Ep. 145 Monty Waldin interviews Lorenzo Piccin (San Martino Winery) | Discover Italian Regions: Basilicata

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. With me, Monte Wallen. My guest today is Lorenzo Picino. Lorenzo is winery. It's called San Martino, Saint Martin, and you are in Alianico del Vurtore, on the Vulture mountain of Volcano. Yes. Soil. Growing allianico. Yeah? Yes. Just theianico, hundred percent. So you are you from basilicata? No. I'm from Tuscany, actually. So how did you end up in the other side of Italy, the other end of Italy? Old story. My father's best friend It's from ginsano de lucania, a closer city to Venosa. And, Venosa is one of the towns within the Alibaba. Yes. And, it's been many times during summer, over there having, like, holidays. So, I knew the place quite a lot, and you fall in love with the culture of South Italy. And, so that's not often that we don't often hear that Tuscans doesn't tend to be quite sort of conservative, quite rigid. Yes. Yes. Actually, they don't. I don't wanna generalize my friends in Tuscany, but Well, it's it's not just Tuscany. It's just supposed to be just, in all of Italy. It's supposed to go down to up, you know, from the south to the north. It's not used to have people moving from the north to the south to to have a job, to look for a job. So how old are you? Thirty one. Right. So you made the move south from Tuscany Yes. To work in boiling heat on a volcanic. Yes. Mountain. Oh, wow. Yeah. Because it's, it's in an unknown region because Vasikat has been quite unknown for so many years. And right now, it's everything it's pumping up. And so it's there's these, many people looking for something new, and you look for something different and Vasicata has it. So what attracted you? I mean, did you buy vineyards or did you rent vineyards? No. We bought fourteen hectares, Vineyard. One of the best place, you can find all vineyards in Italy. It's south of Italy, actually. Because of the dry weather and the vines live for a long time. Yes. So is it are your fourteen hectares all in one village in Venice? No. In dividing many many parts of that. But did you do that deliberately to, like, be a little bit burgundian and have these Yes. Yes. Yes. Because it's, the Vulture area as this unique ability to divide, like, one meters to another of these different soil. So you just get on a hills, you look for some place and you find this amazing vineyard or linear, and then you move a hundred meters on the left find something else and you say, wow, that's so different that you cannot just put together and say, okay, it's the same. They have life. So what is the range in altitude of your vineyard of your vineyards? We are from five hundred to almost six hundred. It's very high. Yeah. In Actually, the Voltre is, thirteen hundred meters high. All the yeast part of the Voltre is face, bus, pooja, and actually face the Biconic region. So all the winds call winds that come from the region help to cool the air during the summer. So that's from the adriatic side. Yes. Exactly. That's one side. And but you have other vineyards that face different ways, I imagine. We have, actually, the best part is just that there there are many hills. So you, you cover all the air of three sixty. Yes. Exactly. So when do you normally pick your Alliannequin? From the middle of October. It's one of the last harvest in Italy. Yeah. It's incredible, isn't it? Yes. How how close to Christmas you are and you're still fermenting wine and making wine? Yeah. And it doesn't even the south of it actually. So you it's south of Italy that I have this harvest at the middle of August sometime beginning of September, but we are way late. So you put the main, the capital city of the basilicata region is Potenza. Yes. I wanna mention my mother-in-law. Yes. From and it is one of the coldest city in Italy. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, eight hundred meters. And it's, and it's, it's, like, you know, almost, it's not that far from Africa. Yeah. Exactly. And well, the particular facility is out and whether it's colder, actually, because you are really high, but the middle of, Pinara Padana and Tuscany are much warmer. More Mediterranean. Yeah. Mostly Mediterranean. So, obviously, so you got your vineyards. What we what were your criteria for the vineyards? Was it Old vines, bush vines, old vines. Are they all bush finds? Or as soon as you have someone wires? Alliana. We have Guyo actually because we moved from, alberta lost. We moved from bush finds. Yes. And then, because it is year to to work with them. To manage. Yeah. What are you looking for when you pick? Did you pick on flavor ripeness, sugar ripeness? Or just you're hoping it's all gonna ripen before the No. I'm I'm looking for something elegance, the balance within everything. I don't know too much sugar because high alcohol, it's out of fashion. Yeah. I mean, it not just a fashion. I don't like it. It's, way too much for everything. So it cover all the flavor that you want. So why making you fermenting him stainless steel cement? Both. Stainers steel and wood. And wood? I started acknowledging, Piedmont. So I'm kind of to the old side of, making wine in Piedmont. And I'm looking for, I mean, in the past four year, I was trying to move to long maceration and big dog. So I'm I'm, making some example of, for the first time in with a yanukkudev ultra long maceration, like, sixty, seventy, ninety nine days. That's very long. Yeah. But why are you doing that for softer turning? Soft turning and more elegance, actually, most of the people think that if you wanna have less elegance, you need to extract less and, like, for, like, seven days, ten days, and exact is it's the exactly opposite, extraordinary. But doesn't it does doesn't the doesn't the success of that long maceration depend on you picking everything? Yeah. The right time. Yeah. I mean, like like flavor, right, rather than just numbers. You don't have to push over. I mean, you don't have to have like, over at raisin. Yes. You don't want to. Yes. I have, a machine that does this job, like Oh, perfectly. Yeah. Optical sorting. Do you have that? No. I have the padding, actually, the not the the optical, but the the the just the one first. So I it's in the same machine that works in the vineyards, but you can buy it put in the seller. Okay. What about your main markets? USA, actually. How do I get? Yeah. I know. Maybe you're very modern in Outlook and what you you you know, these I don't know if we can't really generalize, but, you know, you're really looking for that smoothness. Southern Italian reds can be ruises, they can be pretty unforgiving sometimes. And you're looking for that smoothness, so it kind of makes sense that that's the market you're focusing. What's your story when you go? I probably tell about these old vines. I'm a young guy, all the stall, the sort of stuff. What is that helps you connect when you go and meet a bunch of American importers, distributors, or retailers? Something different, something new. I mean, most of the people think about Italy, Southeast, ayan wine, really powerful, strong. Heavy. Yeah, how happy. And Fantastic. Yeah. That's it. Well, the main road was opened by Aetna. Aetna showed the people that south of Italy could be something different. So why didn't you go to Aetna? I said, you got your mountain road. Yeah. Because Aetna is already done. Right. I mean, I want to be something new. So, I mean, in terms of price, you must have looked at that, no, and looked at the prices of vineyards for that. And then, of all today, with a Vulture in Viseti Carter, was there a price advantage too? Well, of course, there was a price advantage too about actually, in the middle of the beginning of the thousand, everyone in Southeast, that was quite cheap. Everything was not So when did you find the Vignas? Mia, for San Martina, was two thousand and eight. My parents moved there in two thousand and four. You parents moved to they were tuscan weren't they? Well, the story of the Vigna, and the winery, it's a little bit like, my father moved there and build our family winery, and as a school. I start, studyingology school in Piedmont, and I wanted to do something with, by myself, because most of the time was, like, a fight in the cellar. You know, you have to father with your idea. His idea and that they were right idea. So I don't you don't have to, I mean, he built a history of the winery in, with the Grefalco and even in multiple channel in scanning before. And but I have to I wanted to try something by myself. So I start doing my own style and people like it. So Does he like does he like your wines? Yeah. What does he say? He say that. Is he a bit grudgeon? Well, that's okay. No. No. I said they're they're really good. Right? Has it made him change his way of making Yes. I mean, I'm the one making wine right now in the yes. I hope you charge him a good fee. Yes. I mean, I took everything all of it. So Okay. So that's good. So happy happy families. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. What about the culture of the South? Obviously, you're, you know, from Tuscany, in terms of, you know, you're growing up there, what the, obviously, studying in Milan, the that you eat? How do you get on with Southern Italian cuisines? Do you find it very heavy? Do you find a refreshing change? Actually, it's a poor cuisine. Sweet. So that doesn't mean bad. It means it's No. No. No. No. No. It's a mission of poverty means there's sort of, peasant traditions of really not throwing anything away and really being creative. Exactly. But, well, you find still, so many people working around their countryside, like, close to Livonia picking up, asparagie. Well, asparagies. Every day. I mean, right now, I'm I'm here, right, in Winona. If I was, in, basilicata in the Volter, I was looking for some, right, as far as to make some pasta. So that's that's mean Did you get some wild mushrooms on the Voleriano? Yeah. You do have it. And you have it still bull? Yes. You have chingale as well. Well, do you have a chestnut? So you can bake flour from that to make pasta. What about, Capariolo? Not so many. Actually, more. Revis pork. Oh, so you have wild pigs as well as bull. Yeah. And what about, and what about, So they shoot birds around there or not. Yeah. Actually, it's you cannot shoot birds, like, Falcon because it's the origin for the FICO. You you find Ficon everywhere. I mean, Federiko Secon, or wrote a book about FICO. So he was he was around in the hundreds, very famous, but ruler of Italy and many other places, very culturally big cultural influence on the south, the Falcon? Yeah. Did you go hunting? No. I don't like hunting. No. Why you don't like the the danger of it or you don't like the booking? Or No. No. I do a lot of working. I mean, I can work for, like Well, as soon as a rake, you know, you know, I really like to run. Well, I mean, my my wife, it's a vet girl, so veterinarian. Yeah. Okay. What is your top bottle core. I mean, did you just make one one, one red, or do you make a I mean, three different red. Go on and explain. Entry level, the Sierra? Seer. Sierra s I I r. S I I r. It's like a sir in English. That actually mean father owner in the local language. So it's an albanian dialect. Okay. Because, many city in Vasicata came from the albania. Which is just across the address. Yes. Exact. And the second one? The second one is albresco. I actually, albresco, by spell Arberish. That mean people coming from Arberish, Banyan people still. And then the third one, it's Kamay, the one you have it, and it's, the selection of the best grape. Okay. So why why are the obsession with the Albania names? Albania name, because they have This really big impact culture in the area. I mean, you find that the Volter area that has three main city, albanian city, Umquito, Barile, and Genestra. They're all albanian. Are they all part of the evil to the DC? Yes. Yes. All of them. And they are all colony from little, the main city, Italian city, like, Mosquito is the colony, albanian colony for Venosa because the people when they move from the albanian region, they didn't know people in the area didn't want to have them closed so that you can stay here, of course, but you have to build your city on another place. So they build, when did they come over? Running from the turkey? So that was in the fifteenth century. Thirteenth century? Yes. Thirteenth century. They've been in there for a long time, but it's not like ghetto wise. I mean, do they they don't have their own schools? No. No. No. They have their own language, actually. I'm sorry. Yes. Yep. They you can find their their writing different. They have their own their own called are really So do you like their their style of cooking as well? The influence, it's all of around the So what are the influences? It's, really, like, fresh vegetables. It's like a big bread pepper, but not spicy. And you fry You fry it? I mean, you you let dry under the sun, then you fry it, and then you broke over the pasta. And Oh, okay. They call it, the, you know, patatina, did you buy on the Yeah. Like, potato crisps. Yeah. Crisps. Yeah. Because I like the the black the red pepper, crisps. Yes. But not spicy. So you can eat them whenever you want. So they're quite salty. You can put salty as well, but they are like more like, sugar taste, but not sugar. Are you seen as quite unusual? I mean, you know, if there's still this not disharmony, but, you know, they they are many people that you are talking about that the names that you've chosen. When you're you're really into their community, I mean, do they know you? Do they know that you're into them? Yeah. I think I'm a Sienna smartly dressed guy from very successful family comes to the south. He's just another one that's just gonna steal our ideas. Or do they say, hey, it's great. They're fine. We gotta get some tuscany. They're starting knowing me. I mean, people working with me over there. And we together from very close in the vineyard. And, we have, like, during the harvest season, we pretty much live together twenty four hours a day. So it's, like, you, you know, your people, and so they they share the culture with you in even if, at the beginning, it was difficult because, you know, you are from the north. They don't know you. And you're quite young. Yeah. Right now, actually, being young has been more like, advantage. Yes. Because, I mean, it's it looks like, my son, So I mean, for the South culture or sun, it's like. First, the first pool. Yeah. Is it a little god? Yeah. Exactly. So, like, come here. Come here. You can nap here. Whatever you want. You wanna come here for lunch for dinner, whatever. And Do you speak dialect with them or not? Well, it's really difficult. At the beginning was like, I have problem with the Fruna. And what what's the Fruna? Oh, yeah. It's, like, foggia. I mean, foggia. Okay. So in Italian, it's foggia, in dialect, it's fruga. And what about the bunch? Italian? I don't remember. Italian got up already in, over there. I don't remember too many difficult. Okay. Fantastic. It's, I love this idea, kind of cross cultural communication, because we don't do enough of that. I don't think globally, and I don't generalize about Italy, but, you know, there are the the south. It's funny how the albanian community that have been there for a long long time. Still, there's a little bit of a a wall between them as immigrants and the locals. And then as you said earlier on, you know, a northern Italian person sees the south in a very different way to how the south seas themselves so that you've got that real. In a way, it's quite stimulating. In a way, it's sometimes a bit frustrating how, the north looks down on the south. I mean, in in England, it's that Greg, where I'm from the south, we think we're superior to people in the north. I'm actually from the north. My heritage from the north. So it is a bit of Russia can we just get on? Yeah. Yeah. So, so it's great that you're, you're smart looking tuscan lads. You've gone down to the south. Thanks. And you're embracing the the culture in every sense. Also just on a logical level in terms of economic I mean, if you got you got workers that you that, you know, you you respect, they're gonna they're gonna do a better job? Yes. Yes. Definitely. Yeah. Cool. I I wanna come down and try, how does this this little these pepper chips go well with your wines? Oh, they go well with everything actually. Right. You can eat whatever you want. Army kind of play that sort of. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's per they're perfect. They're like the I mean, they're maybe they find it like, they have thousand years old. I mean, I don't know from who had this amazing idea of, pepper about their pet. I probably cut someone left them out on the they kind of fried on a hot stove. They're in touch, actually. So they are all of they took it. They took it off from the plant. In touch, they dry under the sun. When they are dry, you can put on with oil and fry them, and then they do just crunch them and eat, and it's like You're smiling. It's a lunchtime. So I think I better let you get some food. I just wanna say thanks today to my guest today, Lorenzo Pecin, from the San Martina winery in the Volterre region of Pasadena famous for its Adianica actually coming in before it's tasting it. Thank you. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.