Ep. 883 Eight Practical Ways To Improve Your Winery Website | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm Central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Hello. Hello, everyone. Welcome. Very excited about this, little session that we're gonna have right now. My name is Yannick Benjamin. I am a sommelier here in New York City. I also have a restaurant called Contental restaurant located in East Harlem. We're very wine centric. I also have a nonprofit called wine on wheels, which is to help other people with disabilities You know, we train them to get back into the hospitality industry and we provide them with resources that they may need to help them reach their objectives. Today's webinar, I'm proud to say, is eight practical ways to improve your wanna re website for consumers. Think it's a really exciting webinar that we're gonna learn a lot from. I know I'm gonna learn a lot from because, I was doing the actual website or at least I was trying to create for, content. So there's a lot to learn. We're gonna be hosted by Mike Madeado. He's a wine journalist and Bin Italy International Academy Italian wine Ambassador. He currently serves as editor for the Italian wine Unplugged vlog series Mamma Mia Gebono, and his writing has appeared in publications such as wine enthusiasts, wine pair, and Palletcrest. In addition, Mike has spent nearly twenty years working with one of the world's leading interactive omnichannel retailers, developing in this industry, recognized expertise in digital commerce and online customer experience. So, Mike, he's gonna review best practices for digital customer experience. Site net site design, navigation, and more as they relate to winery websites. During this session, he's gonna talk about eight concrete suggestions for improving your informational website for consumers with plenty of real life examples. Could not be more excited. Mike, welcome, and thank you very much. We're gonna try to jump right in. Again, this is eight practical ways to improve your winery website for customers. We're gonna get practical and tactical in this session. I know some of the other sessions were a little more strategic. We're gonna we're gonna try to really get our roll up our sleeves and and dig in a little bit more here. As Yannik said, I am an Italian wine ambassador and a wine writer, but but my focus today is really on the UX research, the Design Research side. I've been designing and evaluating websites for more than twenty years, mostly in e commerce space. But most importantly, I've watched thousands of hours of people using websites, right? And that, you know, understanding what they like, where they succeed, where they get frustrated, where they get confused, That's really to me the lifeblood of any web designer. If you go to hire a web designer for for your business, ask them, do you watch people use websites? Cause if they don't, that concerns me that that they're they're not gonna be the best web designer. Okay? You gotta watch people and really understand and empathize with them. So my practical suggestions today are going to be based on that based on all that research that I've done. Of course, these are best practices. I don't have access to your you know, your business's data. And and every business is different, but hopefully these best practices can can get you going on the right direction. There will be some critique today. Okay. I'm gonna pull up a lot of real websites. If yours is up there, please don't take offense, you know, see it as free advice from a from an industry veteran. And also, I don't go really go to websites for wineries that I don't like, so I probably like your wine if you're if you're mentioned up here today. The other important consideration today as we go through is really thinking about the consumer mindset. So so I did, you know, look at this considering a consumer coming to your winery website. Obviously, there are journalists, there are people in the trade. Mikayla had an interesting, presentation yesterday, more on the journalist side, which goes into some, you know, other more technical things that journalists need. There's some overlap there for sure, but, but I'm thinking about the consumer. And and the key thing to think about is the consumer comes to your website to do something. Okay? They want to learn about a wine that they've drank. They want to see what other wines maybe you have in your collection. They want to learn about the history of the winery. Maybe they want to set up a visit. So there's there's always a goal in mind. Okay. No one's sitting around going, oh, this cantina Madaya wine is great. I'm gonna go see how they designed their website. That's not something people think about. I mean, I think about that because I'm a total geek, but most people aren't going to think about that. And so we need to make sure that our website designs don't get in the way of whatever that goal has to be. So I'll talk about that a lot. One last thing to note before I jump in, there are of course some cultural differences when you talk about Italy versus the US, UK, Russia, China. Okay? But in my experience, doing research, mostly in the US and the EU, is that usability is usability. A website that's easy to use in Italy is easy to use in the United States and vice versa. So I feel confident about that for sure. I remember one design mobile first. It's twenty twenty one. Okay. You're at line to line. I probably don't need to tell you that you need a mobile website that your website needs to work on mobile. There are still some small liners out there that that don't. But for the most part, this is not that big of an issue, but that's not the same thing as design mobile first. Okay? Mobile should be considered your primary website, the first website you look at. When you go to redesign, when you go to add something, when you go to test something, you should be looking at the mobile site first. And there's there's really two main reasons for that. One is that it's probably the one in which most people come in to your site. Okay. And if you look at your metrics, it's probably number one already. If it's not, it's close and it's going to be soon. Okay. And number two is that you design something for a very small screen and it works and it looks nice, it's very easy to expand that to a bigger screen. But it's not always easy to do the opposite to go from a big screen down to a small screen. Let's go through a few examples. So if you look at the, the one on the left here, it's a site that is designed for mobile. It fits on the mobile screen, but the thing that struck me about this was how enormous the bottles were. Okay? My thumb hurts just looking at this video, having to scroll so much just to to go through the wines that are available on the site. And I find it unlikely that someone would have looked at design mobile first and said, yes, the images should really be this big on this particular site. Whereas if we look over on the right side, it's a much, you know, much easier to just kind of browse through this page and see which wines are available much much more designed for the smaller screen. That said continuing on this same sorry. Lost my place here. Continuing with this same the same site, I noticed that on the desktop site, there was additional information shown. Okay. In this case, the vintage information that helps the customer decide which of these lines they should click on to find out the information that they're looking for. And my guess, again, I didn't design this site, but my guess is that maybe when they went to to to transition this down to mobile, they realized that there wasn't all enough space to show all these vintages. And so they hit it. And so what happens is, again, if you design mobile first, you you realize what information is crucial to the customer and you figure out a way to design it on the small screen. And then when you go to the larger screen, you don't have to worry about fitting it in because there's plenty of space. One last example here. This particular website uses the hover technique. So if you hover your mouse over each of these wine bottles, it tells you the name of the wine, and you can't really tell from the label. Right? But if you look at the mobile site on the left, there's no hover on mobile because you don't have a mouse. Right? So it's a and and it's very difficult to read the label. So there's really no way to know which of these wines is the one you're interested in. And so you you you end up having a guess. And again, to repeat myself, if you design for mobile first, the designer would have looked at this and said, we need to put the name of this wine on the on the screen. And then once that's done, moving it up to desktop is is quite easy. You can add the hover technique when you go up to desktop, in this particular case, I'm not sure it has any value, but but if for some reason it does, you can always add that in when you go up to the larger screen. So this brings second point, which is use flashy stuff carefully. And by flashy stuff, I mean, animation, video, interactive techniques, things of this nature, and we'll go through some examples. Note that I don't say don't use these, okay, because This kind of stuff can draw attention to particular aspects of your website. It can help, you know, reinforce what your brand is all about. So so when used correctly. But a lot of times I see people overusing these things or using them in ways that get in the way of those user goals that we talked about at the beginning. So again, let's take a look through some examples. So first up is just this idea of animation. Okay? Animeation can draw the user's attention, and that can be very useful. The problem is sometimes it gets overused, okay, and so I see websites where there's things flying around everywhere and everything is animated. Okay. When everything is is animated, essentially nothing is animated. Not only does it not draw my attention. The fact that everything's moving almost makes me, like, gets me dizzy and makes me not sure where to look. Okay. So really wanna use animation more tactically and say, Like, what do I want people's attention to go to? And let's animate that and not animate things that we don't need. A couple more examples here. So on this on the on the site on the left here, what's happening is I'm in the menu and I click on lines. And there's a short little animation that I sit through. But then you'll see at the bottom of the screen, there's another animation telling me that I actually need to swipe with my finger. I eventually figure that out and it takes me to the wines. But at this point, I've said to my I thought to myself, I already told you at the very, very beginning when I clicked on wines that I wanted to see the wines. Why I had to sit through all that animation and figure out what to do next? It's crazy. There's no need for me to have had to sit through that and have to figure that out. Okay? In English, we have a phrase called death or an idiom death by a thousand paper cuts, meaning that you might be thinking like, oh, it's two seconds of animation who cares, and that may be true if it happened once. But on a site like this, it probably is going to happen again and again and again as I'm clicking through the site. And every time I have to wait, every time I have to figure something out, It's frustrating. It's annoying. It makes me wanna go somewhere else. Okay. Again, continue to go back to the, what is the goal? Is is what I'm putting on my website helping that customer get to their goal? Over on the right hand side here, different example. Okay. This is, the estates page. So it's, you know, the different estates that a particular larger wanting company owns. And especially on mobile, it's got this interactive map Okay? And you can you can almost sense my frustration as I'm scrolling in and out and trying to figure out how this particular page works. Okay? I was thinking when I was going through it instead of actually looking, reading about the individual estates that this company has, I was trying to figure out how the website worked. Okay? And again, the customers never that's not why they're here. They don't wanna see how the website works. Yes. A map offers value for sure. But on this particular page, I kept thinking to myself, like, if they just listed out the different states with a map, that would have probably helped me get to where I needed to go a lot faster and easier, and and also allowed me to see kind of all the estates at once and and pick which one I wanna do. So again, thinking about, like, does this interactivity, this animation that we're adding, does it add value to the customer's experience? One more really interesting example. Okay. So speaking of adding value, like, this video that's playing on this website is beautiful. Right? I would say it does add value. It makes me wanna go there. Right? It makes me wanna drink their wines. It's really, really just a lovely video. And I love the fact that they have the menu here at the top. So if I've seen it before or if I'm not interested, I can just click right in to where I'm going. But where they maybe took it a step too far as this text, try to read this text while the video is playing in the background. Don't know about you, but for me, I found it disorienting. I couldn't really focus. I wasn't sure where my eyes should go, and, you know, it was very difficult to read that text, and it, and kind of confused me as to where I was supposed to be focused when I was looking at this site. And so, again, coming back to really using this stuff carefully and thinking about, like, we wanna draw a user's attention to this. In this case, we probably wanna draw the user's attention to this this beautiful video. So let's take that text and move it somewhere else, and and that way they can look at the video or they can use the menu and and move on. This does bring me to my next point, which is, which is measuring site speed. Okay. We we tend to not think about this as much now that broadband is more more prevalent in the world, but site speed still makes a difference. And there's a tool out there that you can use that's free. It's called Google, page speed insights. You can type it into Google, and then you can punch in your website, and it will tell you, it'll give you a score of how your site did. And you can see that this particular site did not do did not do that well, especially on mobile. And my guess, you know, I didn't design this site. I don't have access to the code, but my guess is that the video itself maybe a very heavy file and may take a while to download that I'm sure there are techniques that they can do to make that better or to, you know, to to watch out for slow connections, but this is something that's really important to know for a couple of reasons. One, if someone comes to your website, especially if they're on a slow connection, I've spent time in rural Italy. I know the connections can be very slow. They're gonna leave and go somewhere else, which is bad. Okay. It's also bad because if they came from Google and Google sees that, Google could potentially lower your search engine ranking. Because you have bounces. And then they Google can also look at your site speed results and and potentially affect your search under rankings that way. Okay. So, of course, we don't have time to to go into the details of how to fix this now, but knowing is is certainly a good step one. Moving on to number four, making it easy to browse lines. So going back to what I was talking about earlier, someone has a goal, and a lot of times our goal is to be to find out a, information about a specific line or a group of lines. Or look at your breath of wines, and I see so often winery is struggling to make it easy for people to just browse through the lines. Again, we'll go through a bunch of examples. So in this particular site, you'll see in the video In order to browse through the wines, I I've been forced to click on these arrows and page through one at a time. Okay. So you're you're you're asking the user to take extra effort just to view the wines that are available. Which can be frustrating for a user. The other thing that's interesting to note here is that the winer the wines have fantasy names, which is fine, but there's no additional information on each screen. So in actuality, if I'm not familiar with these wines already, I would have to click find out more on each one to to really see the assortment that this winery offers. This is another one. They do a much better job here of that last point that I made where know, they're explaining what the line is. But you can see there's a scrolling left to right, and then there's a scrolling up and down on this page, and it's not entirely clear when you come to the page exactly how it works. And so I'm spending my time. I I noticed that these little arrows here, which, you know, can potentially be helpful, but but they're pretty subtle. But I'm spending my time trying to figure out how to see all the wines on the page instead of spending my time looking at the wines themselves. Okay? And so that's that's something that you don't want. You don't want people to be trying to figure out how your website works. The amazing thing is that in the e commerce space, you know, Amazon and other big e commerce companies have already kind of established a product listing pattern. Right? This is a good example of a winery doing it well. It's just a grid. It shows each wine. It tells you what the wine is. It's very easy for me to just scroll through and find the wine I'm looking for or see all the wines that are available. I don't need to spend time figuring it out. It might not be sexy or exciting compared to, like, maybe some of the other ones, but again, they're not here for that. They're here to find out a piece of information, so making it easy and simple. And using, you know, the patterns that exist from companies that spend millions of dollars in research trying to figure out how to make these these pages better, is is the way to go. So moving on to number five. Similar line, don't use confusing wine groups. I see this so often that wineries will group their wines in ways that make sense to the winery but not to the consumer. Okay? And and this again gets in the way of the goal. So Here's an example of a menu that I pulled up, and I clicked on wines, and it asked me to choose one of these subsets of wines before I could move forward. And obviously, I know what Barolo means, but I could not tell you the difference between collection, selections, tradition, specialty. I don't I don't know what those mean. Okay? I'm sure that people at the winery do. I'm sure maybe their importer does, but there's no way a consumer would know that. And if I was interested in Barbara from this company, where would I go? I I really don't know. Okay. Here's another example. K. Perhaps a little bit better. Sorry about that. Perhaps a little bit better because maybe if I've seen the label, I can see the label here, but if I had a primativo from this winery and I wanted similar wines or other primativos, where would I click? I I I really don't know where I would click. Okay. I'd probably have to go through each of these, which is not gonna be a very, good experience. So again, coming back to what should we be doing? Alright. The gallery pattern, it works. Okay. I'm used to scrolling through. This is a a big co op winery. They've got fifty wines, okay, which is a, you know, probably on the larger set side. Okay? But scrolling through that list is not does not feel like too much. I'm I'm used to doing that on Amazon or wherever. And it helps me see like this is all the whines that they offer. And then you can see over on the left, if I want to narrow down by a line, maybe I'm in the trade, or if I wanna narrow down by a grape because I'm only interested in this specific one, I can do that. Okay? But you start with showing me everything, and then you allow me to narrow from there. If you have less than fifty wines, which is probably a lot of wineries. It's even easier. You can gonna put all your, lines on the page, and on a desktop page, they might even be all visible at a glance. You know, a little scrolling on mobile, of course, but very easy to see what lines are available and choose one and click on it. And go forth. Number six is limiting paragraph text. So there are really two different kinds of pages. There's lots of different kinds of pages, but two main kinds of pages that I wanna talk about. So there's navigation pages, which is like the homepage or the wine page that we just looked at. And these pages really act as a stepping stone. Okay. They're not Users don't expect to find the information they're looking for on that page, but that page helps them get to the page where they wanna go. Right? And then you have your destination pages, your wine, winery history, your individual wine pages, etcetera. So when I say limiting paragraph text, I I'm talking about most of these navigation page, places like the homepage. I see on winery sites, probably more so than other sites, long flowing paragraphs of text on these navigation pages. Now look, I'm a wine writer. I get it. We like to talk about the terroir and the the history and and and, you know, all the great things that we love about wine. And there's a place for that. Okay? It's on the destination pages. It's not on the homepage. It's not on the navigation pages. Now let's just look at an example here. So here's just a simple example. This is a part of a homepage of a website, and my eyes just kinda glaze over when I look at this, okay, because it's just it's hitting me with this text. And when I'm people scan on the web. Okay. They don't they don't read top to bottom left to right. They they, especially on a page like this, they're just looking for how do I get to where I wanna go. Okay? And even just having all this text, makes people just not even want to deal with it. Okay? It's nice that, you know, they've bolded some words here so home scanning. Maybe that jumps out, but just the fact that there's so much text makes it almost seem impenetrable. Whereas, similar winery, similar website. Okay. But it just it shows you how just having these blocks with headers, I can scan through this in, like, three seconds and tell you all the different places I can go. That's a great home page. Okay? It might not be the most exciting design you've ever seen, but it if I'm interested in the wines or if I was interested in this producer, I know exactly where to go right off the bat, and that's good design. Right? Here's another example, two blocks on the homepage of the same site. Okay. The one on the left has six lines of text, this long paragraph, and it, you know, what just makes me not even wanna look at it. Okay? Whereas the one on the right, doesn't need the subheader. The headline kind of conveys at all, but it's it's much easier to, to take in as someone who's just scanning through the page. I will say though scanning through the page. Look at these yellow buttons here, discover more detail. Those buttons actually pop out really nice, which is great. But but they don't they don't give any information. So if I was scanning through the page and this button jumped out, This is a little typo here too. If it said view the wines, that's all I would really need, right? Whereas discover more, now I have to figure discover more what or details detail about what. Okay? One last thing. This is just sort of a pet peeve of mine, so I had to had to put it in here today. Left align or centerline text. Okay. Centerered designs is is kind of a trend right now, maybe because of the smaller screens with mobile. Some designers like the center things, which is totally fine. Okay. But when you're talking about paragraph text, anytime you have more than say three lines of text, it really needs to be left aligned. This graphic shows nicely how it gives the eye a place to anchor. Okay. It reduces eye strain. It it it actually increases retention. It makes it easier to to read and scan these things when you have text left aligned. So that's something that is really important to do, when you have when you have any sort of paragraph text. So keeping along the same lines of, like, making it easier for people, I'm talking about prioritizing accessibility and contrast. So actually, I think in the EU, the the laws around accessibility for blind or visually impaired users are actually stricter than they are in the United States, and and obviously those should be followed. But even if there weren't laws, we would want to make it easy for people with low site or even just people, who are getting older and need glasses, to just be able to see and use your site without strain. Right? I see so many examples where I have to squint and I can really just struggle to view the text. Okay. These are all examples of winery websites where I just, you know, it was hard for me to see what the text was because of the contrast. Another example is, is here. It's blown up on the screen a little bit, but I can't really see that text. It's gray, and it's so tiny. I had to hold my phone right up to my face to see this, and it was very frustrating. Okay? Don't make it so hard for your users to view, you know, to view your site. So aside from just using common sense and maybe asking if you're young, asking someone older to take a look at the site, there is a tool you can use. It's called the web accessibility evaluation tool, if you just Google that, you type in your website and it'll tell you you've got thirty six contrast errors. Okay. And you've got and then it'll actually point out on the site where it is. And then it'll tell you a bunch of other things. A lot of this is is more on the coding side. It may have to do with with using, readers, making sure that the site is properly formatted for readers, which is is obviously something you should should do as well. Kind of goes back to the laws we talked about. So that's, of course, I mean, you'd have to work with your developer on, but, but again, knowing that these issues exist allows you to to go in and prioritize them and and make sure that they get fixed. One last one. We're almost at a time here. Probably at a time already. But I'll try to make it quick. So testing thoroughly in multiple languages is this sort of again on the same side, but, you know, it's great that so many Italian winery websites have an English site or maybe a German site, other languages as well. But I do see a lot of inconsistencies when I'm using sites in English, and so it's important to really test thoroughly and use use native speakers to test. So let me give you a couple quick examples before we wrap up here. So here's a website where we're looking at the menu. Okay. It's just kind of zoomed in for you. I've chosen English. It's pretty obvious. It says right there at the bottom, all the choices are in English. I've been clicking through and seeing the English site, and that's great. But I go ahead and I click on online shop, and it switches me back to Italian, and I don't know why. Now as a professional in this industry, I think I know why, which is probably that The online shop might be a different technology than the informational site, and they're sort of tied together to look to be the same, but they're not exactly the same. That's my guess because I see this issue quite a bit. When you switch over to shop. But that's not really an excuse because the consumer's not gonna understand that. They're not gonna know why that happened. Okay. This is Alto Adajay. Same thing happens when I do German, right? That's a core consumer there that that you're switching the language on, and they don't really understand why. And then when I come up to the top, it's just off the screen here, but click on menu again. It's telling me that I chose Italian, even though you know it. I saw it on the last screen. It was English. Okay. Another thing that happens all the time is you land on a site, on a page, like within a site, and maybe I got this out of Google. Maybe, you know, I I was reading an article about a wine and I clicked on the link or I got it off social media or something, and I see that it's in Italian. I think, okay, well, it says in Glacey right here. Great. I'll just change it so I can read it and it takes me back to the home page. Okay. And now since since I don't know this site at all, I've I haven't been there before except for that one page. Now I have to figure out where that page is, okay, incredibly frustrating experience, but you could have just reloaded the same page and shown me the English version of the page that happens all the time. Alright. One last example. Interesting story. I think that talks about testing in all languages. So I was here in Pennsylvania. I went to Google and I typed in master Biardino. Wanted to go their their website. Of course, a lot of, you know, results came up. It's a big important winery, but their winery website did not come up at all on the first page of Google. So I went to the second page, didn't come up third page, I gave up. I couldn't believe that their winery website, and so they have to have a winery website, right? It's a big company. And so I eventually found it. I came through and I saw, okay, this is a cool site and said, I want to switch it over to English, and so I clicked And just like this, it switched, which I thought was really neat. Like, the website didn't reload or anything. It just almost magically changed from Italian to English. But the web designer web researcher guy in me started thinking about it, This is interesting with the going back to the Google thing. So I investigate further, and I went to Google, and I clicked on Google and Italian. Okay. So you can switch. If you go on your preferences in Google, you can say which languages you want to be able to search in. And so I clicked on Italian and I went back and I searched for Master Mirdino. And lo and behold, it was the number two result in the thing below, I think they're American importer. And so what that got me thinking is that probably what's happening is that for whatever reason, as as neat as it seems, the way that the translation is being coded is causing a problem for Google, where Google's not seeing that this is an English language site. And so, again, to me, this just illustrated the importance of of really not only testing your site in the language, but testing the entire experience, testing in Google, testing from social media, thinking about anything that somebody would do if they were in a country that speaks, you know, a language that you're looking to support, because clearly there are people in the US and the UK who'd be interested in masturbating your wines, for example, and so making sure they can find to your website is really important. One last thing while we're here. If you look at Alexander, Media, here, they translate to agency, which is just a weird term, and then average, which is just the wrong term for for this particular what media means. And so, again, having someone who who speaks the languages look at your site, they could they could be able to identify that in in two minutes, really easily. So that's important as well. Alright. So I think I've gone over my time. This has been a practical ways to improve your winery website. I hope it was helpful. I hope you got some stuff out of it. Thank you so much for listening for coming. I'll be here for questions right now, but please also email me. I got my email here, my socials, I'm most active on Twitter. I'm on swap card as well. If you have questions that you either don't wanna ask here, don't get a chance to ask here. Yeah, reach out. I'd love to chat about this kind of stuff and, go from there. Thanks so much. Thank you for that wonderful presentation. A couple of questions. If A winery is interested in redesigning their website. What questions should they be asking a potential developer? What characteristics should they be looking when they're gonna work alongside a developer, especially, you know, if you're you're not, well versed in this particular subject of of of of website design, what should you be looking for? Yeah. Good question. So I mean, as I said at the beginning, certainly, you know, trying to see that they're connected to research in some way is always really useful. I mean, you might not necessarily have a lot of budget for research on a winery redesign, but an understanding of of that of research and best practice is really important and really showing empathy for the customer. I think a lot of the examples I showed, especially when you're talking about, like, the flashy stuff, It tends to be the designer just kind of showing off their design skills as opposed to doing something with purpose. So it's really all about does this person understand the goals. And are they willing to design towards those goals? Mike, what I mean, have you had any interaction or or have you had, access to metrics, where it shows what are like the the number one or what are the few things that consumers complain or or what frustrates them the most when they go on to winery websites? Yeah. I mean, I tried to focus on things that that I've heard people say, today. And so that that was kind of kind of the genesis of of where I was coming from. Obviously, it's gonna be a little different for everyone. I think, it also depends on the site because some sites are purely informational. Other sites will have some sort of visit, like, wineries that have a hospitality component, you would think that, you know, you're gonna get a lot of people looking at that, and and if you can make a reservation or things like that, certainly in the States. That's a big part of it. And then if there's an e commerce, aspect as well, I didn't even get a chance to to dig into the e commerce side. So maybe next year we'll do a practical ways to improve your e commerce website. Got it. Got it. Under under under when when a winery is creating the website or when they're redesigning, Should they be? I mean, is there is it is it a mistake? Sometimes, because I see sometimes wineries. They have a a specific website, but it's only targeted to a specific audience. You know, it seems somewhat limited. And how can a winery kind of broaden their horizons to make sure it's inclusive to all, you know, demographics, populations. You know, if you're an Italian one, you can a lot of it and wineries the way they set it up. It's very targeted to very italian focus or it might even be somewhat Americanized, you know. How do you kinda keep it broad where it's inviting to all different cultures and different, populations? Sure. I mean, it's a it's a challenging question, obviously. Yep. You know, I think that having different options makes a lot of sense. I'm thinking back to this isn't, you know, the best example for what you're talking about. But I'm thinking back to when we talked about the wine groups and and the way that the wines were presented you know, showing all the lines, but then allowing people to narrow by particular things can be useful. And I noticed, I think it's Donna Fugata they were talking yesterday about their website and and I went there. And they have this, like I don't even know how to describe it, but it's kind of like a feeling. Like, they organize wines by feeling. Which is, you know, a little bit goofy, but, you know, actually kind of interesting as well. But what I like about is that they don't force you to use that. Right? They offer it if you want to choose that or you can just go a more traditional sense. So I think that when you're thinking about different cultures and different interests of people, offering different ways to maybe narrow down, you know, experience through what your wines are could potentially be a way that you could do that. Again, you know, allow them to start from from everything and then narrow down based on, you know, their particular interest. Before we go, Mike, we have a couple of questions, from the audience if I can ask them to you. One of them is, are there any specific examples of websites that you particularly like? So this is a difficult question for me to answer because of what I do and how it works and that I could probably go to any website and find something that I don't like about it. But at the same time, there are things that I do like. And I think I I showed, you know, a few examples through through the presentation of of Winers where I thought they were getting it right and doing it well. I think, you know, even that that Don, if we got an example that I just gave, was interesting. I I didn't spend a lot of time on their site. When I saw that yesterday, but I I thought it was intriguing the way that they were thinking about that. And so even going back to the Planeta example, you know, there's some really interesting ways that you can convey the experience of of what your brand is about. But we and and I love that video, as I said, of Sicily, but, you know, again, you just have to make sure you're doing it in the right ways. I guess this is somewhat, they kind of piggy backs off this question. But, I guess, are there any specific examples? This is from an, an audience member. Anything specific negative or positive that can impact the sales or grants or brand perception of the actual company. Any specific, negative or positive impacts that could affect the sales or brand perception or quality of the winery. That's the question. It's the the ultimate question. Right? Does the Super Bowl commercial help drive sales of Coke? I do you know, it's it's tricky. I'll give you just one example that I had, right, that I I I actually had to this was in the presentation, my original one. It was originally called ten practical ways, but I realized there was no way I would get through ten. But it was it was about having different vintages of wine. So, I bought an older wine, on a seller website. It was like a two thousand one. This was last year. And I went to the winery website. It was, in Qianti, Qianti Classicico, and they had the they had a vintage sheet for that particular wine. Told me all about the wine, what the vintage was like, everything. Right? And it was, you know, it was a little bit higher end wide. But that gave me such a great experience with that brand. I wanted to buy more from that brand because I knew that that that information was there, whereas I had a similar experience with another, actually, also in Keonazi Reserva, and I went to the site and it didn't have. It just had, like, generic information about the wine and nothing specific to vintage. So that's obviously an anecdote. Okay? It's not statistic and I don't have the statistic, but I think it's a a good example of like how you can you can cause someone to have a bad brand experience with you. And even though I can't necessarily quantify that, I can say that's probably not a good idea, right? But on the flip side, if you give someone a good experience, then the next time they're presented with an opportunity to buy your wine, you know, it's gonna be in the consideration set. So again, maybe not a quantifiable, answer there, but it is what it is. Well, this was very informative. I know for me as a business owner, this is really helpful because I know there's a lot that can be done with my website even though it's a restaurant, but I think, you know, they This is very applicable too for other businesses as well. So, Mike Mendo, you you need to do like a a couple of sessions of this because they're they're, you know, maybe, you know, you did your eight topics. Each one has its own specific webinar, but this is really helpful. You're really wonderful. I learned a lot, and I know everyone else, learned a lot. Looks like there's one last question that I'll just just jump to here. It says, do you suggest putting e commerce on a second level domain? I I, so going back to what we were talking about, I think that sometimes that's practical from a technology standpoint to have them be separate, but I think from a consumer standpoint, having it seem as seamless as possible, seem as seamless. For those of you listening in English. That sounded weird. So, you know, so so I think that working anything you can do to make it seem like they work together and and actually having them work together is really crucial when you're doing that. That but I think it's fine if, technically, it makes sense to have them separate. So hopefully that answers your question. So thank you for the kind words, Yani, appreciate that. And, thank you everyone for coming. Thank you. Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful session. Thank you, everyone. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Italian wine podcast, brought to you by Vineethally international wine and spirits exhibition. The biggest drinks trade fair in the world. Save the date. The next edition of Vineet League will be held the second through the fifth of April two thousand and twenty three. Remember to subscribe to Italian wine podcast and catch us on SoundCloud, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Jean chain. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.