Ep. 845 Wine Clubs On Clubhouse | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong Russia, New York, and Verona. Think you make the cut. Apply now at vin Italy international dot com. Italian wine podcast. A wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner is proud to present A series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm Central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Alright, everybody. We are going to get started for our wine clubs and clubhouse presentation. Thank you to everyone that has come for today. Both Matthew and I really, really appreciate it. And we hope to give you guys a really fun conversation about social media and clubhouse in the wine sphere. And, also thank you to wine to wine, and Stevie from inviting both of us. So let's kick it off. We're gonna be talking about Clubhouse today. I'm gonna inter introduce ourselves a little bit. My name is Renee Feraza. I go buy wine by Renee online. I'm a certified Samuel. And I work on the wine communicator side of the wine industry, everything from being an on TV wine specialist to, social media coordinator, and also doing in person and hosted events. On Clubhouse. I have really started to use the way that I look at it as a business platform for people to learn more about wine and be in more wine conversations. But we'll be diving into that a bit more today. Get Matthew to introduce himself first. Hello, Matthew Horky, but this this topic is actually quite near and dear my to my heart because, I think I can say with with a high degree of high degree of confidence, clubhouse saved my life. And let me explain why, you know, in in two thousand fifteen, I left to travel around the world, and that's how I ended up in the wine business with my girlfriend at the time, long time girlfriend at the time. Pandemic was tough on. All of us just myself included. Around two thousand twenty, we'd been together about seven, eight years. We split. And around that time, that's when I found Clubhouse, and it it was kind of in a dark place at that time. I was in a you know, we had just separated. We've been traveling together, living together for six years. I was in this tiny apartment in Zagreb. I have a US passport, so I couldn't travel really. Was just kinda stuck in this tiny apartment. Everything was locked down. Really wasn't seeing anybody. And then somehow somebody, Paul, our good friend, Bobby, introduced me to clubhouse, and I was just addicted right away. I think it just really, really gave me that that social interaction that I needed in that time when I didn't have any. So that's why I am super super excited to share some of my experiences and how I think that everybody can use the platform. For sure. So you're gonna talk about what actually a clubhouse is. Yeah. So I the the I should probably actually turn on my microphone. Yeah. So the, the fun thing about clubhouse, like Matthew was saying, is that it really is an interesting app because you can make a lot of connections to it, lots of interpersonal connections. In terms of thinking about what clubhouse is, think of it like a podcast meets a conference or Zoom call where you can actually participate in a conversation that's being had. So there's three things, essentially, that I summarize clubhouse with, which is participate, listen, and collaborate. This, as you can see, in front of you, is actually a full screenshot of what the app looks like and the three different pages that it is. In the center, you can see conversations that are already going on that you might be interested in finding off to the side where on the left hand side, I think it's left, yep, left hand side for you guys too. Are people that you are following or your friends on the app and what they are doing. And then on the other side, you have on the right hand side you have an explore page where you can search conversations based on the title itself or with emojis, to find out new things that you might want to listen to. And as you can see, it already does some suggestions on there. How how many people are on clubhouse here, by the way? I know, how many people here let's see. How many people are producers here, or is it a couple of producers. Okay. We got some good stuff for you. And then have you got wine writers, communicators, how many? Alright. Dis distribution? Okay. Actually, there's something for everybody. So, you know, before we move on, I I think this is how I simplify. Clubhouse is really like a, like, what's happening here in a virtual space. It's almost it's almost literally like having, a couple of speakers. If I had some of you come up on stage, you could be speakers too. We could all talk to each other, and then you have the audience, which which basically you are right now. It's just that in a virtual space, basically. Yeah. So that's how you can think about it. So, and then having those three aspects of participating in conversation, or you can be listening to a conversation, and you can actually make collaborative efforts with people as you meet them within the space. We wanna also share a little bit more about our personal experiences on the app. This app has a really low barrier to entry. You do not have to make any pictures. You do not have to make any videos. You don't have to post anything. You don't have to do anything at all other than show up and talk. But the one thing that you do get to create is your profile page. I have both a snapshot of Matthews and Eyes up here. And this is everything that's kinda like your digital resume. It tells people exactly who you are on the app. And how they can interact with you as well. And it'll also tell people where you are, how to communicate with you and all that kind of stuff. But in terms of how you write this, it also show can help you gain different experiences in people that you might interact with. So for myself, for example, I use social media as a business, as a business person as an entrepreneur. I it looks like I use it very much as a personal page, and that's the point. I want to be very authentic as possible to people, and my life is literally I love work. I love working. So that's a that's the thing I love to do. And showcasing that on here is really fun because I get to interact with people that are speaking in different parts of the world in this way that communicates with them as a business person. Matthew, I know you've had a different experiences on there. Yeah. You took it more from the start. You were just doing it as business. Right? I I still do social media business. So me too as well. And I guess my main shtick, so to speak, is YouTube. But I got in clubhouse really, obviously, for the social aspect, and the ability to meet people that some line raters that I've been reading about for years, different IG personalities. Like Renee, I've been following for years. I finally get a chance to interact with them, and then eventually branched out into some other industries too, which I thought was really, really cool. So that's that's actually why I got on club ops. And your experience is what you make of it. I met Matthew on Clubhouse. We both had met Stevie on Clubhouse, and now we're here. So we'll go through how these processes can work, but these are things that really do translate into real world experiences. So, we have something that's really interesting about that. Yeah. Why why why do you think, I mean, a lot of people, a lot of producers, especially, like, oh, I don't wanna get on clubhouse. I don't wanna get on another piece of social media, but why is this truly a social kind of social media? Yeah. So when you're thinking about social media overall, every single app has its own thing that you have to do to make sure that you're making the best impression for your audience on it. For Instagram, it's really about having a great picture and having a caption tag line. For YouTube, you have to have one of those almost salacious looking, cover photos to the video and a title that will make people click on it. For Twitter. You have those really just about a hundred and forty characters to make you're worthwhile. But on Clubhouse, this is really about your own personal delivery of your voice using timing, tone, intention, and connection. So you don't really have the same barrier to entry. You don't have to think about it in a way other than presenting yourself. And if you are a good speaker, that will come through. It really does kind of level the playing field. Yeah. I I instantly do what I think what's so special is just in hearing the inflection and somebody's voice, their tone, you can really pick up on their personality. For instance, when I would meet people on clubhouse, I would know instantly if I wanna interact with that person or not, if I would want to in a real life situation. Yeah. So if we go through each and every single one, timing's a big thing. So you're talking to a bunch of people, and you know, if you ever been to a party before, and that's that one person that keeps interrupting you while you're talking, and you hate them by the end of the night, like, they suck. So that's something you would probably not be doing and really watching how you're letting other people say their piece. That shows that you're being really respectful of everyone's time. Tone. We change the tones of our voices a lot. So if you're really happy about something, you can lift something up If you wanna be serious, you can pull your voice down, and you can make a lot of personal connections just by doing these things that we do in our speech every single day. Intention is shown through that very easily, and you can also make connections that can translate into the real world by having those authentic experiences. When you think about how this works so well, we have this multigenerational app where you have people on it that are either, kind of like early boomers, on the later end of the boomer era, and then you also have gen xers and elder millennials that are so used to having maybe a childhood or a full life where they're talking on the phone a lot, but it kind of gives that connection. And then when we move into younger generations like gen z and also in the millennial group, there's a lot of conversations happening on here that they can resonate with and speak to people in a way that feels like they're one on one. So now we know a little bit about what it is. So how do you join the conversations? I don't know if there's maybe half fifty fifty here, people that are using clubhouse and then fifty that are not. How do you actually find the conversations? Yeah. So you can download clubhouse as an app and get started with it. It used to be invite only. Now you can just download it, which is really, really great. Because, as Matthew was invited by his friend Fabian, I was invited by a friend of mine as well. And at the time, it was so exclusive that you had to really find your way in. Once you're on the app, you make yourself a bio, and but the most important thing that you should do is start creating and finding conversations. Maybe you don't create your first conversation right away. Maybe you look around a little bit. And, that's that's why I wanna talk about how you can search and find things within the app. Most interesting about this app is that you can actually search with emojis. So if you see up on the screen behind me, the first, on the side, on the left hand side, the first image is actually the search bar. And as as you can see, I put a wine glass in there. And it's brought up all of these conversations that are happening that are based around wine using just that emoji to bring them up. Which other ones did you use? I've I've found the emoji search function to be awesome. It is. I'll use anything related to wine that I can or, like, if it's women in wine, I'll put, like, the girl or, like, the multiple girls' symbols and, wine or also champagne, sparkling, bottle pop, whatever. Whatever you're trying to bring across. And then how you would create a room. The next image that you see there is a creation of an actual room. When you're creating a conversation to make it stand out in this conversations page, when people are searching for it, you wanna use emojis. You wanna have a title that is actually reminiscent of what is happening. So you can see in this, example here, I wrote clubhouse and wine industry, and who is doing it with you. And then in the description, right, you can write out how how, what it's gonna be about and how long your conversation is. This kind of important because conversations on this app can last anywhere between thirty minutes and seventy two hours. So giving people a scope for how long you'll be talking for, lets them come in and out. And have a great time and see how we were talking about things and participate. And I think Parhard First Room went eight hours straight. We didn't have a time limit. So, basically, the a room is almost like this. It's almost like this creating this kind of topic, but conversations can develop, right, and go all over the place. Exactly. And as you move forward within the app, there are ways that you can actually track how well you're doing. This is how we start turning this into real world work. When you think about Instagram, there are analytics that you can pull. You can see your insights on YouTube. You can see your insights. Yeah. You can pull all these things from apps. I think a lot of, why Clubhouse is so new and we're trying to figure out how engaging is this for people and how you can get the most worth out of it. So there's about six different things that you would focus on. So the first one is listening time, and that's literally how long people are listening for. That's that's what is that? That's total time and then divided by the number of people in the conversation. Right? Yeah. So, your room can go on for maybe an hour, but maybe your average listening time is thirty five minutes. That means that people spent about thirty five minutes listening to you speak about something on average. They might have not stayed the entire time that you were talking. Then you also have speaker time, which is a little bit different speaking time, and that focuses on how much of the room overall was was done in speaking and how much, did people kind of come up and also speak? So you get to an actual minutes about that, and that's, like, the the overall look into Rome ran much more structured rooms than I did. So all this is I'm learning a ton. Go ahead. Then you have, like, accounts in the room. So the amount of people that are actually there the entire time that you have your room going on, So if it was for an hour and by the end of the hour, only twelve people are listening to you. This is actually an account of how many people were there. You might have had forty people in the room of a girl. Anyone that's in an Instagram live will know the feeling of seeing it drop down after and be like, two hundred people watch this, and then only twenty people were there the entire time. So it's kind of that feeling. The number of moderators, that that might not be clear for people that don't use clubhouse. Can you Yeah. Have you grown that? So this dives into the app a little bit more in how it's actually set up for you to create conversations. When you look at the app itself, you have essentially three different ways that people can interact with it as users of it. So you have your main moderator, which is the person that starts the room and schedules it, then you have essentially their co moderators. These are, like, managers in the room. Basically, for people that aren't using clubhouse, basically, we would be the moderators And then we could invite some of you up to also be speakers, and then we also have the audience too. That's just a a simple way to to play it. And moderators have the ability to, to kick people off the stage if people are being rowdy or and sensitive or all this other stuff. And the other thing about number of moderators, moderators in the room is that the more moderators you have up to a certain point, it kinda can be good or bad. It also tells their followers that you are talking with them and they can come to your room and see you do this at the same time. So it's good to have some moderators in there, and that brings up that number. We have number of speakers, which is just the number of people that have spoken, people from the audience that have come up, and the last one is room duration. How long did it actually last for? So these are the analytics that you would look at. I never used these when I was, because I was running casual rooms. Which one did you use, actually? Yeah. So there's three examples on the bottom of the slide of websites that you can use. Some are free, like, Clubhouse tools, x y z. And the other two are not, like, diarcon and club hub dot site. These are literal analytics that you can find, and they produce these types of graphs. This is what's really useful for people that are working in social media because this is what you can sell to clients that might want you to do something in this space as part of a campaign. If they don't have these types of analytics, how did it actually work, especially on a platform that has no posting. Oh, this is the fun part. Okay. The the the this is the meat that really the meat and, you know, meat and potatoes. I was gonna say meat and bones, meat and potatoes. Meet and potatoes. You don't have meat and bones, right? So This is probably the most interesting thing about Clubhouse is that it is a built in global networking app more than any other social media that's out there. And I try to represent this with this visual image. So You have me in Canada and Matthew in Croatia at the time and all the clubs that we're involved in, and then subsequent clubs that we are both involved in that connect people by participating in these conversations that are started by these clubs. You can connect with people on the other side of the world that you might have not otherwise connected with. And you can make these personal actual networking interactions that can translate to real world experiences and meeting people. I know for myself, I've gotten a lot of business working on, working on clubhouse and engaging in it and getting new clients. And Matthews actually had a really interesting time because he's meeting a lot of real life people. I legalized two and a half months since I was able to start traveling again. I've been actually meeting a lot of people in real life that actually met on clubhouse, and you already have such a different connection with with people. When you actually hear their voice, for goodness six, I went on a date, two weeks ago with a girl that I had met in a wine room on Clubhouse in Barcelona, all of all places. But it you instantly have this connection that just wouldn't exist, maybe, like, on on something like Instagram or Facebook. Right? When you're thinking about how this translates, think about it in this way. When you're looking at someone's image on Instagram or on Facebook or even their tweet or whatever it is, you are seeing that image through a filter that is your own eyes already, whether they put a filter on it or not. You're reading their text in your tone, you might have not be reading it the same way that they wanted it to exist. And that's what's really nice about this in terms of its authenticity for networking because it's as a person's words, they're coming out of their mouth. You can feel that human connection from it, and it's why it really does translate into real life work. I have twenty four point five thousand followers on Instagram, and a lot of people message me with weird messages that are actually supposed to be for business. Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm not talking to you. That's gross. And it might have been they just typed it wrong or something, but I don't know them. It doesn't sound as human. Why would I respond? But what the real real cool thing is there's, you know, clubhouse, there was a lot of hype early on because there's a lot of celebrities and a lot of influential people from different industries. And if you were popping in on every conversation they were having and trying to speak when when, when actually you could, you actually build a connection. These people start seeing you in these rooms. I know that, I we'll talk about it a little bit later. I've met some YouTube creators since I'm a YouTuber full time that I have would never have been able to meet in person next week or two weeks, I'm going to a YouTube, a food YouTuber house party where I'm gonna be introducing the line. Some of these YouTubers, two million subscribers, one and a half million subscribers. We're really, really big time stuff. And There's no other way that I wouldn't have been able to meet them. Otherwise, I know, you've learned of I mean, you've dove into some club us rooms and other social media platforms too. Right? Yeah. So, outside of networking, there's also as a collaborative all in one learning app which is really nice Matthew to touch on that with learning different social media platforms. There's three different categories here that we thought were great pinpoints for the wine industry specifically that you can learn about just by people creating rooms and creating conversations. So I noticed that you've been a lot of YouTube rooms. You've really upped your game a lot more, including your, the way that your cinematography is done from learning from people online that have helped you. Well, thanks. Welcome. I, myself, find LinkedIn very difficult to use. I do not know why. I just find it very confusing. And, I've been in a lot of LinkedIn rooms to try and optimize that a lot more. I've also been a moderator in rooms to help people assess their Instagram social media and how they can make the best possible impression. And that's just for learning and social media. People are putting out these this content that you can ask for real time responses back from experts that are doing well and something that you want to do well. Alright. Before you move on to wine education, I would give you just some some kind of practical stuff. I mean, these people are doing things for free. I was really involved in a cinematography room. There were a lot of Hollywood cinematographers there, and I actually posted a picture on a different social media platform so they could see about lighting. And instantly because it's real time. One guy came up. He said, you need to move your key light about ten degrees to the left and a little bit up. And it will give you the perfect it'll be give you the perfect shadow. And, I mean, this is this is kind of information you pay a ton of money from. It's free. It's their it's it's really incredible. And it also goes with my education as well. I run a club called the bottled up club, and, it would I was running the these rooms on every Saturday at eight PM. They've changed since people have gotten back into the openness of the world because Saturday at eight PM is the time restaurants are open, and that doesn't work for people. So but you have these wine education rooms where you can come in and learn about regions. People can ask questions and learn about this in a really dynamic way with a very low barrier to entry hearing from actual experts within the field sharing their knowledge without you paying anything for it. Now, is this going to make you a wine expert overnight? No. But it will help guide you in a good direction. And it also might be a great way for people to start finding mentors within the field because they get to talk to people and see how they work in wine. I know that I've gained two mentees from doing clubhouse rooms. Can you find for me? I don't know if you felt the same way. Some of the wine rooms had really it was really interesting, the diversity in terms of knowledge and skill level. People are not scared. Something that, you know, that we have to deal with in the industry. We haven't been that great at. Yeah. I I think it's really great because you can create a beginner room and you can create something that's a little bit more intensive. But you can also guide people into that with a topic overall. But I think that you touch on a really great point with the diversity that is that should be coming up within the wine industry, and it's something that we both list as online awareness. What's really great about this app is that you can have these conversations with people in a way that will look at the different diversity that's there. Now the wine industry has, what, for lack of better words, have done a very bad job at, creating a less homogenic environment overall. A big thing about that is talking with other people with different experiences and seeing how we can make better efforts to include more people in more wine conversations. There are lots of different conversations on clubhouse that actually have nothing to do with wine, but we're are filled with people and moderators that will spend the time talking about how to engage with more black indigenous people of color, LGBTQ, women's organizations, all this other stuff that you can learn about? Well, online awareness. You want I mean, it's helped your business a lot. Right? It has. So as a woman in wine, as someone part of the LGBTQ community and someone with learning disability, it's been very helpful pull to start connecting with people and also find, brands that want to work with more representation. I've know a lot of friends of mine that are working in equitable spaces. And one that are finding it really easy to connect with people on this way because they're you're not necessarily judged by the same thing that you would be. If I'm standing next to Janice Robinson and Jamie Good, pretty sure people would rather talk to Janice Robinson and Jamie Good. But if you can't see that person and you're talking to them online and I just sound more interesting, maybe people will also listen to me too. So it's a really easy playing field. Yeah. I I found it really powerful if you if something you wanna get into, be it maybe if you're in the wine media sphere, now Paul and I were running some rooms. We ran one with Jamie Good with some other people. And, I found it so interesting. You know, maybe some of the big names just didn't perform as well, maybe because they weren't able to articulate as well, or or or the tone of their voice wasn't perfect. And that's where I think this app is really powerful. Yeah. So Let's get to practical stuff. Let's get practical stuff. Yeah. This is the practical stuff as we wrap up our presentation here. So this is a virtual world with virtual experiences. How can you use this app to actually translate into meeting people, sales, and increasing your business? That's what we really wanted to end off with. So we got about eight different things here that you can do. The first one is creating exclusive experiences. I was yeah. I know. I will give an example. So, I was invited to an eight women business incubator dinner. That was a locked room on Club House where it was just women talking about their businesses and how we can help each other. We also all ordered our own food. And, they weren't in wine, so nobody brought wine except for me. And they thought it was really cool. But, this is a way that you can have these smaller, more engaged opportunities to talk to people. This is great for the exclusivity of maybe some clients that are living not near you that can have a specific thing. And you could send them wine, create these things. Where was my invite? You I I I told you it was a women's business thing. Barrier to entry. So the second is two fold wine events. That actually happened today. On the clubhouse today, I know that one of our audience members and myself were actually part of the clubhouse room that was going on at the same time. I was talking about more more, magnifying glass versions of what their own presentation was going to be on. So you can have two different slides to the event. One of it's just presented on clubhouse. That's showing something extra. The third is multi format seminars. This is essentially repeating the same information across multiple platforms and one of which being clubhouse. I think producers or anybody that's selling wine, this is incredibly powerful to actually do virtual tastings on clubhouse. Because you think about it. I don't wanna do zoom tastings. I hate you. You're kinda worried about what you look like. If the person's judging you, if you were paying attention or not, what they're doing. Call us, you know, it's tough to see. All you have to do is here. You can taste. It's incredibly powerful. Paul, and I actually did a room where he hosted Mattea Graviner. From, from Freley, Vinitzia, Julia. And she only promoted the region in Ruboligiala. She didn't talk anything about Gravnor. She just talked to she just talked about the region. She came across very authentic. I don't know if you remember that. And it's so funny. You have followers that were in the room that also follow my other social media accounts, especially YouTube. And somebody commented, you know, after that after that room, I went and bought two cases of wine, two cases of grabbing wine. I mean, that's really, really powerful stuff. Yeah. And you can have these, seminar formats where you can invite people in real life. You can open it up on Zoom. You can open it up on clubhouse, and your barrier to entry to actually talk to your customers this way is far lower. We shouldn't be expecting that everyone can come and buy a plane ticket to see us. Why should we make it so hard for them to like wine? We can also make it easier for them by doing tastings with wine personalities or bigger just generally celebrity or celebrity adjacent people on clubhouse. They do not have to get ready. They do not have to be on a Zoom. They could spend thirty to fifteen minutes coming on, and you can promote the heck out of it. And then they can come on. And that is massive. If anyone saw the Celebrity one conversation today, Celebrity does move bottles, and it does make conversations happen. I mean, we did we did a couple of them. Paul and I, for instance, with Heidi from Vivino, took an hour with with also the founder of Corvin Greg Lundbrake. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. Boom. They got done in forty five minutes. They got exposure, or we get exposure everybody wins. So it's it's really cool. It can happen just like that. And people are receptive to it because it's a it's a new platform, and there's there's a low barrier of entry. Exactly. The couple other things people could do is online classes. I love doing online classes. You can also get real time feedback from the students in the class, if they liked it, if they're happy with it, and you can change your class. I know, and I have fallen to this too. I know we all think in mind that we know a lot about the regions and a lot about what we're talking about. But sometimes we don't might not be putting it out there in the best way. We should be able to change how we are teaching things with actual feedback that people are giving us in real time. It makes us better. It makes you talk to your customers better. Then you can also do within that exclusive sales events. Having a conversation with people where anybody that's been coming to the conversation gets deemed a specific sales link to buy something from you. That's a good idea. Yeah. That's a good idea. I think I'm gonna think of that. Go ahead. Contests and giveaways. Remember, when they used to do contests on the radio, caller number nine, you can also do, a lot of trivia based in clubhouse for people that are paying attention and listening to what you're talking about. And give something to them as a reward. These types of contests and giveaways are great for wineries, and maybe somebody that wins might not tried your wine before, and now they like it. Fantastic. And the last thing is brand expansion The biggest thing in the wine industry that is not used enough is the ability to talk about what you are doing so other people can talk about it too. I think for wineries, this is incredibly powerful for a few producers that are in the room. Because people, you know, that's why people love to visit wineries. Right? They wanna meet the people behind the line to interact with the people. And just to hear somebody's voice, you already feel a hundred percent more connected to the brand. So I think this is something that producers could do basically at no cost except a little bit of time. Exactly. And it's if you're not talking about yourself and making the effort to be in a digital space, Like it or not, the world is becoming more digital. People will forget that you exist if you do not make yourself easy to find. There's more people nowadays making decisions on what to buy, especially new drinkers, as they come online. And if you're not easy to find, if you're not expanding your brand in the way that people are thinking about it, and this is a great way to do it, then you might be behind the times. Unfortunately, so. Okay. Now let's get to let's let's get to any questions. I know that's half of us are clubhouse users, half of us are not here, but, I think Paul, you had a question. We have a microphone coming for you. Just one moment there. And if if anybody that's not in clubhouse, if if we weren't clear on our explanations of what's doing Renee, Matthew, for for the presentation. As as you both know, I was sort of in those, early wine rooms that were were happening. And, you know, as such, I'm a huge believer in the power of audio, you know, both as a networking tool, but also as a as a brand expansion tool. But I have some I suppose a a question really about future iterations of club house and where it goes next. One of the reasons I sort of, started to spend less time there was really just, from a from a monetization perspective. It it it felt like I was putting a lot of content out there that, I could possibly, repurpose somewhere else, more more effectively, perhaps, obviously pros and cons of that of that that argument, but just wondering where clubhouse is up to now and and what opportunities there are to monetize your time, you know, if you are one of those authorities that that continues to give out their, you know, their skills. I'll let you cover that. Yeah. I monetize. My social media is fully monetized, so I'm happy to answer this one. If you are if you're a a wine producer, I'd say putting in the time and effort to do something even if it's, like, an hour or two a week is really great for social media, the, and for yourself because your monetization you would get is sales. Now, putting that aside. If you are a regular person in wine that's trying to just monetize as a communicator for wine, then selling something with analytics attached to it and attaching it to kind of like a larger campaign overall would be a great way to monetize. If you are American, you can add a cash app on there and ask people if they want to give you a tip, which is something you can do on clubhouse. I don't do that. I find that it's great to have somebody, attach it to a larger campaign. It's a great way to monetize, because you might do something for an hour. It's easier to price out. You can put it down into a time limit. And if they want you to do any work before, and it's kinda like just preparing for a seminar. So your costing for it can be quite similar, in terms of wineries, you can have someone on your social media team that might get a bonus to do the work, depending on how much they actually do towards it, and you can sell tickets, IE, wine to people to participate with you. So there's many ways to monetize you are only bounded by what you can think of. I I wanna add something to that too. I think that it depends on when we're trying to get out of the app. I mean, we've had these conversations before. I think I I kind of vibe with Renee because she's not ever hard selling anything on the app. Just get a chance to meet so many people. I know that I've gotten video business out of it. Also met with number of producers that that I wouldn't have talked to otherwise, especially when we couldn't travel or couldn't do anything during those times. And I just looked at it as just another networking thing, because it's almost like a virtual dinner table, and you can't be everywhere all at once. But with clubhouse, you can be at a couple different dinner table conversations in the same evening. Exactly. I just did my first clubhouse today. Congratulations. Which was, which was recorded for the also for the Italian wine podcast. And I was curious though if people can record the clubhouse. And if there are, like, privacy issues there, and what happens if somebody doesn't feel comfortable with something that happened in that conversation that then becomes you know, part of our social media history. Okay. Let's you said you had two questions. Is that the first one? That's the first one. Let's answer first. Okay. You've done recorded room. Yeah. Let let me tackle. It's Big part of the beauty in Clubhouse isn't like any real conversation, any dinner table conversation. It's open. It's spontaneous. That's what makes it a little bit more fun. One of my partners wanted to do rooms with recorded audio, and we would always have to ask we we'd have to let everyone know with a little red record button at the room. Room of the room. That's being recorded. And then you should ask on some I know people are popping in and out of rooms all the time. Thankfully here today, Nanda, but nobody's popped out of this room. So that's been great. But you do let the people know ahead of time, hey, this is being recorded. And as they come up on stage, because they are recording the audio, not like a screen recording, so you can't if you're just listening, it's like you're never there and recorded. I I I like it if you're having maybe just a a a certain panel, like, for instance, if I was hosting and let's say Renee was was a celebrity or something, I was just asking her question that would be cool to record and make as a podcast. But for kind of more open conversations, I'm not a pro record in that instance. Are there there there are instances, for example, where you're having a conversation and somebody comes on who you don't necessarily know or know well, and they say something, like, completely inappropriate, and you find yourself as part of this recorded transcript, even though you may not have said that, something, like, I don't know, racist or offensive in some way. And, like, how do you deal with something like that? Can I can I answer that? Yeah. Go ahead. So, I'm involved heavily in YouTube rooms. I don't know if anybody's a YouTube geek like I am. That'll by show of hands. Anybody heard of the YouTube record, mister Beast? I don't know by share hands. Is anybody here? No. You can just tell us about it. Okay. Never mind. So, anyways, he's got about eighty million subscribers. He makes every one of his videos go viral. Most of his videos, he's giving away money, he's giving away houses. Like, he went viral first time giving ten thousand dollars to a homeless guy, all that kind of stuff. He got out of clubhouse once in the and I was in the room and the room just blew up. I think there were about eight thousand people in it. He was answering everybody's question. And, somebody recorded it and perceived him saying a racist comment. So he got stuck in that kind of sit certain situation. He just never came back on again. There is a lot of difficulty with that, but that there are pros and cons to all social media outputs. Women on Instagram know how their photos can be used to judge against them. It is difficult to be in a space where you've, where you can feel really free, but that's the other thing you're looking at it as a business person. You are putting something on the internet that you have a bit of control over. Thinking about what your actions are for that are very important. And if you can defend your actions for that, that's also equally as important. There is, if you feel like you are going to be in a space where if you oh, I can't say this racist thing I wanna say because everyone's gonna hear it. Maybe you shouldn't say it, or maybe you should have that conversation offline. Before you wanna try and have it online with some friends that will actually listen to you and tell you that what you're saying is bad or good. Well, I mean, I mean, an example would be, though, if if somebody posts on your Facebook page and they say, like, really bad things in the comment. You just delete it. Right? Yeah. You can kick people off stages. Okay. You can kick people out of brooms. Okay. My second question is about social validity. So, like, I just started today. I've got one follower. Right? Like, I don't care. Like, people can look at me and say, the guy's got no friends. It doesn't bother me. My brand is fine. But if I'm a winery and, you know, I'm an important winery in Bell Pollachello or something, and I started out on clubhouse, and I start out at zero, it looks kinda shitty, right, until you build up a certain level of of followers. Like, how do you how do you deal with with that kind of social validation? I think with wineries, it's even easier because there was a couple of producers on there. Some here from Vapo Laachella. And to them, I don't think it would really matter any bit. It's they had twelve people in their room because those are gonna be twelve interested customers. And to add to that, social media is work. It work in general. My, like, sixty to seventy percent of my business that I do that generates funds for me to live and have a savings account and do all this other stuff takes so much time that I'll spend, like, I'll work twelve hours a day, and I'll only be focusing on social media stuff. It takes time and effort to grow a following And the more you put effort into it, the more consistent you are at doing that, the better the returns are. Most of the time, I think when people come into social media as an established brand, that don't think that they have to put in the effort. You still do. And I think, Chris, one thing is this is where clubhouse really shines is it really doesn't matter how many followers you have. Oh, yeah. Because if people hear if if you can articulate yourself well, you you are putting good content out there. You're saying great stuff. People will recognize that, and it really doesn't matter. First, there are other people that that I follow on the platform that don't have a ton of followers, but I think they're super interesting people. Do you have any other questions? Okay. Awesome. Thank you everybody for, coming, and we'll see you around Verona tonight maybe. Fears. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, EmLISM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, teaching. Hi, guys. I'm Joy LIVings Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.