Ep. 996 How Content Influences Online And Offline Retail | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two PM central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. So good afternoon. Thank you for very much for the invitation. I'm a Masimiliano, the winemaker of Apolonia, winery Pulia. I am, the president of the tourism, of Pulia of the winery before start. What is that? What is that? What is that? What is that? Well, we meant to do is model Vina. Yeah. There isn't a translation. Before starting, please, let me, congratulate to Steve Kim, all the staff because wine to wine is, became a really perfect. I'm very pleasure to introduce, Chris Barnner of a grape, collective in New York, publishing business that connect great wine writers and wine stories with every level of wine enthusiasts and helps facilities, wine buying. Chris, we speak about our content in France online, on fly retail, topic, really of a great importance, especially of a great relevance in this moment, welcome Chris. I leave you the word. Thank you. Thank you very much. So I'm here to talk about, content and commerce. And storytelling. Storytelling is an important part of the human condition. Does anybody know what this is? It's a fresco. Does anyone know where it's from? Pompeii. Exactly. It's exactly it's from Pompeii. Yeah. So it's a couple who have just gotten married. He's a baker, and that's his wife. And they've just moved into a new home. So they decided to paint a a fresco on their wall to show off to all of their friends. So in fact, this is the the first real selfie And, you can see he's holding a scroll in his hand. And does anybody know what she's holding? No. It's, it's a wax tablet and a stylus, and the scroll was the expensive form of communication in ancient Rome. So the the subject matter came from, Egypt. So if you were using a scroll, it had to be something that was very important. And the wax tablet was the the most used communication device in ancient Rome. So what would happen is let's call her Olivia. So Olivia, she goes out late. She has a few drinks. She wakes up the next morning. She wants to gossip. So she brings her scroll out. I mean, her wax tablet. And she writes to her friend, and she says, o m g. Did you see drusilla last night? She was, all over Augusta. And she hands it to her servant. Her servant runs over to, her friend's house, her friend looks at it. She laughs. She writes at the bottom of it. LOL. And I knew that, sneaky Augusta was, making his way around. And she takes the the wax tablet, and she gives it to the servant who takes it to another friend, and then it gets back to, it gets back to Olivia. So what does this remind you of? It's kind of like the tablet is WhatsApp, and the, servant is broadband. Right? So the conditions that we live in right now are actually very similar to what is going on with humankind for for many, many years. What does this look like? It looks like an iPad. Right? It's almost exactly the same size as an iPad. Well, this is this is the wax tablet. Okay. Here we go. So now I wanna go back to ancient Greece and talk about Plato's cave or really a bastardizer my bastardization of Plato's cave. So the way that Plato's cave works more or less is that the enlightened pe the unenlightened people were chained to the back of the cave, and there was a fire, and there were, storytelling things that were transmitted on the wall, and people were living in this sort of, sense of unenlightenment because they were stuck back here. And to be enlightened, you had to go outside, and you had to see the sun. So the sun was, like, the pinnacle of enlightenment. And you had to work your way through the cave to become enlightened. And I think of this this this parable of the cave in in the wine world in that if you think of the ideal customer experience in wine, for me, it's a customer is walking through a vineyard in Tuscany with a winemaker on a beautiful day. It's a beautiful blue sky. The winemaker is talking about the the soil, the family history, the grapes, they're putting a few grapes in their mouths. The it's this sort of transcendent experience, and then they go back and they taste the wine. And then they get to the winery, and it continues. But when that person goes back to New York or Toronto or wherever they're from, that experience lives with them forever. Whenever they try that wine, that's gonna come back to them. They're gonna think of that. That is the enlightened experience in terms of Plato's cave. And the unenlightened experience, the shadows on the wall, is the wine shop. And somebody goes in there. They're like, I'd like wine. And there's this entire wall of wine. The bottles look the same. Like, you have to take somebody from the unenlightened to the enlightened, to that great experience. Right? And that's what storytelling does. Thank you for listening to Italian wine podcast. We know there are many of you listening out there, so we just want to interrupt for a small ask. Italian wine podcast is in the running for an award. The best podcast listening platform through the podcast awards, the people's choice. Lister nominations is from July first to the thirty first, and we would really appreciate your vote. We are hoping our listeners will come through for us. So if you have a second and could do this small thing for us, just head to Italian wine podcast dot com from July first to the thirty first and click the link. We thank you and back to the show. So I just wanted to say one thing before we talk specifically about the storytelling is that storytelling is not easy. It requires a fair amount of work. There's a lot of costs involved. There's time involved. People who work in wine shops are not paid like doctors and lawyers. So they've gotta they've gotta communicate some fairly complex concepts and that is not easy. And retail is not easy. So you're having to do this within an environment where, the internet is made, wine, a commodified price thing so people will look up and They know that this is selling over there for two dollars less. And so it's hurting margins. There's price sensitivity. The cost of goods is going up. It's it's a difficult environment to commit to storytelling. But here's why storytelling is important. Storytelling creates experiences, and it helps your business create relationships with consumers. Which is very important. And yesterday, Robert talks about celebrity wines and how people buy because of their heart. And in my mind storytelling does a similar thing. It creates experiences that transcend the the just the purchasing, aspect of of wine and going into a wine store. And I'm I'm talking about two things in in specific. One is, social currency, which means that let's say Jane is at a party, and she brought a nice bottle of bread from Leguriya. And she's talking to Bob, and she tells Bob, so Bob, this wine comes from Legurias made by this guy, Paolo Ruffino, And Paolo's winery Puntacranet, they saved this grape Provino from extinction. And Bob's like, wow. She knows a lot about wine. She's really smart. Right? Bob then takes that story and tells it to someone else later in the party. That's social currency. You're you're you're gaining, a level of expertise and people look up to you. Next, we talk about, personal esteem and self actualization. And an easy way to think about that is a good wine gets better, the more you know about it. So if you try a wine and you know where it's made and who's making it, it's a better wine. You enjoy it more, and it's a a more fulfilling experience. And then there's also some, I think, what I consider, like, technical aspects of how content can help you, which is, it gives you visibility both online and offline. It creates referrals, and it helps with SEO. So if you're creating content, about a specific winemaker, you're gonna rank higher than you would if you were just a a store selling a bottle. Right? I think that most people would understand that. It helps to generate leads, It improves your conversions, and it lowers your cost of acquisition. So content is king. The distribution is queen, and she wears the pants. I think that's a nice quote. In advertising, there's an expression that you can, have the biggest billboard in the world, but if it's stuck in the middle of the desert, it doesn't do you any good. So distribution is very, very important as it relates to, to content. And I'm just outlining a few areas that will go into a little bit more detail. The photo is a a shop which I think does this, fabulously, which is Noble Rat in London that most of you probably know, but they've created this wine scene. And it just it it has built a level of authority If you're a wine person and you're in London, you're probably gonna go to Noble Rat, and it's an extremely high quality, product as well. It's really very good if you've not read it. I I would recommend it. So oral design, physical digital, third party articles, by a PR or, organic, paid advertising, events, classes, and nontraditional. So shadows in the cave, oral storytelling. So for me, oral storytelling is probably the traditional way that most wine shops work. And you got into a store, you asked them for wine. A bad store says, well, we got this one for twelve and this one for thirty. Right? A great store, a store like Chambers Street in New York, which which I'm very fond of, and I'm sure everybody has their favorite stores. The people know every wine. They know the stories behind the wine. They know the qualities. They can they can really give you tremendous advice, and and they love it. You ask them. They're excited. They're passionate. That's oral storytelling. But it is not easy because, again, we come back to the fact that these people who are working in these shops, are not the most highly paid people. So it requires a lot of training, a lot of education, and a lot of process in order to do that well. Shadows in the cave design. So design is a is an element that I think is under used in, in most wine experiences, both online and offline. This is a restaurant in Khan. And I went there. I was pretty blown away by the quality of these photographs. You know when you go in there and you see these pictures of winemakers that they have an authority, that they have a relationship with the winemakers that they care, and you know that the list has been thoughtfully curated. A picture is worth, ten thousand words. So, photography can help, make complex ideas simple. And here's another example. This is a hedonism in London. They have some fabulous design aspects. This is a a one room where it's it's almost like a museum and you come out of there and and it's something you you will tell other people about one of their cars. You know, things like touch points like delivery vans, I think, are interesting because most people don't pay any attention to it. But it's a part of your brand, and it's a way that you can use visual storytelling, to enhance your business. This was a store I visited Burlington Vermont, and I was, like, blown away with this shelf talker. I mean, the shelf talker is such an important thing because you go in there, and most people is just a name and a price. Right? But for six hundred skews, they created this level of detail, which has to be done in indesign. So imagine the amount of new skills you're getting in every week and having to do that, the body, tan, and acidity, the farming practices, what it pairs with. You know, the there's a level of care that takes it to the next level. And window design. So Windows, you have great department stores that spend a lot of time on windows. I was thinking about my window. I'm like, how can we create something ridiculous? Just like fun, exciting, dynamic, I'm like, okay. We're gonna build a volcano in the window and put a train around it. And everybody thought it was a little bit of a dumb idea, except for me, but I make the decision so I did it anyway. And I have to say it's like it has created such a great space. People walk by. They talk about it. They come in. We have a a photography about other volcanic regions. We've got a TV that plays a loop of Mount Aetna exploding. We've got volcanic wine books for sale. We've got, olive oil from volcanic regions, honey from volcanic regions, We have a piece of volcanic soil that people can pick up and hold, and we have, of course, most importantly, volcanic wine. So they come in and people are connecting the idea that wine is from a place. Right? And that's, for me, very important. And that's my dog. So here are some other visual things that we did in the store that I I think are interesting. Here's a displayed soil. Again, wine is from a place, so you can see soil from Lebanon. From the Loire Valley, from Bordeaux, from Tuscany, from, Croatia. We have a display on Tuscany, so we've created a a magazine that they can take with them. That's four color and nice with photos, photographs of tuscan winemakers, quotes, maps. You know, it's just an idea of creating a an immersive experience in a physical space. And lastly, A very important part of terroir is the people. Right? So these are all, signed polaroids that we have in a little area that people can look at. And again, it's a fun way of communicating visually. So talking about touch points, the bags that people have, most you go to most wine stores and they're like brown or hopefully not plastic bags that that look very uninteresting. But this is a key point of communication with customers. Right? They take the bag, they go home, they take the the bottle out of the bag. And if you have interesting bags, then it helps you in your storytelling journey. So with our bags, we have, a third, which I haven't photographed here, but there's, cool illustrations with wine pairing recommendations on the bag, and secondly, one with, old maps of wine regions. The sandwich board is another fun thing. You know, it's a it's a point of contact with your customers working where you can really do something fun. So instead of just putting open, you know, nine to five, you have a fun quote or something funny. So when people walk by, it gives them a chuckle. It brightens the day. They take a photo. They instagram it. You know, it's it's a lively thing. Here's a fun wine store that had, I think, a cool thing with a with a car in it. Which, you know, is just visually very compelling. And this is, a video. So video combines both oral storytelling and photography. Right? And talking about getting closer to the front of the cave. So this is, Nicholas, and he's in, the VAR, which is an island in Croatia. And if you don't know that this wine is from there, you have no idea that it's built on these almost vertical slopes, that these are gnarly old vines. Right? But if you watch this two minute video and you see, you hear the story, this incredible story of the family, You get an understanding, and it gives you context, and we go back to the point of social currency and self actualization. Right? It's a very interesting tool to get you closer to the front of Plato's cave. And again, it's, you know, I don't have to say, but, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook stories, in store video. I mean, there's a ton of valuable places that you can use video. Social media, I don't have to tell anybody social media is important. What I would say is focused on on channel and audience. So make sure that you're delivering meaningful experiences that are contextually relevant. You know, and and in some cases, be inspirational. Everybody's everybody's gotta be a little inspirational. Right? It's only part of the toolbox, though. You have to practice, good SEO And in my mind, targeted media, paid media is very important as well, with regards to, Facebook. For example, if you if you have a large following on Facebook, very few people are gonna see your post unless you pay mister Zuckerberg, because he he likes to get paid. But, you know, it's it's it's important. And then tastings. Virtual, both virtual and in person tastings are important. So the tasting is the traditional way of, experiencing wine in a retail environment. And we thought about, like, well, how can you make that more interesting? How can you get closer to the front of Plato's cave? And we started working with three sixty video. So you put the goggles on, and you hear Nicola talk about his family, and you can see the virtually steep slope that these are made on, you can see the gnarly vines, and you can move your head around and really experience this. And then you you take the goggles off, and you can taste the wine, you feel a piece of soil from that vineyard, you get a handout to go with you. You can look at photographs. You're creating an experience that again takes you closer to the front of Plato's cave. Partnerships, marketing partnerships, though, for example, I work closely with, a group in New York that does PR for new condo developments. And whenever they have a new building, they do an event And rather than just say, come to our event, we create programming for them. So here's a book we did on, Chilean Wines, with, Jonathan, who is a Chilean Sommelier at one of the most expensive restaurants in the world. And everybody got a copy of the book. Everybody walks around the apartments. We sold wine. We made relationships. The, you know, the Chilean wine industry benefited because these stories were told so there are creative ways to create experiences, and, again, take people closer to the front of the cave. So other types of authoritative content, books, online and offline magazines, blogs. Here's a cool one, Berry Brothers. You buy a mixed case of burgundy, and you get this, like, cool book. You know? It's just a fun way of educating people, creating brand loyalty, podcasts, handouts, movies, and classes are important, you know. I opened my second store in a town in Montclair, New Jersey, where there is, a shop that does WSTT classes. And for me, that's great because you have a whole community of educated people that you know, you don't have to start from the basics with. And the more education you do, the closer you can take people to the front of the to the cave. Another benefit of storytelling is helping your employees. As we mentioned before, once your employees are not paid, like, doctors or lawyers, so the more you can do for them, the better off you are in creating loyalty in hiring good people and retaining good people, creating a learning culture. So this is Marco. Marco, worked for me in New York for a number of years while he was doing his master's degree at Columbia. He used to his family is from Southern Italy, and, here, he is on a press trip. Right now, Marco is in Calabrio actually making wine that he is gonna be bottling and selling in New York in great collective, but also in restaurants and and other areas. And I'll tell you when Marco talks to a a a customer about Italian wine, Like, he's excited. You know, he's passionate. I mean, those people are getting closer to the front of the cave by talking to Marco. So the more we can do to find Marcos and keep them happy, the better we are, I think, as as an industry. So lastly, I'm gonna talk a little bit about tactics. Quality and authenticity for me are the most important things in creating content. Human personal relevant stories. You can trace clicks, and it might work in the short term. But for me, it's not a long term strategy because you're not building trust. You're not building a relationship with your, with your consumer or or your follower. This is Dorothy Gator. Dorothy writes alongside her husband, John Brecker for for grip collective every other week. In my mind, she's one of the great wine journalists of all times. She is a great storyteller. She's a fabulous person. And and I love this photo of her with Warren Winniearski, who's one of the legends of California wine. It just shows, a warmth, you know, a a great quality. Creating content is a long game. It's it's it's not easy, and you're not gonna fix it. You're not gonna solve it quickly. So you have to think that you're gonna it's gonna take time and there's gonna be a process of learning and making mistakes, and people wanna be educated and, not pitched. So, lastly, embrace great storytelling. I I love this quote from the CEO of Red Bull brands need to take the phrase acting like publishers literally. Always tell tell stories before price, adapt the story to the channel, know your audience, published on a regular basis, publish content from a number of people. If it's just one person doing it, it kind of it loses steam. It doesn't look like you're authoritative and covering a unique variety of topics. So just don't focus on one thing, but but give people a little bit of choice and don't get blinded by tech. So when I first started great collective, the whole idea of creating an experiential store was like, we need to do cool stuff, you know, and I was very focused on the idea of using QR codes. So every bottle had some kind of story that you could put the phone up to, and something would pop up a video or an article or something. And the closer I got to it, I'm like, you know, people don't use QR because I'm not gonna do it. We have to find another solution. So You have to think about tech in a very smart way. Ninety nine crimes with their their whole hologram program. I think it's very smart for what they do. You know, they make a very commercial wine. Does that tech make sense for a a small family winery. I don't know. But you should whatever tech you use, I think you need to stay true to the values of your product and be creative in the execution And lastly, I would say try things. You know, we've tried a ton of things that we've done terribly at, and we just keep trying new things. So we've made some really bad books, but they're done. I'm making documentaries now. They may be good. They may not. We'll see. Time will tell. And, that's it. That's all I got. K. So your moderator bailed. Because he had a, plane to catch. Yes. I know. He he mentioned that. Alright. So I I told him I was gonna shame him when he walked out. Yes. I'm going to he, like, you know, give me a kiss and then he left, which meant, like, I'm gone. Yeah. Okay. So I'm taking over. Alright. Alright. Matthew. Question. Yep. Check. Nice presentation. Didn't have to break out the bananas or tomatoes. So nice work. Thank you, Matthew. I have a question. How do you define a story, especially in wine? That's a good question. Great question. Great question. Yeah. That that that's a good question. You know, I think there's no perfect answer to that. But for me, the whole thing that you need to be thinking about is how can I make people's lives better? You know? How can I communicate something about my product that will enrich their lives in some way? And, you know, not I don't it's not about selling somebody, but it's about making them have a greater experience and at the same time, bringing yourself up, you know? But but for me, the most important thing in in the process of communicating is, like, elevating the person or group that you're trying to communicate with? I'm just curious going off of what Matthew asked, to flip this on its head because a lot of what you were talking about was action you can take as a as a seller. When I'm talking to my producers, what actions can I give them? Like, what pillars of the story would help you to take your actions? A lot of producers come to me and they say, you know, we we're the twenty ninth generation blah blah blah, but what I want to help them focus with is what is the pillar of their story? What can I give you who are then you're gonna take these actions? That that's a great question. And I I wish more people ask that question. So for me, it's how do you create markers? You know? Like, that's the How do you create advocates like that of of your your wine or your region? There's no easy way to do it because it's expensive to travel for sure. It's expensive to create collateral. But certainly market visits are in in my mind important. The more you can get a winemaker in front of a group of people, the better, the more you can communicate that. Secondly, I don't wanna be mean, but most wine salespeople are not very thoughtful about the way that they represent their brands. They they wanna sell the wine. They wanna get out. They wanna go home. You know? So helping educate wine salespeople, giving them tools whether it's, a magazine that they can hand out to someone, a video that they can share via email, but it's creating touch points. And it's not just doing it once, you know, it's creating a whole series of touch points. Like, you know, if Bob is the salesperson, David bowler, for example, you know, like, how do we communicate things with Bob on a regular basis that he can then forward to his clients. And, hopefully, if they're forwarding it to me, I'm like, you know what? They took a lot of time doing that. I'm gonna forward this to the rest of my team. And secondly, when you're doing tastings, You know, how do you, like, a big tasting? Like, David bowler has a big tasting. There's a lot of people there. You get palate fatigue very early. Right? It's hard to remember many times what you liked or you didn't like. How do you create an experience at those tastings that get you closer to the front of the cave? You know, a lot of people bring bring soil. It may be a little cliche, but I still think it's a good idea. You know? Magazines, handouts, things that things that show that you care and are being thoughtful about educating and helping. Yeah. So we're going to take Shawan, and then we'll take Renee in the back. Thank you, Steve. So, yeah, I have a question regarding to, like, I really enjoyed the presentation. There's a lot of video parts you're doing to communicate once. So I have a question regarding to how do you provoke, like, the sensory like, in terms of how to con communicate with consumers about aromas and flavors of the one besides, like, they open the bottle and taste, like, how to communicate through content. Yeah. That's a great question. And I think for me, you know, we we struggle a little bit with it for sure. And it's something that that is on my list of things that we need to do better. Like, I wanna get to the point where I'm like the people in Vermont, and I have something that good. I do have detailed descriptions of every single wine that we sell in the store, but it is not presented that well, and it's not at that level of detail. But we need to create content for each individual wine. We taste with our team, you know, and it's about communicating the values of each interval each individual line with your team and making sure that they know what's in the bottle, who's making it, what the flavor pro profile is, what kind of things to compare with. And There's just no easy way of doing that than just, like, really focusing on education, which I think is just very important. Yeah. Renee? Thank you. Thank you, Christopher. This was a wonderful presentation. I thought it was really interesting to look at from the retailer's perspective. My question is, a lot of it did focus on getting people to be interactive in the store and putting all your content towards getting those customers. Once you have those customers, is there any content points that you can create that are specifically to keep them those loyal customers forever. Maybe it's different. It's like, how would you go about that? Sure. Yeah. No. That's a great question. And I think what we try to do is we we produce an online wine magazine So for example, when somebody's checking out, it used pre COVID. We used to have handouts for every single wine that we sold or at least I'd say ninety percent of them. So there would be a two page thing with information on who the winemaker was, what the soil was, you know, what the profile of the wine was, and some kind of narrative or interview or something about the the region, the history of the winemaker, so trying to create that document, which is like the so social currency document that they could then take home with them. And there would be a QR code on it that they could snap with their phone, and then they would get, like, more information. Right? So that's one way is continually giving them more. Like, every time we do something, it's like, how do we give more to the customer? Like, that's the whole ethos. And if you if you make their lives better, you'll have loyal people. So so that's what we try to do both online, which is incredibly important. And I didn't I I touched a lot more on the physical pieces today, but but the online piece is equally as important in terms of creating valuable content and things that they can look and refer to. Yeah. Any more questions? So how much time are you in terms of resources are you dedicating to content building? Because it's, I mean, those are pretty detailed for every damn line. Have a two page, you know, information, infosheet, as well as everything else. So it's it's difficult. There's no question about it. And when I looked at the the shelf talker from Vermont, I was like, I spent five minutes talking to the guy. I'm like, I just have to, you know, bow down to you because this is the best I've ever seen. You guys are great. I'd say one thing that we do well is that we encourage everybody to write for the site. So every single person that works for us contributes in some way to creating content. They're either editing content, filming, or, editing video, or they're they're they're writing for, for the blog. You know, we have, We have people going on press trips all the time to different regions. There there's, I think, at least one person on a press trip right now. So we encourage them to create their own content. And by doing that, they become advocates for that winery when they're talking to their colleagues as well as customers. So it's like trying to build an army of Marcos, you know? And and I say I have a a sales staff, but I also have a content team of ten people that are working for me on a weekly basis. So it's not easy, but we we do our best. Yeah. I mean, I feel like the customers that come to your shop I mean, I you have to if you guys ever in New York, you should check it out other than the the train track I hadn't seen because that's something that was post pandemic. Yeah. But it is definitely a, a boutique highly specialized, personalized type of wine retailer. So I feel like the customers that come into your shop are already kind of the targeted. Do you already have, like, the first screening of the more interested the more knowledgeable type of or more socially conscious, a type of audience. Is is that correct? I mean, we have everybody that wants to come in and pick up a twelve dollars, suddenly unblanc. To people that wanna talk about Jiraz wines for for two hours. You know, I mean, we we have the gamut. But we definitely do attract people that care about wine, that wanna talk about wine, that are interested in wine, And, you know, when I'd say when we were doing these handouts, pre pandemic, we were offering them to each individual person when they were checking out, probably ninety percent of the people took them, you know? Now out of that ninety, how many of them actually read them? Like, I I couldn't tell you, but, like, even if thirty percent of them read them, like, that's pretty good. You know, if thirty percent of the people can tell the the Paulo Rufina Punta Krena story to their neighbor, you know, like, that's a good day. Right? Okay. I think if there aren't any more questions, I'm going to close-up the room. Oh, wait. One more question from online. So the question is from Sander, Chris, are really most customers ready to get so much content about wine to educate. So I would say you have different types of customers for sure, you know, but because there is so many lively elements in the store, even the people that are, like, the luddites that just want twelve dollars Sony on Blanc, like, eventually, over time, because of the enthusiasm of the staff, because of the design elements, because of all the careful thought that goes into things, you can move people towards the front of the cave. Yeah. But, of course, there are people that they just don't care. They want something cheap and they wanna go. But, You know, there there are a lot of people that started out with very little knowledge that they've, you know, you see a curve, and they become more interested and excited about it. And that and that's fun. That's a fun part of doing it for sure. Well, I think, Chris, response was incredibly generous. I like, a lot of New Yorkers, I think, even Steve Ray, I see him in the back. They present these things to you. The this wealth of information and kinda glied over a lot of the facts. And and the rationale behind it. But if I would highly recommend for you to go back and go through his slides because each one of those slides were incredibly generous with, information. And thoughtful insights. So thank you very much for that, Chris Barnes. Like, let's give it up for Chris Barnes. We have last session. Do you know this gentleman in in the front row, by the way? I feel like he's he's a spy or he's your biggest fan club. He's taking notes and everything. Thank you for coming. And, I we will be back, I think, in half an hour. What I would do is this. It's our last session. So if you grab a glass of wine, I don't know if we still have wine back then. Then you can bring it back to the last session for the last class. Okay? Alright. See you guys back in at five PM. So grab a glass and come back for the Monopoly session. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at the Italy international dot com for courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast, and catch us on Soundflower, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. 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