Ep. 1113 Consumer Trends In Romania | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Italian wine podcast. A wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner is proud to present a series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Hi to everybody. I'm Aliccellini. I represent, the fourth generation of, Italian winery, based in Emilia Romania. We produce a Lambrusco, and balsamic vinegar, and me to do classical. I've been invited here in order to introduce and moderate, this, piece section is about how fast our consumer and import trends in Romania is changing. And I'm introducing you Imra. That we No. Nice to. Okay. I'm gonna explain the detail of the presentation, sir. Okay. Oh, sh shortly on me. So I'm in Musaka. I'm a WSTT diploma holder, and, I run a local WSTT school in Romania. And I have a small import business, but it's not about wine. It's, some certain premium products to wineries. And, I'm a chief counselor for, wine importer who has the a wide array of, Italian wine selection. So that's the main reason for us for for me being here. Okay. So, good. So, how fast is changing? So that was the question. And, depends on, on the region and the quality of wines, of course, it's it's very, very usual, nothing oncoming on the remaining market. So, import is increasing steadily but slowly. So the importing Romania is, two Romania is all the time. It's roughly double, like, the export of the country into into other countries. With this pandemic, the the wines from classic European regions, so like, first of all, is Italy. All the time is number one France and, and Spain are, stable and safe. So if you want to import wise, probably stability is there. We have more and more educated consumers. So I told you, I I have to own, not not the only WST school, but the other two schools there. So, well, I'm we are the oldest. And, there are more more thousands of people who already know what it means, international wise, how to put them into the context, the policy which I think it's, you know, if it's very, very important here. Sparkling, and Rosay is booming in Romania as well. It's very, very important information, I guess. And, retail and online purchase. It's it's very very on the increase. So your online is roughly. You will see thirty, thirty five percent. For premium wise, it's even seventy percent. While the retail is, is booming to probably sixty percent, you say. Many, many many producers had really, really rare problems. Mainly, we consider premium producers in in Romania who were exclusively on the Horaka, and, they had a really big problem with this pandemic period. For certain products, the market is not mature yet. I'm going to tell you some some products, which are not not ready yet. So some of them are already on the market. So it it would this would be kind of what not to import to remain, not yet. Yeah. But I would have a slide on that one. And, of course, there is a wide gap between the urban and, rural area consumption. So, basically, there are three, three, four big cities in Romania who will absorb, will soak up all the all the wine production. I mean, we are talking about the import part of it. I promise it never interrupt him. But you can't. I'll be so Italian. I never interrupt him. But one of my first question before when we have a follow-up was, which kind of Italian wine potentially, can go in, in terms of steel or sparkling? And I think, in this slide, you already answer in a way. Yes. In a way, you say, so sparkling wine increased from Italy mainly is, in the last two years, is increased to about point five percent, roughly, while Italian steel wine has increased in the last five years last five years with seventy two percent. Yeah. So they are these are valid figures. So I'm not, you know, just it's not from my stomach. So I will say both of them. And and and and I I'm I'm really curious seeing what is going on to happen into twenty twenty one. By the end of the years because I'm going to show you some some, some figures already on the first part of the of the years, first half half years. Yes. So we skip this one. How big the country is, and we go directly into consumption versus production. It's a bit complicated, but what you have to see is that starting from two thousand and fourteen, yeah, that was the line where consumption was less than production. Yeah. So it's the it's the is is the is the, is the bottom line. Yeah. And it was two thousand and seventeen, basically, when it's changed. So we can we produce more than we consume. And Roman is there is only once in the last ten years when, had more than five point one, million hectoliters. So, basically, is tenth of Italy. Yeah. But we produce more, we consume more than we produce. Sorry. We produce more than we we consume, but still there is place for for import lines. Yeah. That is very, very interesting. Okay. So this is, important export. You see, that's why I'm telling you how to memorize. If you need to memorize, you don't have to, but, export is all the time. It's half of the import. So it's we are talking about thirty million euros and, I mean, seventy million euros. It's it's it's pretty, pretty, pretty low. Low. Absolutely. Seeing again, we're talking about all the time about the potential of of, of the wines and country, but Well, if you have been here and probably attended some of the presentations already, what it means coming coming from an Eastern European country and struggling your way through showing that it's your wines are worth the money, you know, then everybody has the cheap image about the the Eastern European wise. Yeah. And, I think, though, it's it's the it's the role of the the the country to to work on on this. It's not necessarily about producers, but I'm talking about the implication of the of the state of government to improve this, image on the, on the, on the, of the wine. No? Okay. So this is import by country, eighteen, and nineteen. As you could see, Republic of Modoa, which is, is just, in vicinity. It's very, very close to Romania. Yeah. We have been a neighboring country. Italy has increased again. You see there is, twenty two, twenty three percent, and the Republic of Motorola, twenty six percent. We are talking about twenty eighteen, ninety. France dropped that year. Spain is is is stable. Yeah. Which is when what you have a plus and the minus next year, each other, it means that it's stable. And Germany, increased in Hungary and others. Yeah? If you have questions, you can ask. It's for Vivian. Yeah. Hello? What what dropped dramatically? And, then that's a key issue. Again, talking about a percentage, eighteen, and nineteen. As you see that, Bulgaria is more than fifty percent. And, Australia and wine. So mainly new word wines are on on on I'm saying unfortunately because, I'm personally is a screwcap friend of of wine. So And, you know, probably that, most of the wines from Australia that that come into the country, I'll screw caps. This can be one explanation. The UK dropped, which I would say it's a very key market for for for for each country in, in Europe, yes, and the US market again. And dropped and France dropped as well. Yeah. So this is a a key message for for those people. Hey, Marie. When we introduced to each other, you, told me that you are, a person from education. Our younger people interest in, Romania to approach a wine, and there is this mentality, a part of, young, generations. Yes. So when we talk about youngsters, at the age, let's say, up to twenty two, twenty three, or just basically, if it was in the USA, they would just start drinking, but in Romania, at the legal age is eighteen. They are interested in drinking, mainly lower alcohol wise. This is what I observed. It's we have something that is called spritzer from the Austrian tradition. So so is it drinking fresh? Is it drinking wise with the soda? I mean, when I saw I say soda, it means mineral water, not the American soda. That is a trend of low alcohol is very important. Let's beer. Let's beer. What what I could see, but the cocktail business is is is in is in again. So Jean is back and things like that. So cocktail is very, very killer. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Okay. So this is what I I saw you. It's it's it's, the data that you go is you see imported Romania from nineteen twenty. Yes. So it was the first six months of two thousand and nineteen and twenty. And you see that twenty one is already I wouldn't say it's nearly the double, but it's it's increasing there. Yeah. Yeah. Import by the country. Again, one year later. So we are in nineteen two twenty. You see, again, Italy is first now in the Republic of mold over the second, pretty the same. So twenty four percent of the market from from import is is one quarter is Italy. Spain, Spain is back again. France is back again. Yeah. Germany stable, Hungary is is is dropped. Yeah. So there are the the largest minority in remain is at roughly one point three million people are are Hungarian. So this could be an explanation if you if you don't know anything about the the the country. That that's why you you find Hungarian one is there, so as well. Okay. So so what we have to be careful and and and to look and, be alert, is that I as I mentioned you, so Italy is on a constant increase. Yeah. So which for the last five years, it's more than seventy percent. So, I think it's Yeah. I I would say it's easy to sell Italian wise, but it's not, of course, because I will going to tell you about a bit about the the the sales channels. Yeah? Okay. So what what is increasing here? And, for Italy to Romania, as you see that even if there are not huge numbers, yeah, I would like to to look behind the numbers. And what I like seeing here is that the geographical indication and PDO wines are are somehow increasing. So it means we are moving up to the quality. Yeah. Could be a lot more money involved here than financial because we are talking about eight hundred and forty eight thousand euros, so which basically compared to the international context is is close to zero. However, what is important for me is the tendency of of of of of of drinking better wines. Yeah? And what dropped dramatically in the last year? So what increased is the sparkling wine again in Rosay, but what dropped dramatically from Italy is is wise in containers between two liter and two and ten liters. And, there is a classification which says simply two liters plus, which dropped forty five percent. And partially fermented must, which is usually zero point five or point point five decrease drop with sixty percent. So again, which is a trend again, which which says is there is a step or shift to quality. One. Yes. Which is I think it's great. What is not trendy yet, but should be there, and, what is on the market still ready to train things. But we have, but, Ramortized wines and seltzer, I I could see honestly two companies on the market from from Romania. We already started doing this canned wines. Alright. So domestic production. Domestic production. Yes. I I could see that. And only exclusively in retail or at the seaside, that's some some wine bars and that's been, seaside establishments. Little alcohols and zero one zero alcohol ones is not that friendly, unfortunately. Yeah. So there there is a kind of I know it's a niche market, and it's an international trend everywhere having these kind of things, but it's not present yet in Romania. And, what we we could see outside the pegged wines and thing here is is missing or, the canned wines again, screw cap is a big issue now because, I'm trying to convince, rewind producers to use screw cap, and they refuse because they say that the consumer reject it. However, I know there are there are six of seven wineries who are going to launch the those Rosay wines in, ma'am, screwcap, next next spring. When you say, Armatize wine, what do you mean in this list? So which one can No. Which means a canned wine which contains the wine and aromas. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Light bottles, you know, alternative packages, There's nothing. Nothing is changing on. Yeah. And and and this bio classification and, and vegan wise. Some wineries, of course, like recash winer, which is very famous in, on the international market and the UK market, they will put on the labor as if it's low, so fight is vegan. Or if they have bio certified. So roughly, there are eight eight wineries which are bio certified, but there are more and more vineyards already, which are bio certified, but not the wine yet. Okay. So there is I wouldn't say that there is a trend Don't misunderstand me, but there are more and more wineries, which will have have bio certified vineyards. What is currently on the increase I told you is the sparkling gear, when we leave the Shamak message prosecco, but traditional method as well. They're mainly champagne or, I wanna say cremelda but mainly champagne. Yeah. Not too bad. So Pet Mart, again, seven eight, wineries already producing this kind of stuff, Rosay, sprit says, and the high end wise. So they are very popular. You see, we just had the discussion before. We said, it's not really something in between. So either we have entry levels, you know, or we have the very, very high end to the more more I mean, bottles of more hundred euros and, mainly in the capital city, so Bucharest and, seasides, lounges, night clubs, they will absorb this kind of value premium level winds. I put the by the glass, it's a very, very sandy nowadays. So there are a lot of terraces there, and, it's very, very dynamic. So if you have never been to Cluj napoque hour, bucharest, well, to make sure I have my recommendation is to to visit it because everything is now is booming. Yeah. Not now because, you know, probably the situation with the pandemic and COVID, now we remain in the cerebral, but in the last three four years, more and more hundreds, hundreds are not thousands of bars, wine bars opened in the country. So I think it's it's the right place, being there if you have not been yet. Online, I put it there. So I asked to six, seven retailers how I mean, the online, how they say this is the the number, the official number, roughly, thirty, thirty five percent of the wines. But mainly, the entry and mid mid market level, so up to ten euros, let's say, nine euro wines. Yeah. And in case of very, very expensive wines, and premium, you know, or outstanding or top notch quality is seventy percent. Yeah? So it's a huge increase there. Okay. Just have a a quick look at, one company in Romania who has a lot of ones, they have eight eight hundred labels roughly. And the majority, they have a lot of vast portfolio of Italian wines, and I put on the left by volume and by value. So, you see the the producer. And, and you will realize what is what it sounds well. Yeah. Greg with the two forcesmen. Yeah. Gabi. Yes. Yerman is is very, very popular as well. But if you see by the value, you know, you will see some expensive wines there, some Supertoskom. So onelaya, Sakskaya, different wintages. So so they they they sell well. Yeah? Just and nobody will give you this information So that's why I struggled. I struggled hard to obtain these these things. I said it's it's not a secret. You don't have to give me. Just give me the order. You don't have to give me numbers here. Thanks. Another question, could be, there is a perception of a different territory, like north or south, from Italy, middle or Italy is, the perception of Italy is, altogether, one country, or there is the perception, I I would yeah. It's a historic question or or, I mean, as tradition. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. In terms of, wine selection, and I want, wine from North though, or I want a wine from South. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, historically historically still, I the is the southern part of the country, which the most famous region is Dalomare famous for for wine, for red wines. So history will historically is the most important, even nowadays, but people already know most educated people will, you know, if you are coming from the north, yeah, you will have more acidity, lighter style of wine. So this is what is going on now. Okay. And that's so there is a differentiation in this one. A more educated consumer will realize that one. Yeah. So what what is behind the label, and I think that is important. Yep. Okay. There is sorry. Go back here. There is a company who's a Because I'm sorry. If I interrupt you, it's, curious because at Tuscany, for example, in some region that, sold the wine and sold the Italy Around the word. And in this list, is almost missing. If not, yeah. Yes. Yes. It's not, yeah, it's a sea guy. So it's curious. You you can guess you if you know the brands, if you know the brands, you know, which is Yeah. Targeted towards the retail, the key accounts, or which is targeted toward the Voreca or his own whose debt is the entree. Very interesting. Yeah. Okay. So Rivino dot raum is a company responsible for wine tourism, you know, and, they made a very interesting, research or a market research. And, the you just see, at the beginning of twenty twenty, yeah, and, I wanted to share with you some, some consumer habits and to see how it's how it is going on in Romania. So seventy four percent were made sixty two, sixty six female. And I the income is very, very important. So you have to understand the financial background of the country. So, The the the the minimal wage is, is around two hundred and sixty euros. Yeah. So and the mean, the mean, the mean, or the average is, roughly six hundred or something. So if you know this one, you know, you might think who is going to spend that much money on the wine. Yeah. But it's increasing because if you if there are certain certain segments, for example, if you're working on IT, it could be I mean, the sky, the limit, you know, the salary. So Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So look at the income of the people who answered who asked who answered the questions. Yeah. So, twenty two percent. We have an income between three hundred and and the the six hundred euros. And the maximum is when people asked thirty six percent of the people will have an an income or monthly income of more than one one thousand two hundred euros. Which can be three thousand euro, five thousand euro. I don't know that one. Yeah. Most of them work in the private sector. Yeah. White color, it means for states. The other ones is self employed and other. So the majority is is the private sector. As you could see there. Frequency, how often this is a good question as as we are wine professionals. So daily basis is only sixty, seventy percent of daaS people. Most of the people, I mean, forty six percent is two, three times. That they will serve or drink consume wine. Yeah. After that, we have once a week and once a month. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay Vazzy Lambrusco, and other stories, and much, much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. Okay. How do you how do you decide on what to buy, what to purchase? And it says, international wineries, remaining wineries. So this is this has increased in the last three, four years. So people are turning turning to the Romanian brands and the Romanian grape varieties. Yeah. But we have I told you there is there is space for for, import as well. So international Romania wineries and or both the is which is more than forty three percent. So it means they will purchase international wines and Romanian wines as well. I have a question. The Romanian, domestic production is more sterile sparkling. It's still red wine. Still red wine. Still red wine. Yes. So this justify also the increasing for sparkling wine. Yes. There is space to take this. Yes. Of And this this give, gives a a good answer to to Italy as well. So why it is so popular? Having this if you if you look at the high end Tuscany wise, so Brunllo Brunllo de Montachino is more popular. And if you I've taken the most the higher segment. An international view, like, as everywhere, like prosaic or something like that is also just because, from from the high end wines, if I took to talk about Tuscany, So brunello is more more popular than a Chantee classic or a server, but, you know, everybody wants to drink brunello, if not super super tough. Okay. One packages, as you see here, is, is absolutely the bottle. Yeah. You see seventy five percent or even eighty percent is they preferred purchasing wine, which is, the the the the packages is bottle. Purchase from the source, where they purchased this. As you see online, it was so we are at the beginning of twenty twenty. So it was only four percent. Yes. And this year, by talking about thirty, thirty five percent. In one and a half years, something like that. Yeah. It's a huge increase there. Salado, which is usually seven, ten percent. Now it's it was closed. Yeah. It hasn't been closed in the last one and a half years. So you you could not really visit why there is. So you cannot buy from salad doors. Specialite shops and specialized shops through the online, which was increased now highly. And the supermarket, which was forty probably will be which then was forty probably now will be shipped to sixty percent roughly. In the future. Yeah. Redwine. This is the answer. So what to import? What color? Red White or or Rosay? You have the answer here. Yeah. Pretty relative. So a lot of red wines in them. But Rosay is increasing as well. So and sparkling. I put sparkling in there. It's not a color, but just to see where I would place that one. Dry. Which is good news already? Yeah. So majority is is is going on on dry ones. So we have I I was here with Ukraineian presentation. So from people asking that, what kind of what style of wines are in there, so we are drying out. And that's a good good good thing. Yeah. Is the case if it was with I want to make a comparison between Romania and, on the Republic of moldova. So they had the same export market during the communist time. Yeah. So it was Russia. They drink a bit sweeter. When the Russian put the embargo on the Republic of moldova, they were forced to dry. Somehow, and to import their wines to the west. Yeah. Romania was not forced, but still we are drinking more and more and more dry and dry ones. And, basically, what is on the shaft. Yeah. Driving force behind purchasing is own consumption with blue, yeah, gift. It's very, very niche. Yeah. Prob this will increase again with the online increase. So probably, I I'm speculating but probably more and more people will will order a wine, on online before Christmas, giving us a huge difference. Yeah. So for sure that this niche will will increase. Yeah? And both, yeah, and you see own consumption and and both is It's more than more than sixty percent. Yeah. Do you here, with these questions, multiple answers were were allowed. Yeah. So, that's why you have forty, forty, thirty percent. And so when the price is, you see, it's nearly forty percent. So when when when somebody decides to purchase a wine, so which has the the key criteria. Of course, many twenty people, if you link it to the income, you see what I mean? Normally, they will look at the price of the wine. Yeah. The color is pretty high. The brand is very, very important. So brand awareness is now now there. Yes. Variety, ABV, ten percent. Yeah. Vintage, Yeah. Country of origin is important. Label is not that much info on the label. Yeah. More than more conscious people. I mean, they want to look at that one. Meadows are important, but not that important. Recommendations, and and pretty pretty high the event. Also wear out our special events. It works. So for wineries, imagine there are roughly five hundred wineries, five hundred twenty five wineries. So it's not that many. If you see the contest of Tuscany, how many producers out there, or you look at Bordeaux, Romania is is large as as a Viticulture area, but Duran officially. Officially, there are five hundred twenty five wineries, which, of which, I would say, two hundred are not really, really important on the market. So it's a very, very small market producing a lot of wine. So that's why I'm telling you, Romania is is pretty pretty competitive in a way. Yeah? This could be an explanation. So do you think there is more a track for Italian wine from small wineries, or doesn't matter? They are attracted from, artisan concept, or they, changing dip dip depending on, again, if you took up the the sales channel. So if you take the large companies, you are going to place your wine into a retail, probably is alacopina Gridos. It's probably the group grape variety is more important. Yeah. Or now Primitivo is doing very, very well, or has been doing very well well. But some some some importers will will stick to small family run businesses that is this is a key issue. This is very, very important. Good point. And, if I see the list of the most famous and distributed wineries, that you list before, they penetrate to the market independently or they were supported from the government, from, local. So I'm a wine producer. Yeah. What I can do in order to approach and penetrate the Romanian market, considering that I'm a middle, winery, family. Yeah. Yeah. Just just three thousand two hundred, three thousand, bottles, a hundred bottles per year, let's say, in this case. Yeah. Yep. So, I would I'm with myself. I would I wouldn't never go around distributors. I would always always work with somebody, even if it's a smaller or large one. Because you you need one because dev dev bin, there are some companies there, dispute companies who have been around for twenty years already. So, all the wine business started. So So you you you have to work with them. However, there there has been an increase of small producer. I mean, small organizations. Small organizations, small distributors who are on the market who can cover some, let's say, some restaurants. If you are in a small town, you are in a small town. You can do that one because you know the people personally. You know, you go there. You talk about the wine. You influence them. Yes. Oh, storytelling. Sorry telling. Sorry telling. Yeah. But but you don't we'll have this white coverage, like, the the the big ones will help. There's a key thing here. I think how much are people willing to pay? Yeah. Price points. Yeah. And you see that nearly half let's say, forty three percent is between six and ten euro. And which is already considered premium segment or in Romania or, I think it went on the UK market. You're going to premium. It was already is eighteen percent and seventy percent is fifteen plus zero. But the limit is the sky, again, and I told you about for very, very expensive high high priced wines. Just to see a price segmentation in Romania, from recash winery, I told you it's very important for for the country. So they cover thirty thirty two percent of the of the market in Romania. There are three big players there. Even there are five hundred wineries, there are three big players who will cover sixty, seventy percent. But Rakesh is is is a very, very nice and smart company because they have a very, very good branding, and, it's a profitable business. That's really, really profitable, Rakesh. So this is entry level entry mid market. We're talking about euros. Just to see how it's going. You know, mid markets, upper mid market, entry premium, mid premium. Premium is already sixteen, twenty euros, or the super premium, which is is is more than Correct. One hundred runs, which is local, yeah, currency, but twenty plus. We don't really have luxuriously priced. Romanian wise, let's say, fifty euros plus. We have some exceptions, but but this is this is the segmentation just to understand the market. Okay? The target consumers, just to see another winery, which is called good boy. Yeah? So they have begging box and they they have their entry entry brand, which is the crafted for senior citizens medium income by the glass, jug wine in restaurants. Yeah. It happens there. Why the an upper mid let's say the mid position brand. Let's say the Libya is youngsters, higher income consumer, while they have a premium wise, it's already for mature marketing for the entree for the Horeca. And that's why they are selling roughly forty percent in Horeca. And sixty percent international tier comps, which is retailers in, in Romania. Yeah. Fifty five percent bagging box, five percent bulk, forty percent bottle. Yes. These are these are key examples for you just to Just to understand how what is going on there. Great variety, I wanted to mention that Fethaskanyagra, which is a local grape variety is number one, and Cabena Sabunyan is the second one. So roughly, if you want percentage is twenty twenty three, twenty four, both of them. Medle is roughly ten, eleven percent, Sabignon blanche hardenay, other international grape varieties, and other indigenous grape varieties, which is roughly ten percent. Each wine area will produce fethaskan younger. They, I mean, they try to produce fethasconagra, even if it's a cooler climate or a moderate climate or a warm climate or it's the wine is the fruit is jammy. And I do think it's an amazing grape variety because sometimes it behaves between and wine, and sometimes it's a kind of syrup. You know? Sometimes it's a kind of primitivo style. I mean, the jamminess depending on the on the on the region where it comes from, but it is popular. It is very popular. If I'm thinking back of twenty, twenty years ago, so When the first premium brands appeared on the market, they tried with Firtieth and Agra, which did not work that well. So they after they changed it, the person, Tigeon said, okay, let's say, seventy percent, Cabena, seventy percent, Firtieth and Agra. And in twenty years, now I I I do think that It's fine. Ferteska Nager is is is more more important than than a company, Sabignon, and Mander. The problem with Ferteska Nager is the only thing is that there are only roughly three thousand five hundred hectares stranded. Which is not that much, but probably will increase, but but it's not that much to cover. Mainly, to cover the people say, why don't you have an international great variety? I mean, why don't you have a great variety to step on the international market? And I say, well, if if all the Fataskan agra is is soaked up internationally. I mean, internally, you you you don't have other great variety to come up with because nobody wants to drink a Romania Malo. I'm sure of that. Yep. Okay. So takeaways about Romania. It's a dynamic and but painfully competitive market. We produce more wine than we consume, but don't forget there is all the time there is time for for for, a place for, import wines. Increase. Impports from Italy stable and increasing. That's very important. Big City's soak up the bulk of the wines. So, Bucharest, gluesnapple, Carta, retail and online increase during the pandemic. Yeah. So retail might shift into sixty percent. And, online can go there as well in the same same numbers probably. And the on trade was hit hard by the COVID nineteen pandemic. So so the Horaka is was was destroyed in Romania. You have to know that one. Four four hundred thousand people were involved in the business, four thousand two hundred four hundred thousand. And half of them were directly linked to the business, but I I'm not sure that there are more than one hundred now, one hundred thousand people left in the business. A business which dropped thirty nine percent, forty percent in the first part of two thousand and twenty one. We don't know what is going on now because probably a lockdown is coming, so the Horeca will be hit very, very hard. Okay. Indigenous great varieties like Fitesca and I are very popular. Consumers will get more and more educated. I still we hope so, and and it is so. Yeah. So and people are welcoming traditional, but open to the new. So that is very, very important. So it's an Eastern European country, Romania, which is the people are very, very welcoming. Yeah. So it's and it's safe to go there. And you you you feel well. Okay. So if you have questions now. I have the question about the wine consumption in, Romania. Do you have any number? Because, all numbers are different and there are legends that the consumption of the wine is very high. Do you have any number from the market Why is per capita consumption? I I heard something today here once, I think it was the Ukrainian presentation when say four liters or something like that or zero point four per cap. Yeah. It was very The Romania, I as far as I know, is the o o IV numbers. They did not publish last year, but before that one, it was twenty seven liters per person per capita. It's very similar to Hungary. Yeah. It's very similar and it's very high. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Twenty twenty seven. Probably you know that I don't know why. I checked the I checked the figures, the OIB. I did not I could not find this information because two years ago, it increased because it was around twenty twenty three, twenty seven per capita. Yeah. So it's it's pretty pretty high. So why one why consumption is increasing again? Absolutely. Absolutely. If you if you think I I'm not sure if it was the same in it in in Italy, but probably yes. I'm, I guess, in the nineties. So the key issue there that still there are some regions that we produce their own wines, I mean, the people at home, they will have domestic wines I find that. Which is not physicalized, you know, but any kind of events or special events, they will consume their own wines. And this this this is still around there. We were sharing that also the domestic production influence, the the domestic consumption, but also open the consumer to consumer wine because, we saw even around the world that this is the rules, you know, the country that produce wine, consume a more wine, in a way. Yeah. It's a part of our the culture. So they represent it probably in their own domestic product action and this reflects on the on the internal consumption? The a lot of whining is there. I mean, I mean, famous Italian. I have been around for many, many years. Gaia is there. But if you start now to penetrate the market, so that's what I'm telling you. So you you need you need immediate somebody in between a buffer than going directly to. Yeah. That is very, very important. I represent all the wine producer notes. I'd like to know what are the most popular, the main, Italian wine regions and grape varieties, popular in Romania. Great varieties. Okay. And wine merchants. Yep. I I've been thinking the answer for which I take the three classic European countries, Maine, Italian, France. Why is Italy so popular? There are many many things, but if I take only the label and grape is probably as Italy for us is simpler than France, because France seems to be very, very sophisticated with with the label and the origin control. Okay. Of course, the people are drinking Bruno de Montalcino and educated people, and we'll know that is is is a Sanjay behind. But in some in some cases, they don't know what they are drinking. But other solution, but the good thing is that you have wines like pinot grigio, which is a variety labeled, which is very, very important for mainly for the retail. So im imagine, Pinogrid Joe saying, Vanessa, people will be very, very difficult for people to decipher the origin of that. What is behind that? Primitivo and puglia is very, very trendy now. So there are I don't know if there are wine bars, if you caress, will not serve by the glass of primitivo. So it's a must to have a primitivo nowadays. Of course, what started and, of if I'm going back again, let's say, fifteen years, Yeah. What was number one is all the time was the amarone. Everybody started there. Amarone, the par Barolo, and this consylo wines. Yeah. But now more and more people, yeah, made medium income or novices to the to the business of wine will will will get Italy either from, I would say, pin agreed, or the other one is is is absolutely the primitiva. And for sex. And for sexual, of course. Yeah. We should talk about sparkling wines. Yeah. And what about organic wines? It's, the organic wines. Yeah. I told you. I know what the situation is with that one because I did a research. So there are seven or eight wineries who are organically certified. That's the the number of organic vineyards is increasing. Yeah. But but few. Few. So I if I'm thinking hard, I can even tell you exactly how many hectares are organically subdivide. So it's it's not yes. New consumers will have this will be a very, very conscious approach. You can get the label what they are consuming. Yeah. But it's all the time. Look at the income of those people. Yeah. So if you look at the income and you say, wow, who are the people who permit to themselves to to look at the label by more expensive? Food, let's say to pick because we start with the food when we talk about organic things. Yeah. But I do I do think that is that is that is important. But it's it's small vermont, yeah, too. It's in baby shoes. There is a culture, the research about match, food, and wine, wine, and food. A research not, but but but but now it's it's it's evident. It's e everywhere. Yeah. Everywhere. So there are no there are no events where you food is not served as at least some cold cuts, some salami, and things like that. But and more and more people are going now in an investment anyway, and we have A lot of TV shows have started recently, have promoting this this mainly the food and after the next to it, for the wine pairing. Do you have other questions? My email is there. So if you have Other questions, sir. Oh, you for any reason, you need really, really, really exact figures on the industry or things like that. I can help you with that one. So you don't have to struggle to Google and to ask yourself if is it true or not. I can help you with that anytime. So No question with Landruzco. I ask him by email. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you, ImRez, for, you know, an cool presentation for the romanian potential. Yes. Thank you to everybody from being here. So Have a nice have a nice evening. We hope you enjoyed today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, quests and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.