Ep. 836 Commerce In The U.S. Market New Post - COVID Tools | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

Talian Wine Podcast, a wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner is proud to present a series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Alright. All set. So I'm just gonna introduce you to Benjamino Garolfalo. He is the he's the big honcho for Santa Margarita Group. So that's it. Okay. Let's start. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this meeting that will allow us to analyze one of fundamentals aspects of the post pandemic, one trade. It's the most important market in the world for our sector. The United States, we have been making business through to difficulties, very difficult years, which have, however, brought us many lessons, and which have opened up incredible opportunities by definitely projecting the world of wine into the digital. We have learned a lot of things. For example, no more no more trends to simply write. We need to have an approach proactive in terms of attitude, and don't wait in our comfort zone in order to define what to do. We have learned that solution previously considered difficult can become the norm. And the market, we learned as incredible ability to change, to adapt to the worst situation. The companies must be able to read the distress formations in real time and grasp them. We have learned that pandemic is really difficult to foresee during this kind of period can become the norm, and it's very important to be a big, a strong companies, but not only. We need to transform the obstacle in opportunities. This means we had to become more agile, more able to face this kind of issues. This month, we have sort of being told that the market during the crisis bring us to to have a product to find products that the they satisfied it in the past. This means more product familiar with value, best less and capable of re assuring. Among of positive things, we can speak about e premise. He premise has been the tools that permit our consumer our wine lovers to stay close to our wine, to the brands. And, it's very important don't use e commerce only to sell wine, but to build to increase equity value, and a lot of value is very important for the brands without any cancellation about, our DNA. You know, the market is growing incredible growth in two thousand twenty as continuing two thousand twenty one. But the companies, as to invest in training, in, investment in digital, in people. Our companies has to increase our competencies in this market because the omni channel isn't only fantasy was a real story for us, and we have to to gain market share, to gain new consumer through restaurants, supermarkets, and e commerce too. There is a lot of attention to the evolution of this team a who better than Ciree, out of how to get US market ready. This is the book. A real rescue kit, twelve Italian companies to assess to US market. And Stevie is a host of a Italian one podcast how to get US market ready with Steve Ray in order to explain how to assess US market with e commerce, tools, the range of product to use in e commerce, and what kind of channel in US is better for our products. And then finally, I want to introduce Steve Ray. Welcome Steve in order to explain the e commerce in US. Thank you very much. Hello, everybody. My name is Steve Ray, but when I'm in Verona, everybody calls me Stevie Ray. And thanks to this Stevie and the entire team at Buena Digital and Verona Ferre, and he each eight for having me here. This is, I think, in the sixth or seventh year that I've spoken at wine to wine. Usually, I talk about access to the US market, but this year, we wanted to do something a little bit different. And so, we decided we're gonna talk about e commerce in the US new post COVID tools. That's the title I gave to Stevie when she said, what do you wanna talk about? This is the title of what we're gonna talk about. How to sell more of your products to more people in more places in the US. Very simply, that's what this is all about. I think a lot of times we all get bollixed up in the language and, you know, the words that we use about native digital lists and whatever, but at the end of the day, I'm reminded of one story. A friend of mine told me this. He said, he gets asked, all the time. What's the best bottle of wine? And his answer is the one I just sold. That's the business that we're in. So let's start with definitions though. Because there's a lot of con confusion between the term e commerce which is the umbrella that I'm talking about here. And what we also call DTC or D2C direct to consumer. And let me clarify that. We're not talking about business to business. That's that's why it's in gray. We're saying e commerce is the overarching umbrella that all of these things fit into. In the US, DTC commonly refers to winery domestic US wineries selling directly to consumers in the US. That's the only time the three tier system does not apply. It's the only way anybody can sell or that is permitted for someone to sell direct to the consumer. For export brands, it has to go through an importer, has to go through a distributor, But as Americans, we like to say, you know, we don't break the law, but we sure do like to bend the rules. And that one is under a lot of pressure. But for today, suffice to say we're talking about e commerce. And the idea there is it's to refer to any entity or third party selling or facilitating a sale from a retailer to a consumer. So just for clarity's sake. And the way I like to think about it is the channels have dramatically changed. And some of it's due to COVID, but I think a lot of it is done to just general evolution in in our culture. The significance of cell phones, the internet, and so forth. So we're all familiar with, you know, there's the on premise. You guys call it Horeca here. There's the off premise. We call retail stores. And then as Benjamin said, there's e premise. That means that the the commerce sometimes happens on the phone or the computer. But oftentimes, the phone plays a role in the journey of exploration and discovery that the consumer goes on. They're no longer just walking into a retail store, whether it's a supermarket or whatever. And buying. So he he promised he promised really has two different, concepts. And this is what's really been accelerated by COVID. We used to say at home. People would buy off premise and then bring it home and have it with dinner. With their family. But now there's this thing called at a home, meaning that people are gathering not on premise. They may be getting restaurant meals delivered, but it's the equivalent of BYL bring your own. At home. And so it's it's opened up tremendous opportunities for people to buy different products, that are more diverse than what they may be able to see at an individual restaurant. So it's all about making your product stand out in in a digital world. And the easiest way I can think about it is we all think of when we're marketing things, a floor display with a case card, inner shelf talker, a fully dressed display, the equivalent is an optimized page on the website. So when someone's looking, whether they're on Vivino, whether they're on, mini bar delivery or drizzly or wine searcher or the branch page or anywhere on the web, you wanna make sure that your brand is presented in its best form, but we would call fully dressed explanation what it is, what it tastes like critic scores and so on and so forth. When I think about it, I think this is the only way that small brands can compete on even playing field with the big boys, and they're the big boys. It allows you to take control of your brand how the brand is sold to consumers and certainly presented to consumers and how to manage and control that channel or platform. So in web speak, we talk about, develop a digital marketing strategy, which focuses on metrics. And all that really means is measure what you're doing. If it works, keep doing it and optimize it, improve it. And if it doesn't work, stop doing it. The problem was in the in the industry, we wouldn't know until a month and a half, two months later when we get depletion reports from a distributor, how well a given program is going. With some of the programs I'm gonna talk about today, you know in real time and can watch it and manage it on your computer. A little frightening. There's a lot of responsibility. You have to have the right person doing it, but at the end of the day, it enables you to increase by orders of magnitude, the impact of your advertising. You know, there's an old, I'd lectured a couple of colleges and, baloney, actually. One of the things with all those things in the advertising business is I know only half my advertising works I just don't know which half. That's no longer the case now because you can see in real time what's going on. And in many cases, it's tied directly to the individual retailers' physical inventory in the store in real time, which is amazing. I mean, we're bringing the beverage alcohol industry kicking and screaming into the nineteen sixties. And and I, for one, I'm proud of that. That was one of my jokes, fell flat. Okay. But you have to do it within the confines of the three tier system, but adopted for today's digital world. And and here's kind of a shortcut on how to do it. Your brand is already visible on e commerce or sites that are a precursor to someone buying your brand online. And there's seven that I think are critically important that I want you to focus on. They're listed there. Wine searcher vivino drizzly city hive dot net, vine pair, pix dot wine seven fifty dot com. And does felicity in the audience? Felicity Carter, who's the editor of picks dot wine is here. You should try and seek her out. She's wearing a red jacket. What happens is most e commerce websites, whether it's an individual retailer or anything other than these four are scraping content by bots that go out and and find content online. Okay? So probably your listing doesn't look like the way you want it to look like. I'm saying that if you go and optimize how your brand looks on these six, You will have optimized how your brand looks on eighty percent of all the other stuff that's going on on out there, whether it's wine information sites, any of these things. So, alright, this is the busy slide. I apologize for it. There's a lot of confusion out there. And what I've tried to do here is to break out. This is the old version. I apologize for it. Into six. Actually, I've simplified it to five individual categories of how e com works. In many cases, the two critical things that factor in is how is it paid for? Is it a commission? Is it some sort of an ad? How is the money flowing? Will determine not the legitimacy, but the practicality of that tool for you. I don't have time today to go into all of these things. It would take another couple of hours to explain them, but the fundamental difference in my mind is who owns the data. We'll talk about that in a moment. The point I wanted to make alluded to earlier is what can I do? This is a question I get all the time. What can I do right now without you, Steve, giving me a lecture for an hour and a half on how the internet works to help me sell more of my product in more places to more people online? And this is how to do it. One, audit your present. Go go to each of these sites. Seven of them. I know. It's a challenge. Go to each of those seven and look at them. Do they have a current label image? Is it high resolution? Do they have a a a current bottle picture? Is it on a white background? And is the aspect ratio correct, or did it get squished so it's not even recognizable again? You'll all be able to get copies of, the presentation. So what you want is to put together a suite of assets that are available to anybody and everybody on your website, on your social media pages, then anybody can download to make it easy for the bots and also for people. So, picture of the full bottle on a white background, a picture of the label, both flat, as well as close-up of it curved on a bottle because a lot of sites use that. You want your brand and the the label of the individual SKU in both black and white and color and ideally in a couple of different aspect ratios, vertical horizontal square. Because if somebody or some automaton is gonna be fitting your stuff in there and you wanna make sure that you look good. Scores and awards absolutely critical. It's the one thing that everybody in America looks to. It's the kind of the great arbiter of, is this a good wine or not? Price helps? Scores really matter. Then also critics reviews, and then also it's an opportunity to tell your brand story. I like to think about it this way. When I watch people in this store and they pick up a bottle, they look at the label, and everybody in America tells me, Steve, you're wrong. People turn it around and look on the back because they're looking for more information than just the name. Where is it made? Is it organic? They want that information. That's what the web is for. That's what your camera is for, and that's why label recognition matters. So What you can do is you build this library, if you will, and then you reach out to each of these sites as simple as reaching out to contact us. And if they don't respond to them, pick up the phone and call them. Hain, Hainay, is it Hainay as both Hainay? Hainay, if you're really good, might give you his cell phone, and you can call him, and he'll have his people put it up. But the point is they want this updated content because they want to present your brand in its optimized format. Okay. So what happens when you do it wrong. And this is an example, and I I tried to pick one from a winery. I did not think was going to be here. So I I pick one from Pollia and Primativo, and I hope nobody from, Marrella Lawson, you're, is here. And what what I don't see here is I don't see a score. I don't see a critic review. I see a crappy picture of the bottle in the bottom left hand corner. The label's okay. They got that. And they have a description there red, rich, and intense. I know it's it's hard to see, but so okay. But is that the way you want your brand presented? That's the equivalent of one bottle on a shelf full of dust in a dark corner of a store. Right? It's never gonna sell. Here's an optimized brand, and I did not set this up. I went out and I looked at Santa Margarita knowing as big as they are and as as successful in in, as they are that they probably are gonna have it right. And let me just kinda highlight a couple of things that matter there. I know it's hard to read, but there is the average price, twenty four dollars per seven fifty. You may not like that number, but it's gonna be on wine searcher. Okay? Critic score eighty five out of one hundred. I was absolutely flabbergasted at that. I figured your scores were gonna be better. It's an issue. Something you can work on. White, green, and flinty. Four, what? Four stars, And then as you go further, I had another slide. I won't go into it showing more the depths below the fold of what they have about this brand. Wineemakers know it's the story of the winery, the history of pinot grigio, it's all there to be found. And when you think about it, consumers are on a journey of discovery. Oh, this is kind of interesting. I heard about Santa Margarita tell me more. Tell me more. They want a couple of factoids so that when they're sitting at dinner, say, did you know this was a fact that they can say? How do you turn that into e commerce, which is the subject of this whole presentation, and we're doing okay? There's a new tool in the US called Gopuff. Just got half a billion dollars worth of funding. They're gonna try and out Amazon, Amazon. And the concept is micro warehouses in a gazillion different places with delivery in a half an hour. But the key point is they're selling ads on their site. In an ad auction medium. I I I don't wanna go into detail here. You can look it up ad auction method. But basically, what it says is when you type in, I think I put in here Someo block, you see eight bottles of sauvignon block. There's eight thousand bottles of sauvignon block that they can sell. The only ones that the consumer sees are these eight, and the the one in the top left corner is usually the best selling one. This is I kinda made up the picture. Usually, it would be like, White Haven, which is gallows. But if you look at, that is a brand I'm working on. It's called In vivo X S JP. It's a celebrity brand from New Zealand, but we paid for that to be here. So for every bottle we sold the day before, we sold a thousand the day that we had the ad running. Two dollars and fifty cents, I think, was about what we bid for that kind of a placement, but it made a huge difference, and we only paid when a sale was converted. It's logical. Right? And make makes a lot of sense. You two can do that. It's not all that complicated. And what can you do next? I kinda lump it all into the concept of frictionless e commerce or noiseless e commerce so that a consumer goes to a page, and this is Sarah Jessica Parker, as you can see. Kinda looks like maybe it's her site or a brand site or something, whatever, but it's not really offensive. But basically what it says is click here and buy. And what this system does is it feeds back through a couple of different ways to a retailer site who happens to have the product in stock near where the person is actually physically or where their phone physically resides at that moment in time. And in two clicks, they can buy the the product. And it's real simple. They don't really wanna know, well, like, go here, go here, do that, register for this, download this. They just I I want the product. So that's an example of a white label program, which was just one of the six columns I mentioned. You really need to figure out which is the right one for you. It's very difficult. I admit it for you to do on your own. You really need somebody who's familiar with this stuff and ideally in the US who's working with this on a regular basis. And one of my recommendations is don't necessarily go to your PR agency. Although, they may be able to do that. I think, my eyes are not real great. I think Joanna is here from Calangelo. They can help you do this kind of stuff. But people who are more familiar with e commerce than they are with wine. It's less about the wine than it is about getting an optimized picture of the wine presented to the right person at the precise moment in time when they're interested in buying the product. So we kind of bring this to a close, key takeaways. What's going on here? Okay. Number one, the way Americans shop for and consume wine has changed. It's now the buzzword is omni channel. You may buy at a liquor store, but you're gonna look for the product online. You may see the product in a liquor store and look it up online. Somebody sent you, posted something in social media with a page from wine search about e, you ought to check out this wine. We're going all over the place. It's no longer just walking into a store. Number two. Wineries and producers must take control of and take responsibility for marketing their products. This is not a case where you can leave it to your importer to do this. They do not have the expertise They do not have the wherewithal. They do not have the people. It's an opportunity for the brands to take take a leadership role demonstrate to the importers and the distributors what they can do. And all of a sudden, you'll be getting calls from your employer and your share distributor saying, hey, what's going on? All of a sudden, again, all these orders, and the brand is selling is all all hot. Then all you have to say is, yeah, we're promoting it. That's what they wanna know. E commerce is the in my opinion, the only way a small niche craft or however you wanna describe it, new brand is going to make it in the US market going forward. Sure. If you're, Santa Margarita, you know, you've got big floor displays and all that, but they've got twenty, twenty five years of investing to get more forty years. I only heard about it twenty five years ago. But if you're gonna compete, you can do this. It's affordable, and it allows you to compete on a level playing field without being at at, the mercy of the big guys being able to spend money. If you can spend money smarter, you don't have to spend a lot of money. And then, lastly, you must establish and optimize your presence on each of the seven major e commerce sites and that will filter out through the rest of the web because everybody else scrapes that content. And then lastly, these new tools provide a wealth of data that can be used, as I said in the beginning, to sell more wine, to more people in more places, and that's what we're all here for. So that's my presentation. Thank you very much on the short side. We're gonna take some questions in a moment, but, thank you very much. Thank you. Okay. If you don't ask the questions, I'm gonna call on people. I mean, you probably don't want that to happen. So if you've been thinking about something, ask the question. There's a question online, which is what is from Joseph Tim Kovsky? I thought he was here, but he isn't. What is the role of personalization in wine e commerce in the US market? What is the role of taste personalization, two folds? I don't think I understand the question. Do you? No. But you're the speaker. I'm just the organizer of an event. My name's Stevie too. No big stuff. Well, let's Oh, it is the role of personalization in wine e commerce in I I think I maybe have an idea of what they're saying is what, you know, is it important to personalize the communication that is coming from the phone to the person that says, hey, Bill or Hey, Stevie, this is directly for you. I don't think that's necessary. I think that's what the the English idiom is gilding the lily. I think you're trying to do too much, and it borders on the idea of stalking. You know, how many times have you somebody mentioned this to me last night. They were talking about Croatia. Right? And the next thing, you know, all of a sudden vacations to Croatia comes popping up on their cell phone. How did that happen? You know, okay, big brother stop following us, but I don't know, that kind of stuff. So I don't know that it's personalization so much as it is the algorithms that are showing you the content that do a better job are going to be the places you're going to go back to, and that's why Google is worth a hundred billion dollars right now because they figured out a way to do it. I mean, I'm not Joseph, so I'm not really I can't read his mind, but I think what he means is, but let me try. I think what he means is is it different to, Let's say present the wine on e commerce as versus just the traditional channels. I think that's when he means by traditional. I totally understand the question, but I try to answer. Okay. You try. It's true. Is different or is better. You have to try to present your product in different manner. Steve, before presented a same, an example how to present your product. It's very important to present your storytelling. Sometimes in the restaurant in Norica, it's very difficult to explain to consumer directly. Our storytelling, our value, our DNA, in e commerce, you can sort out a lot of things for your brand. Depends on your present, the wine directly to consumer. This means is very important to have in terms of graphic, in terms of edit, in terms of a presentation, overall, very clear, with bullet point in order to present, your product, you can speak about sustainability, the region, the heritage of the product, and sometimes in the restaurants. In a bar, this is impossible. I think this is the answer. Yeah. So I don't know. It's a good answer. I tried one. If you don't know where you're going to go. How are you going to know when you get there? Okay. How about one from the audience? Yeah. I have a question. So regarding to the seven website you mentioned, so what's the ranking of the website? Is there the visitors or, like, all the impacts of the website? The selling website. I picked them. That's all. It's not quantitative. It's just that they are the ones that are important. And one of them that's on the list, picks dot wine is relatively new to the world. Paul Mcbray who speaks here every year is kind of behind that. I think that's gonna be significant, which is why I put it on the list. I I think just I I can look at stuff online and sometimes tell where it came from and where it got scraped. So those are the ones that I pay attention to, and those are the sites that I go to. And I figure if I'm going to them, that's what everybody else is gonna be trying to pick from too. It's not it's not an, you know, a rigorously quantitative answer, but that's Alec, Alec, Alec came to be. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. We know that the consumer drives the bus, but for those of us who are stuck with a retail shop or a restaurant as the gateway to the consumer is, how can we use e commerce to get those eyeballs to be interested in producers. Wow. And we yeah. Yeah. We would need more time to do that. I think the answer is to figure out who you're currently talking to. And enter the brand into that conversation. The simple way I like to think about it, instead of getting people to come to you, go where they are already gathered. And you can do that with all kinds of search terms and ads on Google and that kind of stuff. But to start with, you have if you're a restaurant or or a retail store, you have a database of customers. You can you have their email address. You're probably sending out weekly mailings about what the specials are and so forth or, you know, whatever the seasonal items are. You can talk speak directly with your customer base. And then the challenge is you wanna get them to tell your story in their words to their friends. At the end of the day, you don't want this is a personalization thing. You don't want some something that a copywriter in New York wrote. What you want them to do is This was really great wine. It was the best lamb I ever had and the wine made it spectacular, and you want them to put that on their social media site. And in your case, it would be tagging with, you know, a hashtag of the restaurant name or you know, whatever was relevant there. It's not so I'm not gonna have it all the time. It'll happen once, and then it will and then all of a sudden you start getting Google dues and all of a sudden you start being featured in the conversations and you end up being visible. That answer your question? It's not easy, but you gotta kinda pay attention and watch what's going on. Somebody made the point, earlier about use oh, Amy, about using Google analytics. It's a free tool we all have. If you've got a website or a restaurant or a retail store does, there's a wealth of data in Google analytics to tell you a lot about how your customers are behaving, where they're coming from, where they came from, to come to your site where they went to after your site, and what they purchased. So I would suggest that you work with somebody who understands Google Analytics and can go in there. And I guarantee you're gonna find a bunch of information say, hey, I didn't know that. Actually, let me give you one example if I can go on. There was one, one retailer we know who was looking at his data, and he found he had one customer who had bought fifty five times from his store, averaged thirty five dollars for each purchase and spent in the last year two thousand dollars. The guy had never walked into the store. Okay? But it turns out he's the influencer in that particular area for bourbons and RISE and what's new and what's hip and what's cool. This door happened to have all that stuff under the the counter for special customers. Found out this guy was a special customer. Now he's cultivating that person, not just as an influencer, but an influencer to people who shop at his store. Pretty impressive. That's one way to do it. If there any, additional questions. I would like to ask you, Steve. If you can, explain a little bit better about that slide. I don't know if you can pull it up sorting the e commerce option slide. Yeah. I thought that was gonna be a problem. Yeah. That is a you just kind of, like, glide over that, but I think that'd be half an hour. Okay. Well, I think now that there aren't any questions, I will give you a few minutes. If you can explain that. I think that's kind of a key slide that I would like for you to explain a little bit better. Before that? Yep. I'm going back. That one right there. Don't move. Okay. So just kinda pick, at, like, I I showed you the example of white label. And, basically, what that means is there's all this stuff happening below. We're behind the green curtain, but you don't need to know how that works. To the consumer, there's no noise. And some of those, there's a couple there. First three are spirits oriented ones. Mash and grape is another wine one. Reserve bar is another one, which does both white label. How to describe that? That's what white label is. FDM, what we call, food, drug, mass merchants, Instacart is a startup that's probably valued at a billion dollars where most of these supermarkets are using, and it delivers to the consumer. There are ways of doing programs with Instacart, much like I showed you for Gopuff, where you can be the Samuel Blanc that gets shown amongst the seven thousand that they may carry. Pure play e commerce. So wine dot com basically wrote the book on this. They only exist online. There is no physical store. The same thing is true of, VIN Porter, which we use, for some of our brands when we don't have distribution in a particular state, we can still send the product through VIN Porter to somebody even in a state like Pennsylvania where it's pretty much illegal to ship directly to the state. But you can do it. I won't say it's legal, but it's acceptable and people do it all the time. But all of that happens only online with these things. Flash cell sites are another example. Talk about analysis, tech, and route to market solution, and that's what I was talking about, pics on there. But also, for those of you who are saying, well, I don't have an importer. How am I supposed to sell in the US. There's a lot of people thinking about these things, and one of them is called Libdib, l I b d I b. And, basically, the short version, it's the answer for a small producer to be able to tick off the box of do you have an importer? Yes. Are you for sale through somebody that has a distribution license so that an individual retail store can buy it so that it could be sold to a customer? Yes. Consumers don't need to know any of that stuff other than to say, Here's a brand. I can buy it, and the system sorts for whether or not you can buy it or not. Third party facilitator, when I was talking about the ownership of of the data, this is kind of a mission critical thing. Retailers in America are hanging by their fingernails trying to stay in business. They're getting the competition from Costco and from total wine, which has twenty five hundred individual stores. How can they compete? Well, one of the ways that they compete, one of the ways that they can compete is by getting business that wouldn't necessarily come to their store. Maybe their trading area is only two blocks in New York City, but if they can get businesses coming from the upper east side and they're on the upper west side, that comes through drizzly. So it opens the door for retailers to do more. The problem is in any of these guys, they own the data. As opposed to the retailer owning the data. And that's what City Hyve is. It's the one right here. I don't know if you can see that. These first three, Gary's, ABC, and Bedmax, are three individual retailers in the United States. Seven stores, five stores, four stores, something like that. They're doing gangbusters. And a lot of what they're doing is through the equivalent of private label. Meaning, it's exclusively available to them, but because they're doing such a great job of marketing it, your basically brand is on sale in front of a whole bunch of people. Put it to you in a number, K and L liquors, which is a little wine shop with three stores in California, two in the north, one in the south, has a mailing list of ninety thousand customers who live and die by the recommendations of the guy who writes the newsletter for wine and the guy who writes the newsletter for spirits. You can sell all that you want just through K and L and K and L will be very happy to be the only one in America where they can find this gem of a wine that they discovered. So it's private label, but not the way you would think about private label, meaning low cost something that's next to the brand label. Everybody's trying to find what's the next new thing, what's unique, what can't you get anywhere else? Well, it's one of the systems to do it. So it's just the simplest I can do otherwise, I need three hours. Okay. Are there any additional questions? I think. Okay. One of the last. Is is the lady still here? Yeah. Hello. My name is Osa Jowanza. And thank you for this presentation. Really interesting. I just have a quick question. Is there a certain price point that sells better in the States online? Yeah. Good question. Here's some numbers. The average price for a bottle of wine in the United States according to Nielsen data is about ten dollars. The average price of a bottle of wine that sells sells through wine dot com and many of these others is thirty eight dollars. Another reason why e commerce makes a whole lot of sense if you don't wanna fight the margin game. So, yeah, really good question. I think that confirms what, Heidi said, this morning, although his his threshold was a bit lower. I don't think it was thirty eight. I think it was more like above fifteen or something. Anyway, so I I can't remember. Okay. That's it. I'm going to close-up the room. Let's give it up for Steve Ray. And, Benjamin, you know, I this, for me, it's huge. This slide right here. I'm not sure if everyone understood that, but this is something you need to go home and try to decipher, and it may take some time, like, see rates there. Okay. Thank you very much, and see you in fifteen minutes. I will need to, of course, sanitize the room as usual. So get out. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time. Chichi. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.