Ep. 2145 The influencer marketing playbook | wine2wine Business Forum 2023

Some of the feedback that we got rightfully so was now what? How do we implement all of the things? Like, we're we're bought in. We agree. We wanna do TikTok. We wanna do Instagram. We wanna work with influencers. Now what do we do? And so that's what we're really here to talk about today is the hows of social media and influencer marketing. So we're gonna be going through some best practices using our self created marketing playbook official media partner, the Italian One podcast is delighted to present a series of interviews and highlights from the twenty twenty three one to one business form, featuring Italian wine producers and bringing together some of the most influential voices in the sector to discuss the hottest topics facing the industry today. Don't forget to tune in every Thursday at three PM or visit the Italian Wine podcast dot com for more information. Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to, the last session of wine to wine. Thanks for sticking around and hanging out with us. Yes. A round of applause for sticking around. My name is Amanda McCrosson. I've got Christian Ritzel with me. We had the privilege of being here last year to talk about social media separately. And this year, we get to come together because our respective topics last year really covered the whys of social media. So I focused on TikTok where I have my content creation platform as well as on on Instagram, and Kristen really covered the whys of digital marketing and social media and why we should all be doing that. And some of the feedback that we got, rightfully so, was now what? How do we implement all of the things? Like, we're we're bought in. We agree. We wanna do TikTok. We wanna do Instagram. We wanna work with influencers. Now what do we do? And so that's what we're really here to talk about today is the howls of social media and influencer marketing. So we're gonna be going through some best practices using our self rated marketing playbook. So the influencer marketing playbook with, five easy steps to get you guys all there. I'm really excited to talk about this. I think these are all questions that I've been posed personally. I'm sure Kristin's been posed personally. And, as I mentioned, I am a content creator. My background is as a Sommelier. I used to work at Press restaurant in Napa Valley where I was the wine director and Psalm there for five years and took my full time career to content creation in twenty twenty. So I built up my platforms across TikTok YouTube and Instagram and now do this full time creating content both on my platforms and then, also working with clients like regional associations, wineries, retail shops, things like that. And Kristen is the other blonde. That's right. So, yeah, I run pretty much communications and all things digital at Jackson Family wines. For those that aren't familiar, we're still a family owned winery. We only deal in wine, and we have about fifty wineries worldwide now, and we're in eight countries across five continents. So we're definitely playing in a lot of places. I think a lot of what we're focused on in this conversation probably has more skewed towards a US audience. That's what we deal within probably ninety percent of, where we play with influencers, but we've absolutely done programs with international as well. And I follow the same principles. And sort of ask myself the right questions. So this will apply pretty much to any influencer strategy regardless of where you are. There's things just like audience and what consumers are looking for that will differ from country to country. But I had I might start in the tech industry on the agency side I've joined my started my career before social media was even a thing. So, I was a very curious person. I raised my hand a lot, and I started helping build digital programs within the wine industry and felt like I had something to tribute, because I saw all these other CPG companies doing things that were really fun and digital, and I saw the wine industry not. And so I have had a wonderful career for the last eleven years at Jackson family wines, and they have put a lot of trust in me to oversee literally everything digital, and influencer marketing kind of is that nice in between of PR and digital marketing, which thankfully I manage both. But yeah. So I think we're gonna just jump into the platform or jump into the presentation. So I hope this last year and this year, I preface this by saying, I hope I never have to really convince anyone of influencer marketing again. I think we should be beyond that. Maybe certain programs don't make sense for your brand, but I think there's absolutely a place for influencer marketing in the wine industry and within your brand's marketing plan. We have it across most of our wineries. Influencer marketing plays a really critical role in our consumer campaigns. And so the one thing I always like to tell people is you have to look at the influencer community as a media community. And so it's a place with a very specific audience. There's independent voices, much like bloggers back in the day when they were kind of on the rise. A lot of people saw this niche in the media that they found really valuable. I see that with influencers every single day, be it wine influencers or lifestyle influencers? I think they have this loyal following. People do not choose to follow or choose to read if they do not believe in the content that this person's putting out. And they think that they build they build credibility on their own through their content, and they also build that trust. So when product recommendations or product kind of show up in that space, that credibility and trust is already built with the influencer. So you as a brand don't actually have to do that heavy lifting, and I think that's where you can really unlock opportunity, with consumer audiences that are interested in hearing about products from these influencers. So this is our agenda. Basically, what we feel like we decided to really sink into what are the main things that we think about, and we actually came together on this because it felt like if I was up here speaking for influencers, that wouldn't be probably a good idea. If she was up here speaking on behalf of wineries, probably not the idea. So that's why we joined forces, and we actually found the same way she approaches working with a brand, the same way I kind of teach myself and my teams to approach working with influencers. And it's establishing goals, thinking about the investment, studying your partners, collaboration, with ease is always the best and then leveraging the content. And so we're gonna dive deep into each of these and really give you what we like to call our playbook or handbook of how we really approach our relationships and what we do and how we use it and how we leverage it long term. Perfect. So as Kristen said, I think we are definitely coming at it from two different angles because I think it's helpful to know what each other wants. And at the end of the day, the most important thing that you have to know is what do you want to get out of this? Why are we doing this in the first place? Why are we working with an influencer? One of the things that I run into a lot as an influencer as as someone that people wanna work with is a lack of direction, you know, an unknowing of why what they wanna get out of it. And so my first question people is always What do you want me to do? What do you hope to achieve out of this partnership? Is it sales? Is it awareness? Is it driving to the winery? So clear directives are huge. And establishing your goals is also very important. For me, how I decide to work with a winery, there's a few different things that I'm considering, and I think it's helpful for winery's potential partners to know what those are. As an FYI, I did survey a few of my colleagues who do the same thing that I do, which is full time wine influenced or at least part time. So I aggregate a little bit of information from them as well as as far as what they wanted. Of course, the first thing is the financial benefit. Most of us are doing this for money. This is a transactional thing that we're working between the influencer and the winery partner, but that's actually not always the most important consideration. Of course, we wanna check at the end of the day, but one of the other main considerations is does this raise or, improve my brand's value? So I'm looking to see if the brand that I'm working with is going to add a different color to what I've I'm I'm already putting out there. At a minimum, I would love it to just, you know, kind of be on the same level, really align with me and my core values, but I'd also love it for it to raise my perspective as well. And then the other thing that I think is the most important, probably more important than any of the other two is the value add for my audience. Is this product or is this thing that I'm talking about going to be valuable to the people that I'm speaking to, meaning are they is there a takeaway that they can get from this? Is this an event or an experience that I think that will behoove them? Is this a product that will behoove them that will resonate with them? And then, of course, clear directive and realistic expectation patience. These are things that I'm looking for out of winery partners really knowing what your clear goals are and being realistic about what you want the outcome to be. I would love to deliver all of the wine sales to you. I would love to do that, but we have to be realistic about what's actually gonna happen. So when we first start to consider working with each other, those are things that I'm considering as well as am I going to be able to retain my own autonomy and personality within this partnership? And so those things can sort of be gauged within the first few exchanges or exchange between And I think one of the the ways that we do that is if the winery approaches me, I often love to see when they send me examples of work that I've done before that really resonates with them, that tells me one that they've done their research, which we're gonna talk about in a second. And two, it also gives me an idea of what they're out her. So those are really important for me. And I know for the wineries, you guys have, a few different expectations or goals that, allow you to figure out who you're gonna be working with. Oh, yes. I think it's interesting. This topic came up. I think Dan brought it up in his presentation. We the word ROI gets thrown around a lot in presentations like this, most likely because your owner or your CEO or someone is asking you, your boss is asking you, like, what's the ROI? Influencer marketing. I think it's very important to note that ROI is more than financial ROI. There's ROI can be reach engagement. You know, looking at all those metrics that we measure for digital marketing campaigns. I mean, likes shares, comments, those are all things that have a brand awareness opportunity. And we believe very strongly in top funnel campaigns, we believe brand awareness does lead people to the product, and you just have to make sure you have a pathway for the consumer to find your product. One of the things I always like to challenge my team with is like, grieve, if you're gonna create all this content, you're gonna work with these people or do a media campaign, do a print campaign, whatever it may be, If the goal is brand awareness, what market are you doing with it? And and they're like, oh, I can do Indiana. Don't know why I chose Indiana, but we don't have any product there. It's kind of a waste of time. Right? So think about your influencer. Too. So I think that's kinda one thing I like to talk about. Like, ROI, brand awareness to us is a pathway to sales. Can you directly correlate it? No. But it absolutely impacts that. Marketing is an investment. It's not just a cost. And I know, like, my CFO calls at a cost in every quarterly meeting. But I'm, like, you mean the investment we're making in our brand equity long term, so people become aware of our product and then buy it from that lovely restaurant placement and that wonderful retail shelf that our sales team works so hard to get it on. That's the kind of mindset we have to have. So ROI can be things like building awareness. That's a big reason we work with a lot of influencers like going back to that built in audience, trusted, credible voice. They're doing a lot of the heavy lifting for us. Driving traffic, this could be on-site or online. So maybe you're trying to increase tasting room visitation. You're just trying to increase, you know, visitation to Sonoma County. Maybe it's, like, to your region if you have a winery in Italy. Like, you're just trying to create more regional awareness the influencers are great for that. They seem their third party and they're credible. I always say boosting sales is great. We do conversion campaigns with influencers as well. Their audience is used to being sold to. So those are considerations we're gonna talk to a little bit when vetting your partner. The goal is really important to establish because, like, even Amanda said, if you I don't know what you want, like, I don't even know if I'm a good partner for you. The last one is the engagement thing. I think that we're gonna get into it a little bit, but, like, you have to own that engagement as much as influencer. So, like, being a part of that post engaging with the content, you should always, community management is a very important thing. A lot of wineries sort of forget to do on a daily basis, but it's critically important to your success, and then content creation. Winery spend thousands of dollars a year on photographers, videographers, video editing, photo editing, and I think it's really important to understand that creators do that for you. And a lot of times you can utilize that content, for your own platform. And sometimes I'll have them create twenty five pieces of content. We only collaborate on two, but then I do get usage rights to the rest of it, and it benefits a party for long term. So they're very talented at creating content. There's a lot of ways to work with us. Yeah. So but goals. Right? Like, know what your goal is. Like, what are you trying to accomplish? Because if you don't know that, then you got some other works too. You gotta go back to the marketing plan. Because the influencer's not gonna do it for you. And you actually probably don't want them to because they're gonna do what they think is good for them. Which is fine. Yeah. Yes. So we can talk a little bit about investment. So Amanda told you, Most influencers do require some financial support to work with them. Are there influencers? Compensation. Compensation. Financial support, you know, however you want. So compensation. So it's like contracting a photographer. Contracting a videographer contracting a any type of creative person. Very important after you establish your goal, like, do you have a budget? If the answer is no, be upfront about that. If you do have a budget that's very set, let them know that as well. And then sometimes you can work sometimes you may be way too low for them, and that's okay. Maybe some budget will come around the next time. But, like, just be upfront about your budget, but most importantly, like, know your budget. And know that for the most part, if you're working with established creators and influencers, they're probably gonna require a budget to do work. And I know Amanda's gonna get into a little bit of the why. And then the consumer audience, I think We I have put the consumer first. I jokingly have this poster in my, office from a very old movie called Tron, and it says I fight for the users. The users to mirror the consumer. Everything I put in front of myself, I think is this going to resonate with my current consumer or the consumer that I'm trying to reach, retain, and convert? So you have to really think about that. So your audience has to match their audience. And I get this question a lot from influencers over, like, what is your brand's demographics? Right? And then if I tell them, like, this is my brand's demographic, but this is the growth audience that we're trying to reach, they also know their demographic. So sometimes they're trying to evaluate, like, is this really a fit for me? So know your target consumer, and then part of the vetting process will also be, like, is this influencer's audience, the right audience for my brand? Knowing what my goals are. Well, and on your going back to your budget for a second, I think one of this is a this is a big topic. Right? Because I think a lot of wineries and partners don't mess early know what influencers charge. And to be perfectly honest, it's a wide scope. Right? We we all charge different things. Like I said, I surveyed across the board. Rates were everywhere from five hundred dollars opposed all the way up to five thousand. I can tell you I land sort of somewhere in between that, and it does depend on the scope of work, which is why I said initially, clear directives are incredibly important. Now there's a couple considerations that you can make and a couple ways to make this process a little bit easier. Number one, if you have a budget, if you know that you're going to be able to pay an influencer, one of the first things that you should do is in the subject line paid opportunity or paid partnership. This signals to me that you're not just reaching out for to send me samples or for trade or something like that. It indicates to me very clearly that there is budget for this project, and now we can we can come to the table with some sort of negotiation when asked, if, on preference of an initial budget stated, seventy five percent of the influencers responded that they would prefer an initial budget to be stated. Additionally, most people, when an initial budget is stated, if it were below where the budget should be for them or what their rates normally are, they said they would come back to the table and start negotiations. So it's always a place for conversation, but I think it's clear and it just streamlines if you say, hey, this is a paid opportunity because a lot of times what happens is the winery's email or the partner's email, and they say, hey, we'd love to do this. And they're nowhere in the email does it stay that we have a budget for this? And so there's an additional email that has to happen saying, Do you have budget? What is it? And so it's a good way to stream. Seventy five percent also, of the influencers I surveyed also have rate sheets. So another easy thing to ask is do you have a rate sheet or a rate card as long as, as well as a media kit and this will give you insight into, as Kristen just said, your target consumer and demographic. These should be early things that you guys that information that you're collecting in order to figure out whether this is going to be a good investment for you. And most of us have that. I have a media kit I'll never send a rate shit sheet, but I will give it a shit. Great. Ross you a fantastic start. But I will send you, a sort of ball garbage. They're a garbage. Yeah. I'll send you a sort of ball But I I'm I'm interested in scope of work first and foremost. And, you know, the rates can change. And I will also say that for me, I want to do this for the right price for you. I don't wanna gouge people. I just wanna make sure that my expectations, your expectations are all aligned together. And a lot of times what can happen is I can bundle things together. So my pricing for Instagram stories together with a couple of reals can actually bring that total price down. So if I were to send you a rate sheet that said, one real three thousand dollars. Instagram story is fifteen hundred dollars. If we do that together over the course of a long period of time, because I know that's what you want, I can start to maneuver pricing in a different way. Channels and activation types. Yeah. This goes back to, you know, knowing exactly what you want out of this. All of our channels perform differ differently. TikTok does different things. I mean, I get asked all the time. Do you prefer TikTok over Instagram? Do they do different things? They absolutely do. They They reach different audiences, and the media kits should tell that. And for Kristen, I know you generally have a preference. Yeah. I mean, we we do and we don't. I think that each one should know probably the platforms that your influencer and you're about to reach out to is on. The one thing I always like to tell people is we as wineries are very highly regulated because we are alcohol, particularly in the US. It's a little different globally. But there's things that we just cannot do. We cannot say we cannot tag. We cannot even show a bike because that's encouraging, drinking while riding a bike. So there's little I have no idea. It's really fun. So there's this very long list of rules that the wine and alcohol beverage companies cannot do on Instagram. Do people break art social media? People break the rules all the time, just don't get caught. One of those things is actually alcohol brands aren't actually allowed to be on TikTok right now. They're figuring that out, but guess who are? Influencers. And so there's opportunities to also have influencers create content in places. We legally cannot. They can also point people to retailers. They can also, like, highlight different things. They can say different things. They can perform content in a way that we are not allowed to as winery. So I think, like, yes, no, the platform, knowing your consumer is the way to know probably what platform you're gonna gravitate towards, and that the goal will also tell you that because the type of content you might be creating. Amanda might say, actually that's content that would be way better for TikTok. Instagram content is more better in this format. So you gotta think about more better. It's great. Yeah. But yeah. And so and I know you went into the add ons and just just think about the opportunities that influencers can do and say things that wineries are not allowed. That's right. And there's also different activation types. I think we all think of, like, kind of what I'm doing right here in this, this video screenshot of a video. Which is the, you know, a very common video that I do. Me face to camera with a couple bottles of wine. And I'm talking about wine in some capacity that is, this particular video, is a video that I did with the Napa Valley Vintners to promote, an, an event that they were doing. And the video was really just about, you know, should you age your wines and it lent itself to the topic that they were talking about. But these are not the only types of videos and activations that you can be doing with influencers. Events are a great way to work with influencers, both paid and just event go like, going or being invited to events. I'll be chasing here. So I'll talk about the, like, Lambrusco did an amazing job this past year at bringing influencers and media together for a great activation that was on the Eiffel Tower. It was very over the top. Very Instagram worthy and an awesome way to work with the region and be shown exactly how those wines can work in these settings. And so for me, it was a great takeaway not only from a learning experience, but it was also a value add for my consumer, for my followers. Who are watching along the way to get to see how Lambrusco can actually play in a Michelin starred restaurant on the Eiffel Tower. Another big thing that I'm I'm doing right now are itinerary videos. So again, if you're doing press trips or press, or trip activations, another great way to capture content as well. And then last, of course, is organic versus contracted. So not everything has to be paved. And a lot of times influencer, I'm five foot one, and it's very short back here as I'm on my feet trying not to die. Organic content versus contracted. Obviously, there are some ways, that we can work together that don't require getting paid. One of which is trade. The other is just sometimes I really like a bottle of mask in, and sometimes it ends up in a TikTok video that does really, really well. And when that happens, an amazing thing for me is when the winemaker reaches out and says, Hey, thank you. That was really cool that you did that. I really appreciate it. So being on the listening side of things and being aware when your content is being posted organically, and just kind of leaning into that thank you economy of like, hey, I know that you did this. I did ask you to do this, but I really appreciate it. It goes a long way. I've had the other side of that side of the spectrum happen where I think he was not done. And I I felt honestly a little slighted. I think, you know, for me, it was, like, I I know you didn't ask for it, but I know you were aware of it, and I know that you benefited from it. I think you would have been nice. I agree. The one thing that's where I kind of go back, I was asked a question the other day, like, where do I start with this specifically influencer marketing of, like, who to work with? I'm, like, you should probably be paying attention to who maybe is organically posting about you. That's a really good place to start. And someone was like, have you do that? I'm like, it's called community management. Like, you should be managing your tags. Like, who's tagging you? Who's talking about you? You can do that in app. You don't need a fancy listening software to do it. It's just paying attention to your social channel and who's tagging you. And if you don't know who it is, maybe look at their profile. We've actually organically come across a lot of influencer partners this way that I'm like, oh, you look we actually came across a few celebrity partners this way. And I just jokingly was like, do you want me to send you, like, a case every other month? And, because I really appreciate how much, you know, La Crima you're showing everywhere. And she was like, that's hilarious. Yeah. That'd be great. And, if I wasn't listening and paying attention and also engaging with her content when she did post, as the brand Leclima, which you can absolutely do. I think it would have been a waste of that free content. And it'd be like taking out a print ad and then going line every issue that was ever printed and throwing them all in trash. Like, why wouldn't you want to spread the joy around? You know? Like, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. It's free promotional content. So take advantage of it. I know it's it's hard to say thank you. Yeah. And it's hard, I think, in the in our digital world, right, we get caught up in this idea that we're not real people. I mean, you look at the comments on any of my my videos, and it seems like maybe I'm not a real person because they're talking about me, like, I'm not there. But, we are real people. We're all real people. And I think, you know, relationship building, at an entry level, even, you know, on the platform outside the platform, form. I mean, the whole reason that I even talked about masking and TikTok video was because I had a relationship professional one with Dan Batosky. And I he supported me over the years, and he, you know, he helped each other. And I think these are things that go a really long way in a world that is very digital. That personal relationship and that professional relationship, can be very meaningful to influencers who are considering posting about different things that are unpaid. They're gonna be the first people that you they think of when they're looking to do content. I always tell my team, if you're kind to people on their way, like, when they're starting out, they're going to remember you when they get there and when they're on their way up. And so everyone wants, like, Amanda now. But, like, she does remember the people that supported her when she initially made the jump to do this full time. And I think that's really important. Christian Ritezel is one of those people. That's why we're up here together. We actually really like each other. And we've been working together for years when she was not doing this full time. But, yeah, so the next thing is you do vet your partner. This is actually the number one area I get the most question. I think it's the number one area that people don't do their due diligence in, quite honestly. And so this one is the one that will, like, get me a little fired up is, when you don't do your research. And so influence or types. Amanda has a very clear point of view. I would consider her kind of a wine and lifestyle and the kind of tourism. There's a lot of categories you cover, but it's very focused in wine. I work with a lot of lifestyle influencers that are very much more about among lifestyle or, you know, a, we do a lot of environmental work at Jackson Family Wine. So we work with a lot of, like, climate activists, that are influencers And so we do partner in a lot of different ways. But, like, know the influencer type you wanna work with. If you're just trying to reach, you know, thirty something single women who are in, you know, strong business roles that live in the Metropolitan area, Guess what? There's probably influencers out there for you. There's a lot of influencers, there's a lot of accounts. And so you can always find it. So identifying the goal is kind of part of that finding the type. Like, what is this campaign? And if this campaign is not really for an audience that just wants to know about wine. It's more about like, okay, I wanna partner with someone that is really into horseback or horse racing because Lacoma is the official IO in Kentucky, Kentucky. We should find probably not wine centric influencers for that. So we went out and found, like, horse racing enthusiast influencers. And we're like, hey, it's the official line of the derby, and they promoted it for us. It tapped a completely new audience for us, which was part of the reason why we took on the sponsorship. And it made sense to the influencer. They're like, oh, yeah. It totally makes sense. It's absolutely on track with, like, what my audience is looking for. In fact, they're probably gonna be excited because they don't normally hear from, what, about wine for me. So think about that. And then kind of those niche. I kinda went into the niche, like, the horse racing, the, like, you know, beauty, whatever they are. Like, those niche audiences have to be your product has to fit with it and makes sense. Otherwise, it's gonna feel very paid and very forced and very awkward. And your performance on that, partnership usually is disappointing across the board for both us and them. So well, and we're always we're vetting our partners as well as influencers. Right? So as much as they're trying to identify whether it's a good fit for them. I'm trying to identify whether it's a good fit for me. And so one of the things that I love to to get is a sample first. I will never work with a winery that I don't have a previous relationship with in some capacity. So, if one We will be sending samples. Yeah. So It's very hard to get away from sending at least one bottle. Yeah. And I, you know, I think for me, one of the things that I love to see, and I know other influencers feel the same way is getting samples packaged in the way that the consumer would. So do I mean, I I know it's a lot easier to send it's a lot easier to send samples, all traditional media, right, in a box. But it doesn't give me a really clear idea of who you guys are. Don't I don't know what this brand stands for. I don't know what the my followers are gonna get if they decide to buy this wine. I don't know what that's gonna look like for them. And for me, it it really is a tell. So getting packaging that's a little bit more in line with a customer would receive is great. Also, you know, for you guys, I know, analyzing followers and content performance and audience behavior, this is one thing that I tell people all the time. Make sure you're looking at, and I know you guys do this. Make sure you're looking at more than just the followers and the likes. Dig in. Yeah. Dig into us. And that's where some you can ask for that. I will say, like, typically we do have to because I don't have the analytics behind that influences door. But do not base your partnership just on followers. Followers in a lot of ways, even for a brand, has become very much a vanity metrics. It, like, you people love having a million followers, but if you do not produce content and keep that audience engaged, it's the way the algorithm works. Like, your content just stop showing up. So I've had people come to me and they're like, I have eight hundred thousand followers. You should partner with me. I look at their I can just organically look at their engagement. And I'm like, you're getting less than a hundred likes on your content. So you may have almost a million followers, but very few people are actually engaging with you and your content. And then we're like, we're good. But go a layer deep. The followers should never be the only thing you look at, when bedding an influencer. Actually, one of the things I love to do is, actually look at the comments section of posts that we feel like are this is content. We're probably gonna be asking this person to partner with us on. We like it. We like the aesthetic. We know it's a fit. She's done stuff like this before. Okay. And then you look at the comments, and they're like, either very odd all over the place. Absolutely not about the product she is trying to push forward. It's much more about her shoes or the background and things like that. And you're like, oh, well, your audience seems to really be more about you and not all these products you're trying to push. So once again, I don't know if this is really gonna be a good fit for us, but comments can be very telling. I think there's a lot of people in here that have probably seen an article on social media, and they just go directly to the comment section just because they're like, let's see what craziness is abrupting here. And, it can be very telling of, like, not the article necessary that is written, but, like, the actual audience. And when I see an audience flip out at content, it's the first one I'm, like, you know, magazine or anything. I'm, like, clearly not your audience. Like, you wrote an article that was, like, hitting in a weird way. So, I think that you have to kind of, you just dig in. That ain't is, like, a little bit of, like, Google stocking. You're just kinda, like, trying to find out as much as you can before you reach out. And then once you do reach out, as I mentioned earlier, Clear directives are huge. So in addition to being clear about whether there's budget, also letting us know, you know, what it is you actually want. Do you want this, like I said, on Instagram? Do you want this to do you want this content to be to have usage rights? Do you want to white list this and use it for ads? Those are really important things. And then ABCD alignment on brand and campaign deliverables. This is sort of a similar thing. This is your sort of contact contract negotiation round. So this is where you should know, one, like I said, usage, going back to what are your goals? Is where is this content living? Is it going to live on the influencers' platform? Is it living on your platform? Is it living on both? Are you going to use this for paid spend? All of those things cost different money and require different contracts? Contract negotiation is one of those things that can come from either direction. For me, rounds of edits are really important. So I will, you know, you can always request more. Those are all things that you should be aligning on in those early moments. And then we move on to once we have made a match, you found your person. You swiped right. Now we're working together, and we're gonna collaborate for a mutually successful partnership. So how do we do that? Collaboration considerations. Number one, Just give me one person, one person to talk to. Or two, choose fine. But I want a point person from start to finish who I can clearly communicate with about everything, and that's really, really helped full. I think, that that person should be your go to person for any questions. They should also be providing a very clear brief with guidelines. One of the best briefs I got was recently I'm gonna see if I I can't I I'll send it to you if anybody's interest interested in seeing it later. But it was great. It was just really clear as far as, like, all the directives, the key takeaways, they gave examples of content that they had seen previously that they wanted their content to be more in, in line with. And then it also gave me some messaging points. It didn't give me a script. But it gave me messaging points that they wanted to see within there as well as any technical data that I would need to include in the actual video. So a clear brief is huge. Aligning line go ahead. Well, let's say one thing with that is, like, I tell people, don't don't write a script unless you're asked. Because you're partnering with this person because you like their content. And then also, key messages absolutely include your key messages that you want this person to hit on and what a call to action is if you do have one. Yes. Be that. Click the website, use the promo code, you know, buy these tickets, you know, like us or like the brand, whatever it is, just make sure that's in there. But I've been asked to do scripts before. I don't like doing them because I think it looks like it's been scripted. But that being said, like, you absolutely should put your key messaging points in there because you don't wanna be left being like, oh, I just didn't really like the way they said that, or they didn't hit on this point. I'm like, did you provide that point to them? And they're like, no. I'm like, okay. Like, just to I always I think we called it. Like, just set yourself up for success. Like, make sure you both said everything you wanna say. And, yeah, just try not to have it be too much of a back and forth. That's why having a lot of this locked up before you even reach out is really important. Briefs have come in all shapes and sizes. Ours is actually a very simple template. It's like a one pager. We actually just fill it in. So it's I will tell you, like, some people are like, oh my god, you have to do a brief, and then you have to do this. I'm like, it's actually not that complicated. It's a word document. And we have just, like, these things that everyone on my TR team just fills out when they send it out to, like, a mass audience, to see if these people wanna work with this. Mass being, like, you know, six people. That time. I have so there I'm happy to send a an example of a brief, but just on this brief where things like project project title, the goal deliverables, IE one video, the title, general title of the video, how long they want that video to be, the format in which they want that video shot. So in most cases, that's gonna be your nine by team for iPhone. Whether they want, audio included, a lot of times if you're talking about content that's gonna be used for white listing or for ad purposes, you want license free music, so make that clear in, in your brief, whether that's a thing. And then where they want those files to be delivered, whether that's, you know, providing a Google, Dropbox Dropbox or Google Drive. It should also say we're gonna be posting this, your key messaging, as I mentioned, as well as any of the, the marketing points that you want us to hit. And then let us do our thing. Allow for free to freedom. I mean, you hired us for a reason. You clearly, something resonated. Let me do my thing. I, at this point, I have everything that I've needed because you gave it to me. Thank you very much. And now I get to take it from here with all of those guidelines intact. As I said, I allow for one round of edits with my content, which is really just to allow for anything that's, messing messaging that's incorrect or anything legal. So allowing for that creative freedom is huge. And then cultivating your relationship, making sure that that relationship continues, as you maintain. And I think stay true to your point of view is for both sides. Right? Like, just make sure this is on brand for you when I look at it. It's like, does this influencer? Does this make sense for this brand? Sometimes it's a yes, sometimes to know I have a lot of wineries I get to work with. I feel like we have a probably a wine for every consumer out there. Make sure that influencer fits with that brand. And it's someone you want representing your brand because they do become like Peter talked about brand ambassadors yesterday. He talked he did not talk about this, but like influencers somewhat can become brand ambassadors for you. We've done long term contracts with them. Right now, we're working with a few for your wine store, which is this is one unboxing post, but we work with them on a yearly contract because we want constant con content being created on our behalf. And it says hashtag your wine store investor. So do you think about long term contracts? It also is fun for the influencer because then they have that income that they know they can rely on long term. So I know they've always appreciated that. Yep. And then leverage content. I mean, this is really something I think is is important I touched on earlier, but, be involved in that community, monitor the comments, just because you have an influencer building content for you. It doesn't mean they become your customer service rep. Sometimes you as the brand actually wanna be in there answering the questions that people are posing or sending the answers to the influencer if it's something like, oh, are you guys in Rhode Island? Like, pretty sure Amanda might not know that, but maybe we are. So I always make sure that we're really on top of that. And then reshare, repurpose, you know, track it constantly, the lifetime value of content is just comes in waves. Right? Like, you did a collaboration, and then suddenly six months later, it's like taking off again. And you have no idea why it's all about the algorithm. But suddenly that topic became very topical again and engaged with again. And so make sure you're always kind of tracking the life cycle of your content. And then I say, I do I do report out things. I'm a data person. I'm absolutely asked to report out the success or a non success of a influencer marketing campaign. And a lot of that has to do with, like, engagement rates and audience type and things like that. But I send those out and people are like, it's amazing. And they love to see it. So, be proud of the campaigns you're building and share the results because that's how particularly I get questions of, like, I can't get my company or I can't get my brand bought into an influencer marketing program. Just try to get them to let you do one, then just make sure you're sharing that out just like you would any type of media. Right? Like, a great ad or a great headline in the New York Times. Like, be proud of that content. Honestly, it's it's usually more fun than some of the content we'd send out. So and then they start following people But, yeah, I think that it just it all comes down to those kind of steps that we walked you through. And it's it's not rocket science. I just think there has to be a formula to something. And if you go with it, don't over complicate it. Doesn't have to be a thirty page PowerPoint per or thirty deck PowerPoint presentation. Like I said, word doc, you know, we're a relatively large company. And, yes, our scope of works are worth documents under one pages. Yeah. This is leveraging the content is probably the step that I think gets lost and forgotten about the most on my end, as Kristen said, a lot of times people are looking for the products that I am talking about, and I can't tell you how many times I've gone into partnerships saying, hey, make sure that when this goes live, there's a place for people to figure out how to buy this product. And Absolutely. Too many times. We run into a situation where there is no pathway to find this product or purchase this product, and it's it's a problem. And it makes me look bad. Right. And, you know, the the comment moderate monitoring is huge, but also, one place that I have seen people get burned on is not including in their contracts, the metrics reporting. This is sort of a a thing that most people are totally fine sharing, but you will find every now and then an influencer who says, nope. Those are proprietary. I'm not releasing that information. Get that in your contract. Make sure that's in there. Metrics reporting specifically, we wanna see we wanna see everything. We wanna see the reach. We wanna see the impressions, shares, saves. We wanna see screenshots of that, and we want it within one week of posting. This is very standard stuff. Do not forget to include this in, in your contracts. It's huge. I'm just doing a time check because I I definitely like to put questions, but These are our key takeaways. As you see, a lot of slides that say key takeaways, but, it's really just about there is value in working with influencers. So just think about how that could be part of your marketing plan moving forward or next year. Always talk about developing nuclear strategies is a very important part, especially on both sides of the fence. We believe strongly in betting your partner research is really important. You know, you wouldn't pitch a French wine to the publication that explicitly tells you they only cover Italian wine. Kind of the same with influencers, you can bet them in the same way. Hey. If you think that we're a fit and we don't appear to be a fit, sell me. Let me, like, tell me why you think I'm a fit. I'm open. Yeah. Leverage the content. We just, like, really went dug hard into that. And I think, please do that. I can't stress that enough. And then continue to strengthen the relationship. Like I said, Amanda and I are up here because we actually have a long history together and a relationship. We've worked together in multiple different ways. And, the life cycle of that content is only just getting longer and longer and longer. So stay in touch with people. You know, I think that this is a real this is an industry built on relationships. And I think influencers are just as valuable to you as media, traditional media, you know, bloggers, trade, buy like restaurant buyers. And I think if you start looking at them that way, and that's what I've really trained my team to do, and that's the mindset I approach, used to really start seeing that value unlock so quickly, because it's a partnership. And it's a good one, and it feels good at the end of the day. Yep. Alright. That's a wrap in twenty twenty three wines wine. I always feel like you should be, like, cocktails in here after. If you're like at the end, there should be like a drink. I wanna confetti, Canon. Yeah. Well, thank you everyone. Thank you very much. Listen to the Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, or on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, autify, EmailIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italianline podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, Cheaching.