Ep. 1038 Brazil Update After Bolsonaro & COVID | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Good afternoon to everybody. Luis Batistello, Italian one Ambassador, and, it's a big pleasure to moderate this discussion with Bernardo Pinto. Bernardo will tell will tell will make an make us an updates about the Brazilian market after both scenario and COVID nineteen. It's a pleasure to talk with you, Bernardo. And, so I would like to briefly introduce Bernardo to, to our audience. Well, Bernardo, he's a specialist and one in spirits, by the WSC team in London. He was the first person in Latin America to obtain the WSTT diploma in wines and Spirit. She is the he is the technical director at Zahill wines in Sao Paulo. He manages the company's portfolio. He also lectures electricity courses and consults for companies and private consumers in Brazil. Bernardo is also an official, Sherry Educator, and a financially international academy ambassador, as well as part of all the extrusions of the Institute of Moines since two thousand and twelve. So, welcome to the Spaniel Bernardo. I I'm sure you have lots of things to tell, about the Brazilian market right now, about, the change and the habits, of consumers, how things change related to, to the government, to the politics or to, you know, the new habits after COVID. So please tell us about your your subject and, I'll be moderating the questions for our, for our, our guests. Can you hear me? Is it okay? Yes. Okay. It is okay. Great. Great to meet you, man. Finally. Yeah. Thanks for the introduction. Hi, everyone. Good morning. So this is a follow-up on a session we did three years ago, when I was in Corona, unfortunately, I wasn't able to come this year due to COVID restrictions. And, I I did prepare some slides for you to see. I actually have enough things to say for about a week of presentations, but we only have thirty minutes. So I have to be quick. And I hope I can, convey, a little bit, about our situation here in Brazil. I was planning I am planning not to get very political, so I I don't want to discuss the political situation. I'm going to focus on the wine side of things, of the economical side of things a little bit, but the idea is to update whoever saw the last session and before whoever wasn't able to attend two thousand eighteen. There you go. You have my first screen there. So, three years ago, it was when you were talking about how Brazil can be and a learning country in many ways. But when you talk about business, when you talk about wine, specific, there are many peoples, many difficulties, many obstacles. And we focused on the fact that it is, it's not a poor country, but we have many poor people. And nevertheless, there are many opportunities. So I'm gonna give you a tool and an update because then we were about to see the elections and the results of the elections, and we were very uncertain about the results. And of course, never mind the elections because then came COVID and things changed a lot. So I hope I can give you some insights. I just wanted to thank one intelligence for the data they provided. There was a lot of data in twenty eighteen and they updated the main the key facts for me this year through Rodrigo, who is the, manager here in Brazil and why next his company, but I'm also going to show you some, very specific data provided by IdEL Consulting. They audit, duty, numbers. They they audit the the, importation numbers in Brazil. So it's quite precise. Let's go to basic numbers. So we we are about two hundred million people in Brazil from which about one hundred and forty million adults. So, potential one consumers, it's quite a lot of people. We have been downgraded in last year's from eighth to theteenth economy in the world, which is sad but a little bit it was predicted. We we could see that coming. We've been going through a real well, we live in a in a constant roller coaster in Brazil in many ways, specifically politically and economically speaking. So we've been downgraded, but nevertheless it's the thirteenth economy in the world. It's quite a a powerhouse. It's a huge country as you you will see. And just recently, wine intelligence announced Brazil to be the fourteenth most attractive wine market in the world. And I I think, and I hope you see why in the next, few minutes. We, last year, called Ygreneal, they they collected data from imported wines and nationally made locally made wines, we consumed about fifty five million cases, nine liters cases of wine, which is not something to, discard. And thirty percent, about thirty percent of that was imported wine. And and that's a very important information bit of information because that's that's quite a lot of wine, but it's also, an indicative that there's a lot of space to grow. And, we're looking to it. There are the fact many obstacles as many of you probably know already, and I'm going to focus on focus on those for main issues. I was well, I have good news news and bad news for you. I'm going to go through the bad news first so we can end with, a sweet finish on the palette and not the bitter one. And, If anyone has questions, you can use the platform on swap cards. You can send us the questions on the live discussion on swap card, and Luis will make sure I I answer your questions. May notes, because first one is decreased purchasing power. We have been seeing that the devaluation of the rail has been steep, and, the GDP grows very slowly. We had a few years of negative growth. And, well, I'm talking about the last ten years or so here. And maybe someone from Europe look at our numbers and various, very small GDP growth, and they go well, it's about the same here in why why why worry? Well, we're not a formed economy. We're in full motion. We do not have all of our ground covered. The cities are very concentrated in some areas. I'll I'll make sure you can see it. And, slow GDP growth is is very painful for us. So it's been very costly. Things are getting very expensive. And if you consider the average income in Brazil, which is relatively low Well, it is low. It's about four hundred and sixty dollars per month. There is, there isn't many people who can actually well, relatively many people who can actually afford drinking wine. If we look at the whole two hundred million inhabitants, it's a tiny percentage of the population, but good news in a in a in a while. Well, When when that's when when I talk about fifty five million cases, you have to consider. That's why you have to consider, there is a lot of people who cannot afford imported whites. So in those fifty five million cases, we have about sixty percent that are actually nonvenipro wines made locally in Brazil. So most of the wine consumed in Brazil is, American varieties, table grapes turned into wine, and they're obviously not very not exactly refined. And they do not talk about place. They do not talk about, they do not exactly, able to match with food. They're just some alcoholic, very sweet drink that people can have or very, little money. Nevertheless, in the last year, specifically, Vineifera wine, Brazilian VINifera wine gained ground against non VINifera wine. It was an important increase in vinifera made wine by the local producers. Whereas imported wine decreased just slightly. So we kept importing wine. We are selling more vinifera, Brazilian wine and people keep drinking, of course, non vanilla wine because costs, it's very cheap and, most of people can only afford that. So this is a an interesting graphic, an interesting table it shows you how, our economy impacts the the wine trade. So you can see. Let me turn on my laser here. Luis, are you following this? Did did you know about this? So we're going from two thousand fourteen to twenty twenty one. And this is the exchange rate against the dollar. So two to thirty five ais per dollar in two thousand fourteen. And today well, as of Friday, I didn't check today how how the market opens. It's only ten AM. So, on last Friday, we were at five forty six. It's over a hundred and thirty percent. Increase in, value of the dollar against the the rail. And, you can see huge leaves sometimes, like last year, and that in that the line below is the impact or for the actual FOB price for nine liters cases in average for each year. And you can see that there is an impact. So When the the market's relatively constant and stable, there is some stability in price. And we try and after, after a couple of years of stability or at least exchange rate stability, we get on our feet and we get the prices rising again and we get better wines coming in, but then things happen and then the prices go low. And last year was quite low. So you can see most of the wine you bought it was at less than twenty five dollars per nine liter case. And this year, we saw already this is year to date. So just up to August, we saw a slight increase again. And Had we had more stability, either due to government government issues or COVID or whatever, had we had a lot, better stability. I'm sure we will be seeing much better numbers here. And, that's because you will see we are actually quite involved with wine in Brazil. This is, another interesting study by PDL consulting. Where they split the in the imported wines in ranges. So you can see the bulk of imported wine is below thirty five dollars per case, FOB, and out almost the half of those are below nineteen dollars per case. So most of what we drink is still quite cheap wine. And the wines are It's too cheap. Yeah. Go on. Yeah. So if I can make a comment, so the the the last graphic you showed us is, you see the evolution of the currency, so, you know, versus, the US dollar. And then the average price of a nine nine liters case decreasing. Yeah. So, that being said, can we, state that importers? And you know very well the importer situation in Brazil, because you are the director of an important importer. We're looking for alternatives or wines that will be commercially more viable to, diminish the impact of the currency for the markets. Thanks, Luis. That's a very good question question because it is first and foremost, what happens every time we have a devaluation of the of the currency. So everyone tries to adapt because people, if they spend, I don't know, fifty Ais a bottle, they'll keep spending fifty Ais a bottle. So we have to provide, or maybe they will go lower. We have to provide them with something at the price range, price level they are willing to pay. So, yes, we go out and we try to find something that is suitable as in, quality, at least a little bit of quality, and try to keep the pricing high highs the same. Of course, that means lowering the the FOB price, the export price from the from origin. But also a lot of new players are coming in. So last year, we had an increase of seventeen percent in number of importers in Brazil. There's like something like five fifty importers in Brazil. It's quite a lot. Yes. It's quite a lot. And some of those guys are actually looking for niche wines very high quality so they can sell to their niche public. We'll be looking into that. But also some of those guys are huge companies, the dot com companies trying to reach the largest audience possible. And what they do is they bring in a lot of relatively or very cheap wine. Yeah. E commerce. You mean e commerce. Yes. Yes. So we'll we'll we'll see we'll see that. Let's go back to the number. Is that is that okay as an answer? Yeah. Yes. Perfect. Okay. So going back to those numbers, you could see, yes, we we we have, we had a huge increase in the cheapest in the base, of the pyramid, of the price pyramid, and we had a marked decrease. In the in the most expensive wines. But then I had to comment that last year, everyone was was quite afraid. We we were uncertain. We didn't know what was going to happen. So everyone stopped on track. And they said, well, let's wait a little bit. And then they started again buying and they were buying the cheapest wines because everything was getting very expensive and we didn't know what was going to happen. But then people realized that, one, the the average consumer, the the the guy who actually drinks expensive wine was not traveling because those people travel quite often either for work or for leisure for their vacation, and they go to New York and they buy wine, they go to London and they buy wine, they go to Italy, and they visit producers, and they go to to the wine shops in Italy, and they buy wine, and they bring in bring in their very expensive bottles when they're traveling. And they might not buy those wines in Brazil. But since they were not traveling, many people started buying expensive wines again in Brazil and many importers restarted importing their expensive wines just too late in the year or in the first months of, twenty twenty one. So we will see a change in that in the future. I don't know what's going to happen again now that the Brazilian are traveling. But we will see. Well, we will see. You wanted to say something, Chris? Yes. According, for example, the premium wine category, you were saying, oh, people were not traveling. They were not getting, the wines directly from their sources, from their wine shops, or from from the wineries. And and Brazil is a country where you are allowed to bring quite a reasonable amount of of alcohol with you as a travel. What this is something that's Sixteen liters. Twelve volts. Sixteen liters. Oh, no. No. I'm sorry. Twelve liters. Sixteen bottles. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Which is is on an exception in in many countries because you go to the US, you can take two bottles in as much more restricted And this fall for the for Brazil, how can that impact for the imports? For example, for the imports? How can the importers deal with that if you if you are for the premium category, how I imagine that, you know, the wines brought to the market were of a lower FOB price. For you as an importer, how difficult it is to deal with you know, premium wines in Brazil. Is a sector that can develop more? Because we saw a drop of minus nine percent. We do definitely need to make sure it will develop because, well, Those are the ones that we actually have something to tell about. They have stories behind them. They have a sense of place. They actually pay the produce as well. So that's a key category for the future. And we'll see well, we have been seeing prices key in Brazilian market. So when we have a producer that sells, wine for the same price that someone can buy the wine in the US, for instance, I'm buying for the Brazilian market at the same price an individual can buy on shelf in New York, for instance, and that happens, it's it's basically brewing into category in Brazil. So people can't travel all the all the time. They can't bring in that many bottles because well, yeah, sixteen bottles is a lot, but then again, there's a cap on on how much you can bring in as in price. You can only bring in, officially that's five hundred dollars. So sixteen bottles divided well, five hundred dollars divided in sixteen hundred, sixteen bottles isn't that much. So people come in with their precious bottles, but then when they have to get to give a gift, when they have to, I don't know, organize at dinner and they have to open many bottles, I don't know. They they're going to need to buy those bottles here. And we need to be able to offer the best service and the best price possible. Yeah. We're making all we can to do the best service, but there is only so much we can do when it comes to price, and we will see it right after. So Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine. Including Italian wine unplugged and much much more. Just visit our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now, back to the show. The next step in the obstacles is the geography. It's a huge country. It's as huge as you. And, well, it's as huge as many countries together. Many bigger countries combined. It's quite a huge place. And we have a large coast. It's about seven thousand kilometers of coast. So from from the northeastern, actually, the north down to southern Brazil, there's this coast with many ports And the wine that comes in comes mostly through sea, even if it's coming from Argentina, Hawaiian, most of it comes through sea. Some of it comes through land. And then we have to distribute everything throughout the country. Of course, the main cities are all based on the on the coast and the richest states. I'll show you. This is our GDP per state, colored, color, color, color keyed. And you can see some fall of the dock as one is the richest state Southeast and in southern Brazil, other rich riches, rich, richest regions in northeastern, and, everything that we have, inland, poorer and less, most importantly, less, densely populated. So most of the wine will be drunk in the coastline, specifically in the southeastern area, But then again, there's a lot of opportunity. And we have been managed managing to, better distribute, wealth and to increase the industries and services in other areas. There's a lot of opportunity and there's a lot of, work to do inland in Brazil. And we've been doing that as as importers and producers. Yeah. I'm sorry. Did have you have you noticed an increase of consumption in an specific area of Brazil during the pandemic or after COVID? Not necessarily during the pandemic, but that's something that has been happening for a few years now. So when we look at that that map, let's go back to the map for a for a minute. The traditional, thank you. To the traditional areas for wine importing consumption, San Pauloio may be which is the main producer, one producer, in Brazil. But the great opportunities, the new opportunities are for sure in the northeastern area, and in some cities in the Northern area, and some cities in inland in the in the center of the country. Yes. We've been seeing a lot of interest growth, and we've been doing a lot of work in in, better communicating wine in those regions and trying to raise the bar there with the price levels and the quality levels. And it it has been working. There's a lot of of space to work in those areas just because very few people did a job in those areas. So, yes. Not not due to the pandemic or the the COVID, crisis. But as a natural, development, the country has been more open to wine. K? Good. So, yeah. Next, obstacle is the bureaucracy. And here, it well, this is a key issue for producers. It's quite complicated. It changes all the time. And obviously, the government is not trying to make easier for us to work with imports. Or for exporters to send their products in Brazil. So our certificate of origin and their analysis documents has specific fault marks. You need to do things like the government want you to do and not everyone is ready to do this. So you need to have a clear idea and understand how you have to to do this. And, when you send your wines to to to the labs, make analysis, and you you want to send them to Brazil, you have to send them to labs that all they are actually authorized by the Brazilian government. There's quite a lot of restrictions there. They require digital and print versions. You have to have all the print documents at hand in order to nationalize the wines, there are way too many steps, and it nothing is very clear. Every year we have changes in the regulations, for instance, last year, they required everything to be tied with the lot numbers. So when you send a pro form a to Brazil to confirm your interest in, sending the wise, that performer has to have the lot numbers, of the actual wines that you're going to send, and that's not obvious because many times the wines are not even bottled yet. So everything has to be very well orchestrated So in order for you to get your product into Brazil, Organicics have a a specific law where we can't do anything we want. The Brazilian government wants the the certification they have produced with their own certificating bodies, etcetera. I'm going to speed this up because I think we're going to run out of time, and labeling is very specific. So you need to have a partner in Brazil. You can't just do things and then sell them to whomever is buying because oftentimes the wines are going to be blocked. At port because you don't have things, properly made. The tax well, I I don't I'm not even going to go deep into this, but you can see from the numbers, there's quite a lot of the taxes. They're applied over each other. And over costing freight. And in some states, because each state has their own, taxes. In some states, the the VAT or VAT version, the ICMS can go up to seventy seven percent on top of everything. So one can be very, very expensive and you can understand why not so many people are going to drink wine. But then the good news was the true potential we have. Because not not that many people is relative to the whole population, but there's quite a lot of people who drink wine. White intelligence considers thirty nine million regular wine drinkers in the Brazilian market. I wouldn't say that's regular. Because they consider it to be whoever drinks one bottle per month of wine as a regular drinker, but okay statistically those are regular drinkers. And that number has been increasing a lot. So in two thousand ten, they were twenty we were twenty two million people, but it's a huge, which is a very steep increase in regular wine drinkers. From those, and I don't have the the latest numbers because I I don't know if they did this research last year. But in twenty sixteen, when we had thirty two million, just about thirty two million people who were regular wine drinkers, twenty three of those drank imported wine. So it's not only about the v non veggies, vinny for a great wine that we make here. And and while on top of that, twelve million people are weekly consumers of imported wine, oh, we're in two thousand sixteen. So that's that's quite a lot of people who actually have the money, who actually have the interest, and I'm going to show you, they're highly involved according to one intelligence again, last year, about half of those were in averagely involved wine. And that means they do understand what they're drinking. They're trying to find new things. They try to understand the label. They're not just opening a bottle and drinking. They're trying to better understand the product and they're going after new products. And as you can see from WST numbers, in ten ten years, we had more than a thousand exams applied in Brazil. There are two APPs. Wow. And in two thousand eighteen only, there were, twelve hundred, exams applied in Missouri. It's more than four thousand. The I have information from the two two APPs, different APPs. So from one, four thousand unique students in ten years, And that means people who are actually investing heavy money in better understanding wine. Very few of those people who are actually professionals. Most of those guys are wine lovers and maybe they'll turn into professions, oftentimes they do become professionals. We have four of the ambassadors with Luis who is based in, in France. And we have five Brazilians who are actually ambassadors for Italian wine. And that's, I think, very good news. And for Italians, in particular, Ciamo Baez in Italian. We're about five hundred thousand Italians. Well, I mean Italian citizens who are registered, living in Brazil, but just under thirty million people from Italian, direct Italian descent who actually make sure you know, they go telling, well, I am from Italian descent. I'm going to drink wine from the region from where my grandpa, my grandfather, or my great grandfather came from. And they are actually looking to they're trying to get in touch with their roots. And we are in fact an emerging market, but with strong roots in, in European culture, we have the second largest, call Italian colony in the world, the largest gem colony in the world. Of course, the largest Portuguese colony in the world. One of the largest Spanish colonies outside of, Spanish speaking country. So we're very we've quite tied with Europe, and we are very interested in wine, and those are very good news. Just a quick look into the numbers from last year's last year. This is twenty twenty. Due to paid, so this is wind that actually went into Brazil. It's not sitting in the port. It was not declared as coming to Brazil. This this came through. And Chile and Argentina are always on top. Chile overcame Argentina some years ago and stayed there. It's about half of what we drink. Comes from Chile. Argentina and Portugal, the next ones. And I have to say, they're the next ones because they invest a lot in the market. There's a lot of events of Argentina from Argentina and Portugal. Portugal gained a lot of ground in the last few years organizing tastings and events and fares and all sorts of things to make sure they were going to be third and even second. They they surpassed Argentina just for a little bit in the last two years. Whereas Europe last year gained a lot of ground. Italy lost a little bit, but I have to say this is good because most of the volume that went down here is Lambrusco and very cheap, but it's gonna be a good quality one. And, there was, the value was sustained. So it's relatively good. France had been losing round. So this is very good from France. Last year was very good for France. You're you're going to ask, please? Yes. Do you are con concerning two Italian wines, specifically, for example, we see that you were mentioning that, you know, Lambrusco low, commercial, Nebraska where losing ground, and then Italy's minus three point five percent. Do you think Brazilians are still very traditional and their choice for Italian wine? Or some people are starting to change and look look looking for different regions, different graves, other things, because we know that Berniello de Montalcino barolo is just are still, amarone and the major type of wines people will will buy in Brazil. Do do you see consumers going to other things? When we talk about the very highest level of wine, of course, but a lot, super tuscans, everything, they those wines are, they dominate. But, well, if any of you are able to get your hands on the researchers from one intelligence. They talk a lot about how people are adventures, how they're willing to try new things. So statistically statistically, we are very tied to the traditional names and even to the, maybe to the lowest prices, of course. But people are willing to try and discover. All we need to do is connect those people and and make sure they're going to be able to try those wines in a proper way also. It's not just about sending the wine. We have to prepare the terrain. We have to talk. We have to present it. You you all know that because you've been doing that I mean, you producers who are watching us, you've been doing that in other countries. And when you did it in Brazil, if you're Italian in the past, there was a lot of investment for Italy in Brazil. When you did it, the numbers went up. When you stop doing it because Italy and France Francis even was, but but you stop doing it and who went up who were to who was actually doing and kept doing and is doing right now today. Yesterday, today, tomorrow this week is porting a week in Brazil. There's a lot of events. Online, most of them because we are still, quite uncertain about, safety, health safety, but they're doing a lot and they're going up and up and up with the numbers. And not only with the low prices. They're going up with premium ones as well. So there's a lot of space. Okay. I'll go back because there's just a few, slides left, and, we don't have much time. I don't know if you have if if we have questions, please. Did you check? No. Not for the moment. Okay. Alright. So how do Brazil and Jink wine? We have a weather and a gastronomy actually are very they require they all they almost demand white and rose wines, but we drink reds. We have we have this culture of the red wine and we drink reds, but I have to say these numbers very recently updated. So from last year, they are very good in that way. We used to be importing eighty five to eighty eight percent of bread wines. So there was a an important increase. The last time I did this session in one to one, this was eighty two percent. So there was a marked increase in in Rosay and white. It was from seven percent from three percent last time and seventeen from five fifteen percent last time. So, we've been discovering white wine in Rosay wine, and that's also due to the increased quality of those wines throughout the world, but our food demands white wine, our weather demands white wine most of the time. And, and yet people drink red wine. You have to sell red wine, but you have to communicate white in Rosay. So you can contribute to that, increased growth, of wines that actually work better in our weather and and with our food. And, you can see how people, buy their wines here. Most people buy the wines in supermarket. So this this doesn't add up. So they asked where do you buy wine often or where did you buy wine in the last six months? People could answer a whole, range of, options. So supermarkets, eighty five percent, wife specialist, thirty percent, and this is a very important number. Thirty percent online is quite a huge amount when we compare to other countries. If I'm not wrong, Brazil is the second, country in, online penetration for wine just after China. Or the third maybe with the US, I can't recall clearly. But you you you can try and look up. We well, the people who actually buy wine are people who offer and they have money. I use the the the technology, the money, the the computers. So they we we are quite connected. We buy online, and there's a whole other range of ways to buy your wine. But this does not coincide with how people how how the one gets in Ported in Brazil. So this is from Idaal, and you can see almost half of the imports are from wine specialists, important, importers who will afterwards resell the wine to supermarkets, to restaurants, to everyone, even directly. And, about the third are the supermarkets and they are very stable. They tend to put a lot of pressure on price, of course, but they are quite stable. The this, division, this, pie changes quite a bit according to what's going on with the economy. So when the rail evaluates supermarkets tend to buy a little less, importers tend to keep buying, and the dot com, of course, is a relatively recent tied of importer. They've been around for ten years or so. And they have, together with Vigna Conchectoro. You can see the power that the powerhouse that Chile is, and they have about, a fifth of the imports, the, volumes. Bernardo, I have a question for you, but it's exactly in this in this, subject of, you know, the the distribution of wine and the bias. The question is from andre rebating you. So there's a good friend. Yeah. Thanks for the presentation. Very good information. Brazil is one of the early adopter of wine e commerce. Could you elaborate on how the situation is at and is at the moment between killer, Chris, and the the the e commerce, how is the e commerce now and, you know, between these different levels of distribution? With your con I I don't know if it was yours or mine connection. But I I missed the first part of the question. Can you repeat that, please? Yeah. The the question is could you elaborate on how the situation is at the moment between retailers, importers, and marketplaces concerning to wine e commerce. I'm not sure how to answer that, Andre. I'm just trying to figure out what what was the Yeah. The key question. Yeah. Saying that the Brazil is in a early and the early stages of the distribution online. And, actually, in fact, Brazil had a big increase in the basis of a new e commerce consumers. You know, it's it's quite convenient to receive your your box of wine at home. And I think people were more interested and less intimidated. I think Brazil's a lot of people feel still intimidated. People were feeling comfortable at home of receiving their bottles, and is spending the budget they have because we have we can I think it's something that, you know, most of the the the market in Brazil, is dormant? And these people, maybe, they are not able to spend eighty reais, but they can spend thirty, but they don't want to go to the shop and say that they only can spend thirty eight euros thirty reais. So e commerce is really changing the the habits, you know, as, do you think this will will grow. We'll develop it. I will sure it will. Well, you can see here. Well, we don't have proper statistics on how the wine is sold. On the market, you can only guess or adapt and infer from the this kind of, researches, queries by in wine intelligence. So you can see, thirty percent of people do buy online. And this has been increasing. And I'm sure it's going to increase. First and foremost, because Luis is right. People are, intimidated. So it's easy to buy online and you don't have to face no one You don't have to face the familiar or the wine cellar with the questions and with the how do you like your wine? People don't know how they like the wine. They're wines. So they they will go online. They find the price and they will buy it whenever they want. So it has been growing. Marketplaces, so I I can see the the questions and the complement to the questions now. Market places are growing a lot. And, well, I've been involved in setting up marketplaces in the last six months. And I think next year, there will be maybe too many marketplaces. We'll see way way too many people selling wine for your marketplaces. And then, of course, there will be some sort of, rearrangement and we'll see who, who will stick. But, yes, everything is working and I think it's going to be it's it will grow even more. If you think that this year, one dot com dot br reached first first, place amongst importers in Brazil. So they're they sell almost exclusively online. They've been investing in in, physical, wine shops, but they sell almost exclusively online, and they reached number one. They are now number one importing Brazil. Wow. Yeah. It's going to be massive. It's going to be It's very promising. It it will just increase and increase. But it's this Brazil is a country where transportation and logistics are very complicated. So maybe the online shopping, habits move. They should they should help. It's just easy. And so I'm I'm gonna go I'm gonna speed through this. You can see later I'll I'll, make this available to everyone. So how they how do we select our wine, but and go directly to the takeaways so we can close the session because it's time. So we have stronger economic disparity. There is nevertheless a huge potential of tens of millions of consumers. There is already a large base of consumers. Those tens of millions already drink wine. We only need them to get better involved and drink more or better wine. There are huge proxy and taxes. You have to have a good middleman. You have to have a good partner, and that means someone who will guide you through the market. It's quite complex and it changes all the time and it's a mess. So you have to have someone you trust so you can work with. And there's, of course, the strong cultural ties, but we have to work together to develop the wine culture. How can you fare better than the competition? So first and foremost, pay attention to the documentation and legal requirements. Get some help by the local importer by someone you pay in Brazil, I don't know, but figure it out and avoid the very high costs of not having your product going straight into the market or from the the label and image that's very directly related to how people buy wine in Brazil. Very traditional labels are getting more and more behind the up and coming, yes. Thank thank you, Bernardo. You labeled? Yeah? Yeah. We I think we are out of time. And, I would like to thank you and thank you, you know, our our staff and say that was a great presentation. You give a very nice overview of Brazil of the potential in the market and is a very is a promising, market for sure. And I'd like to thank you again and take our all our audience for for being your very wonderful presentation. Thank you very much. Thanks, man. Thanks, everyone. I'll make sure this is available for you. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. 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