Ep. 864 What Do Wine Journalists Want From Producers | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vineetili International Wine and Spirits. The fifty fourth edition of Vineetili was held from the tenth to the thirteenth of April. If you missed it, don't worry, go to benitely plus dot com for on demand recordings of all the sessions from the exhibition. Thalian wine podcast. A wine to wine business forum twenty twenty one media partner is proud to present a series of sessions highlighting the key themes and ideas from the two day event held on October the eighteenth and nineteenth twenty twenty one. This hybrid edition of the business forum was jam packed with the most informed speakers discussing some of the hottest topics in the wine industry today. For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Welcome to this wine to wine digital session. I'm Kareen Kedi, and I'm excited to be here, to help moderate this discussion on what do wine journalists want from producers? And I'm excited to introduce our guest speaker and friend, Mikaela Morris. Mikaela is an international wine writer, educator, and speaker based in Vancouver, Canada. She contributes regularly to decantor magazine and Mineninger's wine business international as well as Canadian publications, quench and taste. Mikaela holds a wine and spirits education trust diploma and was one of the first certified Italian wine experts through Van Italy International Academy. She educates about Italian wine across Canada and judges at wine competitions around the globe. She's worked in various capacities in the wine industry for over two decades. Including as marketing and logistics manager for a premium Italian wine importing company, helping to build it into a national enterprise. Let's welcome Mikaela, and I'm excited to hear all about her ideas on this presentation. Thank you. Thank you so much, Corinne. It's great to see you. I appreciate that lovely introduction. And I wanna thank everyone who's attending the seminar today whether you're online or in I'm sorry I can't be there with you in person. I'm coming to you direct from my home in in Vancouver. Thanks to the wine to wine team as well. I know that the technical side of this is is complicated. There's so many balls. In the air. So thanks to all of you, and thanks to everyone on on on the ground. I wanna start this session by recognizing that we could actually have a parallel session entitled what do wine producers want from journalists So I throw that out there, perhaps for for next year, and I'd be very happy to, to sit on that session. But today I'm gonna talk to you about what wine journalists want from, from producers. Now, Johnson Robinson, whom I admire greatly, addressed an audience in Australia a number of years ago, and she reminded them that we, meaning the wine journalists, couldn't do our job if wine producers didn't exist. The opposite, of course, is not true. Wine producers can vary easily. I don't wanna say easily, but they can certainly make wine without the help of us wine journalists. That being said, I don't think that, wine journalists are complete parasites in the, in the wine industry. We do play a role in disseminating information, keeping people up to date on what's going on in particular wine regions, maybe even putting a spotlight on upcoming or lesser known wine regions or producers or grapes, and and really just making that, that link between the wine producer and and trade and consumers alike. So the role that we play is is of, I don't know, greater or lesser importance, However, the relationship that we have with producers is not one side. So I wanna give some tips, to producers in terms of how best maybe or to go about engaging with mind journalists. I think one of the most important things to always remember is, who's in front of you? Who are you speaking to? So know your audience, and there are different types of, of media. So, there's the influencers which are really more famous personalities. Let's say, they could be people also who are within the wine trade, but oftentimes they're outside of the wine trade. And and they can be used quite, quite well to, to promote brands and even drive sales. But their role is quite different from bloggers, and wine wine journalists. And I would say that the line between bloggers and wine writers has become a bit blurred especially as things have moved more online. That being said, for me, there's still a clear distinction or certain differences between bloggers and and journalists. Bloggers tend to be self published. They may have their own their own website And they write more in a diary format. So, typically, they'll have less parameters in terms of how many words they can use, and even sometimes in terms of, in terms of deadlines. They may not have the strict deadlines that a that a wine writer, has. There are many very, very effective, wine bloggers who I like to read, but I would say that there are no barriers to entry when it comes to blogging. Really anyone can can be a blogger. So you get a little bit of of everything there. The other thing too about wine bloggers is that, it may for for for many of them be be more of a a side gig. So they may have their their own income coming in from another industry and and the the the blog, maybe in addition to that. In terms of wine writers, we are commissioned by a publication, to write a specific story. And so as I mentioned, we have deadlines. We have parameters, for our articles. And I know myself, it is my primary source of income. I do have to supplement it a little bit with some judging and teaching, but I love all of that, but it does mean I have to write a lot of articles to actually make a decent a decent living. And I I think my, fellow journalists who who do have it as a primary source of income would would agree. So you have to do a lot of writing. There are there are some blind bloggers who have become journalists. And there are some journalists who have a blog. I don't have a blog. I think the closest thing I have to a blog is my Instagram account. So I'm coming at this presentation, really, as is a, as a wine writer who has deadlines and parameters for every story that that I write. So I'm gonna answer the question. What do you wine journalists want from producers? And for me, there is really one one specific thing. There are many answers that I could give. But when I think about it, the most important thing is I want to write a unique story. So I want that unique and and genuine story from the producer themselves. I want all of the juicy details. I want the technical side, but especially when I'm visiting a producer, it's really part of, of the visit is to get into the personality of the of the producer and also the the winery themselves. I love all the extra stories, things that you wouldn't see or read on a website, like the relationship that the new generation has with the with the grandparents, you started the winery, or what went wrong when you first started making wine, and you had to call on the neighbor and help you start an unstuck fermentation, and both of you had to undressed your underwear and jump in that bag and and start stomping the grapes themselves. These stories are what, what makes the, that that that experience come alive. And even if we don't write about it, we get a sense of, of what's behind that website, that that producer from, from afar. So give us all of those juicy details, and that means in terms of communication to be specific in in your communication. So I'll give you an example. I I cover the, the new releases from Tuscany every year for decantra magazine. And so I'm tasting a lot of reserve a wines, and I I ask, so how do you make your reserve a? And the answer is often from the best grapes. But what is it that makes those grapes the best? Because there are only so many tasting notes I can write to say that your reserva is made from the best grapes. Is it from a specific vineyard? Is it from the oldest finds? Does it come from all of the the vineyards and you're making a specific selection? How do you make that, that selection? How is it done that year? So getting into those details helps us understand the the wine that are in the glass. Another example would be, saying that you're sustainable. Well, what is it that makes you sustainable beyond organic, vidocals, whether you're certified or not? How have you lowered your carbon footprint tell me about your waste management program and also what you're doing in your local community to help that, be sustainable as well and, perhaps the the investment that you've made in your workers. One of the publications that I write for in Canada is called Wench magazine, and it's recently been relaunched in in its print format. And one of the sections that we have is specifically on our sustainable picks. And when I write my tasting note, I'm not just writing about what I taste and smell on the line. I'm also writing about those specific practices that a winemaker or winery is doing towards sustainability so that we can educate consumers as to what sustainability is actually about. So please be specific. One final example, and that is that I cover when I'm covering the the, when I'm doing a vintage report, for decanter, I'm talking about I I wanna know how the vintage was, not just at WUIS good or bad, but how how was the weather conditions, throughout the, throughout the growing season, whether whether problems with hail or frost or or or drought, when did that occur? What did you do to mitigate it? And how did those affect your decisions in terms of finification? The the temperatures of unification, how long was the maceration? And and when you talk about aging vessels, there are so many different shapes sizes, provenance, ages of oak barrels, let us know specifically. The more information that we have as journalists, the more details we're able to share with our readers. And I take all of that information, and I taste the wine And I pull from that information what it is that I want to, what I what I believe may have an impact or the story, not just the story of the wine, but also why the wine might taste as it as it does. For Decatur, I have to include fifty percent of my Tastino as technical details. Maybe not just the vidification, but what the terroir is like, the history in the background of the of the producer. So it's a big help, the more details we have. So don't be afraid to discuss what was challenging and be honest about those challenges. Challenges add drama, and drama makes a great story, especially if it's a happy ending, meaning, a a great wine at the end of the day after all after after all of those challenges. But address them, honestly, speak to us, honestly, about them. I would also encourage producers not to be afraid to speak off record. And I think that I speak for most of my colleagues in in in that if you tell us that something is off record, I know for me personally, I will keep that off record. Why I say that is that those off record conversations are just as important as the on record or for the record conversations because they do give some background and context as to perhaps, you know, some issues throughout the the the vintage or things that are going on in the region. It may help us investigate things further. And if we do end up writing about said issue, we won't implicate a particular producer, but we're able to investigate further. So I love those off the record conversations myself. So that's what we want. We want the juicy details. We want all we we want we want all of the specifics. If I could now say what we don't want or perhaps what I don't want, and a lot of that is around point scores. So when I'm tasting a wine, with a producer, one of the details actually really don't need is what another journalist scored that mind or what awards, it won. I am so happy for you if you have had great accolades, and that should be celebrated and shared on social media. It can be disseminated as well to consumers, your importers are gonna wanna use that to help sell the wine. It's absolutely great information. But for me, as a journalist, I'm there to assess the wine for myself. So it's it's not one of the details. I'm actually looking for. And if I could, speak further about wine scores, it's always important to remember that wine journalists who give out point scores have their own individual scale, and they are not equal from wine journalists to the next. There are some who have, who score lines higher, some who score them lower. So it's within the context of a single, journalist. You do not need to think a wine journalist for giving you a high point score, nor do you need to berate a wine journalist for giving you a low or what you might deem a low point score? It's our job And we're not here to do we're not giving you the point score to do you a favor nor are we doing it to be mean? I always try to be respectful in in my tasting notes. And I think it's important, not just to read the point score, but to read the note that accompanies it because I think it gives, the best indication as to why we may have, rated a line a certain number. The good thing is there are lots of, line riders out there giving out point scores. So if one journalist doesn't like it, or perhaps another one does, so you don't have to worry about those point scores. A final note on that is if we rate something highly, gifts are not necessary, In fact, it makes me it makes me uncomfortable to to to receive gifts from from producers, and I think that's important to to be set. So visiting producers, it's actually my favorite part of the of the job I'm always very grateful, for the time and generosity that, producers show when I arrive, especially if it's harvest time and I know how busy you are. It's a really special time for me, to to to understand a little bit more in-depth, the producer and their lines. And I also think it's a really important moment, for the producer as well, hopefully. So I wanna just give, a few tips perhaps on how you can go about preparing and managing the the these visits. It goes back to what I say at the beginning where you want to know your audience who's showing up at the winery. Is it a group of lifestyle writers who may want a little bit more romance and a little bit technical, a little bit less technical information, or is it a wine journalist who really wants to get into those, those details. One of the biggest discussions or the ongoing discussions that I have with with fellow, wine writers is about, spending time in the vineyard rather than spending time in the wine cellar. It is it's so amazing because so many producers say that, wine is made in the in the vineyard rather than in the cellar. And yet we still turn up at, at, at wineries and we're not even taken to CEO of RN. We're taken into the seller. And I know there's a big investment that goes into the seller, and there are things that we can learn from from going into the seller. But in general, most most wine writers want to see the vineyards because that's really really sets it apart from, from another region and even even perhaps from, from your neighbor. Even you are visiting the the the vineyard, and I'm always up for a visit in the vineyard, rain or shine anytime of the year, Just make sure that you allow time for the wine tasting if that is the purpose of the visit. There are some wine writers who actually don't need to taste the wines when they show up at the winery because maybe they've had samples sent to them already. But many of us, haven't had that opportunity. So that tasting is really important, and I need time to write my tasting notes, and to give, to give the wine the time and the glass that to that it needs. So just always allow time for that. I would also say I would I would also say put your best foot forward, so open up a fresh bottle. If you feel like it needs air, certainly you can open it up ahead of time and and decant it. That's no problem, but don't rely on wines been open two or three days ago, because it's really not the best way for us to assess wines. Corovan is absolutely acceptable. In in my opinion, others may disagree. And if possible, if they're not too busy, get the winemaker or the Viticulture is to come by what we're tasting or in the vineyard, because we can ask those really technical questions, and and they can answer them for us. And it just gives us a further connection to, to the wine and the winery. Nevertheless, you're gonna maybe wanna have the technical sheets handy. I am always surprised at how even the wine maker can remember, the technical details of a wine that made three years ago, and inevitably there will be an annoying journalist like myself who wants to know the pH of a certain wine. So, having those handy is always helpful, but I will not take them with me when I leave the visit please email them to me after visiting thirty wineries when I'm in a wine wine region. I can't log around with that paper and I don't want that violet, when I get home. So, less is more. The other point that that I I think it's important to make, and especially, for myself because I do a lot of visits actually on my own rather than in groups. And that is silence is golden when we're tasting. Do not be afraid of that silence I need time to listen to the wine, and to write my note. And if I'm have to be constantly engaged in a dialogue, I'm not gonna write down what I need to. And if I visit their new wineries, I'm not gonna be able to remember that mind when I get home. So don't be afraid of those silences. I know they can be uncomfortable, but sometimes I feel I I feel like it's such a blessing, when we have a moment to actually just look at the mind and, you know, and in in silence. This is the opportunity. Visits are the opportunity for you to ask for feedback. I think it is absolutely acceptable to ask those in front of you tasting the wines what they think. However, I would I would ask you to have to wait until we've tasted all of the wines so that we have a global idea of the wines, and so there's not that constant discussion while we're tasting. And I would also say that if you ask for feedback, you have to be prepared to receive it. And and and allow for that that honest communication from whoever is tasting the wine. In some ways, you could think about these visits as having some free consultancy. And that doesn't mean that what a wine journalist says to you is the gospel truth, but I do think it's good to listen to what someone's saying to you, and sometimes you may get the same feedback repeating, and you may wanna look at that and, do what you want with that information. But they may even be giving you information about a certain market that that they're coming from and why a certain line wouldn't be suitable for that market or or why it might be. Now I'm talking in this session, as a monologue. I mean, this is something that I would caution against when you have a group of wine writers in front of you, really try to, conduct the your visits as a dialogue. I was just in the Okinawa Valley, which is our local wine region in British Columbia with a group of other wine writers, And there was a winemaker who was an absolute function of knowledge, but we couldn't get a word in EdgeWise. And it meant that I couldn't ask the questions that I needed about a certain subject that I'm writing about So I probably won't be able well, I definitely won't be able to quote him in in the article that I'm writing. Basically, I got plenty of other time to ask questions to other two other producers. So do allow time for, for everyone's questions. One last thing I would say about visits is that I don't I don't recommend that you show videos during a visit. When we show up at an Hawaiian region, the magic is in the moment. It's in the engagement with whoever's in front of us. And the beautiful vineyards that are surrounding us. If we're dragged away from that and have to sit in a room and watch a promotional video, that magic is somewhat spoiled. The best time for us to watch those videos is at home, we return from our trip, then we're writing our article, and we wanna be reminded of that magic. So, really, you want you wanna keep the the visits inter interactive. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to do as many visits over the last year and and a half. So there's been a lot of communication from afar. So communication from afar happens in different, different, aspects. But websites are, I think, more important than ever, and in some regards to, I think there's a session probably on on web sites in wine to wine, but you really wanna keep your website up to date and put in some of those specific details. I love going on a winery's website and seeing the technical sheet on there that I can download for the latest vintage. So that I don't have to email and ask how many months did you age the two thousand and sixteen vintage in in in Uberry, because I need to put that in it to in in my tasting note or or, convey that information. So if you have that information available to you and the technology, by all means use it. There's a lot of emails, as well for that communication from afar. And for me personally, email is my preferred choice of communication, especially in, for, you know, professional manner, if you're wanting to send me updates on your on your new releases. I don't always respond to to to social media just because there's too much coming at me at the same time. Get to know that journalists that you're corresponding with, they may feel differently than I do. I cannot get back to every email though. I'm quite inundated by emails. So this is my time to apologize. To any winery who I haven't answered, I have to prioritize my emails. And usually, that priority is whatever article I'm writing right now that has a deadline, ahead ahead of me. I do wanna talk a little bit about some tips for trip organizers, but I do, before I move on to that, just one last thing in terms of the the, the relationship between producers and wine journalists directly, And that's about sending samples. I receive a lot of samples. I get a lot of requests to receive samples. I don't review every line that is sent to me. I will review the good ones. The best ones, the ones that I think, are worthy of a of review, but I also need to find an article to put them in so I can't do ad hoc reviews. No barrel samples for for me personally. Other journalists may disagree, but find out if you're sending samples and you're paying that money, find out if they're if if they want to to, a barrel sample, but I cannot review mine unless it's finished. And last but not least, in terms of samples, respect whatever instructions are given to you about sending samples. Every country is different in terms of its regulations. I live in Canada where our regulations are very strict. I see current smiling there. And if mailbox plus tells you that they can ship direct to an individual in Canada. They are lying to you. I have had to run around and try and find commercial brokers a number of times for samples unsolicited that were sent to me, and it is a lot of time and and costly as well. So, just be, just be aware of that. I'm sure there's plenty of questions from, from producers, and we're gonna get to the Q and A in just a moment. If I could just spend a few moments addressing, consortiums, PR firms, people who are organizing incoming trips for for groups of, journalists. As I said before, I love visiting producers, and these wine trips are some of the most fun that I have in my job, but it is work, please beforehand send that itinerary. It helps us pitch articles, to our editors ahead of time. It helps us prepare interviews, so that when we are in front of the, the producer, We know exactly what information we wanna get from them, and it is a contract. And this brings me to what I think is the most important point I I I want to address in terms of these wine tours. And that is the wellness aspect If you have free time in an itinerary, that is something that you have to be religious about keeping. I realize that there are always changes in in itineraries, but, we guard that free time quite preciously. We're there to work absolutely, but We're not available twenty four seven when we're on the ground. We are wine writers. We still have deadlines. We have family that we may need to to get in touch with. And for those of us, like myself who are coming from afar when I get to Italy after a day of travel, I have brutal jet lag. And after tasting all day, sometimes I appreciate a quick nap or a quick run at the end of the day so that I'm refreshed for the activities in in the evening. The other, aspect of these trips is the food, which is always very exciting to me. So I absolutely put in those local specialties, but, you have to have some balance. So if you're coordinating a and there's different producers or restaurants who are providing the the food, correspond with them. See what they're gonna be serving. So it's not always the the same thing. Obviously, there are people with, specific diets like vegetarian and vegan. I find that's usually pretty well done. But sometimes what's lacking is a salad, and a salad is welcome at every single meal. If I didn't say that in this session, I'd have my fellow wine writers up in North America upset with me because sometimes the the food can be quite rich and heavy, and we need a little bit of balanced fresh fruit is great as well. And just make sure that those dinners aren't too long and and and too heavy. We don't need that much food, especially if we've been sitting in a bus and sitting down tasting, one, we're not the ones farming grapes. So we don't need, all of those calories. And last but not least is the the time to sleep and rest. You might want to avoid lots of late night dinners or long bus rides to and from a dinner at at the end of the day. And we time in the hotel at the end of the day to wind down before we go to sleep. And then get, you know, get five or six hours so that we're refreshed and ready for the next day's activities. One last thing before I leave it to the questions, and that's, I would say that less is more. You do not need to jam pack a a a a schedule. You might wanna have that one last tasting, but that could make you late the entire day. And you you have to sacrifice that, that free time. I think a few good visits and you're gonna get good articles. You're gonna get happy happy journalists writing, positive articles about the wine region, because they've seen a lot. Hopefully, with a a good mix of large media and small producers, but you don't need to pack too much in there. I think I will leave it at that, Corey, because maybe you've got some questions coming in or have some questions yourself. Thank you so much for to everyone for paying attention. Yeah. Thanks, Mikaela. I think that was really enlightening and, lots of great discussion points there. I haven't seen any questions come in, but I think there was some great discussion in in the chat while you're presenting. I think, Mike Madado made a great point. He said, you know, in technical sheets, it's really important too to not just have a generic technical sheet, but to have vintage specific technical sheets. And I think that was a really good maybe addition to some of the things you were discussing. I'm sure you've run into that in in the past. Absolutely. And, exactly, because we always say that vintage matters as well. And if I'm if I'm reporting on, Bruno, I do think that that that what a producer does from one year to the next is different. So, yeah, and and I know that it's a lot of work and especially for, some smaller wineries that may not have the the time to to update their technical sheets. But if you do, if you can't spread the time, you do have the the the technology to put it onto your website. An updated one specific to the vintage, is always welcome. Absolutely. I think another thing that, that you were talking about, which I know I ran into was, receiving samples from someone. Yeah. And, they had included promotional material within it, which really kinda screwed up the logistics of getting the, of the liquor boards releasing the wine minds. It was a little bit of a a little bit of a nightmare for myself. I know running around and maybe you might wanna just comment on something like that. Yeah. Absolutely. That it goes back to what I said about. Asking for what the specific instructions are and following them and not think, like, I've worked in the wine industry for twenty five years. Corinne, probably, you know, for, I know for a while as well. So we know what the regulations are. So when we give you our instructions, maybe stick to them. And I I say to everyone, like, don't put any paper in your with your, with your samples at any point. Send me what you want by email. It's so much easier to file. I I throw away everything that I'm not throw away. Actually try to recycle it. But better than recycling is to reduce, and I think we are a lot of us are really in that that mindset. So, you know, be really careful about sending, promotional material, especially to you, to to markets that are quite controlled, like like Canada. Yeah. We have a question here from, from Richard. He says, would you expect producers to provide English translation services? That that's a great question. And, it was something that I had wanted to address in in my in my presentation, I'm lucky to speak English, obviously, French, Italian, and some Spanish. I always ask so that producers speak slowly because my Italian, I'm not completely fluent in Spanish even less so. You know, that's that's all that is a a big asset. It is an extra. It is an extra thing. I've been on visits where the producer has asked their neighbor or, Samuel Gayay that they know who speaks who speaks English as well, and they've been so kind as as to bring that person along. It's it it's definitely a benefit because if you we're not speaking the same language, it becomes difficult to convey those stories. Nevertheless, I I I find, humans like to communicate and especially in person. There is a lot that you think you even you don't speak the same language. But certainly if it's possible to bring a translator to, to to the visit, And to the producers who are, speaking their own language and having the translator there, again, don't speak in in paragraphs, speak in sentences so that the translator can actually translate what you're saying. I because I do speak Italian, sometimes I hear the translation and the producer has spoken so long that a lot of the information gets lost in that translation. If you, have gone that extra step to get a translator, really help them do their job so that they can communicate all of those details to to the generalist. And like you said, oftentimes, they're not, official translators either. So, you know, you you wanna make sure that you're getting as much of the technical info and that's not getting lost in translation so to speak. Right? Yeah. Excellent. Fantastic. Yeah. I think I think that was, most of the questions, we had for today. Is there anything else you want to just finish off closing with? I'll just reiterate, the session takeaways, really to know to know your audience and to communicate to them, honestly, clearly, thoroughly, and engagingly give us all the juicy details, technical and otherwise. Also plan ahead for for any visits you have to ensure that the priorities of that visit are met. I hate getting to a winery and then I didn't get to ask my questions or or taste, taste the wine set that I wanted to because I only had that opportunity to visit the winery. And then last but not least for Trivet organizers make wellness, priority. This means the free time, a well balanced diet, and allowing proper sleep to the journalists. Hopefully, that helps. Thank you, Corinne, for for moderating this. Absolutely. Yes. Thanks, Mikaela, for a great session. And I'm I'll I'll be excited to hear, next year's version, like you said. Absolutely. I'll be there for that. Hopefully, you personally, verona. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Well, thank you very much. And with that, we'll close the session. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetly International Wine Spacehibition, the biggest drinks trade fair in the world. Remember to subscribe to Italian wine podcast in catch us on SoundCloud, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love, and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.