Ep. 1078 Gen MZ & The South Korean Market | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm Central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. For these are, first of all, my Curians, my fellow Koreans. I did a clubhouse with them. About the Korea wine market. And it is one of the most listened podcasts on the Italian wine podcast. So you guys should check that out. So and as you know, Korea market last year grew incredibly. I I don't know what's going on if they become off alcoholics or but there was an, substantial growth in Korea. They did another session before, and it was called the five wine market trends of South Korea in Salangteza San Paulo. So you might want to check that out as well if you are interested in the Korea market. Today, they will be talking about the, generation millennials and Zedge regards to the South Korea white market. I think it will be very interesting. Kong Young is our Italian wine Ambassador. You did the first edition. Right? So you should come back. You need to do some, you know, yeah, you should come back because the course has completely changed. And, he is an importer. He imports swine, Italian wines. He's highly specialized in Italian wine in Korea. And summer is, summer Lee, I met her actually through Tongmeng in clubhouse, and she is what you call, I guess, you can say, influencer. I know it's not it's not very popular thing to say nowadays, but I think she has a very concise and efficient insight to the the social media in Korea. I I thought it was an incredible privilege to bring her here so that she can share the wealth of information with us. So take it away. And if you guys have any questions, then they will take your questions afterwards. Okay. Well, today, we are talking about Korean market, with summer and me because as I, Steve, talk, I'm an importer. Yeah. I import only Italian wines, from six wineries from sixteen regions. So still, for reasons, yeah, I'm recovering. And, yeah, this is, it's not one of the the first generation of the Korean wine market, my company, because Korean market is very new. Just twenty years ago, we started, and then, yeah, it's really developing. Hi. Nice to meet you all. My name is Summer Lee. And, obviously, it's that's something that's my Korean name, but you can all just call me by summer. And I'm currently working for an English daily base in Korea called Korea, Umang dailey, and we're under the umbrella of Junong Media Group, which is one of the largest media company in Korea. And for the English daily, I cover mostly news coming out of food and travel sector. So that actually got me experience a lot of happenings in the food industry, especially the wine. So So South Korea is far from here. It's in the Fry Asia. Yeah, yesterday, we we took the flight for the twenty hours. Yes. We had a we had to on transit, but it wasn't that bad. Yeah. It's, as far. And also for the over overseas shipment, it takes six weeks. It used to be four or five weeks, but, after COVID situation, yeah, the the shipment is always has some problem. So minimum six weeks and then text, eight weeks. Yeah. It's, it takes long, longer than before. So it's far. And also, I have to say one more thing because, custom clearing is, it takes also one more month. So, if you're a producer, if you send the one into the South Korea, that means, we can set it in South Korea after at least, three months later. Okay. And this is, economic overview of our country, South Korea. So It's a small country. So the the country, the size of countries, it's like, just one sort by the Italy. So your country is, a three times bigger, but the population is similar. So fifty one million people lives in South Korea. And, important thing is the economy because, the economy in South Korea is still green up, yeah, and the GDP is one point six d six three trillion US dollar is, almost same as Canada. So it's quite big country in this kind of views. And also, the GDP per chapter is, so one thousand four hundred eighty eight is almost similar as same as Italy. Yep. And the the mainframe of the industry is like, manufacturing and trading. So we are the eighth largest exporter and importer in the world. It's it's not so small. Maybe one thing I could add is about more than twenty percent of the entire population of Korea. South Korea lives in Seoul. So, basically, what you hear about what's happening in Korea is basically what's happening in Seoul. That I just wanted to point out, because Italy, there are so many different cities and with the characteristics. So what you experienced in Northern Italy is very different from in the southern Italy, but basically, all the news here here about Korea, you can it's not too exaggerating to say that it's all happening in Seoul. For now, busan and some other cities are growing, but still. It's real. Yeah. It's just one million people there. So we're gonna give you a brief, introduction of how the beverage market makes up in Korea. Well, there's a joke that I guess people in Irish drink a lot, and I guess in Asia is the Korean people. Really, many alcoholics. So, like, you can you can see in the slide the amount of alcohol people drink per year is quite enormous. Uh-huh. But I guess not not everybody drinks, but the population that drinks all all consumes a lot in general. Yes. That's correct. And, basically, what you see is the total sales, statistics we've got from last year. And the volume, when you when you take a look at it, we talk that, imports, and the sales of the wine has increased a lot. But as you can see, it's still very minimal compared to other options available in Korea, especially beer and soju. Soju is Korea's we could call it somewhat traditional Korean drinks, but not necessarily because it's very cheap. A bottle is about, like, one euro. One euro? One euro. Yes. The check price. Mhmm. And that's it. Three euros in restaurant. Mhmm. It's like a, like, a soul drink for Koreans. It's that this build drinks. So it's almost tastes like nothing, just the pure alcohol, but the alcohol concentration is not that high, like, sixteen percent. So it's almost like wine. You know what? Yeah. So sixteen, seventy percent alcohol, and test lights on a sweet, both car. Yeah. Yeah. And then the reason why it's so high, the beer and the soldier takes so high percentage in the market is what they do is they usually mix the two. Yeah. So they drink beer, but the alcohol concentration is low. So they tend to mix soju a little bit. Yeah. And then the soju drinkers, they use beer as a chaser. So those two make up for a good harmony, so they take take up a big percentage in the market. And you can go a little bit about the wine segment. Actually, yeah, you actually, the beer and sushi, they do meet at the market. So only one point seven percent at the by the volume is, their the proportion, but by revenue, it means by value. The price is seven point four percent. It's still going on. And there is many possibility because, not many wine culture in South Korea because the volume is so small, yeah, compared with the size of country. And the beer and soju, I I like that. And also, I like the sumac, which is the mix Yeah. Very much. Yeah. Because, you you just spent six to you and then you can you can drown. Yeah. In the restaurant. But but, yeah, the taste is every everywhere is the same. Yeah. And then simple. And then people love that. Because peep Korean people like the sim simple things, simple ways, but the young people, they are talking to the wine. And then that's why we are talking about today. We're gonna probably talk a little bit more about this later on, but the reason why it was difficult for the wine market to grow in Korea was because the other alcoholic beverage options, they were just too cheap. So wine have no place to compete with them. So one of the things that are newly tried in Korea is to introduce more budget cheaper wines, but we'll get to that later. Yeah. Yep. This is a webview of wine market, and, number one from the Chile, truly trillion wine is not number one because this is really a party group because maybe not country in the world. The trillion wine is the number one in the market, but it's the same story because trillion wine is simple. And they're only few brown, and they're only few great variety, like, carbonate or low and chardonnay. And then, also, they do they did marketing very well in the in twenty years ago because they just Yeah. Put their brand in in front. There nothing. Yep. Just, some brand name and then people like their brand and then they says, yeah. So many wise, So Italy is placed on the force. So, they, yeah, Italy, Italian wine has a fourteen percent of market share. It's almost the same as a by value as well. So by value, the French one is number one. That's like the other countries. And the the actually, this is interesting because American wine is now getting more getting popular And then they they do very well because they sell more than each other online and then, the the quality is quite high or suppressed ranges. Some Arbor is a super hard, like, screaming eagle. It's like a two two thousand dollars per block or something like that. And then they they can make some premium wine, especially from not probably Yep. So American wines do very well. Also, it's the same, stretchy, like, you should know. Simple. Yeah. Easy to know. Okay. So let's talk about the tie because the red one is, more than more than help is, is sold as our red wine because, people has some images, or the kind of perception. Red wine is a real wine, something like that. When wine was first introduced in Korea, I guess the cloud classic image featured in movies or like dramas. It was always the red wine in the class. So people automatically just think about when they are talking about wine, it has to be red wine. So there are other options like sparkling wines and white wines, but it's growing these days. I think that now people have developed their own taste to confidently say that I like white wine, but even until, like, five, six years ago, whenever I say that, oh, I I wanna drink white wine over red wine. People would just stare at me. Why would you do that? Yeah. That happens. That has no card. Something like that. And then there But the one thing I wanted to point out is that the growing market for the orange wine in Korea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely now trend because, because of the natural wine, Also, I I'm the first important, which, you know, who introduced the Wednesday for the first time in Korean market, because I work with the Graftner. Yeah. We started about eight, nine years old. So it was brand new, but now it's getting popular and getting common. And people some people, yeah, they definitely prefer the orange wine, only orange wine. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's new, but has a the particular style. So, yeah, it it it is not counted there, but, it should we should consider about the category. Okay. Orange one is you can or the other producer, yeah, they should consider about the orange wine. Maybe something about the taste of it, the film of it? Yeah. The taste is is actually the the way of making is very simple. It's, making red wine like to make a reservation but with the white grape. It's very single. But I've seen a lot of non wine drinkers who would confidently say that they don't drink wine, but they said that, oh, I tried the orange wine, and that was good. And then Like you said, their only choice is to drink orange wine. It looks more fancy or some smart trendy. And I guess it also touches upon the subject we're gonna talk about later on, like, how it's unique because no one nobody in Korea had heard about the orange wine until, like, two, three years ago or wisely, even though you started importing, like, eight, nine years ago. So for the youngsters, it's like something different. Something their parents' generation down now. So they use it as a tool to market themselves as a trendsetter among friends. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So we should consider about everything, how about something new. Yeah. So generation MD is, like, Korean Korean Tom, Korean marketing Tom. So in Korea, every company, not only for the wine company. So, like, the, like, Samsung or Hyundai, they kinda big company also. They are really, yeah, say, this word generation MG because it's a combined it this world combined with, millennials and generation team. So it's like, to integrate through all the, the generations. So it's quite wide. But the the the special thing is is new consumer groups. Yeah. Especially during the COVID nineteen, we can do the on-tech marketing to them. So so the order generation is is it almost impossible. They they they don't change. And then but they they accept the new way of the marketing, and then they want something like the social media and then the other yeah. So, basically, these are the ones that never experienced the in person marketing. And the Korean company is actually focused more on them because They respond fast to the new marketing strategies they try online. And then if it works for the youngsters, like, in early twenties, that means that they can slowly adapt it to bring those in thirties and forties. So that's why the current companies are really focusing on how these generation, especially in the early twenties. Yeah. And maybe everyone in in their twenties, not, like, especially in thirties, but so that's why they target them Yeah. And the in the in the bubble that we have some of the Korean words listed there, and most of the keywords these younger generation focused on is experience being a creator. Being an influencer, and making themselves somewhat important in their life. And they also go into what values they can get from having certain experiences So when they are convinced that they can find some value that they can be convinced to, they they wouldn't stop. They they would be more eager to spend more, whether that's time or money. And then they don't really look back. You know, like, when you're in your thirties and forties, there are a lot of things to think about, like saving for the future. Yeah. But in their twenties, they're still exploring things. So they're they're not they're more courageous in a way. They're not scared. So they as long as you're convinced with the values that speak to them, that they're gonna move. And then that's what companies like because they can get the instant results. Yeah. Yeah. And this is important because they have money. Yeah. Really. Yeah. Surprisingly a lot of people in their twenties, maybe because of the investment of, like, the stocks and more in that financial market. Yeah. It seems like a lot of twenties, we we say that Mhmm. Not not just the budget things, but premium things work for them. They don't save the money at the bank at all. Yeah. Me too. Just Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. So does gen generation named Jerry as a Korean market growth? Yes. Definitely. Yes. And there is so many the numbers and datas, but the this number is a really, yeah, amazing because last year, just in two thousand twenty. This is, it's it's import value. The three three hundred and thirty million US dollar, it it it was the it's kinda it's, excellent price. Yeah. Because this number from the Korean customer service, one of the most accurate number. So last year, the wine market increased, twenty nine percent, compared with the two thousand nineteen. So in one year to twenty nine percent was a lot. A lot. Yeah. Because never happened before, okay, almost three per thirty percent. But this year is, you know, from January to August is more than last year because it's just eight years. During eight years, it's, three hundred and seventy million dollars. So ninety six point five percent increases. Yeah. Almost one hundred percent. So we're gonna hit another record for this year. Yeah. It's it's really Yeah. Also, like, my company, we really, we did at the at July. We we did. We we make made the revenue last year, a revenue in July. We are as well. So many many other importers, same same situation. So it's, amazing young. People drink a lot of wine. I guess it works on a two track, like, the half the population, half of the wine drinking population, they go for the premium wine. And then since they can't travel overseas, they tend to buy more premium wine within the country. Uh-huh. So that makes up for the big one. Yep. And the other way, it's like the large volume of more budget wine that's under like ten euros. Yeah. Under the ten euros because, in convenience stores, yeah, usually it's very small stores, but in every corner, every street, this is a wine, very cheap wine, but, you know, this is not so high quality wine, but, you know, people don't usually, they don't go to the Superstore because usually, they live alone and then they need just some more pushing on. So they go to the convenience store, usually, and then just take those on bottle of wine. Yep. That's, that's getting common. And then I recently talked to a couple of the college students, and then what they told me was They go for wine because it's cheaper now. Because usually people say that they would choose beer over wine because beer is cheaper, but now the convenience store has so many different selections. Yeah. And they have to say that they have the luxury of enough choices to choose from. Yep. So what they go for that is that. And then what they're saying is it's actually convenient. Yeah. And they say that it's tasty. I was actually really surprised. And then they said that they could have different styles. Now that the convenience part without of going all the way to the large retailers because it gets complicated and then it gets too busy, but, yeah, on their way back home from the school, they just pick it up and then just bring it home and the drink it was fun. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Because, beer and soldier is not, like, test lab like that. Yeah. And they will another thing they pointed it out is that they it also touches upon the same idea that the people in Korea, they wanna be differentiated. They wanna stand out from their crowd. So drinking wine is something that their colleagues or theirs, not colleagues. Their their fellow students don't do at schools. So drinking wine makes them actually a little bit more special than others. And then they can be the one the others come to to talk about wine, to ask about wine, and then maybe a tool that makes them popular. Yeah. Yeah. So, this two kind of things is is the hard market changes during the COVID nineteen. So bring bring at home is like, in everywhere in the world. But the Korean people, they choose the wine, not the cocktail, not the whiskey because of the summer tours. Yeah. This looks more special and then very similar. Has a similar alcohol has also due sixteen percent, five, fifteen, sixteen percent. Also, and also, I think drinking, drink at home means drink and SNS. Because in COVID nineteen, we we we should stay at home and then nothing to do. Not not many things to do. And, SNS and take the picture and post it on. That's really normal for the generation MG. And then so that's why they spent more money for the wine because, before the COVID nineteen, they spent just the five, six year from the convenience store. But, for the the take the picture, they need, yeah, upper level lines, very simple reason. And then for them, it's all about presentation. Like, no matter how cheap wine they buy, as long as they put it in the pretty plates and they put it in a in a nice table setting. That makes them feel like they're having somewhat fancier lifestyle. Yeah. So it's also the the important thing is, the good looking bottle shape or the, that design nineteen, the labels. I mean, the fashionable labels. Because, the class label has a lot of letters and then some names, but they don't want to read that. Yeah. They just want to be more fashionable. Yep. Pretty labels definitely speak to them. Yeah. So that kind of things read the the the market for the lower price range. But the other things, the in high trust wise, some of the work is, we, we usually buy from the off road, the other countries, and then But now they they they buy the wine in Korean market and then they find some place to bring this wine because, okay. You you you you bought like, three hundred euro wine per bottle. And then you don't want to open this one at home. So they are looking for the restaurant, but usually the, like, two or three Michelin stars, we couldn't bring the bottle. Yeah. But there is there are another the style of the, restaurant. Could you tell me about the kind of the thing? So, basically, what happened before is people had a somewhat prejudice that they have to pair their wine with somewhat western food. So they wanted to do that at the so called Michelin Star Restaurants. But before, like, ten years ago, it was possible to bring it to the French restaurants. But now Korea has, like, more selection of restaurants and these so called mission start restaurants, started hiring the same liaison, and keeping the pretty good wine list. It became impossible for the classic wine lovers to take their bottles to the restaurants because they wouldn't accept it. So they were looking for other options to drink their premium wine, the day scores from overseas. And then another option that brought up is the Korean restaurant and the Japanese restaurants in Seoul. So what's happening there was that these restaurants didn't really keep the higher end wine list, and they didn't really have assembly. So they didn't charge any corkage fee. So they were actually inviting these diners to bring their favorite wine to drink with their food. So that's what happened. So a lot of wine lovers, they don't really go to the French restaurants. They started or Italian restaurants, and then they started going more for the Asian restaurants. And the the thing is they actually got these these were actually the platforms that made the youngsters go because they can actually brag about their choices. They can show their characters because if if you were to choose certain wines from the white list, you can't really share your personality and then your style. But They actually bring they just don't bring one. So if they were to have a dinner with friends, like, four of them, they each bring a bottle. Yeah. And the deck that is one of the ways to show them. Like, the this is who I am, this is what I drink, and that this is what I can afford. This is what I'm doing. So they don't choose at the restaurant because, they just bring the insurance. That's the point, and then they don't want to make it difficult. Because in the French restaurant, there are really the wrong list. With the summer years. Yeah. That's that's not easy to them. So that's fine. And then funny thing is people in general in Korea, they are scared of ordering wine over Yeah. Like one fifty years at a restaurant. But surprisingly at these sushi restaurants or green restaurants, if they have some of the previous stages like champagne over like four hundred years, they will just order it. Yeah. Okay. So now, this kind of wines are most selling in South Korea. Not Italian wine at all, but, some the first one is bread and butter. Okay. The the the Name of wine is bread and butter, very rare. This this one is from not probably maybe near not probably. Anyway, it's from the California and taste is like bread and butter, really. But it's really super popular. So you can't find it in everywhere. And, I I don't know how much is sold because, but I I heard I have a friend in that company and, they they just ordered the many containers for only for that one. So that means it's it's really a lot. And then This is really the proof of what good branding is. Yeah. Because this the simple label and then very obvious naming bread and butter, and then they say that the wine actually tastes like bread and butter, So and then when the youngsters who don't really have much wine knowledge, when they they don't know what grape variety this is made out of, they don't care. They just drink it, and that they think that, oh, this is really taste like bread and butter. I like it, and they start talking to friends about it, and that it actually went viral. When I test this wine, I I I couldn't drink that. It's not not there. There was not Everybody has a different Oh, yeah. But, but, yeah, it was, sir, it's connected. Because the name and the taste is connected and then easy. And they remember anything. But I think it's somewhat promising that people can actually taste something other than grape and wine because those novice wine drinkers, they have attendants to think that wine should taste just like grapes. Yeah. But when you are more experienced, when you when you taste more wines, you can kind of pinpoint different flavors of fruit. Yep. Or the the texture of, like, leather or even sometimes tobacco. So I think it's promising. Maybe they can later on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Hence the little flavors that's hidden inside the wine. So I'm alright. You're right. Yeah. They they started with the bread and butter, and then Yes. We are looking for Yes. Just from Moving on to Barolo and Bernelo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also the Barolo and Bernelo, which is a very famous name. There's selling very well because, it's kind of the, aftermarket after the big burgundy, the high end burgundy market is, we we we cannot afford to the burgundy wine anymore because, It's just it's really expensive because I I couldn't I couldn't buy a long bottle to ground roof. It's, it's, like, five, five hundred euro in South Korea because because taxation is higher. So very expensive and it's too much. And then that kind of premium wine market goes to the problem. So now it's, it's it's okay. Yeah. It's really I think trend is slowly changing because the even the passionate wine drinkers, they're still following the big names. And then they follow what the big name wine reviewers, like James Suffolk or what the reviews coming from the Rupert Parker. They follow that. So some of the fast movers, they are done with burgundy in a way, but not not everybody's done with the bargaining, but some see the opportunity to move on because they don't think that it's worth it anymore for the money. So they're moving on to discovering more for the more value for the same budget. Sure. So that trend is slowly moving to Italian wines because still all the white lovers, they know about the Barolo and Bernelo, but not Everybody knows about it. No. So it's still kind of new, kind of different. Yep. But also kind of familiar because they've all heard about it in the book. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because Yep. And I think the wine maker is trying to make it more modern. Also, it speaks very well to the wine drinkers these days. Don't you think? The modern style of Barolla instead of because you don't have to. I don't think it's a it's not a terrible start. Yeah. Okay. I said, in Korea, in South Korea, we couldn't buy crude because it's sold out in whole countries. So that's That means, people want this kind of high level luxurious wine very much. Yeah. And also, they're not matter of the the only crew the other, the finest wines are really, really sold out. Also, I I I escaped to the the whisky company like a paranoid car, and then also the high end of whiskey, they couldn't they couldn't sell because they're out of stock. Yeah. So now it's really, really, they spent a lot of money to their drinks. It's really going two ways either you go super buzzing for the daily ones and the super premium for the special occasions. Actually, these ones from my my company. So last year, I I found some phenomenal because, these ones are it's not the barrel and Bruno is, it's it's it is still a good wine, but last year, it says increased or long. Okay. Someone talked about the James Stock plane just before, but James Appreciate is a a hillist in Hong Kong with the Korean wife. And he he knows about the Asian Parliament. And then we we we don't we don't store the wine at the wine cellar because we don't have any wine cellar. Even for me, I don't have wine cellar at home. Yeah. And we just buy an open drink. Yeah. We don't keep the wine in and at the start of and James Supreme knows about that. And then he gave the, like, a hundred point, two hundred points to the Brunalo fifteen. Because, in my opinion, this Brunalo sixteen is, has a better quality, but fifteen is you can't drink now. Yeah. And every time James are doing just write down. Yep. Drink now. Drink now. And then peep people find all that. One hundred points. Bring out. Yeah. It's it's what Korean people want. They don't keep the wine at the They'd like to live in the moment. Yeah. One of the phenomenon. And also the other things, the other wines are is something new because, the the first wine at the left It's a zero infinity from the Trentian area. It's a panel. It's a kind of the natural wine, but the the this liner is not the natural white maker. They are really technical winemaker. And but they just said they kind of, philosophy, like, you know, minimum intervention, panel. We can make that. We are not the natural winemaker, but we can make that and this has a very particular style. And, yeah, sold out immediately. I didn't expect because, they can make very pure white wine like a reasoning and pure true love, but they say this wine was just for fun just for the trying, but the Korean people love this wine. So we imported, like, twenty percent of the total production. Yeah. Yeah. In in Korea, Korean people consume that wine, And the other ones are has a very good bottle share. We have been working with the villas Parina, which is in the middle is, for the fifteen years. We have a very good relationship with the steady sales But last year, it says, like, more than four times because of the Instagram. Yeah. Just, some influencer posted on the Instagram because of the good looking Yeah. Maybe they she she didn't know about the this is made by professor and but she doesn't care. Yeah. It's, just a good looking, and then testing is okay. And then, so, yes, solved a lot. Same as the Katinara from Turvalini. Turvalini is a very historical family from the northerns came on then. The wine star is also very classic. So I thought, okay, this kind of plus wine is my son is not easy to sell in Korean market, but that that's right. Yeah. Young woman. They like that. So right there. It's actually that Nebula has a very light light flavors. So this is similar as a pinot noir, and, has a special bottle. So moments like that. And, it's very very well. So this is, what happened with, generational imaging in South Korea. Basically, yeah, what we just went over is that they like something that's instantly delicious. It has to speak to them right away. They're not that patient. They're new to this culture. So They don't wanna wait. They wanna experience something right away instantly. That's the key thing. And the second thing is it has to be something viral. So like we talked about the Zeri and Venetel, and that it was all over Instagram for for like a month on my feed and that it was kind of no joke. And then whenever I talk to people who actually had drink it, and that they were looking for more, but all the all the wines were sold out everywhere. So they have some difficulties finding them. Yeah. That's the testimonies I heard. And then another thing is the good branding in a way, the bottle shape is the key thing Like, everybody has that urge to be distinctive. They wanna stand out. And then with these bottles, that's look a little bit different from the classical wine bottles, they can actually do that. Yep. So finally, it's the last session. It's a this is a strategy for the generation MG. It's it's just my opinion, but, maybe. Yeah. Because, the the time wise, it's not simple. It's, it's difficult. Because of the the name or the history and also some regions, great variety. Yeah. Because, I I I had the class in the international academy, but I was shocked because, the the football was like that. And then there was, like, five hundred great variety. And, yeah, and the qatar, I could, like, talk about that. Yeah, I know that. I love Italian and also the alternative one is That's that's my job. But, for the young people, yeah. Yeah. If if you can make it simple or make it readable, yeah, that's, that's better. I I saw some, you know, a example because there there is, we know, not really much appreciated in touscany because the the name is too long. So I saw some producers. They just put the name Nubilee. Yeah. On the label. Yeah. That's what I do. Yeah. That kind of things. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's needed. Yeah. And also we are also we keep talking about the visuals. Yeah. How look like is, is getting more important because take the picture on, for the Instagram. It's, it's the most common way to the show the mind. Not by the introducing by the Sumeraire because Sumeraire is now disappearing. It's it's true because in South Korea, you know, it's really sad, but we couldn't find good somebody after COVID nineteen, it changes their job or moved to the importers, something like that. So it's changing. And yeah. And, high end position is really important because, Italian wine has has a premium image. Like, you you have good tea or a product and something like that. And then this is the country of very fashionable So, okay, like a prosecco. Okay. Prosecco is prosecco, but, if you can make them some higher quality with, some particular brand, It's easier to introduce in South Korean market because you have the very good image and then, yeah, you can use that. Yeah. And it's the same conclusion as, session in the morning with number targeting micro influencers is really important because there are so many influencers. And like there are, yeah, big infinite influencers, but they they they just covered the winning wine. They covered everything like a fashion food, but micro influencers, they do only Italian wine. Some some are really do. Do that. And then they they are professional, like, like a semi professional, but they can taste. So they can taste, and then they can judge the quality then introduce to, another followers, like, not many followers, but, if they have five thousand like a summer, yeah, these followers also can influence to another followers. So that's now really important. Guess, for me personally, for it to to really enter the Korean market, do think about the young generation because they're the trendsetter. And then one of the things you should consider is maybe you're doing something different for other countries, but maybe something like, more visually attractive for Korean consumers. I think that's the key point we wanted to talk about. Okay. Mary okay. You you one question? Yep. Do you wanna bring her Listen, I just wanna thank you guys. I think I love the style, first of all. It was a very it was like an intimate conversation. I don't know, jump here what you what you thought, but they were incredibly generous with information. It seems very simple. But I think they gave us a lot of lot of information that, we can actually utilize, especially for the Korean market. Really excellent presentation. I found just a lot of it was really thought provoking. The big kind of themes that I pulled away, you know, obviously highly photographable, but the importance of convenience and almost single serving. There seems like there's a huge opportunity there. Particularly if you think about the main distribution channel being convenience, and targeting these younger consumers that are only that are living alone. And I'm curious, what how do you guys think about alternative format? Particularly things like canned wine that are really having a, really growing in the US and the UK. Do you think there's a place for that in Korea? Yeah. I guess because you guys talked a lot about the packaging. The attractiveness of a bottle is can wind something that is, like, the pet not, e example. I'm sure there's something going on. No. Nothing. Maybe not. Maybe not. Because, even for the cork, people still prefer the natural cork because, that looks better. Yeah. The funny thing is, so like I said, the Koreans are very late in accepting the wine culture. So they're still very familiar with the classic image they've seen only in the movies. So the box wine is very new for the Korean consumers I feel like. And then the reason why they consider wine at this moment right now, baby things will change in a couple of years. But they drink wine because it looks fancy. It looks luxurious. So drinking wine out of out of a box or can't is not something they're actually going for. But one thing that works, the word that works is the camping population in Korea is growing enormously. Yeah. So whenever they do that, they go for the convenience over being fancy. So in that case, I've seen some people will, like, try and can wine. But other than that, I haven't really witnessed many people talking about it. So I think it's a little bit premature to talk about it, but you never know if somebody makes the boxwise super attractive. That maybe that'll that'll create a a new channel for for them. For for now, from my point of view, personally, some some other journalists might have different point of view, but for me, I think it might be a little bit too soon or a different track. I I Let me just, if I just might ask before I close, is that have you been to Korea? Yeah. Yeah. But when you when I first, you know, I'm Korean, of course, I I am Korean, but, you know, I grew up at stateside. So I don't even speak Korean. It's very embarrassing when I go there. But when you first go to Korea, there's something odd that you can't put your finger on. Right? And it's because all the cause are gray or white. Or black. Just shades of gray. It that is actually emblematic of the Korean society. They're incredibly traditionalists. So I think that's the kind of, you know, it's a it's a roundabout way of answering your question. But when they're saying, like, they're not quite ready, it's because although, you know, like the k pop, in a way, they're the trend setters on one one one side, but but the core, the hot core, they're very traditionalist. So I think that's why they're perhaps a little bit behind in the, adopting of new packaging in a way. Listen, you guys. It's been wonderful. Let's give it a give it up for summer Lee and Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you so much. It was great. I I loved it. So I highly recommend I think there were so many great insights. Alright. I have to now tell you guys to leave. Okay? Because I have to sanitize the room. Thank you very much. Thank you. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at white to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.