He was almost sixty today. He was afraid to die and he knew he was doing something absolutely unique. So he decided to leave everything written to his son. And this is the fabulous small book of the founder that was found for the first time by the grandfather of Olivia Crew. Olivia Crew is sixth generation. He works in the house today. And, his grandfather found his little book which was kept in a wooden box close for hundred years. And in nineteen seventy two, the grandfather of Bolivia Paul to found this box and discovered he was looking for. He was trying to understand why the House of Cook had such a different approach to the rest of Champre. It's not better. It's our worst. It's just different based on a different objective. Remember, He wanted to create the best he could offer to his clients every single year. So you see, he wrote and here you can immediately understand the philosophy of the house because Joseph wrote to his son you know, to create good champagnes, we need to start by having good terroir and good elements. That that is the wine result of wine plops, the plot wine. And then he says something that talks about his obsession for quality and he says we could have obtained good campaigns by using regular and or even mediocre elements. But these are exceptions on which you can never rely or you may damage your operation or lose your reputation. So you see, that, at the same time, He says the most important, care has to be taken to the different levels of the champagne creation. And then he says something that makes his house so unique. He says a good house should only create two champagnes of the same composition. Means the same quality. No difference in quality. And he says champagne number one he's dream this most cherished expression of champagne every year, and then he said the champagne number two will be the champagne of circumstances to create some ears, but it will be the champagne of circumstances. So improve the wind that is not a selection of better winds to make a better champagne. But it's a selection of weinstein better tell the story of that year or if the selection of those musicians which will better play the conversation of this year. So you see after one hundred, almost one hundred and eighty years in in in nineteen twenty twenty three, this house has many other champagnes but everything is with the same philosophy. So we have the vintages. We can always offer two vintages with the idea of people discovering how different they are because they just refer to different circumstances of different years. You have, of course, at the heart of the house group ran away. You have collection of, vintage, which is to show the beauty of time on our campaigns. You can ask, why don't we have the collection of Proq grant you a and you are right. Since ten twelve years already. We're keeping bottles of ground QA with the yeast inside for them to become one day collection. Probably it will be in fifteen years, but they will come out one of these days. And then we have the role say that was created in the 70s. And at the same time in the 70s, they had these, the discovery of out of six actors, they bought a fifteen plots in in many we found the clothier Minille solist in Charonet from Minil Surje. This is not the most important, village for the house of group, and Charonet is not the most important grape. So the house Henry Group, when seven years looking, for a way to treat with onboarding just our most important village and pinot noir just our most important grape and this is the way the solist of uh-uh pinot noir also appeared in the in for the first time in two thousand and seven and it was in nineteen ninety five. So this is the the what we offer, to the market. And you see, of course, champagne number one, it's the most original champagne of the house and it is, exactly, what our founder dreamt and the reason of existence of the house of proven. You know, most terrorist expression of Champagne independently of the effect of the year. The champagne number two is the music of the year. It's the champagne to express circumstances of the year. As I said, and we have the terroir champagne, which comes from his what he said in the little book, the elements is a preliminary as I said. And they you close that morning. So you see, we have the solist. We have the point. This claw is the point. The vintage is many VIN the three different grape varieties and many different plots in one single year. And then the grand jury is at least ten different years, the different plots and different grapes. So you see we used to call these from the point to the universe. In two thousand and nine, we already were talking. We haven't found the little book yet and we used to talk like this. In twenty eleven, there is, a Rick Bomar who is an encomte donabe in the word wine in France. He was describing, a wine with music And I called him and I said, what are you doing? And he said to me, this man doesn't know anything about wine, but he knows a lot about music. So I described the wine because he wanted to know I described it in with music. And I said, how come? And he said, yes, Maggie. Don't you know, every bottle of wine has its music? And this remained in my mind because we have this soloist. We have the music of the year. And we had the music of Champagne. So we said, why don't we bring music? Music, it's going to be, something that will make people, it will be it will be easy to understand the house. And so we just call this, tasting from the soloist to the full orchestra, which is what Crewranco is. And we went deeper and we understood that the house has a musical approach. What we do is that every year for us, the the vineyard, the the plot is a musician. The gray, the type of gray is a family of instruments. The the year is the score. You see? And so we go plot by plot. It's going to be one one. And the sound of the different musicians of that year will be auditioned one by one. We will seat every year around two fifty new musicians. Of course, we know who they are, but the score will be different. The sound will be different. And then we have today one hundred and fifty musicians in the reserve They're getting deeper. They're getting rounder. When you taste the oldest that has been there since two thousand and six, you can feel how deep it is, how, profound, how round how it can't. It's like uh-uh wise. So they these musicians that are in the reserve waiting for them for for the house of the telemaster to select them to go into one of the creations they get deeper and they get bolder and they get rounder. And what the house does is during five months, you go plot by plot as a wine and you taste, we taste them for five months, It's exactly like auditioning, musicians. This is exactly what our, tasting committee does. This is our winemaking team in Julie Cabille is our telemaster. We have at the end of, of the five months about four thousand tasting notes since eight years, everything is digital. So we can follow the profile. We can follow how these musicians are evolving. The ones in our in our research wines and some others. The new ones coming also, we we understand how the plot is evolving according to the work we're doing in the vineyard. And so every year, everything is there to be tasted, to be discovered, rediscovered to recreate every year the most generous expression of champagne. A selection of the wines of a year with a selection of musicians in the reserve wines to recreate this symphony of champagne every year. Every years can be a tribute to Champagne. We use the three grape varieties, and we go all around the region of Champagne. Why it doesn't have to be grand cru only because we go plot by plot. So we go in in in the in the where we have specific flocks in San Jam with our growers and their fabrics and we have many in all our campaigns, which are not the claw, of course, but it's always there. So it's always this idea of triple champagne of creating a symphony of champagne every year. It will never be the same. Two hundred and fifty musicians are coming and the hundred and fifty are evolving, so it is never going to be the same. It is going to be inspired by this idea of always recreating this fullest expression of champagne. Since twenty eleven, we decided to put this crook ID in every back label of every bottle of crook, there is a crook ID you can go through Google, through tweeters, through a group dot com, or in an application that is the only three things. Crew has done so far, which is an app that this year and next year will be in Android. And through this idea that you get the story of the bottle, you get some tips like never drink a good never taste a good champagne in in in flutes, never too cold. You get food pairings, but you also get the music that has been selected or created by different musicians for every one of this campaign. In twenty eleven, twenty seventeen, everybody of Cook Grand Kuwait, and then in 'eighteen, could Jose as a addition. Edition means the year, the number of years, the number of creations, the number of times, the the dream of our founder has been recreated. It's once a year, So this means it's the one hundred and sixty eight year that the dream of our founder was recreated. You see, and then the champagne number two will be always a different proposition. Two thousand and four with about freshness and luminosity two thousand and six is about roundness and generosity. So every single vintage will have it will be represented and will represent the the the composition of the year. So with the time we got connected with the music, we did some experiments where we realized that music was even impacting the tasting, and we started the project program that is called in the house crew group equals. So we invite musicians to come to the house. First, we invite them. We used to invite them for them to select the music that, they feel is the music that connects without champagne. And since two years already on three, we invite them to come and to create, to compose for every one of the sham banks. And I'd like to share with you what Ozar Carey who who knocked our door in twenty fourteen when he saw that we were working with music. It was interested because he's a researcher, he's a composer, he's a producer, he's a professor, he's a philanthrop, philan philanthrop and and he wanted to understand what we were doing. So he's been working with us in in researching and in going further. And I would like to invite you to listen to his three compositions. The compositions he made when he tasted crook clothing in two thousand and six. The composition he created when he tasted crook two thousand and six, which is the sound the house of crook has captured as the music of the year. And then Krupp ran three sixty second edition, which is the symphony created around the year two thousand and six. And he composed three pieces of music, and I'd like you to feel how he goes clearly from precision to breath, which is exactly what we do when we taste these three champagne. So let me invite you to feel what he translated as sensations into music. So you see this is exactly what you feel and you feel this translation and when the music is being played, you will feel something happens and the taste. And I will explain to you why. So how does this happen? Since the beginning, since twenty thirteen musicians come to the house, Eric, who was our telemaster, he continues to be, he's behind and he supports. And today, Julie Cabillos thirteen years worked with, with the rig is a Stella master, and he's just backing him her. And he is he plays Piano. So he understood very rapidly the idea, and he has been critically helped in in building this program together. So he talks and now with Julie, they talk to the musicians and they find this common language. How to translate sensations into, sensation into, music and discretives. And then the musicians will compose. I'd like to invite you to one session so you can see how this happens. The So you see this happens in in every session and you find all these, different proposals of music, compositions, or composed in the past. Music, that is there for you to enjoy and listen with a little high, sound. You need good sound at home, and you can have an amazing experience. With your champagne and the music. And so we had gone even further. We invited here Cam. It is the Institute of Sound in France. And during eighteen months, we selected ten different plots spread it around the region of Champagne, three of each, great variety of chardonnay, pinot noir, and, and, four, it was four of pinot noir. And we just for eighteen months, the teams, the winemaking teams work with the engineers translating sensations into musical proof, and today you can listen to the sound of these ten different plots. And this helps people to understand what was in the mind of Joseph with when he had this idea of creating this symphony every year. And you can feel the sound of a pinot noir from the mountain of rain south, how different it is from the fifteen kilometers up. In the mountain of range, in north. So this is a very interesting way to feel and understand what we call the the base wines, which is very difficult to taste because they are just a period of time and they are in general difficult to taste because this is a lot of high high freshness. So this is a yurt. This is a place where we do tastings with music at the house of krug at the end of our garden, which is for fantastic experiences. And see, Later in twenty fifteen, I said this is too strong. And we went, I said science was behind. And as a matter of fact, this intuition was confirmed, child spends in the University of Oxford. She's studying disconnection between hearing and tasting. We had a worship with him with two chocolates. I rated one extraordinary, the other, but not good, and it was music, the different music that was creating this sensation. So because of that, because we realized that looking for an analogy, we discover really an effect, something that impacts the tasting. But in addition to that, we discover that we could do good to people because we could probably fund some research. So a major decision was made in the house when we understood that there is a physical reason for it. Your brain, the taste is very close to the hearing, and the hearing makes that kind of vibration, and it helps you to discover new flavors in the smell, even if the smell is a little further, but you may and for sure in taste, you may discover if the the music is well selected, you will discover more flavors and aromas you haven't tasted before. Because we thought we should do something with this discovery, we created a foundation. There is, the phone call for the music. It's since two years already that invest in research in art and culture and in education and solidarity taking music where the music doesn't arrive. So we have some beneficiaries And this is a a young foundation, but with very promising object. Just to conclude, I would like to share with you how we see these and what is our vision. And you see, we have a very organic approach into a vineyards. We're bringing our growers with laws. And this is to get more precise, more pure expression of every terroir. It's an obsession to understand the terroir and to bring the most precise and beautiful expression of every one of these awards. And we are building now, in the Claude Monet, what will be ready in two years, in twenty twenty three, I would say is this fantastic theater with the best perfect acoustic. It's the place where conditions are ideal for every single one to be born for every single musicians musician to be discovered. And so all our wines will be born there, the whole blend and the bottling, everything will happen here. And this is already in construction, and we will have it in two years ready. So you can see I can guarantee you that improved the best is yet to go. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Maggie. I think it it's such it's such an incredible story of how this slight tweak in mindset, right, using it using an analogy is actually the blossomed out into this extraordinary program that's really come back and shapes the way that you're producing as well. So I I think it's a great illustration of what what we're trying to talk about today, which is bringing bringing the tools of our other senses into thinking about why and to expand our thinking, right, expand our horizons. So just to come back quickly to the the beginning, what I was thinking of when I was putting together this session was very much sort of the practical elements looking at some ideas in the world of how, nonverbal communication is being used around wine. And hopefully prompting you with with these two stories, one for Maggie of a very, a very grand project, a very ambitious project, and then my own story, a little bit little bit more modest in scale, a little bit more just about my personal journey with combining visual thinking with wine and how and how I think that that sort of shift in thinking again can be used for different, for different ends. So first of all, I wanna talk about some external examples, not my own work, of wine and the visual world. I think there's a range of of purposes to which visual tools have been put from trying to communicate as clearly as possible, I put up wine fully who I think have done an amazing job with infographics to try and help people perceive wine in a way that's not so intimidating, right, that that this idea that you can communicate clearly about the way that a wine should taste the flavors that you're likely to find, and really kind of puts an almost a scientific, lens on it to the much more evocative, approach taken by projects like where they're combining on existing paintings and kind of the aura and the feeling of those paintings, with the wine that they're working with. And then sort of a hybrid of the two with a brand. I think of like an Australian brand, either in Yon, where they've invited, artists and designers to adapt their logo each year to fit the wine, in the bottle. So really a variety of different tools, but most of what I saw when I first started thinking about this in a really concrete way in twenty eighteen. When I was thinking about how can I as somebody with a background in art think about communicating about wine using visual tools? What I saw a lot of was very, prescriptive, very trying to clarify what is in wine and sort of removing a bit of the in in my view, a little bit of the magic. This also was something that happened through the process of studying for the master of wine. Much as I appreciate the the educational aspect and really the depth to which I was able to go. You do, in a sense, begin to lose a little bit of the, magic it's so much about objectivity, right, and finding flavors that are there for everybody and structures that are there for everybody. So when I looked at creating my own work, I went back a little bit to my background. I studied, painting at Yale University before becoming a, a master Hawaiian student, long before becoming a master Hawaiian student, and was really focused on conveying conveying subjective experiences. And so I thought about, well, what what can I do to bring a little bit of the magic back to the way that I think about wine? So I was really looking for something that communicated without losing a personal angle. And, collage seemed to be the obvious tool because in a way, for me, it was very analogous to the way that I taste wine. Right? We had these little fragments of memories of things that we've tasted once or seen once text, touched once, and they appear sort of fragmentary. It's very rare that we smell a wine and we think immediately, oh, this is raspberry and nothing else. You know, otherwise you might as well have raspberry jam in your glass. And so I thought about, you know, how it is that we can, we have these sort of hints and moments of things and really what it boils down to on some level was the color, the color and the shape, these two very stark visual elements. And in fact, this is reflected also in the way that I structured the tasting for the Via for the Van Italy International Academy. Is it's very much about color families and also about shape, which is a combination of structure and texture. And so the the crux of the work, really is in these, in these two elements, right, in the color and in this contour. With a visual with a visual meeting, at least with a with a still image, we don't have, the benefit of music where you have, time and sequence. So I thought about it, as something that you read from top to bottom. Right? So the contour, mimics the way that the wine feels when it enters our mouth. So in this particular instance, it's fair. It feels quite shy, quite pointed and sharp. It fills out a bit through the middle, and you really get sort of a structure and a tannin, firmness through the middle. And then again, tightens on the finish. And this contour, an interesting example of how much, synesthesia plays into any, any sensory experience. Actually, when I was watching, the film the other day from the nineteen forties, the Disney film, fantasia, there's one sequence, in which the line is there. It's sort of a, a line that the conductor is speaking to and they have instruments playing and the the line sort of wobbles out and creates all of these fascinating contours that reminded me so much of my own contours that I that I was creating in, in my visual tasting notes. I think again, colors, colors, lines. It's all, it's all different, tools, a sensory expression that that span between different different senses. So one of the first ways I put this to use, after having some builds it up on Instagram, I'm not really sure what to do with it. Was working with regions to talk about regional styles and the flavors that one could typically and textures and structures that one could typically find in certain wine styles. So I worked with, Van de brocon. I'm working at the moment with the Roan Valley, but I've worked with, wanting Spain, Barossa, the Barossa Valley. Just to try and create images that reflected a regional style more so than a than an individual wine. Another, a further development, I guess you would say, was that I tried, for a while, with an online retailer, creating images that related to very specific wines, that I would be sent to try. And for this, because we were focused increasingly on fine wine, I moved from a from a space where I was creating sort of a visual diary of every wine that I was tasting to really focusing on experiences I was getting and single instances I was getting from tasting one wine. And so I found that I was moving away gradually from the sort of generic fruit generic fruit imagery, generic, spice imagery, more towards textures and increasingly towards these little hints of, of shapes and colors, sometimes more recognizable as fruit and other, aroma descriptors, but really, again, reflecting how in that moment in time, it's always these kind of fragmentary moments of of memory. Then increasingly as I started to do more, philanthropic projects. So in this case, it was an auction that I put together with, jalapeno Romani, where we looked at Italian icon wines, and really thinking about wines that have deep meaning, for the region or even the country where they come from. So the one that that you see on the right is, beyond De Santi, Arizera Prunello, being a wine that sort of birthed, an entire genre, we can say. Or, Granbusier is the one in the middle from and so increasingly, as I was focused on these fine wines, on these iconic wines, I began to delve beyond the momentary experience of tasting the wine and thinking more about what is it? What are all of the thoughts that we're having when we're tasting wine? So rarely is it just about the sensory experience It's also understanding the history, understanding the context, the the personal history that you have with the wine. Did you know the winemaker? Have you had conversations with them? And trying to start to reflect some of those elements in each of the images, in the case of the Bione Sante that that mechanical wheel, just how, the wine has sort of, has evolved through a period of increasing mechanization, in wine making, and yet has remained so close to the land also. So it started to it started to be more than just about the momentary sensory experience and more bringing storytelling back in through the visuals. Now communication is is one way that these, that these tools have been used. Sometimes, in my own work, writing for magazines, so here, the look a little deeper is an article I wrote about, central European wines, for Tatler, where I'm the wine editor. But then also, again, it was these iconic fine wines that people, a number of magazines chose to place on the front of the magazine. In some cases, even people would be seeing knowing full well that people would be seeing these images and not necessarily knowing, right away that that it was about wine. And I thought creating this this wonderful, moment of discovery when people realized what it was about. And I think creating an equivalence, in a way between, the position that a fine art, this very vaunted position that find visual art holds, and and wine, which increasingly, we're beginning to understand is not, is not any lesser, than its visual and audio counterparts. Finally, a project that I, started three years ago and that I think is in, in some way, the apogee of my work, combining visuals, but also here tactile sensations. So it started from a series of images that I created around wines related to this idea of the natural elements. So for me, the elements was a way about thinking about one that in some ways, is slightly reductive. Right? It it reduces, all of the complexity into a single idea. But in some ways, reflected a lot, the way that I saw people, in the market, particularly in China in my research thinking about wine was in terms of these, sort of, bigger terms, freshness, mellowness, fruitiness, and I connected that back to the elements. And so I started making these visuals. What what would my visual tasting notes look like if they were about expressing a particular element rather than necessarily a wine? And this is the one that you see on the left for water. And it was with the idea of creating glasses, wine glasses that would help bring out that element in the wine. So in this case, water, making any wine that was served in that glass feel fresher. More delicate. And I realized that it starts actually from the visuals. Right? From the moment we look at a glass, we have an idea of what of what something is going to taste, taste like based on its color, but also its shape. And then it's the sensations. Right? It's, we found that there was a very important difference between feeling a straight surface on your lips as you are pouring wine into your mouth versus a rounded surface, the lip, that you get on the the fourth one from the left, the earth glass. I think relating, in fact, Maggie, to to some of Professor Spencer's research, that I saw on chocolate that where the ones with the straight corners seemed more bitter and the ones with the curved corners were sweeter and, more gentle feeling. And we took this to its logical extreme. So it was this combination both of the visual sense and the tactile sense to actually try and impact, in a meaningful way, the the experience that you have tasting wine out of glasses. So I'm sorry. I know we are supposed to have time for question and answers. We ran a little bit over, but if there is just one that somebody would like to like to pose at this point, we're happy to take it. There is a nice comment, and I and I completely agree and I and I support so much the the work that is Sarah is doing because it's a way to take people off the rational, rationalization of wine. Wine is there to give you pleasure. And whatever we produce and create is there to give you pleasure. So you are the master of your pleasure. And it's so interesting to focus into sensations because when you focus into sensations, you forget about rationalizing. And yes, it is music, it's universal, and it has helped us enormously to make people understand the house for the experiences of tasting the music. And if you had heard what I said, you can do it. You can try to to to loop what is the music that seems to be the one that goes with that, wine that you're having. Doesn't have to be crooked. And, and, and you will find that if you taste it with that sound or music you selected. And you can feel more flavors, more aromas. Your selection is good. You can even do a contest with some friends, and it can be so fun. And at the end, people are really paying attention to the sensation. And I think this is what the whole idea is about. Absolutely. It is that empowering of the individual, like, to make their own choices. That was the thing with the glasses. And so we did we said, you know, there are universal glasses, but it's really about creating the experience that people want for themselves. Right? People like wines that are fresh or they like wines that are fuller, and it's really essentially about removing this idea of objectivity, right, and right, and wrong. And this is the perfect one for this. I'm just saying this creates the experience that you individually want to have. Exactly. Thank you very much. Thank you all so much. Thank you for for your attention, everyone. That's good to see you all soon. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, HimalIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and break the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, teaching. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. 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