Ep. 1129 How To Use Wine Apps For Sales/Market Share | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Italian wine podcast, a wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner, is proud to present a series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. I'm I'm Valentino de Camilo. I'm a winemaker and I'm in charge of global sales, the new depowery, my family run business in Britain, the central part of Italy. I'm really happy to be here with all of you, finally. Thank you, Steve. Kim. And thank you once, Ryan. Thank you, Amy. Coming back to Italy. So, yes, in the morning, before leaving for the Rona, I was, in my small apartment in Frankavil Almani in Ambrutso. And I was trying to, you know, write down a few lines to best introduce Amy. And my first idea was, you know, thinking about, Texas, the place. Amy comes from. But, I've only been there once, so I know not about it enough to be an so interesting introductory topic. So I continued to look up the sea through my window. Yeah. I live in front of the city. And, in this period, up the year, there, there are so beautiful, crazy colors. So I just was waiting for inspiration. But, I was distracted by, the beep of, WhatsApp message from my phone. And, a different of mine was texting me. Does it owe them yet? I'm just going to jump into the sea and say, okay. I mean, it seems a bit odd, but due to a very, very hard season over there, we are all a bit out of it. Some bit beep was the reason why I took up my eyes to the sea, and I went back. And, I I looked around me, and it was like, boom. It was my first time pay attention to all the objects in my apartment. And, the furniture, the chair, the table, even the soldier, coffee, sugar, all purchased, online. And, because I I my apartment was renovated in the middle of pandemic. And, while I was reflecting on this, it never happened before to me, I was, I started to messing around online, doing a little research for buying these chandeliers. The pandemic has, completely underset, uncertain our lives. As well as, shopping habits. And the pandemic has changed us forever. It's a fact. Today's users of mobile devices, spend more than one on one hundred fifty daily minutes on them. And we catch the the the smartphone more than two thousand five hundred times a day. It's crazy. And this is, filled by a new lifestyle building around This, one phenomenon, social media. Social media is all about engagement. And, being part of the the the conversation around topics of, interest has become a widespread need. And, with that in mind, it should not be a surprise. The wine is, among the top eight categories being discussed online. Wine is about engagement as well. Most people share a bottle when drinking wine. No matter if it's a business event or a private party with friends, consumers, enjoy a sick together. That means that for our wineries, it's crucial, to catch all these opportunities the the engage disengagement, can offer. And one half represent a huge chance. To do this and to, you know, to drive people to help people to choose the best one for them, and for sure for us to increase. So My question is, are we producers prepare, ready for the future? And, you know, which ones are the best hap for, you know, increase the sale. And today, we have Amy Gross, the CEO of Weislout, and she is back in town, to share with us, the overview of the one HAPS landscape and to give us a very deep, interesting deep dive into wine hubs to watch. So, Amy, we are all ears. Thank you. Well, thank you, Valentina. I hope that your apartment looks lovely with all of your purchases that have that have come across. You're right. Our our the way we're buying things is definitely different. Everything that we're buying now from you know, simple office supplies to close, and obviously what we're gonna talk about today, wine is very different. And it was moving that way before the pandemic, but the pandemic really advanced things, especially for wine, I think that we can all agree that it it pushed us forward maybe five to seven years digitally. Before we were thinking about digital, I was always thinking about digital, but many of you were probably thinking about it and you knew that you needed to begin but now, you really, really must. So I'm so grateful to be back to presenting to you again. The last time I had a little bit of a different perspective on wine apps as we've seen things grow. So I'm looking forward to sharing that with you. Thank you so much. State telling trade agency for bringing me back. And, also, thank you, all of you producers for making gorgeous wine and sending it to the US so that, I can enjoy it there with my friends. So I truly, truly appreciate that as well. I'm gonna let you know a little bit about me. As I said, I've been here before talking about wine apps, but you you may not have been there a couple years ago. So I both come from the tech side of the world and the wine side of the world. And technology, I developed a flavor based recommendation engine that can help recommend wines, beers, ciders based on flavor characteristics. What I found is that consumers want to find a wine that they're going to enjoy the flavor of that. And so I worked with sensory scientists at Cornell University, wine makers, wine educators, data scientists, and applied mathematicians to come up with a learning algorithm that use data that we collect from a human tasting panel, so not chemical analysis. It's a human tasting panel. And, I know that sounds really crazy, so I will let you know that our tasting panel repeats at ninety percent or higher. Whenever they're using our methodology to analyze these wines or to characterize those wines. So aside from that, that threw me into working with IBM Watson, which is their machine learning arm, And whenever I was working with them, I ended up traveling globally with them to educate their retail team on how machine learning could be used in the retail setting, in the e commerce setting, and also how critical data integrity is for machine learning. So machine learning is a great buzzword. It's a lot of fun. It only works if you've got really, really clean, clean data. So that's the tech side. Wine side, I've whenever I first started working in the wine app, and building it, I started, by becoming a wine writer, posting a podcast. I have a YouTube channel. I've hosted, over seventy live virtual tastings with between twenty and sixty people in each of them over the past year. So I know that we've all had some COVID projects, and that was mine. So all this work, yes, I'm a wine app developer. I've developed several of them for events for wineries for the app store, but I'm gonna tell you that, wine apps the way that you're probably thinking them are really not the answer. There are a lot of interesting things. And I think that at one point, there was a lot that we could do with those wine apps. But, what I wanna let you know is there are actually two different kind of wine apps. They're native. And they're mobile responsive. So first, we're gonna look at what native wine apps are. And so if you look just at the iOS app store, that's for the iPhone, there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of apps for food and drink. And when we look at the top one hundred oops. I didn't go ahead. When we look at the top one hundred of the free apps, you can see out of the top one hundred, only two of them deal with wine. Right? And one is a retailer One, is Vivina, which you might have heard of Hine's presentation just Smith next door. And then in the paid apps, there's only three Deli Parr, which is a pairing application, quirks, and wine maps. Wine maps is really, for people that are learning where different wineries are and what's in a different wine region, quarks is a recommendation engine in some way. But if you look out of all of those apps, those are just the ones that have the top downloads. Now, as I said, there are thousands. If you were to go on the w of the food and drink, there are pages of ones that even just start with with wine, and wine apps that are native apps that live on your phone definitely do have a place. I we've done survey after survey to find out how people are using apps. Vavino, surprisingly, I don't know how you guys feel, but I have found that a lot of our surveys show us that people, consumers are using Vavino to check prices. So they're checking prices whether it's because a gift that they've received, and they wanna see how nice the gift was, or if they're out trying to decide whether they should make that purchase or not, Now the problem with that is you need to keep an eye. So if you're looking out at wine apps, Vavino is one that you wanna check-in with, and you wanna see what their data is saying because you wanna make sure that it's right. And sometimes even that price is if if it's being accurate for what it can be purchased for in the regions where you're selling your wine and your markets, you need to make sure that that is as accurate as possible because you don't want people to assume that they're in the wrong price range. What I've also found when surveying Sommeliers and Beverage directors in America is there are some beverage directors that do make their choices of what wines to put on their list or to sell based on those ratings because they know that a lot of consumers are gonna come in and they're gonna check their ratings. So if your ideal consumer is using something like Vivino, To select wines, your rating is very, very important. Do all consumers use Vavino? Are they downloading it and using it? Are you looking for someone who's trying to search for a new wine? Or somebody who already understands what they want. We're finding that with Vavino, it's people that already know what they want. With people that are searching for something new, there might be a different place unless they're looking again for a gift and a price range and a rating which to go by. So that's just something. Another thing that's really interesting is, again, we're talking about the apps on your phones. The download versus usage is very, very different. As you can see, The purple is how many are downloaded by age group. Yes. I know people beyond sixty two download apps, but we're gonna start with this group here, and you'll see that people are downloading a many, many, many more apps than they're using. They're not coming across those apps unless they're on their home screen or unless they need them. You and I, you are looking up wine data every time. Your average consumer is not looking up wine data all the time. And so Once again, you gotta make sure that if they're gonna download it, are they gonna use it? So is a native wine app really the answer? Then we look at how how much people there are using native wine apps, what are they doing on them? And if you take a look and you can see e commerce, which we were talking about, there's so much e commerce that's happening. It's only two point six percent of the average weekly time on mobile apps is being used making purchases browsing shopping. Typically, they're getting in, they're buying, and they're getting out if they're using the native mobile app. So I was, again, app developer telling you people aren't using them. I was hopeful of a whole lot of use whenever we built our initial native app. I wanted to help people find the right one. I thought for sure that's the way to do it. Whenever the App Store was first launched, mobile was really not all that great. Now mobile is fantastic. And because of that, Not because of all of that usage, but you see nineteen billion was sold in wine is projected, pardon me, to be projected by twenty twenty four. It was five point six billion last year in the US. And wine e commerce alone. Yes. COVID had something to do with that. But the wineries that were positioned to have great relationships with potential buyers were able to capitalize on that. Those that, had integrations that they could reach out, they could do virtual tastings, and then show people how to buy their wines, where to buy their wines. Not all these wines have to be purchased from the winery directly, which is not really an option for you in the US. But you can communicate to your those who are interested in you where those wines can be purchased. And the more that you can engage with them, the better opportunity you're gonna be. So the wine industry reacted really, really well to COVID by creating engaging comments by following up on relationships and growing those relationships and answering searches for what wines people might be interested. And again, they made the shopping easy by letting people know where that they could buy these wines. Now on that search thing, this may not be why. We all know that Amazon, at least in the US, is not selling wine. We've tried a couple times, but seventy eight percent of the searches on Amazon are not branded. So most likely, they're not gonna be looking for your brand in particular unless you already have that relationship. So if you're looking to build that relationship, you need to be where the search is, and you need to be in a place where you can track that search and you can see what they're doing and what they're doing after they they leave you. So whenever, again, the app store started, wine apps were really the answer. Any kind of native app was the answer because mobile browsing was horrible. It was slow. Web sites were not situated in a way that you could search them very well. Now sites are becoming mobile responsive and doing much better with what you can do whenever you're searching. In addition to searching though, you need to be able to keep that shopper. If you're able to just keep the shopper there by growing that relationship, just five percent of those that are already buying your product, You can increase your profits twenty five to ninety five percent. So, again, it's engaging those shoppers that are already familiar with your brand to stay with your brand to find out what else that they like so they can stay with you. Okay. So I've talked about these a couple things. How can you grow these sales and increase market share, answering the right searches, and growing the relationships And I'm gonna say instead of using the native app, which is the app that's downloaded on your phone with a little icon, you wanna use mobile responsive integrations. And so mobile responsive integrations, I'm gonna give you a quick just to make sure that we know. Whenever we're looking at native apps, these are things that are on the App Store or on Google Play, they're device specific. So whenever you're building that application, your team, you are paying somebody something to vet, you guys aren't developers as well. Your team has to build for Android and has to build for Apple. Yes. There are some apps that can be used both ways, but they're not gonna use the native function on the phone as well. So you're paying for two different things. Your search engine optimization is very different. It's set aside somewhere else. They're not really sending people to your site so that you can continue that relationship. The platform is the operating system. They own that. You don't. So if there's a problem with the operating system and it goes down. I don't know if anyone had that Facebook outage, you know, last week. If something happens with that operating system, you are in trouble. Whenever you have an update or anything, you've gotta get it approved. There are some really strict design guidelines. Integration with your site is a challenge. And there's a download barrier. I mean, I will even confess that Stevie and the introduction said, how many of you have swap cards? And I was like, oh my gosh. I'm an app person, and I didn't even download it yet. So I was coming back out into the Wi Fi so I could download it. So this is another thing. Your your users have to download. Or as before, we saw that as a plus, now it's a barrier to entry. If you look at a mobile responsive bill, so whatever you're talking with your developers, or talking about other tools, a mobile responsive build. It's one build. It's mobile responsive. It works on a phone, an Android, an iPhone, a tablet, an iPad, a laptop, a desktop, It's one build, and it's changed so you can see it everywhere. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Your SEO applies because you're integrating into what you're doing. So whenever you're reaching out and you're searching, all of your search can continue in the same place. You can grow up on that nice SEO juice. You can hold on to that relationship. You own the platform. Which means you own that relationship with the user. So, again, if something happens to somebody else, that's not a problem for you, and you can keep that data, which I think is absolutely critical. So that's something I would consider whenever you're working with any kind of mobile tool or any kind of digital tool. You wanna make sure that you can keep or collaborate with them on the data for the visitors that are touching your product. Because you wanna use that. You wanna find out what they're doing, why they're doing it so you can build that relationship. Again, oh, this one, you can integrate super easy with a link or a wrap. We have integrations on winery websites that look like your staying on the winery website, you're not. You're coming out onto our server and then going back in. But we're pointing you to what wines you want from that winery, but it looks like it's all on that site. Easy to access. Rediscovery of the QR code. Right? We all are back in the QR code world. We thought it was dying, and now it's back. So all you do is pop it up. Boom. Your mobile app is accessible. You don't have to download it. You're right into where you need to go to learn more about your winery. And as I said, that the data collection is absolutely absolutely a critical aspect of this. So searches, whenever you want, I'm going back. So we figured out now that a mobile responsive web integration or app is better than the native app, but then we've gotta make sure we're answering the searches. The research that we're finding is people are searching by price, reputation, food pairing if they're in a restaurant, or they're planning a menu, and flavor. People are afraid sometimes to buy online because they don't know what it tastes like. So the better it is that you can explain to them what it tastes like if you're if you're requiring a new consumer, that helps them. These are all things that you wanna make sure that all of the content that you're doing is answering these questions about your wine. And quite honestly, you need to be very honest about the price and the food pairing and the flavor. Because if you're not giving accurate data, people aren't going to trust you. Reputation, it's harder for you to control so much because there's so much out there, but it's still important for you to see what's being said and respond to those things. Analytics. It's e n o l y t I c s, is a great resource to find out where your wines are being sold, where they're being purchased, which is not sometimes different than being sold. And see what people are interested in different areas. So that can help you in determining what searches that you wanna respond to, so that you can capture those those shoppers. Obviously, my favorite search is flavor. And so I just kinda wanna take you through something that we created that was an integration for a really large wine competition and wine garden in Houston, Texas. What you would have learned about Texas is that we take rodeo very seriously, all those rodeo animals that do things, but we also take wine very seriously at the rodeo. And actually, our wine competition raises millions of dollars in scholarship money for agriculture students and inologists every year. So, now that I have I hope I haven't scared you too much with the, you know, horseshoes and everything up there. So what we did for the rodeo, wine garden this past, it was right before COVID. So we had a whole five days of, of interaction with this. And we built this web responsive, a mobile responsive app that they wrapped into their mobile app, and then they also put it on their website. So people could come in and they could say, I would like a white wine. I don't want bubbles. These are the flavor. This is the flavor preference I have. And as they're pushing these, they're making their selection, it's immediately changing the wine list that they're getting. And then they can click on any of those to see the flavor profile of the wine. And here's what happened. Houston, Texas, is a it's chardonnay country, and Cabernay country, and it's big Okey chardonnay country. And here's what happened. They sold more albireño, highly acidic, grape fruit, grape citrus, They sold more Alvarino in three days than they sold for the entire run of the show in the previous years, and the run of the show is three weeks. And this was because people finally were not saying, we'll all have the chardonnay they were looking and they were buying wines based on their flavor, and it made a huge impact. Then because it was a mobile responsive build when COVID came to town and the rodeo was shut down, and they had all this wine that needed to be sold to raise money for the scholarships. Everything could go right on their site, and they did the same thing to sell the wine on the site. So it was a lovely little, you know, COVID silver lining to kinda show us how important that is to do. So, again, there are other searches. Other ways you can do that, we can build other searches as well based on whatever you wanna search by. People have approached us about building on how wine is made, you know, biodynamic organic, that sort of thing, region, that sort of thing. We've been talking with a couple of regions about building an application that would showcase all the wines that region based on flavor. So if someone wants to try something new with some confidence they can. But I really wanna go back too. And I know this isn't so much more the tech, but you're gonna learn about all these tools today from so many other great presenters. The important thing is really growing that relationship. And, again, the native app makes it more difficult and integration makes it easier. You wanna pursue clients where they're interested. You wanna maintain that relationship data. So working with applications, again, that you can share that data so that they're benefiting, you're benefiting, and you're helping to grow your reach. And again, I cannot say it enough. Own your primary platform. If your primary platform or where you're putting things into is run by somebody else, It leaves a lot of space open for an outage, a problem, a change. My company had a partnership with IBM Watson, which is a pretty big company. I I'm gonna think everybody here has probably heard of IBM and one way or another. And we were trying to integrate a, a flavor API that they were using about foods with our wine API. And we talked to grocery stores globally, and we were getting close on landing deals. And they ended up buying the weather company and said, you know what? We don't really care about the food aspect of this anymore and and the we we wanna do weather because we can tell people that when it's cold, they should buy different foods. I thought, are you kidding me? Because we had invested all this time and effort in this API that they were gonna continue with. And when they yanked the API, that changed my entire opportunity with them to something completely different. So own your own your platform, know who you're working with, collaborate with them so that you're sharing data. And again, use the mobile responsive, applications so that you can have it in any way, shape, or form. I'm telling you to collect all this data. You don't need a data scientist. So many companies today have dashboards that you can take a really good look at it and you can see what's going on. Also, whenever you're building in a mobile responsive way, you can use Google Analytics. Google Analytics is cheap. It's easy. It explains things rather nicely. Yes. Of course, you can go more integrated. You can get much more depth from other things, other insight platforms. But you'd be surprised how much you can learn from Google Analytics without a tech background that's gonna help you see what's working, what's getting clicked on, and what isn't. Why consumption increased by three point five million cases in twenty twenty? Again, yes, we know that COVID had something to do with that. But that they could have been drinking something else. They could have been doing something else. A lot of people chose wine. Grocery stores that I was about to work with said, we can't even keep the wine on the shelf. So we'll, you know, we'll come back to you in a little bit. But part of that was because, again, wineries responded really, really well to the changing digital environment. But we can keep it up. So we can't get lazy. We can't stop. We've gotta take these digitally savvy users, the people that weren't so savvy, that weren't buying things on e commerce, and now they are. Let's take them to that next level. And also remember, as we every year, three million digitally savvy customers are added to the roles every year because people are getting, oh, you know, people are growing up. They're becoming twenty one, but these are people that are digital natives. They've always had digital. So you need to reach with them. Even if their tradition of your winery isn't digital, you need to learn how to work with partners so that you can reach out effectively, digitally, and do the right thing. I'm I know I'm a broken record, but you've got to answer the right search and you've gotta grow those relationships. And the way to do that is through mobile responsive integrations that you can learn what your what your customers are doing, and you can stay with them, from there on out. So I'm gonna stop there, but I want you to know that if you have any questions, I want to leave a lot of time because I kinda might have thrown you off by saying lineups a different way than you expected. So if anyone's got anything, I'm ready. Yeah. We have the minutes for questions. Absolutely. So what we've done in the past is so whenever you are whenever you hit the shop wines, do you wanna ask again so it's on the recording, or is it okay? Okay. I can ask you again. So, and my question is, so, basically, like, how it will look like on the one of your websites. So like your visitors visiting your website, how it interacts with the app you're talking about. So what we've done is whatever it you will you would go to the shop wines aspect or to your wine shop. There's a button that says explore wines by flavor or explore wines by style. So we've done that. That's been more often for us at restaurants and then one or two wineries that you could do that. In that way, you go in And it's similar to what that is, but this one is a mobile. It's a slider that you can move over. And they're beginning questions, which are a lot easier, oak, sweetness, body finish. And then for anyone that wants to get a little more in-depth, we go into minerality. Spice. We're working with a tasting room that wanted us to do. I want something classic and funky and then go from there. So because we're really into integration and making things look the way that the winery wants to look and also the way that the consumers are are searching. So we just add either add a button or add a link to another page. Mhmm. Thank you. Sure. Hi, Amy. How are you? I'm great. How are you? Good. Steve Ray from, Bevology. One of the questions I hear from a lot of producers when I go into details about whether it's e commerce or whatever the thing of the day happens to be is, well, how do I get started? I don't have the expertise in house. Yes. I have a fifteen year old son, but he was gonna college in a couple of years. This all sounds wonderful, but it also sounds like really won't get in the chocolate factory as far as their ability to apply it. How do they make that leap first step? Well, obviously, I would love to help anybody who's interested in doing that. But what you can do is what you you can go look at what technology you're interested in, what kinds of things that you wanna do reach out to some of these app developers that you've seen that you enjoy because now a lot of them are working to integrate. So I want to say that you do not need to most likely build something yourself If you reach out to a lot of the other app companies out there, many of them are working to integrate. I mean, that's that's because they're finding that the native app is really not the answer anymore. It's really so much more on working, integrating, building custom, building white label. So it's finding the tools that you want and then disapproaching them, and they'll they'll probably we we do it all the time. You use the word white label? Can you define that? Yes. Thank you. I'm I'm sorry about that. So white label is using somebody else's technology, but it looks like your technology. So you'll notice back on the, rodeo one. Actually, if you even look here, so this is Fox Run, which is a winery in the Finger Lakes This looks completely like their their technology. This is what they had in their tasting room. And it's our technology, but it looks like it's their technology. So white label means we're building a simple build that many companies can use by changing and putting in their branding on it rather than our branding on it. We want you to succeed because when you succeed, we succeed. So that's what white labeling means. That was a good question. Thanks. Any other question? Please reach out to me. I'm happy to and I I'm not just gonna send you to my own company. But if you want help on integration, I'll go back to my contact information. Whoops. Feel free to drop me a note and or give me your card. I'll give you mine whatever, and I'd be happy to help point you in the right direction. I came to this business as a consumer that wanted to find it easier to find wines. I found it was challenging and frustrating, and I didn't wanna have to study to find the right wine for me. Now I love the studying aspect of it. But I just spent a weekend with my mom in in a wine region, and it was a riot to listen to the questions that that she had because it was beautiful because she just is, like, Wait a minute. There's not just grapes in the wine. There aren't strawberries in there. So you've gotta remember who your consumers are and stay in touch with who they are, and I'm happy. You know, we have all that data on what people are searching, what words they're using. I'm happy to help you, whether you end up working with us, or whether you go with somebody else. I just want it to be easier to buy the right ones. Thank you. I mean, thank you for your presentation. I can wait to come back to Texas. Learn more about it. Giddy up. Thank you. We have a couple of questions from our users online. Alright. Question this. So the first one is, what are the relative weights of price, reputation, food bearing, and flavor in terms of decision making for online purchase? So which what what are they or what's the order? What are the relative weights? The relative weights. So so how are they able to search by those things? So right now, people are really just putting them in the search engine, and they're looking for that. There are several companies that are trying to become the search engines for wine. I think that Google's kinda got that going on. They're they're pretty much what everyone's doing. Unfortunately, right now, a lot of people are just searching or they might go to a winery website and try but they're having a hard time doing that. So I think making it easier for them to search is really, really important. Find out what people want to know about wine and use those, you know, use those search keys in what you're doing. Find something that you can filter on your winery website so that whenever they get there, they can find what they wanna find. Thank you. And the second one is mobile responsive apps are definitely attractive. But this user wonder what can't you do with mobile responsive apps? That's a good question. Okay. And I'm glad that I'm glad that they asked that. One of the things that mobile responsive apps don't do as well is use the native tools within the application. This is where Vivino totally wins because you can take a photo of the wine or you can scan it. That is not something that you can do easily on a mobile responsive app. I'm really glad that you asked that question. Or the person online, whoever you are. You can upload photos, but that's fall short because I know I don't know about the rest of you, but anytime I have to upload a photo, it's like, you know, I I got it takes an extra minute. You gotta do that. So one of the things native apps are better at photos, scanning, and also, notifications, sending notifications to users. You can go around that notification challenge, though, by having people sign up for SMS messaging, which is extremely popular. And you can say, you know, sign up and get this or that sort of thing, give them a perk for signing up for the SMS messaging. Again, you're owning that relationship. If it's notifications from the mobile app, you're not owning that relationship. So you can't really see the engagement as well as you can. Whenever you're doing SMS messaging. And so I wonder, like, for example, like, within all your talking about initial database you need to build, then, probably, sir, something, there are the initial database to work with. So in this case, the mobile app, what's your initial database? Is it from, like, Google engine, when people searching the flavors, the styles of one, or how do you work? So the way that we work is we found that tasting notes for the wines, we're actually not always that accurate, especially community generated tasting notes, and reviews because often they're influenced by other reviews, because somebody doesn't wanna dumb, so they're gonna see what okay. They said it was cherry notes, so I'm gonna say it has notes at cherry. What we've done is we came up with a methodology to analyze wines based on a set flavor rubric, which is not just what we showed you there. It's many other things that pull into that. And then we use that to start our database on the flavor. And so whenever somebody moves those sliders, it's pulling from that flavor data, or any of the other attributes that we're building to search by. To come up with the results. And then the next step we can even do is build a we have a learning algorithm that can make instant recommendations, but that only works when the user comes back and says, yes, I like that. No, I don't like that. But then what we can do is whenever you introduce new wines and we analyze that wine, then we can say, oh, hey, this new wine is just been introduced, and we know that you're going to enjoy it based on what you've liked or not liked in the past. So we take that data. One of the things that we found, people thought, okay, you're gonna make people drink the same kind of wine all the time. And interesting thing that happened at Fox Run, this is a winery in the Finger Lakes region of New York that has a lot of rieslings. And, someone came in and went and said I only drink red wine, but he used the application anyway, and he ended up taking home a case of semi dry riesling. So it does help people branch out into other areas with more confidence, and it's because our database is accurate. So you have the questions, basically, to eliminate, like, what you don't like, then you answer a question, then, yeah. No. You just move the move the flavor sliders, like, what's what's the intensity of oak, what's the intensity of, you know, dried as sweet, and then it it throws that. That way, there's less subjectivity with the questions. And it just it just goes right onto that, and then it it puts them in, and then we could start building an account and then tracking. Mhmm. Interesting. Thank you. Sure. We hope you enjoyed today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona, Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, quests and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.