Ep. 99 Monty Waldin interviews Alessandro Medici (Medici Ermete Winery) | Discover Italian Regions: Emilia-Romagna

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My guest today is Alessandro medici of the Ermette medici winery in Emilio Romania. Alright. Come. Nice to see. Nice to see you. My pleasure. So you look like a very young man to be running a winery. How old are you? Twenty three. And you are the which generation of your family? I'm only a few generation of the family. So give me the generations one by one. Who founded the winery? The winery has founded the my my grand grandfather, Remidio, that has been the first generation. So roughly when was that? In eighteen ninety. Okay. So how did he start? Did he make his own wine and bottle it and sell it in the local wine sure. Absolutely not. In fact, our history is quite, unusual because our history start, started in, eighteen ninety. How I told you, Presley, and, my grand, grand grandfather remedro, and had the four Austria in, English, right strands. Well, hostel. Yeah. They're called. Exactly. A hostel meaning like a place we could eat and have something to drink. Exactly. Exactly. And the position of this Austria was quite, particular because was on the VEMilia. VEMilia is the most important and the most historical street of our reason because we are from Regemilia. And Regemilia is in the air of familiar or minor reason. A really famous reason for food and also wine, of course. And the V Emil that is a street Amelia is one of the most important street because at that time in eighteen ninety, but also today, many traders passed from that street and the many traders stopped to our Austria to drink and to eat something. So our four Austria were very popular at that time. So remedio, the first generation of the family, and decided to start a small production of Lambrusco in our area just to supply his restaurants. Did he buy land? Did he have his own vineyard? Was he buying grapes? No. For the first production, he bought a small just for the first production. Okay. But it was, I think, a true free actors no more because the production was really, really small just to supply the the Australia. And my grand grandfather Ermita, the man who is dedicated the the company started to launch the business. So, and it started to produce more quantitative of Lambrisco. But at that time, how you, right, asked me, the wineries in our area didn't produce Lambrisco just both the the grapes or the wines from small farmers or just from cooperatives. So, started to to bottle a good quantity of Lambrusco, not just to supply our stereo, but also to sell our wines, to other restaurants, for example. And my grandfather, Georgia, in nineteen sixteen, started to export our Lambrisco outside of Italy. And we can say that Lambrisco, together with Cantin, has been one of the first, maybe the first wine to be exported outside of Italy. And at the time in, I'm speaking about nineteen, in the seventeenth, nineteen, eighteen, was, was was really popular, above all in the states, in fact, if you you see, one list from, for example, a restaurants of New York. In nineteen seventy five, you can see a champagne, bordeaux, burgundy, and also Lambrusco, because it was very cool, and it was an alternative to the champagne because, of course, it's not, Nebraska is not a champagne, but is a sparkling wine, more fresh, more simple, and so it was an alternative. At the time, it was very cool. In fact, I always tell a story that, in a biography of James Bondy in nineteen seventy three, is that toward the champagne Jay's bond order, Alambrusco, that today is quite unbelievable to think that, but at the time, Lambrusco was really popular. Well, there are a lot of Italians in New York as well that we're also drinking Lambrusco. Yes. Yeah. So that was so that was a a pretty good market. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. One times, but also today is a great market. But to arrive today, we made a lot of work because, it's important to say that, in, nineteen eighty five, there were two big companies from our area that decided to prefer the quantity to the quality of the production of Lambroscope. And one of these two big company arrived to import it in the states, eleven million cases in one year of Lambroscope. The number is raised but the problem is that the product, the wine was bad quality. It was really sweet. The yields in the inconvenience were really, really high. And so the product was, of course, a bad quality. You know, the name the Italian Cola is exactly from that period. And my father entered in the company in in nineteen eighty eight. What's your father called? Alberto. Alberto is the name of my father. So he's fourth generation. Four generation. Exactly. The problem what is that now I entered in the company and the company is great because the business is good. But in the nineteen eighty eight, when my father entered in the company, the situation was really bad because the image of Lambrusco was absolutely destroyed. And wineries from our area produced really bad, Lambrusco because the wineries hadn't the vineyards, so they just bought grapes or wines. And my father decided to change this thing. So my father decided to buy a land in our area in Regia, that is called the where you where you've been, I think, five months ago. Okay. So your father was you're talking about your father who Yes. Alberto. Yeah. Alberto. So your father started to state bottling. So he wanted full control. Exactly. A little bit like his great grandfather did, which is you know where the grapes are coming from, you're bottling it, and then you're sending it yourself. Absolutely. And your great grandfather face, his great grandfather's case directly to somebody who comes into the Austia. Exactly. And then you'll file that a case to a restaurant or a an importer. Exactly. Exactly. That's the point. And in fact, in nineteen ninety three, concerto, our top of Lambrisco, our, let me say flagship wine. It was born from away said previously from, own vineyards, and concerto has been, that is the name of Lambrusco. Contractor has been the first dry landbrusco to be produced from vineyards of our winery, but in general has been the first dry landbrusco to be produced in Amelia. Area. So just to be clear Yes. When we're talking about we're talking about sparkling wine. Yes. Yes. Now most people think that sparkling wine is either sometimes rose. Yes. But it's mainly white. It's mainly a clear wine. Yes. Is Lambrisco like that? We're we're talking about red wine. A fish a red wine. A a freeze red wine. That that's the point. And that's quite unusual, of course, how you said, because yes, when people think about a sparkling mind, of course, white, and today, maybe some people think also about a rosier. Matlombrusco is a completely different wine because this red is sparkling is, in general, it's produced by sharma method, but also with the, traditional method and also with the ancestral method. So Lambrusco is, a word. Okay. And the difference from an masparvin and Lambrusco. Of course, it's the color. Yes. That's right. But also the bubbles is more thin than, for example, a champagne where the the bubble is more aggressive, but in a good way, of course, but is a difference. And the quality of Lambrusco is that has three particular characteristic. One is the acidity. One is the level of sugars, and this one is in common with all the sparkling wines. But the third thing is the level of ten is that is quite unusual for a sparkling wine. In fact, our Lambrusco, the concerto has a good level of acidity as a good level of sugars because it's important in a Lambrusco have a good level of sugars that, of course, have not to be so high. If not, it's not a a good drink, drinkable Lambrusco, but it's important having a a nice level of sugars and also a level of tannin that is typical from the the grape of lambrusco. You know, lambrusco is a great word of grapes inside because from the area where we are, we are in Regemilia. For example, we have a particular Lambrusco. If you drink Columbus from Modena, that is really close to Regemilia, you have other different Lambrusco. So what are the main Lambrusco variety you're working with? Because as you say there's more them more than just well, it's not like chardonnay, where there's chardonnay and chardonnay and chardonnay seven year murder. Yeah. Lambrusco, we're talking about a family of vines rather than that particular one. So which of the varieties that you work with mainly? Okay. Yes. Lambrusco is called Labrusco Salino. Umina because the size of the grape, remember, a small salami. Okay. The bunch the bunch looks like it's like a salami sausage. Exactly. Exactly. But, you know, there are many type of varieties of Ramusco for example, Lambrusco de Silvera, Lambrusco, Grasparosa. And, to make it clear, Lambrusco is produced in free city, big city. One is Modana, one is Marma. In Parma, we have Lambrusco that have a high level of sugars and, low level of acidity. They're really sweet tasting wines. In Modena, we have lambbrusco that, have, a nice, a great acidity and, low level of sugars. In Regemilia with salaminovariety, we have Lambrusco that are absolutely more balanced. That's not a it's not a best, it's not a best, a best, but it's just a characteristic because we have a nice acidity and nice level of sugars and also an important level of tannins. That make the wine more balanced, of course. Do you think that makes it more of a food wine? Yes. It's absolutely a gastronomic wine. So what would you eat with a salamino? Okay. With salamino, you can eat salamino. Of course. You can eat a not sure that's the the perfect combination. The jokes just keep on coming on the screen. Yes. But I've I've I appreciated that because it's a perfect combination. In general, Chakoutaris are unbelievable match with Sanbrisco Salomino. But also for example, pasta fresca. For example, pumpkin tortelli, for me, it's an unbelievable combination because it's, of course, a fat dish because we have the butter. You have the the eggs in the pasta. But pumpkin is, it's also sweet and recall, for example, the sweetest part of the Lambrusco salamino, and the acidity of the wine can cut the the the the fat the fat of the dish. So I think it could be a nice combination, but also with fish, with fat fish, for example, eels, you know. Eels. Exactly. G grilled eel. That is a that is a fat fish, you know. And, Lambrusco Salamino, we make many experiments. It could be a a great combination. Yes. Yeah. It's funny. And eel looks a bit like a salamino as well, doesn't it? Yeah. Okay. Okay? That's the the food side. What about when how difficult is it for you to get past people's perception that Lambrisco is always sweet. Yes. And it's always cheap. Yes. Or low budget or low price. So whatever you wanna call it, it's it's a wine that Voci should self are nothing, and it will taste really, really sweet and almost sickly. Yes. My father passed his entire life to try to fight this bad image of Lamrusco. Yes. It has been really difficult to to start and to try to change the perspective of this wine. And, also today, we have many people that can recognize a good Lamrusco, but also at the same time, many people that can understand that Lambrusco can be also dry and not just sweet. So, of course, this is the goal of my life because I'm here for that. But we made a lot of work. At the moment, we are in seventy countries in the world, but in for example, United States or, Canada or, UK, we had to do a lot, a lot of work, and my father have to be have to go to these to these countries for a lot of years and, has been a really, really hard. You have to think that we started to export dry land brusco in nineteen ninety four. And just in and only in two thousand and ten, eleven, we saw the first results because now that is two thousand and seventeen, we can see our wines in important wine list, but it's just in the last seven eight years that we saw the first result us. And that is quite crazy because we have been one of the first winery in Italy to export our wines outside of Italy, but you know that there are many wineries that are more famous than us. And that because Zambosco had a really bad image. So we didn't start from zero. We started from minus ten. So we had to write to zero, and then we have to, to create the image of our company. But we export our one outside of Italy with great importer, like unbelievable brands, Antinario La Grini, but Antinario La Grini now are, you know, one of the famous wineries. Medi Charmeta, yes, there are some people or, people that are in wine business that maybe, you know, something about the medici and, you know, that medici is maybe one of the most important winery in the immediate, Romania. But not every people that is in the wine business, no medici. That's because Lambusco had a really, really bad image was the Italian cola. And now maybe the the times are changing. And, of course, we have to do a lot of work yet, but, many things have been made. So we are happy at the moment. At the moment, we live in a culture where, social media's coming more and more important. And everybody's talking about millennials. Yeah. Do you think Lambriscoe in general and Medishi Edmette, Lambriscoe, in particular, can make something of the sort of obsession we have with social media and the influence of sommeliers particularly in America? Yes. Absolutely. But also you need it. I was in Milan three days ago, and I've been in a wine bar, very famous. Two weeks ago, we introduced a new wine that is called fermento, that is an ancestral method as a a nice packaging has a nasal label and Is it a bit cloudy in the bottle? Exactly. A little bit of is it a red Lambrisco? Yes. It's a red Lambrisco. It's, not so red because it's a sorbara. So it's a sort of Rosay wine because sorbara is one of the of lambrosco, and the color is not so red like lasalomino. And it's a it's a millennial wine. I wear in in this wine bar and many guys also of my age saw the bottle, saw the color, and everybody asked me what is that product What is that wine? I wanna taste. They tasted the wine and everybody said, wow. I never tasted something like that because Lambrusco is absolutely different from the other wines. And I am absolutely sure that people that don't know the history of Lambrusco and just stayed for the first time our Lambrusco have to impress, of course. But do you think there's a danger that with this trend for, obviously, lights or lighter sparkling wine like prosecco, and then the Rosay version, which has also become very fashionable? Is there a danger that all those wonderful red Lambrisco wines will then morph into sort of pink Rosay wines and will lose something. We'll gain something by Yes. By selling more quotes, Lambrisco, but we'll lose the real traditional style, which is the red star, isn't it? Yes. I can answer out your question because Well, then you do you have to leave. I'm afraid. It's it's a it's a quite difficult to answer to your question. I think that Lambusco is another thing. When you drink Lambusco, you have to think that it's another wine. Okay? And it's what we we have to say, like, manager meta and like Lambrusco producer to every customer. Lambbrusco is different wine. We don't have, competitors. Okay. That's a good thing. Okay. In reality, we have a lot of competitors. But for our mind, we we haven't competitors. It's not a prosseco. It's not a champagne. It's not a French a quarta. It's not a train to dog. It's a different wine. It's a word. Okay. And we have to export and also to sell in Italy, but we have to to tell to the people that Lambusco is another thing. Okay. So we have we haven't looked trans of, sparkling wine. We haven't looked anything. Today, I was in a meeting about Japan. Okay. For the sparkling wines, Japan is the the fifth market in in Asia, I think. For us, it's completely different. We produce Lambrusco. And for us, it's our first market in the world, not in Asia, in the world because we produce Lambrusco. We don't produce prosaic or champagne. For us, it's completely different. So it's another word. It's another wine. But altogether, how large the estate. How many vineyards do you have? What many hectares do you have? Today, we have seventy five hectares. So is that big or small? We are considered quite big. For Lambroosco. No. For okay. For Lamrosco, we are, medium size. In general, for Italian wine, we are considered quite big. For Lambrusco, we are not considered so big because we have important groups, for example, big cooperatives that produce a lot, a lot of Lambrusco. Today, we produce eight hundred thousand bottles. So for a landscape producer is, let me say a medium size and for seventy five actors, but the important thing is that we produce a lot of wines. So every wines that we produce is not a big production. It's a small production. What but we produce a lot of different type of Lambrusco. So a lot of styles of Lambrusch with the different brands. Exactly. Coherent coherent ladder of quality throughout your range. Yeah? So you have you have seventy five hectares of vineyards. Yeah. And how many brands do you have altogether in terms of? Okay. It's it's quite difficult. I think more or less fifteen wines. Okay. Fifteen, sixteen wines. So you're saying that you got seventy five hectares and roughly fifteen labels that you Yes. Fifteen labels. Okay. So that makes that's so you're basically trying to make smaller lots of individual wines. Exactly. So that people can see the differences between the different grape varieties and maybe the different terrace, because you have vineyards in is it four areas? You have to Four areas. Exactly. What a memory? Yes. We have four states. One is the biggest one that is called La rampada where we produce, for example, Lambusco, on charter, a solo. It are our top, Lambrusco. And also we have, another state that is called, where from the, where we have five types of Lambrusco. But every hour wise is a crew. It's not a blend of vineyards. It's a crew. And also we have Lamrusco that are blend and maybe not just a single vineyard, but it's a blend from a single area. Okay? So we can speak about a crew of Lamrusco. So all of your wines, whichever bottle you buy will come from eight one place, at one village or one vineyard site. Exactly. I mean, how far away are your vineyards? Is it fifteen kilometers between the twenty? Yes. Yes. Fifteen kilometers in total. Absolutely. Tell me a little bit. You know very well. No. I just I just pulled that figure out at the end. So tell me a little bit about, you're doing a bit of work with organics on one of your vineyards. Yes. So why why are you doing that and how difficult is it? It's a really, really difficult to organize seventy five actors of vineyards in a organic way. We decided two years ago to make the the the important passage between the normal agriculture, the conventional agriculture to organic agriculture. This has been an important choice. I wasn't completely agree because I preferred to make organic agriculture just in one state to try if this choice was good or not. But my grandfather decided to make organic agriculture in all seventy five does of our production. That's very unusual. Normally, it's the grandfather that absolutely does not want to hear anything about organic. That's true. That's true. And it's either the son or the grandson, which would be you in your case who said, no, come on, we can't keep on carrying on doing, the conventional way we have to do organic. So so why would he so into the organic thing? The important thing to say is that the agriculture that we made until two years ago, it was not so different from the organic agriculture. The the first important thing. For me, that I'm the young guys that is entered now, maybe people can think, okay, this guy is twenty three entering the company. He wants, destroy the world, make everything inorganic. That's not the the the good point. So this is to answer to your question before that is quite unusual that is grandfather and not the grandson to make this choice. But I I lived in Kelvin for three years for the for the university. And I saw also big producers, for example, Charetto that, is making organic wines. It's called Blanger, that is really famous and popular there in Italy and those outside of Italy. And the production is about out seven hundred thousand bottles of Blanger all in organic. That's Arnais, isn't it? Arnais, exactly the variety. In important, Arnais, Blanger, because I think that it has been the pioneer of Arnais in the world. And I saw and I touch with my the difficult time to have a biological agriculture for a so, important extension of vineyards. And so it's really, really difficult to organize seventy five vectors. It's possible by of course, it depends from the climatic conditions. Yes. Because, you know, we are in the media. We have a lot of views, for example, Perronaspora and, for the humidity. And it's not easy to organize seventy five hectares for many reasons in our area. Yeah. It's a bet. But isn't the thing about Chirito? The fact that they were very well organized in terms of people and also machinery because if you're gonna stop using, say, herbicides or weed killers, you need to have the right machinery. Have you had a face a big adjustment in the machinery that you're using in your vineyards. The machine that we bought for organic are quite similar to Charetto Machine. The important thing I saw in these two years, if to buy machine really light. I wanna go To avoid compacting the soil. Exactly. Because, before of these two years, we used the the really heavy machine. Our agronomist told to us, if you wanna do organic, you have to change the the the machine. That's a really important. I saw a good organic organization in charitable winery. Okay. It's not my winery. So I just saw the organization. It's not easy to organize a so big area. I'm speaking about seven hundred a thousand bottle. So it's an important organic agriculture, and it's quite similar to our area. Of course, we are not in the language, and our, vineyards are a flat and not, a bit easier. Yes. Maybe it's it's easier. Yes. But the the climate conditions are quite strange above all in the last two years. And so, yes, it's a bet. I really hope that it could be, good. Okay. I just wanna say thanks to my today, Alejandro medici from the medici Armette winery in Emilio Romagna. Thank you, Amanda. You've in a way, you've been a very lucky guy to inherit, the work that your father, grandfather, and great grandfather have have done in a way that puts a lot more pressure on your shoulders to keep it going. So if everything turns disastrous, particularly with the organics, do come back on the Italian wide podcast. And we can do like a a chat about how to how not to destroy the van worry, but I I have every confidence. I was in your videos recently, and I've been there a couple of times. And, as I said to you when I came, what I liked about your approach is you do it step by step. Yeah. And that's so important for a family winery like yours with such tradition and responsibility and I think you're on the right track. And, I'm so comforted. I love Lambriscoe, and to see a winery of your stature being successful after all that year of struggle, all those years of struggle, and also now to look at the organic root is is really for me. I I just feel so happy about what you're doing now really. Honestly, you know that? I mean, you've seen that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really thrilled about what you're doing. Honestly, it's a region that is so undervalued. Yeah. It's wine. It's food, you know, parmesan, all that is so famous. And the, and the racing cars, world global leaders at Lambrisco for me is like a global brand. It's it's such a winder. I grew up with that when I was in my first wine shop. Italian ninety was on. The football and it was Lambrisco and it just disappeared in the UK, which is where I, I'm from. So I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled to see you and hear about your family story, and, wish you ever success with the organics. Thank you. I want to thank you. Nice fun. Thanks a lot, mate. Thank you. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.