Ep. 1223 WSET Throughout The Pandemic | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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So just bear with me one second. They should be here in a minute just to, introduce myself. So my name is Rachel Webster, and I'm the business development director, at WSET. And today, we're going to be talking about the development of WSTT throughout the pandemic. So probably no surprises for any of you out there listening today on what we've done, because multiple other businesses have been in the same situation as us. But we're gonna talk a little bit about us in general and how we've really had to adapt, to be able to suit the pandemic, which, obviously, being global is is not been the easiest thing. Next slide, please. So as I said, this is a little bit about me. I've been at WST for, just over nine years now, and I've always worked in the international team. So looking after all of our approved pro program providers globally, but I had a big focus on the Americas to Canada, Central and South America for a long time, and also supported my colleagues, Jude, out in Hong Kong, but now I look after Europe, Middle East, Africa and India. But again, it's still a really vast area. It does say on my blurb there that I speak Spanish in Italian, I would say that with, two years of not being able to travel, perhaps my linguistic skills are are, dropping somewhat, but we'll see later. So, hopefully, there won't be too many questions in Italian, but I'll I'll give it my best. So I look after, as I said, Europe, Middle East, Africa and India, WST, But I look more at how we bring education to people, so how we support our APPs, how we market ourselves, to potential students. I also look at some of the decision making strategy in terms of markets that we might want to work in, but more so in products about, how we're going to examine our students, how people are going to read our literature and what's included in that literature. And I think during the pandemic, was enhanced even more so because there was some quick, rapid decision making that happened very early on in the pandemic in March twenty twenty. Okay. Next slide, please. So I need to paint a little bit of a background to WST I know probably all of you are very familiar with what we do. But essentially, we are the world's leading provider of wine, spirits, and sake qualifications. We have a progressive format of study, so we can really take those who have no prior knowledge absolute beginners, and we can develop them all the way to expert level, and traditionally that happens in the classroom. So we have a skills based approach to learning, because really we want the students to be, making the decisions that how they're learning, what they're learning, and how they can use that either in their job, or at home if they're enjoying wine. Next slide, please. So just a few numbers, I just think it's important to get an update about, where WSTT is. So actually last year, in the pandemic year, we had a hundred just over a hundred and eight thousand candidates globally. And it was actually, our highest number ever, and that was in twenty twenty twenty one academic year. So the the year that finished at the end of July this year, and that's quite phenomenal considering these, the global, status, you know, that we were in, still with travel restrictions, still with, social distancing restrictions, etcetera, etcetera, So to have one of our biggest years, has really been a triumph. But again, that that hasn't been plain sailing, and I will explain that a little bit in more detail later on. So we have eight hundred APPs globally. And I've got a slide in a minute, which will show you where those based. But that's in about seventy, markets globally. I'm sorry. If you could just go backslide, thank you. Thank you. And we have nine different qualifications, and we started operating in nineteen sixty nine. And I think that is one thing that certainly stood us in really good stead in the pandemic because we are so well integrated into the industry not only here in the UK, but in in some of our key markets. Across the world. And I think, it's our diverse kind of spread, of, markets and where our APPs have been based, which has been, which has allowed us to ride the pandemic not without its issues, of course, but, to ensure that we still have students who are able to study because of the different restrictions that are going on globally. And so a little bit more detail about my region specifically that I look after so we have the oldest market. That's the UK. So that's where obviously we were established by the trade, in nineteen sixty nine. But now across the whole region, we're just shy of forty thousand candidates. Four hundred ABPs. So half of the global amount fall in in my region, and I'd say a hundred, also more of that would be in the UK itself. Fifty markets out of this seventeen. So quite a large proportion there. And then about thirty nine, forty percent of total candidate numbers. So a really large, area. And our key markets within that would be the UK, France, India, Turkey, Spain, and Italy, obviously, is is doing particularly well at the moment. Next slide, please. And so here's a list of our active markets. And I've put this on here not to show all of the different places that we we work, but I want to put us into context in terms of the pandemic. On how many different, markets we were working with and are working with, because every single one of these is very likely to have had different pandemic restrictions imposed upon them different ideas from the government about how the pandemic should be managed. Certain different levels of, kind of, vaccination rate and speed that that went out, the kind of speed of return back to normality. And some that weren't impacted at all, in some instances. So, really, we when we were putting kind of a global plan together, at the beginning of lockdown, we had to take that into consideration. We had to be led by what the UK government were telling us and how we could operate from our London office, but we also have an office in Hong Kong, and we do have one in America as well. So we had to adapt to those two. But then we had to make decisions based on what was going to be best for such a diverse global audience. And I think that is where we had the biggest discussions, and you'll see the impact of that later on, in the presentation. Next slide, please. I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce my colleague, Verdi. Verdi, is not here today, unfortunately. It would have been great to have her here as well. But she, is part of the EMEA team. She's been at WST since twenty fifteen, and she looks after all of our business development and supporting our APPs looking after our markets in Southern Europe, and that includes Italy. So I wanted, to introduce her. She's been looking after the APPs, specifically in Italy, and we're gonna talk about three APPs later on what they've done. During the pandemic. She's been absolutely instrumental in making sure that those decisions that we made ahead of this are transferred appropriately to our providers who can then in turn transfer those to their candidates, and to make sure that the impact of the pandemic has been lessened as much as possible. So that's parity. Next slide, please. So again, a bit of context, so why WLS Why would someone's WWFT team have been around for a long time? Most people in the industry would know us, particularly here in the UK, but that varies from market to market. I'm not gonna read through all of these, but what I want concentrate on is those last four that we've got here because again, this is where our decision making was really coming into play during the pandemic. So I've already mentioned before that there are skills based approach to education. That's what we use in the classroom and traditionally classroom format with about ninety plus percent of our students studying in a physical classroom space. So that's one that's our first, benefit, but during the pandemic, our first problem that we had We also have a key focus on, tasting skills development. And again, that's our second, benefit, but during the pandemic, obviously, with the restrictions that was impacted, and we had to look at ways around, how to deal with that. Online and classroom study options. Absolutely. We do. We have had our online classroom set up, for quite some time, but that is only available in English. So again, that's great, but during the pandemic, there was another restriction that came, there. And then the last one, this is a new insert. So flexible course delivery solutions. I think pre pandemic as I said, about ninety ninety five percent of our students studied, in the classroom, in a very traditional format. And we, look after our APPs, support our APPs, But by that, they have session plans. They have our materials. They have power points that they can use. And so it would probably be interpreted as relatively rigid because we want to make sure that students are reaching their learning outcomes that the educators are fully supported and have got all of the materials they need. But the very first thing during the pandemic, flexibility was something that we really, really had to address very, very quickly. So we'll we'll go on and talk about that later. And we're also government accredited, by off call. And during the beginning of the pandemic, we had to be very mindful to work with them and always update them on our activities and our decision making, some of which were restricted because of the rules that they had in place, off call, obviously because they accredit us, have quite strict regulations. But one thing that did happen during the pandemic is that they were much more flexible as well, allowing us to be flexible and bring these flexible options to to people. So just a brief slide here, you all know that we do wines, our level 1s to four, We also do spirits one to three and, obviously, sake, one and three. So I'm not gonna go into our qualifications in detail. But again, it's just there so that you understand the diversity of of what we were trying to offer during the pandemic. Next slide, please. Again, I've already talked about this a little bit, our progressive learning pathway, and how we develop those skills. And again, because of the pandemic, we had to really consider these four elements when we were introducing changes. So level one is all about exploring. So it's really kind of physical, you know, getting involved in the classroom showing different styles, food, and wine pairing is really hands on. And obviously, when we went into the pandemic and lockdown, we had to find an alternative way to deal with that. Level two is about understanding. So again, it's about that repetitive, learning in the classroom this tasting of examples to learn the theory and the tasting skills. Level three, we expect expect the student to be giving us the or the educators that information that they've learned, you know, in their own study time. Bringing that to live again, developing their tasting skills, in the classroom with the physical tasting samples in front of them, and explaining why and how they taste as they do. And and at level four, so our diploma level, again, that's beginning beginning to introduce analytical skills. So again, it's kind of discussions, open forum, brainstorming about, you know, how all of the different elements in winemaking or in different markets or in different locations all will impact the the final outcome of the taste of the wine or the style of wine. And and to do that, it it really does, take group discussion. So again, one of our our problems during the pandemic Next slide, please. So I wanted to just, introduce a timeline of what we did, in the pandemic. So, obviously, Italy was one of the first European countries that that really saw the impact of the pandemic, before we did here in the UK, we were a couple of weeks, behind on that. And but at the beginning of March, we really knew that this well, we didn't know very much. And I think that was half of the problem. We There was no predictability on what was going to happen. We didn't know the severity of of what was happening. So in March twenty twenty, when suddenly we were faced with a national lockdown, multiple other markets were, we made a decision to introduce what we technically call option three. It's not the most glamorous of names, and that won't be changing. But option three is where we allow digital conferencing to be used. So never before, apart from extreme circumstances, could we encourage the use on platforms such as zoom, or teams to facilitate? A mock of the classroom learning. So that was something that we did pretty much overnight. We made sure that, APPs had the support. They had to contact us to let us know if that's what they wanted to do so that we could talk through some of the different skills that they would need to be able to teach online. We would obviously talk to them about samples, and that it comes on to the next month there, April twenty twenty. So It's not the only company that we work with, but WST worked and had prior to the pandemic had already worked with Finaby, to sort out miniature wine samples that match the recommended samples in our specifications. And this was really important to make more widely available for people, for our APPs or for our students, and samples that we had checked the quality of. We knew that they were meeting the requirements of of the special applications, and that students could order or APPs could order and they delivered to their home in the condition that we were expecting them to arrive in. So having these samples, being able to be sent to people at home, allowed them to continue doing the classroom calls, but via a virtual platform on Zoom teams, etcetera. The sessions were elongated because you can't cover the same in an hour and a half online as you can in a classroom. We need a few more breaks because, obviously, online studying is really hard. But the EMEA team, in particular, really supported the ADPs in either using those of an revised samples or sourcing their and we will come on to some case studies where people actually started making their own and sending them out, by post or, delivering them if restrictions allowed them to, hand deliver them as well. In May twenty twenty, we introduced remote invigilation. I'm gonna talk in more detail on a separate slide about this, because I think this is the one thing that really was a massive game changer for WS and for our students and for our providers in being able to continue, operating during that pandemic. In July twenty twenty, we also released our ebooks. So and traditionally we have, paper copies of our materials, which are sent to people's addresses. But in July twenty twenty, we made all of those available, in an ebook, which again meant that any disruptions to courier, posting, could be avoided and people had their materials in front of them, they could read them at home, or if they were able to go into work on their commute, etcetera. And then the future, there's a future button there and everything I'm gonna talk about or have talked about, I also want to reassure everyone that we're still kind of developing what we introduced during the pandemic. Some of those have brought us real opportunities and we have needed to be careful and needed to be apprehensive about things, but actually the last eighteen months has been a really important test bed for WSTT, and allowed us to be more flexible, allowed our providers to be more flexible, And so we're really working with the learnings that we've had over that time, to be able to bring some of these options to kind of a permanent status, for WSTT, so we won't be withdrawing. Our option three or our remote invigilation, our aim now is to make them even better and more even more accessible to our students. So I'll talk a little bit more about them in more detail on across the next slides. And so next slide, please. So I said about ninety percent, ninety five percent of our students will will study in person. So in a classroom, they will go together and have their samples, have their teaching as a as a group. But that in the pandemic wasn't allowed, and I said that we introduced video conferencing to mimic the classroom activity. A lot of countries were in lockdown for two to three months. Some a little bit longer. Here in the UK, we were in and out, like, a yoyo, really, with different levels of of lockdown and being able to take the in person courses onto the digital platform form meant that our ADPs could advertise courses using this format, and know that their plans won't going to be interrupted. So, you know, our level three course can run across three months, for example. So the status of restrictions would have been very different from the beginning to the end of those three months, but it allowed, consistency continuity for our ABBs and for our students and to go to study like that. And some APPs when it was a possibility did return to the classroom for finishing off, the the classes, and doing the exams, and also to do some testing days so the students got some real life group, tasting practice before they went into exams, etcetera. But something we really need to consider now, and London School has a really clear profile about how to do this is monitoring how we need to adapt the social distancing, passing around samples in a class, the additional hygiene in the capacity, whether we can request that people have COVID tests, etcetera. So again, each each market has had to adapt to their local restrictions, but that's something that our business development teams will support our providers with, because more than anything we want our students to be comfortable, happy, feeling safe that they're going into the classroom that we've thought about, how best to operate, even now when there are still some restrictions and high levels of COVID in some markets. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guy to Italian wine, Sanjay, Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. And so virtual classes via video conferencing it, I I've already talked a lot about this, so I won't go into any more detail here. As I said, the ADP is generally sending the samples to people. So they've got exactly the same opportunities. They might be sending out miniatures or, recommending samples that need to be purchased by the student for, for delivery. Next slide, please. So our online classroom is a self guided learning opportunity which is monitored by an expert online educator. We made plenty of enhancements, during the pandemic to our online offering. So we moved platform. We updated the activities. We made it a lot more interactive with forums and videos, because we wanted to recreate that same, experience that people would have, in the actual physical classroom. Now it's monitored monitored by an online educator. There are activities to be done weekly, but there were no specific times where a student has to log in, so there's no group activity. But what is, a flex score option is that ABBs can add on to that so they can use the online classroom. But if they then want to bring in one or two zoom, calls as well, with their students, they can absolutely do that. So they can add on and do a hybrid of the online classroom and the the zoom options. And this is something that we've seen kind of develop more and more during the pandemic and one that we don't have restricted options on, so APPs can choose to have as much additional contact time with their students as they as they wish. With this option, students would normally source their own, samples. But during the pandemic, we did again see more AB who were sourcing them for them just because of the restrictions and local lockdowns inability to get out or it not being safe to go to the wine merchant or to the supermarket, but not being priority during, especially during the first few months of of lockdown. Next slide, please. So our biggest kind of introduction was with remote individuation exams. So this was introduced in twenty twenty. It's available for level one and level two exams in wine spirits and sake, but only in English. It does enable someone to study a hundred percent of their qualification remotely without leaving their own home if they wish. And and what we worked really hard on, is making sure that we were safeguarding the integrity of examination. So most of you who are familiar with WST team will know that all of our exams are in classroom. They're invigilated. They're very tight restrictions on what can happen during those exams, and the procedure of them marking their exams afterwards, etcetera. But so what we developed was the remote invigilation using a company called BTL, and we had to write guidance, to be able to give to providers and, guidance that, are needed to be given to students about how to set up, how to make sure that their exam wasn't invalidated. We produce videos to enable higher success rate, It certainly is not without its issues. You have to have, a very strong internet connection to be able to successfully complete the exam. You need two devices. So one way you're doing your exam and another camera that is watching you. And when we first went out, we released it and did some pilots, every single one of those exam videos were watched, processed by you know, QA team, actually, at WSTT to ensure, the integrity of those exams. Over time, we've been able to refine how those videos are viewed, how they're invigilated by VTL doctor app. And now we do sample testing to make sure that the integrity is is always, you know, been met, and our standards have been met. It's been on the whole a really successful way of being able to take your exam and actually is one that we will continue with post pandemic because it takes pressure on people having to travel somewhere for their exam. Some people prefer to study me. I will do their exam digitally, It's much better for some of those kind of special considerations that we, we need to define more accessible ways. So for those with dyslexia, etcetera, can change the screen format, and have a larger letters and different colors and all sorts. So it's much more accessible, a way of being able to be examined. We didn't, release this at level three because obviously that is where we also have a tasting element to be Sam, so we needed to further refine how that was possible and work will be ongoing, looking into that investigating the options that we have there. We were very we were in a very fortunate situation because prior to the pandemic, we had been working on a computer based testing, project. So where all of our exams in all languages would be available to be done on a computer, but in a classroom. So all a lot of the development had been done, a lot of the translation work had been done. So we were able to pick that up and plop that in to kind of the remote invigilation platform so that we could roll that out a lot faster. So we started doing pilots in April, in twenty twenty. So only a month after we went into lockdown, And then, we released that to ADPs towards the end of May in twenty twenty. And we had quite a an intake of students via that method, during those first kind of four months of lockdown. We then saw a little bit of ease off as restrictions became kind of less strict than people could return to their classroom. But then due throughout Europe, we went into the lockdown again in in Wyndham. Again, we saw a a deep rise. And now it's kind of settled out at a certain level, but there are particular markets that work really well, and and there's a real demand for remote invigilATION, the USA being one Canada, mostly because of the vast distances that people then don't have to travel to do their exam. So it's been a really popular choice. And something that we are working on now is looking at how we can further refine that offering. It's really important that we continue safeguard the integrity, but we make it really easy for our students and for our providers to to use, and reducing the technical issues, etcetera. We've done a really good job at moving through that over the last eighteen months, but We know that we can continue to refine that and improve those services. Next slide, please. So I just wanted to I haven't got too long left because I would like to see if there are any questions a bit later, but I want to talk about, that's three of our providers, in Italy who have been using these different, things in different ways. So here we've got flavio, So Flavio founded Accademia Vino, eleven years ago now, and one educator of the year last year. So I'm just gonna read off here what he said actually, and and Flavio really has been an absolute in operation, not only to our Italian ADPs, but to WST HQ. And, we we have talked about flavio an awful lot when we're speaking with with other providers elsewhere in the world as well. So real inspiration. And one of the APPs who turned the pandemic situation around really, really quickly for his own business in order to be able to still reach his own students. So he says that he's continued to offer e learning courses for all qualifications. And I can definitely guarantee that they were probably the first or second APP to test remote individuation exam. So they did some piloting for us as well. And here that he says that they're offering courses in a hybrid format, So again, that's zoom and, you know, obviously other platforms. There's still some live broadcasting. There's still some classroom, activities. But one thing that fabulous really done is embrace remote in visualization exams, but also, he has developed his own tasting samples in menial veinum, and they've proven to be incredibly successful. So not only are they being used for the digital options for Flavio, but they're also being used in the classroom, as well. So I think this is, a really, really good way of taking what WSTT have offered and it's law risk form, and really making it to Flavio's local market needs, his local restrictions, and the capability that he has with his team as well. So another, one of our educators, Christina McCuri, So she teaches, with her app, the wine club. And here, she says that the biggest challenge was to convey the message that online learning is exactly the same. And I think this is the beauty of using either our online classroom, platform. So the Canvas platform, and being able to add live content to that live, kind of, zoom catch ups and tasting samples. And that also the actual classroom itself, the, interactivity, the, of of the platform has been enhanced. And the group work is is, you know, really encouraged. And Christina, I know reaches out to her, her students uses zoom, and equivalents. And she says here that, you know, the benefit, really, if that is that students tend to be less shy, they They wait. They can digest that information. They can look through notes. They can make notes, while they're listening, and then they can raise their hand. And it's probably a little bit more of a controlled environment. Sometimes people in a classroom get a bit lost. It can be a bit intimidating. Those who are more confident and more outspoken will always get in there before them. So this has been a real benefit that Christina seen in the teaching. I think the as she said here, the challenges is for the educator because it's really exhausting. We've all done lots of webinars. We've all done her, you know, podcasts or lots of different ways of being online, being digital, and it's really exhausting. It's very difficult. At the moment, I'm speaking to a screen, and I don't know who's there. I don't know how many of you are there. I can't see the look on your faces to see if what I'm saying is relevant. And I think in the classroom, you get a feel when people are physically in front of you can really feel that energy that they're giving off. You can if someone's not following, whereas online when you're using Zoom, you really need to be an expert in reading those facial expressions, making people kind of keep their attention, engaging with the students in more activity, which they're for is gonna elongate the the course itself. So you're probably gonna have to put in more hours, of study as well or of learning, on those courses to make sure that things aren't missed off, that the pace isn't too fast, etcetera. And so our third APP here, is Matteo. So Matteo is based in Verona, but he does run courses throughout, Italy. So he has used a mix of Zoom classes supported by the WST online classroom. And the challenge is, he said it's about the tasting samples. And it's really hard if you can't physically see what other people have got in their glasses when they're in their own homes, or even if you're holding up the sample, it might look a different color depending on the light that you've got in your room. So I think that's what he found, quite difficult. However, over time, you can adapt to that. You can find different ways of sourcing samples, and actually at levels one and two in particular, really just getting people used to tasting, being a bit more confident with with tasting, their samples, whatever is in front of them, even if it doesn't always match for students, you know, in their own homes have have also got. And the benefit there is that the he's been working with much smaller groups, so there's been a higher level of interaction. I think that's why I was saying about Christina is that some of those groups are gonna have to be a bit smaller to make sure that you can really, still communicate effectively with those in the classroom, because things do take a little bit longer in there as that that barrier is an error of the physical computer screen in the way. And so I've talked all about education. I'm gonna wrap it up a little bit in a minute, but I've talked all about what we've done to facilitate, you know, our ADPs to be able to adapt to not being able to leave their house in certain circumstances. And I think two years ago, we wouldn't have even dreamed that that would happen. But it's not just how we deliver our courses that's changed. You know, there's four elements here, marketing exam processing, breadth Brexit in our travel, but have all been impacted and continue to to impact what we're doing. With marketing, it's really allowed us to experiment with new, activities. So doing a lot more webinar and series reaching our providers and our students in different ways. So we've not been able to physically go see you people in person, like, we used to do a lot of, you know, trade fair events, provine, VenITally, etcetera, but obviously with lots of cancellations and lots out with travel. We've been unable to do those. So we've definitely had to move, to the more digital side of things. And last year, we ran our first digital graduation for our diploma students. So we did a local events for our key key markets. So in in the Americas in APAC and in, Europe, Middle East, African, India as well. So we try to reach students in other ways. Our exams processing, obviously, has been really hard hit. You know, with restrictions that we had at the beginning of lockdown, we weren't able to go to the officer tool. And our exams processing is, is quite manual process. Obviously, we have physical papers that need to be looked at scanned and and mobbed by human beings, and so that definitely created its issues. We are still today under restrictions, in our HQ, So we work in bubbles still to make sure that our our exams team are able to be, you're continually working. So there's no blips. There's no time where there's infection COVID infection or anything like that. So it's a really safe working environment for them, which is great, but it also does protect against, our services being interfered with because of of COVID. And there's a lot more remote working going on, not just in exams, but across the whole business. And again, that has its benefits. We've all probably enjoyed being at home. I am currently sitting surrounded by boxes because I'm moving house today, so It's a bit chaotic, but it just proves that actually we can continue to work, we can continue to do, and I think that's exactly what we've we've done. Brexit, I'm not gonna go into detail. That is not what this is for, but we have to understand that the combination of Brexit anchor. It has caused, all sorts of issues with couriers sending, duty restrictions, etcetera, for our providers, particularly also across Europe, which, you know, alongside the pandemic, we've added Brexit to the mix. So it's been a really difficult time, for our providers and students. And I think that really leads me on to saying that even though WSTT have been able to introduce some of these new elements, and we will continue to refine them they would not be successful without the sheer, hard work and determination of all of our APPs, all of our educators, and all of our students for being willing to accept these changes WSTT is very traditional, but we've really had to kind of break out of that mold, and it's been amazing. You know, there there are definitely positives that have come from this, and our our APPs have embraced it They have been incredibly patient, incredibly hardworking, and all of the thanks for kind of us continuing education throughout the pandemic rests on them a hundred percent, without, you know, the those three examples. We really wouldn't have been able to serve students, throughout the lockdown. So my big thanks definitely go to all of our providers out there who have made our decision making kind of come to life So that's the end of my presentation. So I think, I'm not sure if there were any questions, but thank you very much for listening. And again, a big thank you to our ADPs and our educators who have worked so hard on getting to this point. We will definitely be in touch with them with them soon, asking them questions about how we develop all of these options further, how we introduce upgrades to them and how we can improve going forward. So there's There's plenty of exciting opportunities ahead. I I believe for WSTT and for for students, studying our courses. So I think there is a question. I'm just having a quick look on the chat here. So is it more expensive for students and ADPs to do remote courses, as samples have to be shipped and sourced? I think that's a really good question. And actually, I don't think there's a very good answer to it. It really does depend because we work across seventy markets. And in some of those markets, sample sourcing is incredibly expensive anyway. So, actually, when we've seen the samples going to miniatures are being sent out, there's not a huge change in the overall course cost because APPs would ordinarily probably be paying for facilities, to, you know, classroom facilities, but they won't need to if everyone's studying at home. So it kind of was balanced out. I think in some cases, those additional samples have become optional, for students to to purchase. So the the APP is responsible for giving the minimum requirements, but then would then offer an additional list if people want to do more tasting in their own time. So I I think it really varies from market to market. But certainly students would always make sure that they're getting the samples that are, listed. The APP should all be advertising what kind of samples that students will be able to taste. So definitely keep an eye out for for that. I'll just see if there's any other questions. I don't think there there is. I'll just wait one more second. And if not, I will come to a close. Okay. It doesn't look like there are any more questions there at all. So finishing a little bit ahead of time, but, if anyone does have any questions or want to ask any questions, then, don't hesitate to drop me a message on LinkedIn or on the platform, or on email as well. My email address is available on the WSTT website. So please do let me know. If you've got any questions, I'll be more than delighted to help. And thank you very much for your time today, and hopefully see you in person soon. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud Apple Podcast spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.